Amlin Challenge Cup - First Semi-Final

Friday 25th April, 20:00 Franklin's Gardens


Northampton Saints V Harlequins


Team News:

Saints look to rest a handfull of players with the Premiership Run-in and play-offs in mind. Quins bring back Charlie Walker and Joe Marler following injury but lose Nick Evans to a knee knock.

Saints:

15 James WILSON
14 Jamie ELLIOTT
13 George PISI
12 Tom STEPHENSON
11 George NORTH
10 Stephen MYLER
9 Kahn FOTUALI'I
1 Alex WALLER
2 Ross MCMILLAN
3 Salesi MA’AFU
4 Samu MANOA
5 James CRAIG
6 Calum CLARK
7 Phil DOWSON (capt)
8 Sam DICKINSON

Replacements
16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Gareth DENMAN
18 Tom MERCEY
19 Courtney LAWES
20 Tom WOOD
21 Ryan GLYNN
22 Luther BURRELL
23 Tom COLLINS


Quins:

15. Mike Brown
14. Charlie Walker
13. Tim Molenaar
12. Jordan Turner-Hall
11. Sam Smith
10. Ben Botica
9. Danny Care

1. Joe Marler
2. Dave Ward
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Charlie Matthews
5. George Robson
6. Luke Wallace
7. Chris Robshaw (C)
8. Nick Easter

16. Rob Buchanan
17. Mark Lambert
18. Paul Doran Jones
19. Tom Guest
20. Maurie Fa'asavalu
21. Karl Dickson
22. Louis Grimoldby
23. Ollie Lindsay-Hague


Officials:


Referee George Clancy (Ireland)
Touch Judge 1 John Lacey (Ireland)
Touch Judge 2 Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Fourth Official David Wilkinson (Ireland)
TMO Jim Yuille (Scotland)
Citing Commissioner Eugene Ryan (Ireland)

Difficult to call this one.
At Franklins Gardens so you have to back to home side really, but Mallinder has rested or benched a lot of his key guys!

C'mon Quins   

I would like to think that Quins are bigger then one player, but sadly recent history does show otherwise. Too often without Nev we've looked a shadow of ourselves so i'm a little worried.

On the other hand that centre combo is working very well, we have a very good pack and Care has been on top form so far. Oh and our back three for the first time this season looks dangerous.

We have no excuses not to win.

yappysnap wrote:
We have no excuses not to win.

Don't show this to Charlie Walker

http://www.lerugbynistere.fr/videos/video-premiership-en-mode-air-plaquage-charlie-walker-passer-dessus-george-north-0501141447.php

Ah yes, not his finest hour. But doens't his hair look good while he's missing that tackle...

A Timotei moment

He's probably brand ambassador.

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:
We have no excuses not to win.

Don't show this to Charlie Walker

http://www.lerugbynistere.fr/videos/video-premiership-en-mode-air-plaquage-charlie-walker-passer-dessus-george-north-0501141447.php

And don't show the sequel to North. The next time they were one on one, Big George got set to repeat his handoff... and got smashed by Marler coming in from his side.

I was expecting Quins to have an edge as long as Botica maintains the form he had in his cameo on Friday, but we have rarely seen eye to eye with Mr Clancy. Can't call it.

Didn't we win the Amlin with Clancy as ref?

yappysnap wrote:Didn't we win the Amlin with Clancy as ref?

against Stade? Possibly.

I do remember the semi that year with Poite reffing, and the boards exploding with righteous indignation at his policing of the breakdown from Munster fans. For quite a while Quins were the best in Europe at "slowing the ball down" and took full freedom of the latitude offered that day.

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Didn't we win the Amlin with Clancy as ref?

against Stade? Possibly.

I do remember the semi that year with Poite reffing, and the boards exploding with righteous indignation at his policing of the breakdown from Munster fans. For quite a while Quins were the best in Europe at "slowing the ball down" and took full freedom of the latitude offered that day.

There was, as I recall, even more indignation at his disallowing two Munster tries for forward passes. On replay, he was spot on.

