Glasgow Warriors v Ulster Rugby, 18 April

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Glasgow Warriors v Ulster Rugby  

Friday 18 April 2014, KO 19:35
Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow

Referee: John Lacey (IRFU, 34th competition game)
Assistant Referees: David Changleng, Graeme Marshall (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Montgomery (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)

Live on BBC ALBA/NI

A. Teams:

I. Glasgow

15 Murchie
14 Maitland
13 Bennett
12 Horne
11 Seymour
10 Russell
09 Cusiter

08 Wilson
07 Fusaro
06 Strauss
05 Gray
04 Swinson
03 Welsh
02 Hall
01 Reid

16 MacArthur
17 Grant
18 Cross
19 Nakarawa
20 Harley
21 Matawalu
22 Jackson
23 Vernon

II. Ulster

15 R Andrew
14 T Bowe
13 D Cave
13 L Marshall
11 A Trimble
10 P Jackson
09 P Marshall

1 T Court
2 R Herring
3 R Lutton
4 J Muller (Captain)
5 I Henderson
6 C Henry
7 S Doyle
8 N Williams

16 N Annett
17 A Warwick
18 D Fitzpatrick
19 L Stevenson
20 M McComish
21 M Heaney
22 J McKinney
23 C Gilroy

B. Form - head to head:

28 Played 28
12 Wins 15
15 Losses 12
1 Draws 1
44 Tries 49
30 Conversions 31
66 Penalties 75
7 Drop Goals 2
499 Points 538
25 Avg. Age 25

C. Form - this season & last:

Fri 31 August 2012, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 18 - 10 Glasgow Warriors
Ravenhill

Fri 22 February 2013, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 20 - 14 Ulster Rugby
Scotstoun

Fri 13 September 2013, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors
Ravenhill

GLove39 wrote:Delighted to see that someone posted a screen grab of Bennetts face after the TMO awarded him his try! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BliFduDCIAAsNPT.jpg    

Twas a joke. No way it was a try. We really need to get some higher-level officiating in the PRO12. Or whatever it will be called next year.

But Glasgow were so much better,  it seems trite to even discuss it.

Please excuse me I have only just got back from the pub.

However.

I think that we may have been wrong about Bennett being the messiah, I think that he is more John the Baptist meaning Russell's outstanding performance at OH shows that baby Jebus has had his second coming!

Not that I'm getting ahead of myself or anything like that.

Yesssssssss my sonnnnnnnnnnn .

WE ARE GLASGOW - WE FEAR NO-ONE

Was literally being drawn on with chalk by my 2 year old for most of the first half and posseted on by my 2 month old for almost all of the second, but watched intermittently and saw full highlights today. Naturally, very pleased for the boys although our inability to get the fourth try in these games is likely to cost us a home SF.

Pure class from Ulster fans on these threads, as usual, so thanks for that.

Glad that the Bennett try didn't decide the game, because it was an appalling decision. To his credit, Bennett was as surprised as anyone and it was a try borne of a bad TMO decision rather than a sales process from the player. It wasn't the grounding that bothered me, it was the fact he was short of the line. The Williams try looked more clear cut - Pat MacArthur seemed to be clearly wrapped underneath the ball.

I thought that we were looking at 5, maybe 6 points from these past 2 games, so to have 8 is very good work. Fully expect Munster to go back to 3rd tonight, but to be looking at:

[th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th][th][/th]

1	Leinster	20	15	1	4	517	319	12	74
2	Ulster	20	14	0	6	431	280	9	65
3	Glasgow	19	15	0	4	355	259	4	64
4	Munster	19	14	0	5	434	285	7	63
5	Ospreys	19	11	1	7	479	328	10	56

with the two Italian sides and Edinburgh to come gives us the best possible swing at a home semi.

Very proud.

As for Finn, I am saying nothing, lest I be accused of gloating or regional/club partisanship.

But I did tell you he could play.  

Then I say it George, Finn Russell looked like the real deal tonight. I'd certainly like to think if he continues like that he should get a chance for Scotland in the summer.

He was excellent. The returning Horne was very good too. I also thought Reid had a good game.

Morning chaps and MFLs, I have to say I slept a lot better last night than the night before!

