Toulon v Leinster - HC QF

The winners of the last 3 HC's face off on Sunday in the QF on French soil.

Toulon have a few injuries but have squad jammed with internationals so they won't be weakened much.

Just off the back of a cracking win over Toulouse where little Freddie ran the show scoring a try, 2 conversions and 6 penalties to bag a handsome 27 points.

Leinster's win over Munster was, a more sedate affair, scoring only 1 try, and resting their top carrying threat Cian Healy.

Leinster haven't exactly been firing on all cylinders lately (despite winning their last 10 games in a row) but the Northampton game this year will give them the confidence that they can pull out a result.

Should be a cracker.

15: Rob Kearney
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Dave Kearney
10: Jimmy Gopperth
9: Eoin Reddan
1: Cian Healy
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Devin Toner
5: Mike McCarthy
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN
REPLACEMENTS:
16: Sean Cronin
17: Jack McGrath
18: Martin Moore
19: Leo Cullen
20: Jordi Murphy
21: Isaac Boss
22: Ian Madigan
23: Zane Kirchner

1/ Chiocci
2/ Burden
3/ Hayman
4/ Rossouw
5/ Suta
6/ J. Smith
7/ Fernandez Lobbe
8/ S. Armitage
9/ Tillous-Borde
10/ Wilkinson (.cap)
11/ D. Smith
12/ Giteau
13/ Bastareaud  
14/ Mitchell
15/ D. Armitage

The substitutes:
16/ Orioli
17/ Menini
18/ Castrogiovanni
19/ Mikautadze
20/ Bruni
21/ Michalak
22/ Mermoz
23/ Habana

Presume Wilko was just rested for the Toulouse game and hell be back? Wouldnt mind Michalak playing although with that pack in front of him he could do some damage.

Whats their first team looked like so far? They've too many class players in each position for me to guess.

Here's a squad they could put out:

1. Xavier Chiocci
2. Craig Burden
3. Carl Hayman
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Ali Williams
6. Juan Smith
7. Steffon Armitage
8. JM Fernandez-Lobbe
9. Fred Michalak
10. Jonny
11. David Smith
12. Matt Giteau
13. Matthieu Bastareaud
14. Drew Mitchell
15. Delon Armitage

16. Castrogiovanni
17. JC Orioli
18. Joss Suta
19. Joe Van Niekerk
20. Seb Tillous-Bordes
21. Maxime Mermoz
22. Bryan Habana
23. Levan Chilachava

From a Toulon fan on Leinsterfans. I thought Williams and Botha were injured...

I heard they were injured too but could return.

Huge game but can't see past a home win ..... I'm getting palpitations just reading that team list from Toulon - that pack is monstrous...

If Leinster can win here it will be one of the greatest wins in Irish rugby history. It's not impossible but it is hard to see how they will manage it.

Leinster will be fitter if they can control the pace but that's about it. Toulon look very powerful.

rodders wrote:Huge game but can't see past a home win ..... I'm getting palpitations just reading that team list from Toulon - that pack is monstrous...

If Leinster can win here it will be one of the greatest wins in Irish rugby history. It's not impossible but it is hard to see how they will manage it.

Leinster will be fitter if they can control the pace but that's about it. Toulon look very powerful.

I dont buy that. I think Connacht beating Toulouse or Leinster beating Toulouse or Clermont in France is more impressive. Even Munster's win in Leicester years ago would be a bigger achievement. They have a nice roster but they arent that good. Probably one of the worst champions I can recall in the Heineken cup.

They will try to strangle the life out of Leinster and chip away with Wilko pens. We will probably need a few tricks up our sleeve to win but Leinster have it in them to pull it off. Regardless as champions at home Toulon deservedly start as favorites.

What do you mean they are there for the taking

Ageing front 5
Flaky 9
13 who cant pass

Team full of weaknesses   

Someone should get some goggles for Fitz if Botha is fit   

That bench is crazy (no 2nd row cover though?).

Hard to see any area that Leinster could target.

Golden wrote:Someone should get some goggles for Fitz if Botha is fit   

That bench is crazy (no 2nd row cover though?).

Hard to see any area that Leinster could target.

