Glasgow Warriors v Ulster Rugby, 18 April

First topic message reminder :

Glasgow Warriors v Ulster Rugby  

Friday 18 April 2014, KO 19:35
Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow

Referee: John Lacey (IRFU, 34th competition game)
Assistant Referees: David Changleng, Graeme Marshall (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Montgomery (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)

Live on BBC ALBA/NI

A. Teams:

I. Glasgow

15 Murchie
14 Maitland
13 Bennett
12 Horne
11 Seymour
10 Russell
09 Cusiter

08 Wilson
07 Fusaro
06 Strauss
05 Gray
04 Swinson
03 Welsh
02 Hall
01 Reid

16 MacArthur
17 Grant
18 Cross
19 Nakarawa
20 Harley
21 Matawalu
22 Jackson
23 Vernon

II. Ulster

15 R Andrew
14 T Bowe
13 D Cave
13 L Marshall
11 A Trimble
10 P Jackson
09 P Marshall

1 T Court
2 R Herring
3 R Lutton
4 J Muller (Captain)
5 I Henderson
6 C Henry
7 S Doyle
8 N Williams

16 N Annett
17 A Warwick
18 D Fitzpatrick
19 L Stevenson
20 M McComish
21 M Heaney
22 J McKinney
23 C Gilroy

B. Form - head to head:

28 Played 28
12 Wins 15
15 Losses 12
1 Draws 1
44 Tries 49
30 Conversions 31
66 Penalties 75
7 Drop Goals 2
499 Points 538
25 Avg. Age 25

C. Form - this season & last:

Fri 31 August 2012, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 18 - 10 Glasgow Warriors
Ravenhill

Fri 22 February 2013, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 20 - 14 Ulster Rugby
Scotstoun

Fri 13 September 2013, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors
Ravenhill

RDW_Scotland wrote:No way was that ball grounded, but we'll take it!

You shouldn't take it. Its not good for the game to allow idiocy from referees and TMOs to stand.

Notch wrote:We now have the final year of Anscombes contract to reassess the coaching structure. This has been an unacceptable season.

Ah come on Notch, a coach can't be held to account for the injury crisis we face. We are comfortably in the playoffs with a few games left. Which would have been a very strong position without the injury crisis.

Bring on niko!

Gutted its uncontested scrums

Even as a Glasgow fan I would have to say that was soft!

Right. Two questions.

Do ulster have 15 men on?
Is it uncontested scrums?

Ulster have 14 men.

When the ball is probably grounded but it isn't 100% clear it isn't a try. When the ball is clearly not grounded it is a try. Who is this TMO and where in Glasgow did he grow up?

clivemcl wrote:

Notch wrote:We now have the final year of Anscombes contract to reassess the coaching structure. This has been an unacceptable season.

Ah come on Notch, a coach can't be held to account for the injury crisis we face. We are comfortably in the playoffs with a few games left. Which would have been a very strong position without the injury crisis.

No we aren't comfortably in the playoffs just yet at all. There is every chance we will now miss out on the playoffs unless Munster or the Ospreys slip up. Our target is home HC quarter-final, home Pro12 semi-final if we don't achieve that target we need to assess why not and move forward.

We have an injury crisis every season, maybe it's time we realised we can't get by with such a small squad.

Tonight has been a disgraceful performance from Ulster, we've just been less focused and less committed than the opposition in a make or break game.

Yeah I wouldn't be blaming Anscombe for our situation at the minute. Some of the calls tonight are at best baffling. That said even if the officiating hadn't been dodgy I think Glasgow would have been a fair bit too much for us

Holy crap Maitland is fast!

Glasgow will make 2nd now. Specially if they get the BP. 

SFs
Leinster v Ulster/ Ospreys
Glasgow v Munster.


Final.
Leinster v Glasgow.

Glasgkw need the 4th try for such dominance - Munster or Leinster would in this situation

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can we sign a backup hooker who can throw a ball straight!!!

Agree with that Clive. I rate Herring but too often since Christmas our lineout has been poor

Congrats, Glasgow.

TMO was a joke, but Glasgow worth the win regardless.

Terrible performance from Ulster. Absolutely disgusted by that display. Major questions over the future of the coaching staff.

Good win, disappointing not to get the bonus point. Still game in hand and Edinburgh, Treviso & Zebre to play. Things are looking good

RDW_Scotland wrote:Glasgkw need the 4th try for such dominance - Munster or Leinster would in this situation

Ja man. Thats what their next step up is...  Being ruthless when in control. 

Love the club. Fans Rock too.
Just need more of em.

I just don't understand it, a City with  2 x mediocre soccerball teams, pulling in 50,000 at home.  It would take but just a few 1000 from each, hopefully most with a mad passionate brain like De Schiz,  to fill that ground every week. It should be full every week. How grand would that be?


