Team of the Six Nations

First topic message reminder :

What else do I need to say? It's a staple. I post mine, you post yours. You know the deal.

Anyway, here we go;

1) Cian Healy(IRE) Engage beast mode. He's been a lynchpin in an incredibly stable Irish scrum and a big carrier. Top class. Honourable mention; Joe Marler.
2) Rory Best (IRE) Tough call between Rory Best and Dylan Hartley. Irelands number 2 has been effective all over the pitch, accurate at lineout time, another one of the scrummaging lynchpins and a breakdown nuisance. Just shades Hartley.
3) David Wilson (ENG) bit of a controversial choice maybe, I was so tempted to put in the whole Irish front row who I think have been a superb unit. But the way Wilson has come in with next to no game time and slotted straight in has really impressed me. We thought he might be a weak link in Round 3, undercooked and unfit. Not a bit of it. Classy showing fro him in a key game for the tournament.
4) Courtney Lawes (ENG) Runs and passes like a centre, and he hits like a steam train. Great player. Easy choice. Honourable mention for Irish Captain Paul O'Connell.
5) Joshua Furno (ITA). The stats show whether this guy plays lock or blindside he is one of the most effective carriers in the tournament, and he's been solid in everything he does. Just shades Launchbury.
6) Peter O'Mahony (IRE). He wears 6, but he plays like a second open side. Ireland really relied on some of the key turnovers he came up with to relieve pressure- real turning points in tight games at times. Tom Wood was also excellent.
7) Sam Warburton (WAL) I've been quietly impressed by the Lions skipper even though I haven't been impressed with Wales. He's been excellent. It just seems like when there is a loose ball anywhere on the pitch, he is down on it. He's at every ruck. He's top class. Chris Henry unlucky to miss out.
8) Louis Picamoles (FRA). Undermined by his coach who singled him out over some petulance in round 3 then for some reason moved him from his best position in Round 5. When he played 8, he showed he's the most effective ball carrying forward in the tournament. At times he drags this mess of a French team forward when they have no idea whats going on.
9) Danny Care (ENG) He's really nailed down his place now, his quick thinking and excellent running game creates so much space for the men outside him as he is such a constant threat, especially when the game breaks up. Clear choice.
10) Jonny Sexton (IRE). Nearly kicked his way out of this with a few misses from the tee but he's the best attacking 10 in this Hemisphere. Four tries was it? And created many more. Owen Farrell has come on in leaps and bounds.
11) Andrew Trimble (IRE). What can you say about this guy? Out of the team for a good long while but he's just worked so incredibly hard on every part of his game and never gave up on playing for Ireland. Man of the match in Round 5, always popping up to clear out a ruck or crash the ball up in midfield. Involved in every part of the game and solid as a rock under the high ball. 3 tries as a side note. George North showed his class today but a bit too late to nail down a spot in this team.
12) Luther Burrell (ENG). For me, the best centre in the tournament, the big find for England and a guy who was totally entitled to be pi$$ed off when he was taken off today. He's at 12 because...
13) Brian O'Driscoll (IRE). I was watching some of the stuff he did against Italy in the week and I don't know that any other centre could have done it, outside of New Zealand anyway. But its deeper than that. He's an icon who makes the guys who take the pitch with him play better. He's retiring at the right time, the body is nearly gone but the vision he has is irreplaceable.
14) Yoann Huget (FRA). Another player who just seems to drag France out of the mire on so many occasions. A consummate predator with and without the ball, just a guy I'm glad to see the back of really because was pretty sure he was going to break our hearts at the end. Leonardo Sarto also shone, bright future for him.
15) Mike Brown (ENG). Everyones talking about BOD- BOD is probably the best NH player of the professional era so thats fair. But Mike Brown is currently the best player in the NH, no doubt. Player of the tournament by a country mile. Should make the shortlist for IRB Player of the year, and possibly win it as well. Early front runner for that because he's head and shoulders ahead of a whole hemisphere right now.

Your right Losty, despite his fantastic Leinster performances he's never really done it consistently on the Int stage.

I wasn't overly impressed with him this 6N tbh but I'm happy to agree to disagree.