Fitness. Run them around the park and tire the out. Even if they have a good bench emptying it will result in less cohesion from Toulon. Their manager is also suspended so they may not be able to adapt tactically if Leinster blow them away early on.

GunsGerms wrote:

rodders wrote:Huge game but can't see past a home win ..... I'm getting palpitations just reading that team list from Toulon - that pack is monstrous...

If Leinster can win here it will be one of the greatest wins in Irish rugby history. It's not impossible but it is hard to see how they will manage it.

Leinster will be fitter if they can control the pace but that's about it. Toulon look very powerful.

I dont buy that. I think Connacht beating Toulouse or Leinster beating Toulouse or Clermont in France is more impressive. Even Munster's win in Leicester years ago would be a bigger achievement. They have a nice roster but they arent that good. Probably one of the worst champions I can recall in the Heineken cup.

They will try to strangle the life out of Leinster and chip away with Wilko pens. We will probably need a few tricks up our sleeve to win but Leinster have it in them to pull it off. Regardless as champions at home Toulon deservedly start as favorites.

Would agree, only because Clermont are such useless chokers...still though Leinster have the win against Clermont in 2012 to base it on which was a big achievement for Leinster given the other run ins were all home based. Having said that winning away in France to any team in a QF is a big win because at this stage they (the French) are interested. Its not Castres with nothing to play for. Toulon have also seen how effective the Saints were in Dublin and are capable of repeating that. Added to the fact that their backline is infinitely more dangerous. Still they did lose to Cardiff so there is some hope..

GunsGerms wrote:They will try to strangle the life out of Leinster and chip away with Wilko pens. We will probably need a few tricks up our sleeve to win but Leinster have it in them to pull it off. Regardless as champions at home Toulon deservedly start as favorites.

They are just going to bash Leinster in the pack and kick goals - the problem is how Leinster stop them. I think it's a tougher job than you think here. It doesn't matter that they're pack is old because if they get on top they will control the pace of the game.

Ideally Leinster want to move them around but they can only do that if they can win the ball and dominate the breakdown - with the back row Toulon have that is some ask.

I also agree that they aren't *that* good.

If Leinster bring the intensity they brought in Northampton, it should be more than good enough. When Glasgow stepped up in the 2nd half they couldn't follow.

Leinster are fairly used to losing the forward battle but winning the game at this stage. Its unlikely we will be able to boss their pack so whatever the plan is we will need to be pretty efficient when we have our own ball. Hopefully Fitz wont be starting because he will just give the ball away as always.

Has Juan Smith got back to where he used to be? Itll be good to see him in such a big game after coming so close to retiring.

Toulon have the best defence in the Top 14 and the second best points scored (tied with Montpellier).

Golden wrote:Has Juan Smith got back to where he used to be? Itll be good to see him in such a big game after coming so close to retiring.

Toulon have the best defence in the Top 14 and the second best points scored (tied with Montpellier).

Watched him at the weekend he was good, he was very prominent and powerfull taking the ball into contact, some mistakes here and there though.

Mickado wrote:Here's a squad they could put out:

1. Xavier Chiocci
2. Craig Burden
3. Carl Hayman
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Ali Williams
6. Juan Smith
7. Steffon Armitage
8. JM Fernandez-Lobbe
9. Fred Michalak
10. Jonny
11. David Smith
12. Matt Giteau
13. Matthieu Bastareaud
14. Drew Mitchell
15. Delon Armitage

16. Castrogiovanni
17. JC Orioli
18. Joss Suta
19. Joe Van Niekerk
20. Seb Tillous-Bordes
21. Maxime Mermoz
22. Bryan Habana
23. Levan Chilachava

From a Toulon fan on Leinsterfans. I thought Williams and Botha were injured...

Botha is definitely out. Williams is uncertain. their 2nd row might be lightweight specially as Rossow doesnt look fit. they recently had to play more with ball in hand to compensate their lack of power and grunt. not sure if that suits Wilco... Michalak should be on the bench and cover 9/10.

Is David Smith any good and is he likely to start ahead of Habana?

Much of a crowd from Leinster going out?

Dont know Dod sorry.

