Wilder v Klitschko

First topic message reminder :

What chance would you give Wilder in this? I really think he has a good one. Klitschko is technically better in the basics department and more experienced (but older). His career has been spent facing absolute crap though, especially lately. Wilder is a monster puncher, pretty good athlete and reasonably quick. Klitschko seldom faces anyone with all of these combined attributes. I think the fight will 100% never happen because both sides wont fancy it enough but I think Wilder is all wrong for Klitschkos standard jab and grab routine and Klitschko would sh1t himself against that sort of opponent.

There is no way Wlad turns the fight down, a very winnable fight against America's biggest heavyweight, easy money & exposure in the US. Also you can say what you like about Wlads ability and all time standing but I have yet to see him avoid any of the challenges available to him.

Agree that Wlad would be cautious though but dont think this would be his downfall.

He wont fight a dangerous opponent like Wilder when he can feast on tailor made bums unless there is 20 million in it for him or something like that. Hes perfectly happy fighting stiffs for big money in Germany.

CW still doesn't rate Wlad... Pity, I really thought the Povetkin masterclass woulda changed your mind

Masterclass??

It was a fooking mess.

Remind us again how Lewis avoided Sanders there kingraf or how Martinez fights every match with one hand and one leg.

Like it or not Wlad is the dominant heavy of his day..

Jeffries wasn't pretty either..

Nailed on Top 15 heavy...

Sarcasm, Toppy

Whoops, sorry Kingy

it's alright mate, I forgot to add smiley, which usually gives it away

The handlers of Wilder have been very careful with him since he turned pro. He was down quite a few times as an amateur and dropped and hurt by Harold Sconiers a couple years ago. I don't see them putting him in with Wlad. Let's see howhe does against the Arreola/Stiverne winner if he actually does face one of them. I think either one sparks him.

1) I've mentioned Martinez being otherwise semi-incapacitated because I feel Chavez can only beat GGG by KO, and his inability to put away, or avoid a counter attack during that 12th round leaves me in doubt as to whether he can actually beat GGG.

2) I came out with the Lewis-Sanders theory, was told its unlikely, and said fair enough...

Wilder is probably a future world champ... I mean once Wlad retires, barring an unforseen superstar, I'm predicting a title merry go round.... Still don't see how
a) He beats Wlad, especially if he goes past four rounds...
b) Wlad would avoid him for easier money...

Klitschko would avoid him because there are easier fights out there for him. Wilder would also be happy to wait for Klitschko to retire and take on easier fights. Why would Klitschko go after when he can make a nice packet fighting this next joker and the winner of Fury and Chisora? Easy fights for him.

I just dont see Wlad avoiding Wilder. I can see Wilder waiting him out, agree with that but the other way round? Wlad has never avoided anyone, you have to give him credit for that and I think he would want it for reasons stated by kingraf. Not sure what Wilder's standing is in the US but if they could get this stateside I think its a no brainer for Wlad.

I'd prefer to see Toppy vs Wlad...

A short guy (never easy punching low) who outweighs Wlad would be an interesting test !!!..

Dustin Nicholls already tried that versus Wilder n it didn't work out well for him.....

I dont think Klitschko would avoid him if he became mandatory challenger but he isnt going to go looking for that fight when he can make easy money against much safer opponents. Ultimately its Wilders perogative to chase the champion which I doubt he will do by the looks of things but Klitschko will be perfectly happy with that. Unless he is getting paid silly money then his voluntary defences usually amount to the absolute pits. Mormeck and Pianeta for example. A few easy million for less than a work out.

Has Wlad ever side stepped a mandatory? Wilder could do things the old fashioned way, earn a shot.

Wilder hits hard, sure, but so do most people at HW, Wlad survived a rather flush crack from Haye, so maybe he's chin isn't all bad? When you're resume tops out at Harrison, and the guy who got knocked by Chisora, I'd hardly say you've proven anything, or that you're "avoided for easier fights", as if Wilder's pro record is a stand out compared to the "easier" fighters

Nonsense mate, were it not for Haye he would have faced him at first opportunity - he'll quite happily beat wilder for a lot of money.