Some thoughts:

1) What a game!
I had predicted a high-scoring free-flowing extravaganza, but what we got was infinitely better - a no-holds-barred street fight (it was almost inevitable between these teams) with some outstanding hits and total commitment in defence from both sides.

2) What an atmosphere!
The roar put out by 7,400 supporters of red and white and blue and black was simply outstanding - this was as much a part of the occasion as the match itself. It was great to see so many Ulster supporters over, and they're a lovely bunch. One poor Ulsterman managed to get a seat right in the middle of the season ticket holders in the main stand - he more than made up for his loneliness by being the loudest man there. A bright example for a great club.

3) What players!
Some players really stood out for me last night and deserve a mention.

For Ulster, Ian Henderson was excellent - some great drives, solid defence, and boy oh boy does he have a wicked handoff! I've no doubt he's the future for Ireland.
Andrew, the Ulster fullback, has some serious potential - perhaps I'm being harsh, but he looked so much more interested than Bowe and Trimble. Great runs and very solid under the high ball.
Chris Henry's also excellent, so why was he played at 6? Crazy decision IMO.

For Glasgow, where do I start?
Jonny Gray continues to impress, and it's a shame we lost a bit of grunt when he went off (still, we'll need him next week for The Slaughter of the Effeminates).
Strauss was my man of the match - there's a glorious anticipation around the crowd when he gets the ball and he never disappoints. I'd make him a glasgow club captain, actually. Just like Visser, I'm now counting down the days until he qualifies for Scotland, as he'll have such an impact on the way we play.

In the backs, Cusiter was consistently excellent - he simply has to start in the playoffs. Why are we letting him go?
Russell just looks so self-assured on the ball and when kicking at goal, it's like he's been playing for three seasons or more - consider, that was only his second start in that position. Scary.
While we know about (and write psalms about) his attacking prowess, Mark Bennett has really impressed me with his defence this year. He tackles very effectively and deceptively strong. Also, THAT RUN. He's still the messiah in my eyes, but when he leaves us too soon (in two seasons, to Toulon) it will fall to St Peter (Russell) to build a church for the world to follow and for Dan Brown to write crappy books about.
It was great to see Peter Horne doing so well on his return - he's not at full form or fitness yet, but unless we're playing against a really big midfield, we won't miss Dunbar too much (incidentally, is he injured or resting). Also Horne's handling was brilliant, particularly in catching that tough pass from Bennett.

All in all, a good performance.

I'll write something later on what I wasn't happy with, but right now I'm just too chipper.

IanBru wrote:Morning chaps and MFLs, I have to say I slept a lot better last night than the night before!

Some thoughts:

1) What a game!
I had predicted a high-scoring free-flowing extravaganza, but what we got was infinitely better - a no-holds-barred street fight (it was almost inevitable between these teams) with some outstanding hits and total commitment in defence from both sides.

2) What an atmosphere!
The roar put out by 7,400 supporters of red and white and blue and black was simply outstanding - this was as much a part of the occasion as the match itself. It was great to see so many Ulster supporters over, and they're a lovely bunch. One poor Ulsterman managed to get a seat right in the middle of the season ticket holders in the main stand - he more than made up for his loneliness by being the loudest man there. A bright example for a great club.

3) What players!
Some players really stood out for me last night and deserve a mention.

For Ulster, Ian Henderson was excellent - some great drives, solid defence, and boy oh boy does he have a wicked handoff! I've no doubt he's the future for Ireland.
Andrew, the Ulster fullback, has some serious potential - perhaps I'm being harsh, but he looked so much more interested than Bowe and Trimble. Great runs and very solid under the high ball.
Chris Henry's also excellent, so why was he played at 6? Crazy decision IMO.

For Glasgow, where do I start?
Jonny Gray continues to impress, and it's a shame we lost a bit of grunt when he went off (still, we'll need him next week for The Slaughter of the Effeminates).
Strauss was my man of the match - there's a glorious anticipation around the crowd when he gets the ball and he never disappoints. I'd make him a glasgow club captain, actually. Just like Visser, I'm now counting down the days until he qualifies for Scotland, as he'll have such an impact on the way we play.