Geech reckons Leinster will win:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/european-rugby/10731516/Sir-Ian-McGeechan-My-predictions-for-the-best-Heineken-Cup-quarter-finals-Europe-has-ever-produced.html

2.5k i heard

This is the last year of the easy fixtures before the improved set up comes in so really the winners this year are just getting a European Cup* forever having an asterix beside it.

Reckon this weekend shows 100% home wins.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:This is the last year of the easy fixtures before the improved set up comes in so really the winners this year are just getting a European Cup* forever having an asterix beside it.

Reckon this weekend shows 100% home wins.

The cream always rises to the top regardless of whether there are easy pool games or not. If you are good enough to win this year all things being equal you will be good enough to win next year. There is no difference for the top 5 or 6 teams in Europe.

Leicester came very close to winning in Toulon in last year's QFs. Toulon are not a s good as they were then, while Leinster are better than Leicester were.

So apologies to Leinster fans but I am predicting you will win.

That just you and Geech so far. Ill back Leinster to win too.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:This is the last year of the easy fixtures before the improved set up comes in so really the winners this year are just getting a European Cup* forever having an asterix beside it.

Reckon this weekend shows 100% home wins.

75% of home wins in the history of HC QFs. that's one away winner, I'd back Leinster or Toulouse to do it but all match-ups are pretty even unlike in previous years.

Its probably the best Heineken cup quarter final line up ever. The remaining teams have won 13 Heineken Cups out of the past 18 between them. Only Sarries and Clermont have never won one but Clermont have made the final.

Lets face it the negotiations were only every about one thing, all the demands, spin and arguements all lead back to the same thing, money. The tournament will not be improved next year with less Italian, Scottish, Irish and Welsh teams but the English and French clubs do stand to earn a lot more money while all other teams will get the same as ever.

Sadly this probably means that over time Rabo sides will lose their best players to England and France which isnt great news for anyone.

I would have to say home win in this one but Leinster are still very much a good team and will be hard to beat. There will be very little between them.

I really hope Leinster do get the win though

Whats the possible team from Leinster?

Probable concerns for Leinster...

Ross was hammered by the third choice Irish Loose head last weekend will he be capable against the Toulon front row (with a less sympathetic referee?)
Are Healy and McGrath fully fit

Do Leinster have that extra this year given the poor result in the aviva against Northampton. Last weekend against a poor Munster they still needed the ref to help them over the line.

ME-109 wrote:Whats the possible team from Leinster?

Probable concerns for Leinster...

Ross was hammered by the third choice Irish Loose head last weekend will he be capable against the Toulon front row (with a less sympathetic referee?)
Are Healy and McGrath fully fit

Do Leinster have that extra this year given the poor result in the aviva against Northampton. Last weekend against a poor Munster they still needed the ref to help them over the line.

  He was yeah!

Healy is back in full training, don't think McGrath will make it though.

I hear Dave Average is back fit. Wonder if MOC will pick him over McFadden and Luke Fitz. I guess if he does Leinster are going for a defensive strategy only?

Hopefully he is picked ahead of Fitz anyway. I would be happy enough with McFadden too. We will want to pick our best players v Toulon so Im sure Kearney will feature.

Not looking to score much then? McFadden was anonymous last weekend. Luke Fitz looked the only dangerous back in terms of capable of making a break. Kearney could be embarrassed by the Toulon wings. Also will be curious if Madigan or Gopperth start.

ME-109 wrote:Not looking to score much then? McFadden was anonymous last weekend. Luke Fitz looked the only dangerous back in terms of capable of making a break. Kearney could be embarrassed by the Toulon wings. Also will be curious if Madigan or Gopperth start.

As long as we score more than them I don't care.

Fitz gave the ball away too much with silly offloads.

I'd select Madigan over Gopperth and Kearney/McFadden over Fitz.

ME-109 wrote:I hear Dave Average is back fit. Wonder if MOC will pick him over McFadden and Luke Fitz. I guess if he does Leinster are going for a defensive strategy only?

You never know, MOC may have to select a certain amount of Munster players to keep the Irish media happy. So its hard to know who will be picked.

Anyway I'd go for Kearney and Fitz on the wings with McFadden on the bench.

Fitz was the best winger on offer last week and McFadden kept Zebo quiet. Harsh on either to lose out but I'd probably have Kearney in for McFadden too.

