CL Last 16

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Part Moyes, part the squad SAF left him. Naive in the extreme to think yesterday would've ended up any different with SAF at the helm

More a Real fan than anything Oakey, although nothing like the love I feel about the local Rugby team. Just like Bayern, as they're in my favorite province in the world, and have some of my favourite players. More importantly, I'm a huge Pep fan, and I can't understand why his achievements have been denigrated. Barcelona made up 20 points in league the year Pep came. Thats a lot of points.

Gotze/Pizzaro on for Rubbery/Muller Rice

The day Pep builds a squad of his own i'll start to believe the hype, he has thus far been gifted two world class squads to work with.

kingraf wrote:More a Real fan than anything Oakey, although nothing like the love I feel about the local Rugby team. Just like Bayern, as they're in my favorite province in the world, and have some of my favourite players. More importantly, I'm a huge Pep fan, and I  can't understand why his achievements have been denigrated. Barcelona made up 20 points in league the year Pep came. Thats a lot of points.

ok right- so your two fav teams playing tonight!

who is your fav PL team?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The day Pep builds a squad of his own i'll start to believe the hype, he has thus far been gifted two world class squads to work with.

So you must say the same about Ancelotti, Mourinho, Pellegrini, Blanc?

If any proof is needed, Barcelona have bombed under Martino and ever since Guardiola and his trusted right hand man left.

Your points are invalid, and you have no argument.

Ramos off for Varane (finally)

Do people actually realise the state Barca were in when Rikjaard left.

Ronaldinho, Deco, Marquez etc were all un disciplined, lazy and bad influences in the locker room. Xavi wanted to leave. Eto'o was leading a mutiny against said star players. Pedro and Busquets were youth players. Piqué occasionally made United bench.

Pep turned that into the dominant side of our generation and inspired Spain's international domination.

The myth that he walked into an easy job is both untrue and frankly moronic

#YouJustGotSchooledBro

I mean Jesus, in 5 years of top flight management, Peps equalled Ferguson and Cloughs European exploits.

And he's overrated.

Mourinho with a lot of money granted built a new side at Chelsea and won the champions league with Porto and Inter, that in itself is an indication of his worth as a manager. As for Ancelotti he had his Milan side that he built. The other two don't come into the equation yet.

The points are very valid, give a manager the teams that Pep has taken over and it's far easier than taking over teams that need rebuilding.

Chelsea probably. Lampard and Ballack were my favourite players... and they were in one team!! Plus unlike Gerrard and Lampard, the actually worked.

GSC wrote:Do people actually realise the state Barca were in when Rikjaard left.

Ronaldinho, Deco, Marquez etc were all un disciplined, lazy and bad influences in the locker room. Xavi wanted to leave. Eto'o was leading a mutiny against said star players. Pedro and Busquets were youth players. Piqué occasionally made United bench.

Pep turned that into the dominant side of our generation and inspired Spain's international domination.

The myth that he walked into an easy job is both untrue and frankly moronic

#TIKABOOSON

   

GSC wrote:Do people actually realise the state Barca were in when Rikjaard left.

Ronaldinho, Deco, Marquez etc were all un disciplined, lazy and bad influences in the locker room. Xavi wanted to leave. Eto'o was leading a mutiny against said star players. Pedro and Busquets were youth players. Piqué occasionally made United bench.

Pep turned that into the dominant side of our generation and inspired Spain's international domination.

The myth that he walked into an easy job is both untrue and frankly moronic

the state that had them reaching semis and finals, not buying that. we knocked them out in 08 and you could already see they had a great great team. we werent too shabby then i may add and they ran us very close

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Mourinho with a lot of money granted built a new side at Chelsea and won the champions league with Porto and Inter, that in itself is an indication of his worth as a manager. As for Ancelotti he had his Milan side that he built. The other two don't come into the equation yet.

The points are very valid, give a manager the teams that Pep has taken over and it's far easier than taking over teams that need rebuilding.

