Saracens

by Knackeredknees Sun 27 Apr 2014, 1:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ok following the match thread and just the forum in general, it appears now that the European cup has been sorted, it looks like Sarries are back to being the arch villians of NH rugby.

So i would like to ask this. Why do they attract so much dislike?

Its full of saffers! 5 in the whole squad(inc acadamy)
They ground share! Nope got a nice shiney new stadium
They have no support! still fill 10k most weeks(ok on here its just beshocked and myself)
Their boring! Nope second highest trys scored in AP and higest in HC
Their a small club! Everyone has to start small(unless your told your now a region)
Their new money!! Sorry they played by the rules when it was the amature days and did not pay players like some of the bigger old money clubs hence they stayed small
They have Borthwick/Ashton/Farrell....!! Yep we do, funny how people only see the bad when they are no longer your players. And im sure your side is full of lovable players! Hartley/Youngs/Care/Clarke........

So i hope that covered all the old repetative stuff. So why are they still the side no one likes?

by **Notch** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:01 pm

munkian wrote:Videos Notch ? Missed that one

Oh, Ulster released a promotional video with Willie John McBride at the end saying 'When you play Ulster at Ravenhill, you're not only playing the 15 players on the field. You're playing the whole province of Ulster"

It was pretty corny, in truth. It was marketing and like the best marketing it had a kernel of truth to it but it was still pretty corny. But then Saracens released the same video with the bit at the end overdubbed with a guy putting on a ridiculous impression of a N. Irish accent saying "when you play ulster at raven hill, you are just playing 15 players".

Now it didn't make me angry (beshocked thinks this sort of thing whips me up into a frenzy apparently) but I did have to wonder- why on earth would you do that? It's not gonna sell more tickets. It's not gonna help 'grow the game'. It's not funny or original. It's just some guy making fun of our accent, making fun of a Lions legend most rugby fans from all the home nations revere and being an ass and then putting it on the internet. And thats not some troll on an obscure rugby forum, thats a Saracens employee putting it up on their official youtube channel.

The irony is in the game it was like playing 15 men. 14 Ulster players and the most amazing crowd I've ever been a part of.

The reaction from Saracens fans was either ambivalent or negative. A lot of Saracens fans were complaining, quite rightly, about it portraying their club in a very bad light. I haven't seen a single Saracens fan online who thought it was a good idea. Saracens themselves pulled the video a day later. You'd like to think somebody got their knuckles rapped, because it was just bone headed.

Unfortunately Saracens have a track record of these sorts of stunts. I don't know why. The classy thing to do would have been to apologise. I always, alway, aways make an effort to talk to opposition fans and visitors to Ravenhill whether we win or lose after the game of there are any standing near me to wish them a safe trip home, and to congratulate them or commiserate with them. Sometimes its hard when the result doesn't go your way, but it's based on mutual respect. I feel like Saracens fans absolutely value that- they made be slightly lesser in number and less vocal than fans from tier clubs but they seem like decent people. Saracens the club, absolutely do not seem to value that mutual respect amongst fans. Otherwise why are they pulling stunts like that and drowning out opposition fans with PA systems.

Face it; things like that put peoples backs up. It's fairly childish and petty and disrespectful.

by Sin é Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:03 pm

Scrumpy wrote: pathetic.

Don't worry you don't pay as much tax as the rest of us.

While I have no idea who pays more tax, I fail to see what that has got to do with fans having to take out two tv subscriptions to watch the one competition.

You will too, if you want to see any team other than the English ones who will be on BT.

by VinceWLB Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:05 pm

I can't seem to find the video anywhere, they deleted it out of embarrassment.

by **Notch** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:06 pm

VinceWLB wrote:I can't seem to find the video anywhere, they deleted it out of embarrassment.

Yeah it was pulled.

by Scrumpy Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:07 pm

Doesn't worry me I'll go down my local rugby club if the game I want to see isn't on BT or Sky.

Its for the good of the game after all.

by beshocked Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:11 pm

Defence is king? Tell that to Ashton who has 11 tries in 8 games.