Well done Glasgow.

Believe.

Well done Glasgow, deserved. - but cool your jets, don't have us remind you of our injury list plus the additions to the list during tonight's game...   

We have 1 clive his name is Annett not Herring though
Well done Glasgow started slowly but when you guys got going you deserved that for your defence and pure belief to keep going to the corner there.
From an Ulster perspective Henderson and Andrew played reasonably well but the team as a whole was very very poor.
Luck was also not with us the injuries to the front row you just cannot gameplan for 3 props in a game going off injured or about 10 players in 2 weeks. The backs are reasonably intact but the forwards have just been decimated and you have to think with games v Munster and Leinster if we cannot get some players of that injury list we will struggle to make the play offs.

The great unwashed can be hugely impressive when they want to be.

Not many TBPs this season though...

A fantastic match, lived up to our expectations although I feel Bennett was very lucky with his try, to say the least.
We still need to turn our game in hand into 5 points. Oh wait it's the annual slaughter of the effeminates against the MFL. What could go wrong?

Ah let's congratulate a good team playing good rugby Clive. Fully deserved the win tonight. I am trying to be calm about the officiating in that second half which I felt went a decent bit towards deciding the game but at the same time I have to remind myself that Glasgows YC in the first half looked harsh and they stuck at it and got the try. Wg needed things to go right for us tonight and they didn't.

I'm not convinced a change in coaching is needed at the minute to be honest notch. its disappointing because the crisis we had around December/February last year has hit us at the worst possible time.

Ulster unlucky with the TMO calls but Glasgow were the better side on the night, the defence is simply awe inspiring, everybody throwing themselves in, even the lightweights like Russell and Seymour. The team spirit is unbelievable as well, they really are a team playing for each other.

Whisper it quietly as well, Scotland may finally have found themselves a fly half. First start for Finn Russell, he looked like he had been playing there all his life. Here is a lad who know how to take his chances!

In fairness Stand, lots of refs take the Williams decision and ask 'i there any reason not to award the try?' (Again why can't IRB be clear with refs on what they should ask), and the Glasgow try was... well... not a try.

These two things might have kept the game tight enough for the players to keep their spirit and fight up in the last quarter.

I do reckon we could have challenged in that game - some of our attack in first half was decent enough.

yellow for Doyle and injuries screwed us well and truely though.

But Glasgow were good, as you would expect a top four team to be against a team falling apart.

So happy that was a great performance from Glasgow similar to last week against Munster. Strauss was immense once again but he will need a rest as Glasgow are going to play 8 or 9 games in as many weeks because of the postponned games.

Feel sorry for Ulster fans, after getting robbed in the Heineken cup, they probably won't get a home semi in the rabo.

Standulstermen wrote:I'm not convinced a change in coaching is needed at the minute to be honest notch. its disappointing because the crisis we had around December/February last year has hit us at the worst possible time.

All the issues that were issues when Anscombe came in are still issues. We're still making stupid errors, we're still too soft in defence. And we now have a year left of his contract to plan for his successor.

We need to seize the opportunity to build a legacy of success by identifying someone who can take us onto the next level like how Schmidt took Leisnter on, and time is on our side. We have the whole of next season to search.

BigGee wrote:Whisper it quietly as well, Scotland may finally have found themselves a fly half. First start for Finn Russell, he looked like he had been playing there all his life. Here is a lad who know how to take his chances!

Haha, my rugby mad neighbour from a few doors down just came round to say the very same.

Well done Glasgow.

Excellent display especially at the breakdown.

We were pretty poor at times when we had 15 men on the pitch so I'd say you guys will be a bit disappointed not to get the TBP.

It mattered not a jot to the result but how on earth was that try awarded? Surely the very fact that the TMO went back to look for obstruction showed he had decided there was no try? Did Lacey actually mishear him or something?

As I said, no difference to the result. Well earned by Glasgow!

Hard luck Ulster, you guys can feel hard done to over the Bennet try. The look of surprise on his face when it was given. Glasgow the better team on the night, if a little panicky at times. Ulster deserved a LBP.

clivemcl wrote:In fairness Stand, lots of refs take the Williams decision and ask 'i there any reason not to award the try?' (Again why can't IRB be clear with refs on what they should ask), and the Glasgow try was... well... not a try.

These two things might have kept the game tight enough for the players to keep their spirit and fight up in the last quarter.

I do reckon we could have challenged in that game - some of our attack in first half was decent enough.

yellow for Doyle and injuries screwed us well and truely though.

But Glasgow were good, as you would expect a top four team to be against a team falling apart.