Barcelona have bombed under Martino.

Pretty sure Compelling and Hammersmith are sat at computers next to each other.

They beat Celtic and Schalke to get to the Semi final. At which point Rikjaard was told he had to win the CL or he'd be sacked.

They really were in a state. They were 18 points off the title, signed what seemed to be a flop in Henry... I don't know how you can claim that Barca side was fine, but think Bayern needs a change

Must be a wall between them. They'll headbutt their way through it eventually.

may i also add that pep did all this in a year? my arse! the 08 was a great team that was only just beaten by a very very good team in united 08 squad. next season they went onto win it and all those problems were solved in a year. youth players suddenly weren't youth players?

Guardiola's record as a manager, not bad for 5 years work:

Barcelona
La Liga: 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11
Copa del Rey: 2008–09, 2011–12
Supercopa de España: 2009, 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League: 2008–09, 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup: 2009, 2011
FIFA Club World Cup: 2009, 2011


Bayern Munich
Bundesliga: 2013–14
UEFA Super Cup: 2013
FIFA Club World Cup: 2013

2010-11 Peps Barca were the best IMO.

But really if you're arguing Rikjaard left a great side for Pep you're wrong. If 5 CL semis, 4 League Titles and 2 CLs makes you overrated then you need to evaluate your standards.

Madrid 4-0 - Ronaldo FK under the wall

compelling and rich wrote:may i also add that pep did all this in a year? my arse! the 08 was a great team that was only just beaten by a very very good team in united 08 squad. next season they went onto win it and all those problems were solved in a year. youth players suddenly weren't youth players?

This makes no sense   

The perfect ending for Madrid. Class freekick from the best player in the world.

ronaldinho wasnt even in the team in 08

a team that consisted of xavi, inestia, messi, yaya toure, zambrotta, puyol, eto, deco with thuram, henry on the bench.

yeah that was a rubbish squad that was    

AberdeenSteve wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:may i also add that pep did all this in a year? my arse! the 08 was a great team that was only just beaten by a very very good team in united 08 squad. next season they went onto win it and all those problems were solved in a year. youth players suddenly weren't youth players?

This makes no sense   

it was in response to gsc comments that pep had a team in turmoil which within a year he apprantely turned into champions league winners. read it again it should, makes perfect sense to me

Ronaldinho didn't play because he was "injured".

In reality the club was done with him for off the field behaviour

Sheer carnage from Madrid tonight. Counter attacking football at its finest. Pace, power and precision. Give me that over tika taka everyday. That's the type of football I believe giggs is trying to bring back to utd, all be it with players of a far lesser standard to say the least. Class from Madrid, hope thy go on and win it

Anyway HH and C&R idiocy aside, brilliant performance from Madrid. Carlo the underrated manager of his generation. He's brought balance Mourinho couldn't find. Bayern, it all verged into pointless possession territory. Something for Pep to correct.

compelling and rich wrote:

AberdeenSteve wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:may i also add that pep did all this in a year? my arse! the 08 was a great team that was only just beaten by a very very good team in united 08 squad. next season they went onto win it and all those problems were solved in a year. youth players suddenly weren't youth players?

This makes no sense   

it was in response to gsc comments that pep had a team in turmoil which within a year he apprantely turned into champions league winners. read it again it should, makes perfect sense to me

I think people forget how good we were in 08 and we didn't beat them by parking the bus, we were just better and at the time had the best defence in the world contained in a team set up to perfection every game. The treble of 99 will be remembered as Fergies greatest season but in 08 we were impregnable as well as being deadly on the front foot. We conceded a mere 30 goals across the 55 games we played in the big three trophies.

The team that ran us close that year was not a team in turmoil, they were inconsistent yes and need a little bit of fine tuning but they didn't require a massive rebuilding.