I think the Welsh have done enough damage to their own game let alone anyone else!

You like to bang on about damage to the game etc but ultimately it's the Irish clubs becoming less competitive which worries you.

I am sorry but some of the pro12 sides have been laughably poor in the HC. Only the Irish exploited the significant advantages they have gained from having virtual HC qualification every season in terms of crowds,revenue and trophies.

by Guest Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:23 pm

I'm sure Sarries scored 6 tries on Saturday, quite a lot for a defensive game plan really, god knows what an attacking game plan would be like.

by beshocked Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:28 pm

Oh and I am sorry if I offend the Welsh with my previous comment.

I just feel that Wales should have implemented the policy of if you want to play for Wales you must play in Wales. The player drain is hurting Wales.

Also not sure the regions was the correct decision - it could pay dividends in the long run but I feel that the wru should help them out more.

by Sin é Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:28 pm

beshocked wrote:Defence is king? Tell that to Ashton who has 11 tries in 8 games.

I think the Welsh have done enough damage to their own game let alone anyone else!

You like to bang on about damage to the game etc but ultimately it's the Irish clubs becoming less competitive which worries you.

I am sorry but some of the pro12 sides have been laughably poor in the HC. Only the Irish exploited the significant advantages they have gained from having virtual HC qualification every season in terms of crowds,revenue and trophies.

Look, a team full of Southern Hemisphere starts like Matt Giteau & Brian Habana couldn't score a try between them yesterday.

It was the PRL courting the Welsh Regions which lead them down this path to nowhere. And now they are stealing all their best players.

On the contrary, I welcome the new challenges in Europe. Its suits us down to the ground. We love a challenge. It took Munster a long time to get where it did, but it was a great experience and I'm delighted to be starting a new one now with our young team and I'd be fairly confident that what we have is built on solid foundations, unlike what Saracens or Toulon has who are dependent on the whim of a couple of egomanics.

by Scrumpy Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:29 pm

It just gets worse, if people really feel that strongly then why don't they just Feck off and let us rugby fans enjoy the build up to the NH club rugbys showpiece in peace.

by Portnoy's Complaint Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:31 pm

Scrumpy wrote: pathetic.

Don't worry you don't pay as much tax as the rest of us.

Amazon really ought to cough up for the sponsorship of the P12.

by beshocked Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:33 pm

Sine you don't think it's due to the gameplan of Toulon?

Wales are not going to implement a policy that protects their players they only have themselves to blame.

Whim of egomaniacs - how ignorant.

Both Wray and Mourad are passionate rugby fans. You don't go into rugby to make money!

Solid foundations take time to be laid down but Sarries now have their own stadium. In time I hope we can grow our fan base and revenue to become more sustainable.

by Sin é Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:37 pm

IronMike wrote:I'm sure Sarries scored 6 tries on Saturday, quite a lot for a defensive game plan really, god knows what an attacking game plan would be like.

Saracens made 165 tackles on Saturday. Very Happy

(Clermont 57). Saracens won.
Toulon 97. Munster 103. (Toulon won)
Cheetahs 150/13. Stormers 96/20. (Cheetahs won).
Hurricanes 99/19. Red 132/37. (Reds won).

The trend is the team that makes the most tackles will win.

by Scrumpy Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:38 pm

Whats wrong with that.

From what I saw the best team won.

clutching at straws Laugh

by mystiroakey Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:41 pm

So has the rugby managers been watching the legend Jose mourihio and decided the best way to play rugby is to park the bus and hit on the break!!!

by Guest Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:42 pm

Sin é wrote:
IronMike wrote:I'm sure Sarries scored 6 tries on Saturday, quite a lot for a defensive game plan really, god knows what an attacking game plan would be like.

Saracens made 165 tackles on Saturday. (Clermont 57). Saracens won.
Toulon 97. Munster 103. (Toulon won)
Cheetahs 150/13. Stormers 96/20. (Cheetahs won).
Hurricanes 99/19. Red 132/37. (Reds won).

The trend is the team that makes the most tackles will win.