In the backs, Cusiter was consistently excellent - he simply has to start in the playoffs. Why are we letting him go?
Russell just looks so self-assured on the ball and when kicking at goal, it's like he's been playing for three seasons or more - consider, that was only his second start in that position. Scary.
While we know about (and write psalms about) his attacking prowess, Mark Bennett has really impressed me with his defence this year. He tackles very effectively and deceptively strong. Also, THAT RUN. He's still the messiah in my eyes, but when he leaves us too soon (in two seasons, to Toulon) it will fall to St Peter (Russell) to build a church for the world to follow and for Dan Brown to write crappy books about.
It was great to see Peter Horne doing so well on his return - he's not at full form or fitness yet, but unless we're playing against a really big midfield, we won't miss Dunbar too much (incidentally, is he injured or resting). Also Horne's handling was brilliant, particularly in catching that tough pass from Bennett.

All in all, a good performance.

I'll write something later on what I wasn't happy with, but right now I'm just too chipper.

i completely agree re russell. hes still 21 and looks like having a lot more potential than weir heathcote or jackson. however we shall see.....   

his nz trip is probably paying off

out of interest - when is struass sq ?

and what has happened to cusack i thought he was back from injury ? crooked again ?

I think Strauss is SQ'd around World Cup time, I think it may be just after.

Cusack isn't injured, he seems to have picked up an illness.

I Bru - there were no failures in blue and black last night.  In the Scout Hall we were trying to work out the MoM but everyone (out of 9 persons) had a difficulty agreeing and had different selection.   Reid, Welsh, Swinson, Gray, Strauss, Fusaro, Wilson, Russell, Cusiter, Bennett, Maitland and Seymour all outstanding,    Peter Horne had a belter too and as IB stated is not fully fit but he showed some of what we have been missing.   And the cameo from Big Naka when he flag waved the ball in his mighty right paw then swapped it to his left to do likewise - Shade Munro must have had his head in his hands tbh.   Also the blind panic induced by Mad McMata' wee cameo performance, in the Ulster defence, every time he got the ball ,was something to perceive.    

BTW my MoM - Tim Swinson

cakeordeath wrote:I think Strauss is SQ'd around World Cup time, I think it may be just after.

Cusack isn't injured, he seems to have picked up an illness.

just checked.

he is qualifed to play for Scotland on the three-year residency rule on 19 September, 2015, a day after the Rugby World Cup kicks off.   

alive555 wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:I think Strauss is SQ'd around World Cup time, I think it may be just after.

Cusack isn't injured, he seems to have picked up an illness.

just checked.

he is qualifed to play for Scotland on the three-year residency rule on 19 September, 2015, a day after the Rugby World Cup kicks off.   

So, he can be included in the squad. Not saying he should walk into the team, but.....

Well if Strauss does not walk into the RWC squad there had better be a bloody Kieren Reid type keeping him out !

Fantastic result for the boys. The lack of bonus points in the last two games has got to be a worry, however having said that, hats off to Andrew Trimble for that huge try saving tackle towards the end.

Glasgow deserved the win last night and Ulster deserved the win earlier in the season, the fact that Ulster fans have endured defeats each time and yet still are good sports about it deserves some recognition. True rugby fans.   

I wouldn't complain at all about the lack of try bonus point, to score 3 tries against Munster and Ulster is a massive achievement and if the defense stays this strong, it is enough for a comfortable (ish) win, as long as Glasgow win their remaining games it is a home semi.

VinceWLB wrote:I wouldn't complain at all about the lack of try bonus point, to score 3 tries against Munster and Ulster is a massive achievement and if the defense stays this strong, it is enough for a comfortable (ish) win, as long as Glasgow win their remaining games it is a home semi.

Exactly, we need to stay real about this, we should not really be expecting to score bonus points winning against Munster (away) and Ulster. If we miss the home play offs by a point or two it will be because we too our eyes off the ball against Dragons!

That needs to be a warning for the next three games, none of them are won until they are won. Bonus points are nice, but far more important to win the game first. The road to heaven is paved with banana skins after all!

I'd be uncomfortable with Strauss walking straight into the squad and earn his first cap in the world cup.

We're very strong in the back row and wouldn't go down well in the squad if he just swans in and takes their place!