I really like Cruden, he's such an attacking threat and Cooper seems to have turned the corner.

ROG even managed to improve Machenaud kicking who was at 100% on saturday...when he never was his club kicker before.

JD team of the 6N is out :

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/26603325

pretty similar to the ones above with a little bit of welsh bias (roberts, north but not warbutton).

whocares wrote:ROG even managed to improve Machenaud kicking who was at 100% on saturday...when he never was his club kicker before.

JD team of the 6N is out :

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/26603325

pretty similar to the ones above with a little bit of welsh bias (roberts, north but not warbutton).

Hmmm. Wings didnt stand out, arguably except for Huget and Trimble. JD seems to have given it to North for running lots of meters at a scottish defense that was a man down to start with. He seems to go with Roberts for similar reasons. (best at running into traffic?) and I am not completely convinced by Heaslip being there either, but thats probably by default seeing as Vunipola only made it to half way, Picamoles didnt have the best time, and Faletau, while looking good for short spells was often invisible.

Heaslip seems to have had a marmite tournament in that I've heard quite a few people criticise him.

I personally thought he was fantastic - the amount of carrying and work he got through at times was mindboggling. I'm beginning to believe this story about him sleeping in an altitude chamber might have some merit.....

Havent watched all Ireland games but at times heaslip looked like a passenger on saturday. I dont like marmite so might explain my point of view
there was not standouts 8 in this tournament as somebody pointed out (maybe Denton was the best of the bunch).

rodders wrote:Heaslip seems to have had a marmite tournament in that I've heard quite a few people criticise him.

I personally thought he was fantastic - the amount of carrying and work he got through at times was mindboggling. I'm beginning to believe this story about him sleeping in an altitude chamber might have some merit.....

Oh I think he had got his act together no doubt. He has had some lean years after looking very good when he first appeared. He is working hard and is doing some good stuff, but I just dont think he is always that effective or scary in the way that, say, BV or picamoles can be. Put another way, vs France he was doing a lot of carrying but rarely seemed to actually make any yards.

Agree about the lack of yardage - he's not as explosive as he once was but the sheer volume of carrying saved our bacon more than once I feel, and kept the quick game we are trying to play going. At times he was carrying 2 or 3 times in as many phases.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

theslosty wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:10. Farrell - slightly controversial but Sexton not fully firing

Sexton's final kicking percentage was 80% - not as bad as some would make out.
Farrell was 83%.

Considering Sexton's clear superiority ball in hand, I'd agree with you - a controversial choice indeed.

I didn't mean kicking when I said not firing, I just think he looked a little off at times. He had a poor game against us.

Farrell by contrast played probably the best he's ever played for England and didn't really have a bad game.

I'm not suggesting Farrell is a better player.

Good thing about Farrell vs Sexton is that Farrell is 22 and Sexton is 28. Farrell is a much improved player than 12 months ago. The Lions tour has helped his development plus playing with Care has allowed Farrell to be feel more comfortable as Care has aided with the decision making.

Sexton has had a good 6 nations but was far from perfect. His poor restart vs England was a decisive error which gave England the field position to score the winning try. He also missed two straightforward kicks vs France - didn't cost Ireland in the end but could have.

Sexton is getting praised more than Farrell because he has scored more tries in my opinion. Didn't think that was the primary role of a 10....

isnt the primary role of a 10 to be a playmaker?

Farrell has improved as a playmaker

whocares wrote:isnt the primary role of a 10 to be a playmaker?

I thought the primary role of a 10 was to control the game - both offensively and defensively.

Kick your goals, relieve the pressure, help the forwards, make your tackles, get involved at the breakdown - just as important as the flashy stuff in my opinion. This gives the forwards confidence when they know their 10 is going to put the team in the right places and make the right decisions. Not everything is based on attack in my opinion. If a 10 makes more tackles it means that it relieves the workload of others for example.

Oh and of course don't make decisive errors like missing touch, giving away interceptions, missing penalties, kicking the ball out at the restart.

If the 10 can make a covering tackle to save a potential try it helps too.

