CL Last 16

First topic message reminder :

Part Moyes, part the squad SAF left him. Naive in the extreme to think yesterday would've ended up any different with SAF at the helm

GSC wrote:Nah he had to make do with prime Ronaldinho, Deco, Eto'o etc in that run

im sorry but none of them even get close to messi, even though ronaldinho was a great great player. xavi, inestia and messi as a trio p!ss all over those three.

kingraf wrote:Pep has TWO champions leagues. Think you'll find the list crappy managers with two Medals painfully short.

this has nothing to do with what were talking about, im arguing that pep was lucky to inherit a great team already, gsc the opposite.

I don't think anyone is calling him a crappy manager but the mark of a great manager is being able to rebuild something he didn't have the stomach for. The moment his team started to look past their best he jumped ship.

compelling and rich wrote:

kingraf wrote:Pep has TWO champions leagues. Think you'll find the list crappy managers with two Medals painfully short.

this has nothing to do with what were talking about, im arguing that pep was lucky to inherit a great team already, gsc the opposite.  

and its not exactly painfully short

villalonga
carnigla
guttmann
munoz
herrera
kovacs
cramer
paisley
clough
happell
sacchi
heynkes
ferguson
hitzfeld
del bosque

oops missed out the gobsh!te one

Plus Mourinho and Ancelotti.

Of those how many would you say are crappy managers? Ergo the list of crappy managers with multiple titles is painfully short.

again find anyone calling him a crappy manager?

I would assume you are... I said you the list of crappy multiple winners is painfully short. You replied that it isn't, painfully short and listed them.

Obviously a list containing Paisley, Ferguson, Clough, Munoz and Heynckes is highlighting the crappy managers Raf.

What I will say though is that he's a lesser manager than many who either haven't won it or only won it twice like Stein, Shankly, Van Gaal or Hiddink just for starters.

kingraf wrote:I would assume you are... I said you the list of crappy multiple winners is painfully short. You replied that it isn't, painfully short and listed them.

Considering you know thats not what he was arguing with that list that was frightfully immature young King!

We must first find out where we are rating Pep before we argue he is over or underrated. At the moment you may both be right as GSC might rate him too highly and equally C&R too low. Wonderful though really. You're both right   

Really? I suggest you read it as it reads. Hardly any jump in conclusions on my part

compelling and rich wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:

kingraf wrote:Pep has TWO champions leagues. Think you'll find the list crappy managers with two Medals painfully short.

this has nothing to do with what were talking about, im arguing that pep was lucky to inherit a great team already, gsc the opposite.  

and its not exactly painfully short

villalonga
carnigla
guttmann
munoz
herrera
kovacs
cramer
paisley
clough
happell
sacchi
heynkes
ferguson
hitzfeld
del bosque

yeah i read it wrong, read it as the list of two time champs is painfully short

even still it bears no relevance of what were talking about either way

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

kingraf wrote:I would assume you are... I said you the list of crappy multiple winners is painfully short. You replied that it isn't, painfully short and listed them.

Considering you know thats not what he was arguing with that list that was frightfully immature young King!

We must first find out where we are rating Pep before we argue he is over or underrated. At the moment you may both be right as GSC might rate him too highly and equally C&R too low. Wonderful though really. You're both right   

nice to get back to some actual debating, its hard rate him anywhere just yet as its still so early in his career and as ive said i do feel he has been lucky in the teams he's managed. out of the current managers out there he's behind mourinho. but a lot will tell about pep in years to come when he has to build teams of his own and do a lot of reshaping. his football is currently one dimensional which teams are getting switched on about and he will need to adapt if he's going to become best of the best managers out there. his football worked a lot better at barca because of a certain mr messi. very easy tactics when he's pulling moments of brilliance all the time.

his time at bayern will tell me more about him as a manger than his time at barca

I think there is a balance, Guardiola is obviously a very good football manager who has bossed one of the best teams ever and looks to be setting up Bayern to be one as well, even after this result. However, there has to be something said in that he's never been without a world class squad filled with some of the best players in the world in all that success, and so there will always be a question mark over his head as to whether he could achieve success with a team that isn't so fantastic through his own managerial talents in the way you could say a Ferguson or Mourinho has done in the past. 

That question isn't likely to be answered and doesn't need to be to say that Guardiola is a fantastic football coach. I would also like to see him, as I would Mourinho, stay at a club for a long period so that we can see his abilities to discard of a squad and rebuild a new one, a talent that we have only really seen Sir Alex Ferguson perfect. It would have been fascinating to see how Guardiola would have dealt with Barcelona now with his core of the side in Puyol and Xavi ageing and need of being replaced and Messi struggling to be at his best. 