I went out there with poorfour junior, expecting to have a fun minibreak in Ireland and hoping not to be too embarrassed by result. Fifteen minutes in I was hoarse from shouting, and I will never forget when O'Gara missed a kick in the 78th minute and the entire row in front of me stood up and filed out in silence. My second favourite rugby memory, after the whole experience of the 2012 AP Final.

Successful away trips are certainly the thing memories are made of. I will always have Paris 2001.

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Didn't we win the Amlin with Clancy as ref?

against Stade? Possibly.

I do remember the semi that year with Poite reffing, and the boards exploding with righteous indignation at his policing of the breakdown from Munster fans. For quite a while Quins were the best in Europe at "slowing the ball down" and took full freedom of the latitude offered that day.

To be fair with Robshaw there we're still one of the best. Certainly we've figured out a few of the refs this season. Problems arise when Robshaw is absent and guys like Easter and Wallace have to do it on their own, que penalties, baffled looks, yellow cards and much upset.

Upsetting Munster was probably one of my happiest moments, there's something about a Munster fan complaining of cheating which warms the heart.   

Poorfour wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:
We have no excuses not to win.

Don't show this to Charlie Walker

http://www.lerugbynistere.fr/videos/video-premiership-en-mode-air-plaquage-charlie-walker-passer-dessus-george-north-0501141447.php

And don't show the sequel to North. The next time they were one on one, Big George got set to repeat his handoff... and got smashed by Marler coming in from his side.

That Joe Marler tackle was a thing of beauty, errr don't read that too quickly or you'll get the wrong idea...

yappysnap wrote:
Upsetting Munster was probably one of my happiest moments, there's something about a Munster fan complaining of cheating which warms the heart.   

Well I know that feeling too

Damned time difference! This is our destiny, men. A season of just holding out with injuries and a mediocre start, followed by end of season heroics and an unforeseen double.

I like the sound of that, and boy wasn't it a mediocre start!?

Though if we lose, Brown might kill someone. Whether it's one of our own or theirs or an innocent bystander is up for grabs

Elliott has been binned for a tackle in the air already.

Awful conditions. 0 -0

Quins struggling at the moment, not the best of starts for Care.

Kicking by both teams has been awful

Interesting a yellow card for the Northampton player for taking out in the air in what was similar to Payne's red a few weeks ago. The player could see Brown coming probably better than Payne could a few weeks ago the only difference seems to be the way Brown landed and that he wasn't down with an injury but the potential for injury was just the same so why only yellow?
This needs to be more consistent the refs and the IRB have set a back for themselves here where things like that now have to be a red.
By the way I did think it was a yellow but I also thought Paynes was a yellow so what do I know.

There's already a thread for this Nathan just thought I would let you know pal   
https://www.606v2.com/t53362-amlin-challenge-cup-first-semi-final

neilthom7 wrote:Interesting a yellow card for the Northampton player for taking out in the air in what was similar to Payne's red a few weeks ago.  The player could see Brown coming probably better than Payne could a few weeks ago the only difference seems to be the way Brown landed and that he wasn't down with an injury but the potential for injury was just the same so why only yellow?
This needs to be more consistent the refs and the IRB have set a back for themselves here where things like that now have to be a red.
By the way I did think it was a yellow but I also thought Paynes was a yellow so what do I know.

The commentators made it pretty clear, it was because he landed on his hip and not his head. They read the IRB clarification out.

A very shaky start by Harlequins though even though they are a man up here at the moment cant seem to get the lineouts right at all

neilthom7 wrote:A very shaky start by Harlequins though even though they are a man up here at the moment cant seem to get the lineouts right at all

Very shaky indeed, Ward's lineout is still a bit dodgy - he seems the same sort of player as tom youngs.