The role of the 10 is whatever the team decides for it to be, as long as it helps the team. Why should your team's roles be defined by what external people expect them to be

I think the argument regarding Sexton and Farrell is that Sexton's best games (Wales and France) were a bit better than Farrell's best (Italy, where I thought he was unlucky not to be MotM), but that his poorest (England, which he was largely responsible for the defeat) was significantly worse than anything OF produced.

Farrell for me is probably the most improved player over the last year - 12 months ago was a good kicker and defensively sound, but he has really added the attacking element to his game, and his off-load for Brown's 2nd try on Saturday was excellent. England still need to work a bit on execution in attack, as too often the supporting player slightly over-ran Farrell when he took the ball to the line and offloaded (remember Burrell dropping a couple like this in earlier games and Nowell on Saturday). Hopefully a little more familiarity with the system and we can become really incisive in attack.


One further comment - is there a player anywhere in the 6Ns less fashionable amongst the fans and media than Robshaw? Was clearly the outstanding 7 of the tournament and yet half the teams here are suggesting Warburton (presumably on the strength of his good performance against France).

Due to the disgraceful lack of tokenism on display here, and my desire to bring all threads onto matters of Scottish rugby, here's my "should have stayed at home" XV:

1.M Vunipola 2.Ford 3.Low 4.Geldenhuys 5.Bortolami 6.Wilson 7.Brown 8.Parisse (tough, but his performance against England was the worst I've seen from him in an Italy jersey) 9.Laidlaw 10.Allan/Weir (tough one) 11.May 12.Garcia 13.BOD 14.Nowell 15.Hogg

dummy_half wrote:I think the argument regarding Sexton and Farrell is that Sexton's best games (Wales and France) were a bit better than Farrell's best (Italy, where I thought he was unlucky not to be MotM), but that his poorest (England, which he was largely responsible for the defeat) was significantly worse than anything OF produced.

Farrell for me is probably the most improved player over the last year - 12 months ago was a good kicker and defensively sound, but he has really added the attacking element to his game, and his off-load for Brown's 2nd try on Saturday was excellent. England still need to work a bit on execution in attack, as too often the supporting player slightly over-ran Farrell when he took the ball to the line and offloaded (remember Burrell dropping a couple like this in earlier games and Nowell on Saturday). Hopefully a little more familiarity with the system and we can become really incisive in attack.


One further comment - is there a player anywhere in the 6Ns less fashionable amongst the fans and media than Robshaw? Was clearly the outstanding 7 of the tournament and yet half the teams here are suggesting Warburton (presumably on the strength of his good performance against France).

It's against IRB regulations to praise Robshaw, be careful!

Dummy half I would agree with that assessment about Sexton vs Farrell. I also think Sexton is the more favoured 10 because for the armchair pundit he's more eyecatching with his attacking game. I doubt Farrell will ever be a fan favourite. Plus people hold his relatively aggressive style against him. I think Farrell's workrate in defence is a bit underrated - e.g. see his excellent cover tackle vs Italy.


Robshaw has been good but in a decent overall England pack performance I wouldn't say he has stood out. You could argue it's difficult to. Agreed that he's been the best 7 in the 6 nations though. Doesn't make eye catching carries which appeal to most armchair fans.

I would say Lawes has been the best player in the England pack.

Brown will probably win player of the 6 nations because a lot of what he's done has been very eyecatching. People love line breaks,tries and those who beat defenders. Brown fits into that category.

dummy_half wrote:
One further comment - is there a player anywhere in the 6Ns less fashionable amongst the fans and media than Robshaw? Was clearly the outstanding 7 of the tournament and yet half the teams here are suggesting Warburton (presumably on the strength of his good performance against France).

Chris Henry, who has done everything the two English lads have done and more

Brown will win player of the 6N because he's been the best player...

Notch wrote:

dummy_half wrote:
One further comment - is there a player anywhere in the 6Ns less fashionable amongst the fans and media than Robshaw? Was clearly the outstanding 7 of the tournament and yet half the teams here are suggesting Warburton (presumably on the strength of his good performance against France).