I don't think that this result should be looked into too deep, Madrid got three set piece goals and the game was open the moment they went two up. I think Bayern look about the same as last year, if they look slightly worse I think it will most likely be due to trying to adapt to a new style, which isn't identical to Pep's Barcelona as some seem to suggest. One thing I don't like about Guardiola is his unnecessary tinkering, such as playing Lahm in midfield, which for me strikes as being clever for the sake of it. Lahm does a fine job in midfield, because he's a world class player, top three in the world for me but the Bayern team doesn't need a really good midfielder but is relatively weak at right back.

To me this result shows that Franc Ribery is no Ronaldo and no Messi and maybe Bayern fans and players shouldn't have had their panties in twirl when he didn't win the world player of the year award. Guardiola is a very strong manager but of course he has had great teams. Yet, lets not underestimate him. Ferguson won the title with pretty much the same United squad that finished 7th and Barca hasn't been the same team since he left them. So he certainly has contributed to the success of the teams he has managed. Managing a big club provides big opportunities but not every manager who steps into a Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern, or United is instantly successful. Managing big egos and big expectations takes its own skill set.

Whoever Real Madrid faces in the final, they are not going to be allowed the space they were granted against Bayern or the set piece gifts they were regaled with in the semi.

I can't help but feel when I saw the t-shirts come out making sense of Ronaldo's gesture after his first goal that their mentality is all wrong in terms of preparation for the final. Sure it's great to beat your Bayern demons and to enter the final with confidence. But neither Atleti or Chelsea will play to Madrid's liking and I get the sense of Madrid's feeling of entitlement will be their undoing.

Yeah against Chelsea or Atletico, it will be up to Real to take the initiative, they will have more possession and so cannot attack with the same pace on the counter attack. I still think they will be favourites for the match, their attack is fantastic and their midfield is also very good. I do think Alonso will be a miss, as Isco is probably too attacking with Di Maria also in the midfield three, Illarramendi is too inexperienced for such a huge game and Khedira is still injured, or if he is back he probably won't be at full fitness.

The awful referee that presided over the France-England game at Euro 2012 is in charge of Chelsea's game tonight.

John Terry might even start tonight, even though he only suffered what looked a more serious injury last week. Luiz and Willian one yellow away from missing the final.

I'll go for Chelsea to win 2-0 tonight. Oscar and Cahill to score.

Although he isn't liked, I have to say, Pepe played a blinder last night. He got his head,foot or body to everything.

Can I have a link making sense of the celebration, Kia? it's actually been bugging me since he scored it.

They're going for their 10th CL victory. The t-shirts they put on after the game said Por la decima which is Going for Victory #10.

and por la Decima we will.

Let's see after tonight...   

well If its a Madrid derby- Wow. Big ask though. We could see another tense 0-0 and a pen shoot out.

But going to go for a 2-1 chelsea. Hazard and oscar back will make a lot more chances and allows willian to play his natural attacking game with more space

Blue is the colour,
Chelsea is the name,
Being superior is the game,
Even if it couldn't be any duller!

Athleticooooooooooooooooooooo

Come on Simeon, defy the odds and win tonight!

it would be amusing though, that after four years of teased el Clasicos, we get a Madrid derby.

Either way, a final with a story no matter who wins this, so UEFA should be pleased.

2-0 chelsea. JM has the knack most of the time.

I can see Chelsea winning tonight but I hope i'm proved wrong. Think it'll be close like the 1st leg, except Chelsea playing a more attack based game, but weary of the Atletico counter which has been very effective this season. Chelsea need to be careful tonight, 1st goal is crucial. You don't want to be chasing the game vs Atletico as it'll play into their hands beautifully. Hoping for an Atletico win personally.

Can see this ending 0-0 and going to penalties.

Terrible booking. Ref bought what Costa was selling.

TORRESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chelsea 1-0 Atletico - Torres via deflection

The last goal Torres ever scores for Chelsea?

We've got Norwich on Sunday, Dolph.

But Torres is playing today, it won't be his turn for a little while after this

Had to be him. worth the money!

Chelsea 1-1 Atletico - Adrian

come on. Vamos por el primero!

Atleti one half away from the Derby. Poor Aguero probably didn't think Atletico would be closer to a UEFA final than City would get.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:come on. Vamos por el primero!

No one asked you.......    

Chelsea fans now petrified of another AM goal.

Let's see the JM tactics now.

I called this eight days ago. Even at 36, there really isn't any Chelsea would rather give a half chance to at this stage than Frank.

chelsea 3-1 winners

Great save Courtois

I really hope we don't sign Costa. Over the two legs he's been a right dirty bar steward.

Wouldn't that make him perfect for Chelsea then...

Louis just calm down.. Stop blasting it

Ah you beat me to it nando!!