Odd that Kitchener is no where near the first team.

Golden wrote:Fitz was the best winger on offer last week and McFadden kept Zebo quiet. Harsh on either to lose out but I'd probably have Kearney in for McFadden too.

Odd that Kitchener is no where near the first team.

I think you mean he couldnt keep up with him....

Mickado wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Not looking to score much then? McFadden was anonymous last weekend. Luke Fitz looked the only dangerous back in terms of capable of making a break. Kearney could be embarrassed by the Toulon wings. Also will be curious if Madigan or Gopperth start.

As long as we score more than them I don't care.

Then you will need Gopperth...Madigan is too flakey kicking wise.

GunsGerms wrote:Fitz gave the ball away too much with silly offloads.

I'd select Madigan over Gopperth and Kearney/McFadden over Fitz.

According to the stats he turned over the ball 2, Mcfadden once. But Fitz had much more in attack.

It doesnt matter how much a player has in attack if they cant bring other players into the game or set it up to be recycled in a tackle situation.

GunsGerms wrote:It doesnt matter how much a player has in attack if they cant bring other players into the game or set it up to be recycled in a tackle situation.

If the rest of the team are on the same wavelength we’ve the ability to do more damage if Fitzgerald is playing.

If he needs to try to be the play maker from the wing, he over does it, but if he’s been given opportunities to be part of an effective attack, we’re sucking diesel.

IMO he tries too many speculative off loads and things he isnt capable of and ends up losing possession more often than any other player.

GunsGerms wrote:IMO he tries to many speculative off loads and things he isnt capable of and ends up losing possession more often than any other player.

That is clearly incorrect. BOD and Redden gave the ball away more than Fitz last weekend. Fitz was the best attacking player for Leinster (and very good defensively). Offers a lot more than the incumbents.

GunsGerms wrote:IMO he tries too many speculative off loads and things he isnt capable of and ends up losing possession more often than any other player.

If an offload doesn't come off, it's not the fault of the person who gave it. That's a JS matra.

That's clearly not true. You dont throw an offload if it isnt on. Fitz does though. Ireland offloaded less than any other team in the 6 nations but were very accurate when they did. Im sure its more likely Schmidt's mantra is to only offload when it is appropriate to do so.

If you are to beat Toulon on Saturday you are going to need more than a plodder or two on the wings. Also to deal with them defensively. Fitz is a better all round player in that regard.

ME-109 wrote:If you are to beat Toulon on Saturday you are going to need more than a plodder or two on the wings. Also to deal with them defensively. Fitz is a better all round player in that regard.

If they are to beat Toulon on Sunday I think they need to bring back Denis Hickey   Now theres a player that Daverage wouldnt catch in a hurry.

BlueMuff wrote:

ME-109 wrote:If you are to beat Toulon on Saturday you are going to need more than a plodder or two on the wings. Also to deal with them defensively. Fitz is a better all round player in that regard.

If they are to beat Toulon on Sunday I think they need to bring back Denis Hickey   Now theres a player that Daverage wouldnt catch in a hurry.

Well a second row wouldnt catch Denis Hickey so I guess your right.  

Plenty of chatter on the wing options.
It's great to be in a position that we can choose from Fitz - McFadden - Kearney - Kirchener.
To think we had to clear out Conway, Jones, Morris to lower tier teams in order to free up space.
Great to have enough depth to allow positive debate though.

Injury report off leinster site;
After being rested on Monday, Brian O'Driscoll, Eoin Reddan and Gordon D'Arcy all took full part in today's training session in UCD.
There was also a return to training for Dave Kearney, who has recovered from a knock, and Rhys Ruddock who was carrying a calf injury.

Other players not considered for selection against Munster, like Cian Healy, Jack McGrath and Martin Moore, all took a full part in training.

The Leinster team to face Toulon in the Heineken Cup Quarter-final will be announced at 12pm on Friday, April 4th, on the Leinster Rugby website.

Leinster v Toulon will kickoff at 4.30pm (5.30pm French time) and will be broadcast live on Sky Sports 3.


These things don't give away as much information as they used to under Cheika and Schmidt. MOC is a different fish.