Chris Henry, who has done everything the two English lads have done and more

If you say so, mate

It is impossible for me to select a team of the tournament as while I paid almost full attention to England's matches, I either did not see or only half caught the others. this of course means that for a position like I saw the favourite playing his worst game of the tournament. What I can say is that as a forward I woudl have preferred the consistency of Farrell.

Chequeredjersey I agree with you. Brown has been the best player in my opinion but you cannot say that the breaks and tries don't help!

The less glamorous grunt work of forwards is is not really recognised.

Londontiger I agree.

Sorry, I am just indulging in the moment of having our players actually be important to England and acknowledged at the moment. We need that, because Quins as a club have been playing poorly without them

beshocked wrote:Chequeredjersey I agree with you. Brown has been the best player in my opinion but you cannot say that the breaks and tries don't help!

The less glamorous grunt work of forwards is is not really recognised.
Londontiger I agree.

Notch and I were just discussing this point on the Player of the Series thread. Only 2 tight 5 forwards shortlisted, and they were Healy and Ghiraldini, who are both more noted for their play in open field than in the tight.

While Lawes and Launchbury have been excellent, I think Mike Ross should also have been nominated. Ireland's scrum has rarely if ever taken a backward step, and he's been solid in the tight exchanges. If you can find a player who has done his job better all tournament, I'd be surprised.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Due to the disgraceful lack of tokenism on display here, and my desire to bring all threads onto matters of Scottish rugby, here's my "should have stayed at home" XV:

1.M Vunipola 2.Ford 3.Low 4.Geldenhuys 5.Bortolami 6.Wilson 7.Brown 8.Parisse (tough, but his performance against England was the worst I've seen from him in an Italy jersey) 9.Laidlaw 10.Allan/Weir (tough one) 11.May 12.Garcia 13.BOD :laugh:14.Nowell 15.Hogg

Can I dare to disagree with you

1. Domingo (appart from the england game, those were his worst performances ever and he could not adapt to what the ref was saying, even debaty was better)
2. Mach (ok a bit harsh but that was probably the worst line out performance in a 6N have seen against Scotland)
3. ok you can have Low there
4. Papé for being the worst captain of the tournament
5. not sure, cant remember much from Geldenhuys . maybe Hamilton?
6. Vahamahina (not his fault that he had to play there though)
7. Derbyshire
8. tough one indeed . agree with you although the whole Italian team capitulated against England.
9. you are tough on Laidlaw. Doussain deserve the spot for the horrible display against Wales (although he improved a bit after)
10. Plisson could be added to your list, even Priestland after all. difficult choice.
11. May be
12 yeah Garcia that's him although Mermoz (only one game) was pretty dire
13 not real standouts I agree so would go for Scott Williams for his "contribution" to the Ireland-Wales game
14. Iannone
15. Hogg was good till his brainfart. McLean was Mclean.

dummy_half wrote:I think the argument regarding Sexton and Farrell is that Sexton's best games (Wales and France) were a bit better than Farrell's best (Italy, where I thought he was unlucky not to be MotM), but that his poorest (England, which he was largely responsible for the defeat) was significantly worse than anything OF produced.

Farrell for me is probably the most improved player over the last year - 12 months ago was a good kicker and defensively sound, but he has really added the attacking element to his game, and his off-load for Brown's 2nd try on Saturday was excellent. England still need to work a bit on execution in attack, as too often the supporting player slightly over-ran Farrell when he took the ball to the line and offloaded (remember Burrell dropping a couple like this in earlier games and Nowell on Saturday). Hopefully a little more familiarity with the system and we can become really incisive in attack.


One further comment - is there a player anywhere in the 6Ns less fashionable amongst the fans and media than Robshaw? Was clearly the outstanding 7 of the tournament and yet half the teams here are suggesting Warburton (presumably on the strength of his good performance against France).

Dummy Half - nice summary. Farrell dictated the direction of the game vs Ireland. Sexton was also pivotal in that game but not in a good way. I'm not saying for one second that Farrell would be picked over Sexton if it was a Lions team, but from the evidence of the tournament Farrell was the leading Fly Half.