He is a beast though.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'd be uncomfortable with Strauss walking straight into the squad and earn his first cap in the world cup.

We're very strong in the back row and wouldn't go down well in the squad if he just swans in and takes their place!

He is a beast though.

He is not going to Swan in, its not like he is straight off the boat! He will have been playing in Glasgow for 3 years by then and everyone knows he is coming. We may be strong in the back row, but we hardly dominate other teams there and we can definitely get stronger, the others will know what they are up against. If he is eligible then he should be picked, he is a very good player that we can't afford to ignore.

He's not been grafting with the Scotland squad for 3 years though, and I dont think anyone should get their first cap in the world cup.

RDW_Scotland wrote:He's not been grafting with the Scotland squad for 3 years though, and I dont think anyone should get their first cap in the world cup.

whats grafting got do do with it ?

he been signed as a project player = big investment by sru.

which means if hes good enough hes getting picked and hes playing. 1st cap or 100th does not matter a jot   

RDW_Scotland wrote:He's not been grafting with the Scotland squad for 3 years though, and I dont think anyone should get their first cap in the world cup.

"grafting" - can you remind me who exactly has been "grafting" ? I must have missed something !

Was meaning grafting for Scotland in terms of how well it will go down with the other players.

Also worth mentioning that there's a huge step up from the level of rugby he's been playing to the intensity of world cup games. Some players struggle at first to make the step up. I'd be surprised if he was on of them, but would it not be better to have seasoned internationalists like Beattie, Brown, Denton, strokosh etc instead of a guy in his first or second cap playing in crucial matches against Samoa and SA?

I think he's a fantastic player but just don't think his first taste of international rugby should be a hugely important world cup.

IanBru wrote:
Chris Henry's also excellent, so why was he played at 6? Crazy decision IMO.

The only four back rows we have fit right now are three opensides and a number 8. All our blindsides are injured.

Strauss is a force of nature- will walk into the team and immediately improve it - at 6 or 8. For example play The Warriors 23 v a Scotland 15 (?) - do you honestly think Stroker and Denton are better that Strauss. Beattie is a good player as is Wilson(he will play for The Ws) but really Strauss is so far ahead. He is also a real pack leader and with JG and TS will smash the living daylights put of the MFLs next Saturday   

Also, the above mentioned players will have played 10-15 games with Vern Cotter - his defensive strategy, set piece organizations, attack and team tactics. They will have tested those tactics at the highest level against top SH teams in the AIs and in the brutal environment that is the 6N. Not to mention 4 warm up games pre world cup.

Strauss will have experienced none of that, and would have to learn all of it in one of two games!

Paterson started his international career at the World Cup in 99. (Albeit he only played v Spain) So it can be done.
But agree that Strauss would have a lot to learn, all very well doing so in training but another thing in a test match. Still the games against the US & probably Japan could be a great way for him to get started.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Also, the above mentioned players will have played 10-15 games with Vern Cotter - his defensive strategy, set piece organizations, attack and team tactics. They will have tested those tactics at the highest level against top SH teams in the AIs and in the brutal environment that is the 6N. Not to mention 4 warm up games pre world cup.

Strauss will have experienced none of that, and would have to learn all of it in one of two games!

he can train with the team cant he ? training and playing not the same !

remember the training squad is more than the final playing squad.

by your logic even if hes the best player we have in his position he wont get a game based on the fact (1) hes not yet capped., and (2) we are not going to pick a new cap for a game as important as those at wc 2015.?

sorry that sounds like the sort of plan our former coaches would execute.   

Training and playing is vastly different.

Well said Alive   

I appreciate when I'm fighting a losing battle raising this on a Glasgow thread,but there's no way any amount of training will make up for starting your international career in a world cup!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I appreciate when I'm fighting a losing battle raising this on a Glasgow thread,but there's no way any amount of training will make up for starting your international career in a world cup!

I suspect you might find this one a losing battle even if this was a Scotland or an Edinburgh thread!

We'll see.

I hope that Strauss will end up being the missing link that transforms our team, abd will be significantly better in his first caps than anyone more experienced in the squad, but I just don't think the world cup is the best place to find that out!