No issue with the Williams non-try Clive. Seymours try came from a penalty against Luke Marshall 5metres out that was a textbook steal. Textbook. If you were to look up a manual for what a good 7 is supposed to do it would have been there and he gets pinged for playing the ball on the ground, whilst on his feet?? That's a puzzler for me.

It wasn't all one way mind you. I don't think Lacey is good enough quite simply. He pinged Cusiter at the end for offside when he was behind the player who knocked on. Anyway that's just whinging. The better team one and good luck to them. They should go on and get a home semi now and they will be a handful for anyone

GLove39 wrote:

BigGee wrote:Whisper it quietly as well, Scotland may finally have found themselves a fly half. First start for Finn Russell, he looked like he had been playing there all his life. Here is a lad who know how to take his chances!

Haha, my rugby mad neighbour from a few doors down just came round to say the very same.

The most impressive thing about him and lets be honest there was lots of impressive stuff; kicking goals, distribution, fearless tackling amongst others has to be his temperament. He was smiling running onto the pitch and clearly has the great self belief that all good players have. When was the last time we saw that in a Scottish FH, probably when his boss GT was wearing the shirt!

Notch wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:I'm not convinced a change in coaching is needed at the minute to be honest notch. its disappointing because the crisis we had around December/February last year has hit us at the worst possible time.

All the issues that were issues when Anscombe came in are still issues. We're still making stupid errors, we're still too soft in defence. And we now have a year left of his contract to plan for his successor.

We need to seize the opportunity to build a legacy of success by identifying someone who can take us onto the next level like how Schmidt took Leisnter on, and time is on our side. We have the whole of next season to search.

We have the second best defence in the league or at least we did going into this game. We had the best defence in Europe through the pool stages. I don't think defence is an issue. I don't mind supposing we are looking to bring in a new coach after next season that's fair enough I think. We do make some stupid errors but we have just had a disastrous few weeks without any luck. If we were facing a home semi final next week with a few less injuries I suspect a lot of people would have a different mood.

Humph does need to sit down and think about what he wants from the next coach and hopefully we get a goodun but as for right now I just want the season to finish tomorrow

Well done Glasgow - the only professional side on show tonight.

Ulster showed that they can't cope without Afoa, Pienaar and Payne. More importantly than that, this is the first game that I've questioned Anscombe's coaching, yes there are injuries but in a must win game for Ulster there was no structure or plan. The optional approach to tackling continued into the second half - Ulster know Lacey is a terrible referee so by now they should have realised how to play him a bit better.

On this form Ulster don't deserve to be in the playoffs and maybe it's time Doak was given the remaining two games to see if he has enough to be building on next season.

I don't think Lacey is a readable ref Aukster. I will cite the Luke Marshall example again (or Cusiter) but what can you do in those situations.

That said I don't see who or what we can do now to change things. Is Anscombe at Schmidts level? Hell no but I don't know who would be out there and available to do better or if Doak could.  A fresh face in the team couldn't hurt but that depends on the extent to which muller was coaching the forwards.

Anyway, I will take this into the ulster thread and leave the Glasgow lads to celebrate in peace. I for one will be rooting for you lads. Best of luck

Well, well, well. Much better than I thought in the end. Mind you, I called Williams effort as a try; and Bennett's as no try. Also I think Glasgow were lucky they didn't go TMO on Seymour's try, as he bounced off the back of the ruck before being forced over. I have seen them ruled out before.

But. Glasgow deserved the win. Looked like the better side on the night. Given both sides at full strength - I don't know, except it would be a great game!

I thought the ref had an excellent game. I thought the Glasgow sin bin harsh - but the ref was consistent and carded ulster for the same offense equally harshly. The ref was consistant and clear and made no serious errors. Thats what we need.

On the two disputed trys - the ulster one not given He probably did get it down but thats not enough. the ref has to be sure he got it down. The ref could not see it, the TMO could not see it. A try cannot be given.
On the Bennet one. If the ref had asked " any reason not to award the try" it should have been given. As he asked "try yes or no" perhaps it should not. But as Bennets hand rolled down the back of the ball was his hand in contact with the ball when the ball was in contact with the ground? That all he needs to do and the TMO decided it was. Remember you do not need downward pressure. You simply need to be in contact with the ball as the ball hits the ground. It looked to me like it was but I think many TMOs would not have given it.

Declan Fitzpatrick suffered heart palpitations out there tonight and has been taken to hospital. Desperately hope that he is ok.

Jesus wept. Puts things in perspective. Give it up Deccie for Gods sake man.