You can look a bit beyond the record and see what Wilder brings. His record is no worse than Wach or Pianteta who were pretty obviously no hopers or Mormeck as well. But fair enough if what people are looking forward to is another Klitschko hugfest against a stubby European who is smaller, slower, weaker and less skilled. Id like to see Klitschko against one of the few guys who offers a threat and something different in the division.

Nobody here is saying they don't want to see it - they are just ridiculing you for the ridiculous assertion that wlad would rather face stiffs for a cheap sum rather than fight wilder because its easier. Almost a waingro type jab at a good fighter who has never sidestepped anyone.

Of course Klitschko would rather face easier opponents than harder opponents. Why else does he line up boxers like Mormeck, Wach and Pianeta. He only faces the tougher fights if there is big money at stake or they are mandatory. Its taken him over twenty years to finally become the top heavyweight.

Why wouldn't Wilder be viewed as an easy opponent like those three? Because he's got the Golden Boy/Showtime hype machine working overdrive at the moment?

Probably because he is short of opponents - Wilder had one sparring session with Wlad and declared himself not ready to fight for the title. Fury went after Haye who all thought they'd get a piece of the pie from Vitalis retirement. He's more or less beaten everyone else of note.

No because hes in shape, reasonably athletic and fast and has murderous punching power. You must be on something if you think those punchbags are as dangerous as Wilder.

Everyone only faces tough fights if they are big money or mandatory... Fight Of The Century wasn't a copper box fight...

I've already stated that this would he a tough fight, but there is nothing that suggests Wlad would actively sidestep this for an easier nights work... BECAUSE WILDER HASNT GONE LOOKING FOR WLAD.

Mormeck was a former world champ and a damn sight better than anything Wilder has beat. I can't understand how you can criticise Wlad for fighting Euro level fighters, when Wilder's best win is freakin Harrison

I cant understand how anyone that pretends to follow boxing could think a non entity 40 something Mormeck who was never a heavyweight could be viewed as even in the same league as Wilder. Mormeck might make it to about 60 seconds against Wilder.

catchweight wrote:No because hes in shape, reasonably athletic and fast and has murderous punching power. You must be on something if you think those punchbags are as dangerous as Wilder.

Yet the only guy to hit him back with any power had him all over the place. For the record, I think Wach would be a really tough fight for him. The man has proven to have an extremely durable chin and has no problem going the rounds. Wilder has yet to go past 4. Just too many questions about him right now for me. But yes, I agree. Guys like Wach, Mormeck and Pianeta are poor challengers for the title. Wlad shouldn't have wasted his time with them IMO.

Let me put it like this - It's amusing that the guy who holds 3/4 major championships, and faced anyone not named Vitali... The Ring Pound for Pound #4, is apprehensive about fighting the WBC Continental Americas Heavyweight champ... Sure he is

kingraf wrote:Let me put it like this - It's amusing that the guy who holds 3/4 major championships, and faced anyone not named Vitali... The Ring Pound for Pound #4, is apprehensive about fighting the WBC Continental Americas Heavyweight  champ... Sure he is

Pretty much  

kingraf wrote:
I've already stated that this would he a tough fight, but there is nothing that suggests Wlad would actively sidestep this for an easier nights work... BECAUSE WILDER HASNT GONE LOOKING FOR WLAD.

Got to agree with this Raf, there are countless criticisms of Wlad, many of which are valid. However avoiding challengers or tough fights is not one of them. Worth remembering Haye, who many at the time said was his toughest available opponent, was not his mandatory, OK he had a belt but Wlad did not have to fight him, he chose to. Since his unbeaten run when someone emerges as a perceived or genuine threat Wlad tends to face them. At the minute Wilder is just getting to the point where people are starting to talk about him as an opponent. I am in no doubt should he emerge as the opponent rather than an opponent he will get his chance.

Sure he is. Because Wilder is not like 90% of the puddings he has faced in his entire career. If Wilder becomes mandatory he will face him (he wont have a choice). Outside of that he wont have any desire to pursue the fight. Especially when he can fights Wachs and Mormecks for millions. Wilder wont want it either because its too risky for him too especially as Klitschko would bag most of the money. So they will happily avoid each other which is a shame because its the most interesting fight out there for Klitschko.