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Well said Alive   

thanku . common sense i would have thought !

i mean the guys been signed with a view to playing at wc 2015. credit where credit is due. even the numpties at the sru must have planned for that.  

Anyway rumour has it cotter, being a no nonsense type of character, is likely to take a pretty pragmatic view to selections . unlike johnson   

ie best players in specialist positions play end of.

out off form your out, if your new and the best in your position then ur in.

BUT no more free lunch   

i expect there are going to be somewhat a changing of the guard taking place between now and next wc.

RDW_Scotland wrote:We'll see.

I hope that Strauss will end up being the missing link that transforms our team, and will be significantly better in his first caps than anyone more experienced in the squad, but I just don't think the world cup is the best place to find that out!

I think Bluto is an excellent 6, and a very good 8, not really a seven though.
So; Kellybrows 6, Strokes, Dozer, Harley. I think it's down to Kellybrows 6 or Bluto.
At 8; Beattie, Wilson, Dozer then Bluto. In order of preference.
At 7; Fozzie, Rennie and Barclay are all better sevens i.e. specialist sevens not Kellybrows 6 type sevens.
So, I am genuinely very keen to see Bluto in Scotland jersey but I think it'll be at 6 which raises interesting questions over the captaincy and Kellybrows future. Given the kicks in the teeth he was given during the 6N's how will he feel if Bluto is parachuted in to his position? (6 since you ask Mr Johnson). All of which makes the summer tour very significant: I am hoping Fern Cotton will start with a clean slate/year zero mentality and tell everyone they are playing for their futures FROM NOW ON. I know a lot of players will be unavailable for the tour and I hope they then feel they have to work twice as heard to catch Fern's eye as a result.

p.s. Just watched the MFL, they were dire Again. You just know they are going to go all Jekyll and Hyde next week and play us off the park.  

Whilst it may be depressing from a local talent perspective, Strauss and Du Preez will probably walk straight in when they qualify. Yes, we are strong in the back row, but as an Edinburgh fan I'd rate Du Preez over Denton, and I'd rate Strauss over Harley and Wilson at the soap dodgers.

I do sympathise with RDWs view about the difficulty slotting in a player at the World Cup. It'll clearly require work so as not to dent morale. If he goes I assume one of Harley, Denton, Beattie, Brown or Strokosch will miss out, which could be a tough call. Still, he is an excellent player and will be a very welcome addition to the playing pool, even after Du Preez makes him his bitch next weekend.

"Dent morale" - are you feckin mental - How low can it get ?! Scotland under Johnso / Robinson are No 12 in the World ffs !

Schiz, take Rob Harley as an example. He's been fighting hard on the edges of the Scotland squad for 2 seasons. He is unquestionably Scottish, just look at the lad, ugly and ginger. Say Brown is injured next summer and Harley finally gets a shot, but rather than getting to play in the World Cup, no doubt a career ambition, Strauss gets parachuted in ahead of him, without ever having had to prove himself at international level. Were I Harley I'd be pretty cheesed off to say the least, and I'm sure that a few in the Scotland camp would agree with him.

It really isn't as simple as you make out. Yes, Strauss is a better player, but Cotter will have to handle this carefully. Players like Wilson, Strokosch and Harley are going to be making way for Strauss and eventually Du Preez as well.

I think that might be the case if this was a Brendan Laney moment and he was straight off the plane. He has been here for 3 years, he and Harley are team mates, they all know he is coming. They are professionals as well and know that he is the bench mark in Scotland of a true international back row player.

At the end of the day none of them have the right to play for Scotland. That has been a lot of the problem in the past, when it was easier to get into the team than get out of it! He will have done his due time by the time the world cup comes around and if he is good enough and fit enough should be picked. At the end of the day we need to go in with our best available team.

On the Bennett "try"  Does anyone know which question was asked?  Was it " any reason not to award the try?" or "try yes or no?"  I have had a good look at it.  I think if it was "any reason not to award the try?" then its a good decision.  It looks like as the ball rolled out of his hand the ball touched the ground before his hand lost contact with the ball.  If it was "try yes or no?" its perhaps a bad decision as its not conclusive. It looks pretty clear to me his hand was in contact with the ball as the ball touched the ground. At what point did he lose control? after the ball left his hand completely or as the ball started to roll from his hand?