GSC wrote:Anyway HH and C&R idiocy aside, brilliant performance from Madrid. Carlo the underrated manager of his generation. He's brought balance Mourinho couldn't find. Bayern, it all verged into pointless possession territory. Something for Pep to correct.

idiocy because we disagree with your opinion, wipe that chip of your shoulder. i have already shown you the squad pep inherited. cant imagine anyone with any sense thinks that was a poor squad

Its not really worth comparing Pep to Clough/Ferguson. They're living in different worlds.

Truths somewhere in the middle for pep.

Squad had problems but he had a peak xavi and iniesta and messi who rikjard had been playing since he was a 16 year old.

He needed a right back and spent the most ever on a fullback to land Alves then chucked those who weren't behaving or training.

Let's not forget he bought ibra and failed to use him and spent 30 million on chyrgrnski who barely got a look in.

 Some people just want to hate. Your entire argument that pep inherited a ready made dominant side is based on them playing well in a loss over 2 legs.

If you really think you could plug any coach into that situation and get the same result then really there's no point in responding, since you won't listen to reason and set upon putting Pep down.

Pep harnessed the talents of Xavi and Iniesta in a way nobody else would've. He built his team to get the best of Messis talents.

Nobody else would've produced that team or result. It was a perfect storm

Was always hard for Pep to maintain the standard Bayern had set last year. They were never going to match it, let along supress it.
The players lose a bit of motivation too having won everything the previous year.

Could have a CL final between managers sacked by the opposing club

Guardiola's Barcelona treated me to the best football I have ever seen in my 36 year existence.

The Milan side of the late 80's and early 90's was a machine - tactically perfect. The Ajax team of the mid 90's was a joy to watch but Pep's Barca trumps them both. If that doesn't make him a good manager then so be it. I'll live through it I'm sure.

But to say that his achievements were handed to him on a plate is ridiculous. The Barca side of 08-11 will be forever remembered. Pep deserves his props.

It depends how highly you rate him. He's never had a hard job, anyway.

The only easy job in football is Celtic

You know what I meant. Although I did make it sound supremely sexual

dolph weve been over that apprantley that barca team he inherited was awful and he is in fact the messiah that got the best out of awful players like messi, xavi and inestia

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:You know what I meant. Although I did make it sound supremely sexual

After a 2 year dry spell it certainly worked on me Dolphus!

There is a substantial difference between what Pep inherited and what Tito (RIP) inherited. I don't believe anyone's called that Barca team poor, however it was nowhere near the levels Pep got it to. Levels that frankly nobody else would've got it to.

Levels like Riijkaard had previously got it to.

Sorry, Rikjaards side never reached the level of Peps. A very good side at times no doubt, but not on the same level and certainly not at the end

GSC wrote:There is a substantial difference between what Pep inherited and what Tito (RIP) inherited. I don't believe anyone's called that Barca team poor, however it was nowhere near the levels Pep got it to. Levels that frankly nobody else would've got it to.

Quite impossible to tell, especially as he couldnt rebuild the side and hasnt done anything of note so far at Bayern (of note doesnt mean he hasnt won a title, I mean anything truly notable). Hes obviously a good coach, but he walked into a strong set up in a perfect situation for him. (What with his background and a board now willing to strip some assets for the greater good.)

Circumstances are huge in management. But I don't think Pep is as good a coach as Ancelotti for example.

One could argue his first job was rebuilding the Barca side.

Time will tell ultimately, he remains just 5 years into his managerial career. But his success within those 5 years, and style in doing so, can't be dismissed.

rikjaard didnt have the luxury of having a prime messi and inestia yet still won the champions league, two of the greatest players of this generation. would they been that far away if you swapped them?

pep got the best out of these two yes but the majority of there development was done pre pep, he was extremely lucky to have these two available to him

Nah he had to make do with prime Ronaldinho, Deco, Eto'o etc in that run

Pep has TWO champions leagues. Think you'll find the list crappy managers with two Medals painfully short.