I also find myself agreeing with your other sentiments. The England back-row in general and Robshaw in particular were consistently excellent. I also think that, in attack, we need to have the wingers taking the ball at pace. How many times did a nice passing move come to a jittery stop because the winger had to pause to take the ball?

Rugby 365 - http://www.rugby365.com/article/58986-team-of-the-tournament-good-craic

I can't understand why anyone would have Parisse at 8. Or Davies, who played 1 poor game and 1 good game, as the back up 13 ahead of Burrell or Campagnaro

ChequeredJersey wrote:I can't understand why anyone would have Parisse at 8. Or Davies, who played 1 poor game and 1 good game, as the back up 13 ahead of Burrell or Campagnaro

Gethin was the 'bubbling under' loosehead....

 

lostinwales wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:I can't understand why anyone would have Parisse at 8. Or Davies, who played 1 poor game and 1 good game, as the back up 13 ahead of Burrell or Campagnaro

Gethin was the 'bubbling under' loosehead....

an Picamoles the "bubbling under" blind-side

PenfroPete wrote:Rugby 365 - http://www.rugby365.com/article/58986-team-of-the-tournament-good-craic

Illustrates dummy half's point nicely. Robshaw is in 3 of the first 4 Teams of the Week but somehow is not even the bubbling under openside

PLANET RUGBY - http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9218587,00.html

whocares wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Due to the disgraceful lack of tokenism on display here, and my desire to bring all threads onto matters of Scottish rugby, here's my "should have stayed at home" XV:

1.M Vunipola 2.Ford 3.Low 4.Geldenhuys 5.Bortolami 6.Wilson 7.Brown 8.Parisse (tough, but his performance against England was the worst I've seen from him in an Italy jersey) 9.Laidlaw 10.Allan/Weir (tough one) 11.May 12.Garcia 13.BOD :laugh:14.Nowell 15.Hogg

Can I dare to disagree with you

1. Domingo (appart from the england game, those were his worst performances ever and he could not adapt to what the ref was saying, even debaty was better)
2. Mach (ok a bit harsh but that was probably the worst line out performance in a 6N have seen against Scotland)
3. ok you can have Low there
4. Papé for being the worst captain of the tournament
5. not sure, cant remember much from Geldenhuys . maybe Hamilton?
6. Vahamahina (not his fault that he had to play there though)
7. Derbyshire
8. tough one indeed .  agree with you although the whole Italian team capitulated against England.
9. you are tough on Laidlaw. Doussain deserve the spot for the horrible display against Wales (although he improved a bit after)
10. Plisson could be added to your list, even Priestland after all. difficult choice.
11. May be
12 yeah Garcia that's him although Mermoz (only one game) was pretty dire
13 not real standouts I agree so would go for Scott Williams for his "contribution" to the Ireland-Wales game
14. Iannone
15. Hogg was good till his brainfart. McLean was Mclean.

Hmmm, some decent suggestions. Fat Bastereau would have been a shoe-in at 13 had he not turned up in Paris to give D'Arcy and BOD nightmares, up until that point he'd been sluggish all tournament, and even playing well against Ireland he still displayed handling skills I can now only describe as "Scottish".

Iannone is a better shout than Nowell. Nowell is full of energy and enthusiasm, albeit that I think he's just a bit short on pace and uncomfortable when his positioning is tested. Plisson vs Allan vs Weir vs Priestland: that's the hardest call to make. All were pretty rubbish.

Some of the selections in that Rugby365 article are bizarre! Seen many better efforts from various posters on this thread.

PenfroPete wrote:Rugby 365 - http://www.rugby365.com/article/58986-team-of-the-tournament-good-craic

O'Connell and O'Driscoll in the team of the tournament of every single one of their pundits? Both great players, and both had good tournaments, but neither were the obvious standout player in their position, unlike Healy or Brown, for example.

The suggestion that Parisse was the best number 8 of the tournament is really odd. I think sometimes people just use the template for last year and don't bother to change it!

He was utterly anonymous against England at the weekend, and I didn't think he was particularly impressive in the game against Scotland either. By his very high standards, I'd say he's had a quiet tournament.