Arreola/Stiverne winner and Chisora/Fury winner are way more interesting fights for Wlad IMO. Unless, of course, Wilder defeats one of them.

Why didn't he avoid Haye then, if he's so keen to avoid dangerous non-mandatory challengers??

Sorry but there is a subtle differance between avoiding fights and pursuing the most dangerous or biggest ones actively. Klitschko fights the harder fights when hes obligated to. When he has the choice of fighting whoever he wants he offers non deserving challengers the fight where they take it for a miniscule payday and pose no threat.Easy money and work for Klitschko. If given a choice of whoever he wants to face, Wilder would be down towards the bottom of the list I bet.

Well he says he really wants to fight in the States again. There are two opponents who can make that possible. Arreola or Wilder.

A champion very rarely pursues any fight unless the monetary reward is worth it, it's happened since the dawning of time.

All this was being said about Seth Mitchell too. All the American hopes were on him, another guy who took up boxing late, who fed on poor opponents for years, and was backed by Golden Boy. As soon as he stepped up and faced someone who could hit him back he was shown up terribly.

Wlad's next opponent is an Australian based Samoan Leapia. I can't see him having any trouble with him or Wilder if they ever get to fight each other.

Kurt Ward wrote:Arreola/Stiverne winner and Chisora/Fury winner are way more interesting fights for Wlad IMO. Unless, of course, Wilder defeats one of them.

Right, so clones of the same crap Klitschko has been fighting for a decade.

Genuine question for you Catchweight, could you give an example of a high earning champion chasing a fight with a low reward but perceived high risk threat?

I won't disagree that Wlads opposition has been garbage but he has fought the 'best' of a very bad bunch for the large part.

catchweight wrote:

Kurt Ward wrote:Arreola/Stiverne winner and Chisora/Fury winner are way more interesting fights for Wlad IMO. Unless, of course, Wilder defeats one of them.

Right, so clones of the same crap Klitschko has been fighting for a decade.

You seem very bitter towards Mr Klitschko. I like those clones, they actually take on tough fights. Let me know when Wilder beats someone better than Audley Harrison  

catchweight wrote:Of course Klitschko would rather face easier opponents than harder opponents. Why else does he line up boxers like Mormeck, Wach and Pianeta. He only faces the tougher fights if there is big money at stake or they are mandatory. Its taken him over twenty years to finally become the top heavyweight.

ignoring the fact he has fought the two biggest challenges for the last 10 years in haye and povetkin.

catchweight wrote:Sorry but there is a subtle differance between avoiding fights and pursuing the most dangerous or biggest ones actively. Klitschko fights the harder fights when hes obligated to. When he has the choice of fighting whoever he wants he offers non deserving challengers the fight where they take it for a miniscule payday and pose no threat.Easy money and work for Klitschko. If given a choice of whoever he wants to face, Wilder would be down towards the bottom of the list I bet.

Haye was not a mandatory....

catchweight wrote:Klitschko would avoid him because there are easier fights out there for him. Wilder would also be happy to wait for Klitschko to retire and take on easier fights. Why would Klitschko go after when he can make a nice packet fighting this next joker and the winner of Fury and Chisora? Easy fights for him.

Wlad's last opponent was Povetkin who at the time was the 2nd/3rd most dangerous HW (between him and Haye)

Wilder is an accident waiting to happen. China in the mandible. He doesn't lay a punch on Wlad and gets crushed the first time Klitschko's let's the right hand go although they may only first occur in about the 7th round.

Plus Wlads got a mean left hook when he counters. Wilder will offer plenty of opportunity.

Read what I said. I said Klitschko is happy to avoid facing Wilder while he can make similar money fighting no hopers. If someone stumps up 20million to fight Wilder or Wilder becomes his mandatory, then he would opt to take the fight. But if he can fight Mormeck, Wach or Pianeta and jokers like these then he is more than happy to and collect millions for sparring sessions.

That could apply to nearly every other top guy out there   

I never argued that. Mayweather has been doing it for years. Its everyone else that doesnt seem to accept the point.

And Mormeck, Wach and Pianteta are three of the most undeserving title challengers ever. Low even by this crap divisions standards.