Yeah definately Nathan he will need to get it in gear though on a night like that if Quins want to win this one.
Yeah I heard that Nathan I am just saying if we are going to start judging by the actual injury or where he lands rather than the incident then its going to lead to terrible inconsistency I mean that could easily have flipped just a little further and it would have been on the neck too I don't see how it's any less dangerous just because he was lucky enough to land on his hip instead, still this is a topic for another thread and another day I suspect I'm just enjoying actually being at home to watch the rugby on a Friday evening lol

I see Elliot learned his lesson there and jumped that time oh North is away off that will give Quins a boost

at the moment i can't see Quins winning this, Saints have a strong bench too.

We have our first points 23 minutes in

Care trying to do to much in those conditions.

They do mate and they have started a lot better and that's a try I'd say Saints looking good here.

how can he be offside, i could tell he wasn't on the first view

Yep that's a try and kick is missed 8-0 Saints

Yeah mate the kicker was in the 5 metre line the wing hadn't even crossed the 5 metres when he came into view, easy decision it took them a long time to make

Saints all over Quins here hard to see how Quins will get back into this.

11-3 to Saints at half time, lots of mistakes all round, Saints had the dominance could have been more ahead but Quins showing something there at the end of the half so could make an interesting 2nd 40.

nathan wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Interesting a yellow card for the Northampton player for taking out in the air in what was similar to Payne's red a few weeks ago.  The player could see Brown coming probably better than Payne could a few weeks ago the only difference seems to be the way Brown landed and that he wasn't down with an injury but the potential for injury was just the same so why only yellow?
This needs to be more consistent the refs and the IRB have set a back for themselves here where things like that now have to be a red.
By the way I did think it was a yellow but I also thought Paynes was a yellow so what do I know.

The commentators made it pretty clear, it was because he landed on his hip and not his head. They read the IRB clarification out.

I was pretty disgusted that that was a penalty, never mind a yellow card! The Saints 14 was running at full speed on a slippy surface and Brown jumped into him at an angle where he would have been completely blindsided. Don't see what he could have possibly done to avoid contact. The Payne one was always a clear penalty, I still believe the sanction was completely off, but it was always a penalty. If common sense prevails the incident in this game should not be a penalty. Players do not have 360 degree vision or superhuman reaction speeds.

All it would have taken was Brown to have had a worse landing than he did and it would have been red, game ruined, and for what? An unavoidable collision where the player had no time to react and no intention of committing any kind of tackle. They clarified it since the Payne incident. And the clarification is the single most farcical interpretation of the laws I can ever remember. I've never known there to be a directive I feel is so against the spirit of the law.

If your a coach you say, if there is an unavoidable collision when two players are going for the same ball- make sure you jump into it so you can't be penalised! Well that'll make it a lot safer.

18-3

I think this whole looking at the outcome of how injured someone was is nonsense. Imagine if all of the game was that way you would get people sent off because someone broke a leg by accident when getting tackled or whatever, rules should not be based on outcomes they should be based on firstly the rules and secondly how dangerous it is and dangerous is not what the outcome is as the outcome is luck but it should be the potential for danger in what was done and finally was it intentional was it unavoidable or was it an accident surely all of these should be considered

Don't see Harlequins getting back into this now Northampton are just too physical for them

What I really want to see is what happens if two players on the same side collide going for the same ball, one on the ground one on the air. With the laws being as they are that should be yellow/red.

After all any collision is deemed a 'tackle' and it's about player safety.

Not true notch. Otherwise line out lifting would be illegal...

Thats not Saints first team right?

Getting nervous about Sunday are we?

Serious question QF...do you think COS can bring Quins any further....they seem to have slipped a little this year.

I think quins are doing fine. We lack grunt to compete against the biggest sides, but we've got great players in certain positions, our gameplay is exciting to watch, we don't have a big sugar daddy.

I'm happy. We will qualify for Europe and maybe for the playoffs. Can't lay blame at feet of COS imo.

Conditions really didn't suit us either...

How can the TMO not see the obvious contact with the ball - Fotualii's fingers were clearly moved by the ball, so knock-on and no try. The IRB need to start training TMOs who can make better decisions rather than just employ former referees too old to run.