In the first instance there is no evidence to say it was NOT a try.  In the second there is not enough evidence to be certain

Two screen grabs

Spot on Big Gee.

Also, what people seem to be forgetting is that anyone who has ideas of playing at the WC will need to prove to Cotter that they are the best in their position. If, at the moment, that's Strauss, then Harley, Brown et al will have to train and play even harder to keep ahead.

Also, a year and a half is a long long way away. Anything can happen in between now and then. Injuries, form etc. will undoubtedly play a part before next Autumn.

Try again on the screen grabs - cannae get it to work!

Image1 by TandemJeremy, on Flickr

Image2 by TandemJeremy, on Flickr

Looking at Clermone Auvergne under Vern Cotter, Josh Strauss is his sort of player. he can play equally well at 6 or 8 - Harley and Wilson cannot ( that idiot Johnson tried to ruin a good 8 in playing Ryan Wilson at 6 - he is only just recovering). A place on the bench is therefore as distinct possibility and for the Samoa game can I suggest Barclay, Strauss, Harley at 7, 8, 6.

BigGee and Tattie, I don't disagree that Cotter should at all times pick the best available players, but it is still a situation he'll need to manage carefully. It won't be as straightforward as just ditching incumbents and pick players as soon as they qualify. Some man management skills will be required, to ensure that Harley, Wilson et al stay motivated and continue to improve. We need depth, and can't afford players to drop back if they feel that they have no chance of selection or have been harshly marginalised.

The principle must always be that the best players get picked, but taking a player straight into the World Cup squad will present a man management challenge, make no mistake.

If I were looking at talent and assuming form etc, my back row for Scotland would be Brown at 6, Rennie at 7 and Beattie at 8, with Strauss on the bench. My second choice would then be Strokosch at 6, Barclay at 7 and Denton at 8, with Wilson on the bench.

That is two very strong options to have, and with Harley, Fusaro, Holmes and shortly Du Preez also coming, we'll do just fine in the back row provided Cotter just picks players in the right positions.

I have to agree with RDW on this one (again) - I would personally leave Strauss out of the WC squad - it's not like Visser qualifying on tour in the Pacific Islands; it's an actual world cup. At most I would bring him to train and bed in with the squad and play him against USA/Japan then he is a great (probably) backup should injuries hit - no reason not to have an inexperienced but no doubt talented player as 3rd/4th choice for a world cup, as long as it's not across an entire playing unit (e.g. that applying to all back row players).

I'm a Glasgow supporter, by the way.

In F, agree with your logic but he is the best 6/8 we have(or will have) available to us. So why not play him when available. Chances are it will be The Warriors + token MFL in RWC15 anyway   

whats the difference between strauss and maitland ?

maitland signed for glasgow in end 2012, and played first cap for scotland vs england in feb 2013 ?

so he had a total of a handful glasgow games under belt and 10 days training with the scotland squad.

IIRC wasn't that Johnson's first game as coach too, so the entire squad was new to the coach anyway? Kind of a perfect time to bring someone in.

1st game of 6N away to a strong side is, admittedly, the 2nd worst time to introduce a new player to international rugby, though. I do think it's still a jump to a world cup campaign, even if it is in the same country (same country at least for now).

What I don't understand about this, is that Cotter will have between two and four test matches which are solely World Cup warm-up matches and a big part of what they are for is to look at fringe players.

Is Strauss not eligible for the World Cup warm-up games or something? Give him some game time in the warm-up and he'll answer your questions over whether or not he deserves his place. Last World Cup Ireland used over 40 players in the warm-up games.

Notch wrote:What I don't understand about this, is that Cotter will have between two and four test matches which are solely World Cup warm-up matches and a big part of what they are for is to look at fringe players.

Is Strauss not eligible for the World Cup warm-up games or something? Give him some game time in the warm-up and he'll answer your questions over whether or not he deserves his place. Last World Cup Ireland used over 40 players in the warm-up games.

He is not eligible to play for scotland until the day after the WC starts so cannot play in the warmups

Well thats a very easy decision then. Your either available for the whole thing or you aren't and I'd say the same about a player who is ruled out of the warm-ups due to injury, unless they were absolutely irreplaceable.