Standulstermen wrote:Ah let's congratulate a good team playing good rugby Clive. Fully deserved the win tonight. I am trying to be calm about the officiating in that second half which I felt went a decent bit towards deciding the game but at the same time I have to remind myself that Glasgows YC in the first half looked harsh and they stuck at it and got the try. Wg needed things to go right for us tonight and they didn't.

I'm not convinced a change in coaching is needed at the minute to be honest notch. its disappointing because the crisis we had around December/February last year has hit us at the worst possible time.

Class from Stand,  as per.    

I dont see how this Weegies side will be stopped. They are so focused and blew away  an up-and-coming  European power tonight.  Even with a hungry Leinster at the RDS. They've been there before, in a SF. And should have won. 

A Leinster v Glasgow PRO12 Final. It would be roysh and fitting.

Has anyone got a clue what Townsend sees his strongest 23 to be? And is it a bad thing if he doesn't have a clue?

A lot of the squad are coming into form just at the right time.

Notch wrote:Declan Fitzpatrick suffered heart palpitations out there tonight and has been taken to hospital. Desperately hope that he is ok.

Jesus, this is happening more and more recently. Are we pushing our heros too far?

Every ref is readable to some extent. Lacey blows at a hint of a breakdown so teams should offload far more. He generally ignores forward passes and offsides unless the crowd make it impossible for him so teams can play flat and close. He will always listen to the assistants which give the home team a big advantage, so discipline is even more important.

Ulster still haven't learnt how to get something from hard games - that's Anscombe's remit. e.g. Ulster were 9-3 in front with Ulster on the 22 and the Glasgow defence set - Jackson should have had a drop goal attempt. Ulster were 20-9 down with over 20 minutes to play - they hadn't scored a point from midway in the first half - Muller should have gone for the posts. There is no understanding in the team that points win matches - it's all about the big plays and glory and that unfortunately is under Anscombe's direction.

When Andrew butchered the try by not making the simple pass to Trimble, I wondered what sort of pressure are these guys under? I don't know if that's Anscombe or not but too often there is glory hunting at the expense of team success.

You are right SU that Glasgow deserve to celebrate because they have a team who play as a team and look as though they are closer to winning something.

Both the cards were a bit harsh, but they were consistent which is probably more important. The Irish prop was very lucky not to get one at the end of the first half and I think the ref realised that he bottled that one and was always going to even things up. I said to my son that we would get one back quickly once play resumed and sure enough it did not take long!

Great result for Glasgow.  Thought Glasgow played well the first ten minutes or so.  Next twenty was dominated by the Visitors, the physicality of Ulster was incredible and being down to 14 we did well to stay in the game.

Second half Ulster couldn't get back to the levels of the first half and Glasgow deserved the win.  Have no idea about the two TMO decisions as being at the game, the paying fans don't get access to screens, which as I have banged on about before is a joke.

Strauss was outstanding as was Fusaro.  In the backs Bennett lived up to the hype and Russell did well.  Cusiter was key as when Ulster came at us hard in the first half, he helped out 10/12/13 like few scrum halves of his size can.

All the best to Fitzpatrick, I hope that he returns to full health asap.

The PRO12 should be well proud of Glasgow. Unlike certain others, until it gets too late,  they take this comp as serious as the French clubs take the TOP14, all year round.

They have targeted this from the start. The HC was just a jolly for them. This, for me, buys them the kudos to go out and win this thing.  

The PRO12 needs teams like Glasgow to succeed.

The Great Aukster wrote:Well done Glasgow - the only professional side on show tonight.

Ulster showed that they can't cope without Afoa, Pienaar and Payne. More importantly than that, this is the first game that I've questioned Anscombe's coaching, yes there are injuries but in a must win game for Ulster there was no structure or plan. The optional approach to tackling continued into the second half - Ulster know Lacey is a terrible referee so by now they should have realised how to play him a bit better.

On this form Ulster don't deserve to be in the playoffs and maybe it's time Doak was given the remaining two games to see if he has enough to be building on next season.

Was beginning to feel the same way about O Connor, Auks, but, I think he just needs more time to lose the shadow of Schmidt. Give them both a wee break, I say.

Ulster would be in the HC SF's only for the Payne incident. That much Im sure of. 

How would the rest feel about him only for that? 

#Fansaresoficklesometimes.

I'm delighted Toonie's bold calls paid off; Russell looked composed and put in a very calm performance, 100% off the tee and a hand in two tries! He needed to show that he could boss a game of this magnitude from 10, and I thought he did just that. Bennett was strong in the tackle and looks really powerful, Maitland and Seymour looked sharp and the pack as a whole went very well.

Can't wait for the Edinburgh match up - I wonder if Toonie will start Jones and Cross?

Screen-grab of Bennetts face after the TMO awarded him his try!  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BliFduDCIAAsNPT.jpg