You would hope so! A team with solid defense shouldn't really lose unless they are indisciplined.

by fa0019 Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:43 pm

When NZ play they often make more tackles then the opposition... because they are so clinical when they get the ball they don't mess around. Whereas the opposition have to go through phase after phase before more often than not, losing possession.

Doesn't mean they are necessarily more defensive.

by **Notch** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:46 pm

People are citing Saracens style of play as a reason to dislike them. I have absolutely nothing against their style of play. In fact I think its a great credit to them.

The teams in Europe I really don't enjoy watching are the teams that rely only on size and power with little tactical discipline or sense of invention. Tends to be more mid-table French sides.

I also think the arguments over Irish fan not liking the changes as they will be the ones who lose out are spurious. The Irish teams should benefit from the changes, its the other Pro12 nations who are going to lose out.

by Scrumpy Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:48 pm

I think the way Sarries played on Saturday they would have pushed the All Blacks all the way to the final whistle.

It was a complete performance maybe one game too soon but still anyone who didn't enjoy watcing that must have something wrong.

by Sin é Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:48 pm

beshocked wrote:Sine you don't think it's due to the gameplan of Toulon?

Wales are not going to implement a policy that protects their players they only have themselves to blame.

Whim of egomaniacs - how ignorant.

Both Wray and Mourad are passionate rugby fans. You don't go into rugby to make money!

Solid foundations take time to be laid down but Sarries now have their own stadium. In time I hope we can grow our fan base and revenue to become more sustainable.

Yes, sadly thats the game plan for a French coached team are unable to score any trys with that kind of talent in it.

As regards Wales - the exodus floodgates opened a long time ago. They only have 4 teams to pick from - they'd have no one to select if they went down that route.

Who said anything about going into rugby to make money. They want the likes of me to pay for their excessive ego trips. Mourad says his team is making money, so he isn't subsidising them now apparently and with their new tv deal, won't have to anyway.

I think Sarries have gone down the wrong route. I see where Borthwith was bitching about the ERC not marketing the game well enough (when asked about the lack of fans at the game).

Sarries/PRL are going to get caught out eventually when the next media deal comes to be negotiated when they find that no one is watching them on tv or going to their matches.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:53 pm

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php

by Sin é Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:56 pm

LondonTiger wrote:http://www.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php

Don't Saracens & whoever (like quins) they are playing both get credited with the numbers at those matches?

by Scrumpy Mon 28 Apr 2014, 2:56 pm

What has happened to the Irish lads on this site they used to be a good bunch or as long as they were winning so it seems!

Guys your turn will come again, stop embarressing yourselves and you teams.

by Sin é Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:04 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Whats wrong with that.

From what I saw the best team won.

clutching at straws

Its negative rugby. By the way, I'm not criticising Sarries style of rugby, I'm bemoaning the fact Habana & Giteau for example are not scoring (though happy they didn't yesterday!).

by Scrumpy Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:08 pm

But in rugby union it is possible to win a game by not scoring a try, they had a game plan and it worked as they won. Why worry?

I'm sure there is a Toulon fan moaning that they made the HC final again somewhere!!!!

by mystiroakey Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:09 pm

i have no idea what he is talking about

by Sin é Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:13 pm

Toulon fans don't care what the team play like. However, if they had no fans, it might be a problem for them if they want to attract support of their team.

Do you understand that now mystiroakey?
Fine if you have a good support base. Not great if you don't already do.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:13 pm

Brian Moore in the Telegraph wrote:An unlovable club, full of South Africans, created from money and who play dull, negative rugby. This is the caricature that many outside Barnet Copthall would have you believe describes Saracens, though most have no idea about their history and how their rise to possibly the top of European club rugby has been achieved.
Saracens have been around for nearly 140 years and prior to the professional era Saracens were producing players of the quality of Jason Leonard, Tony Diprose and John Buckton, only to lose many to more fashionable clubs.
Professionalism and the investment of Nigel Wray gave them the chance to compete on an equal footing and, contrary to myth, Wray has only been made poorer by his investment.
To those saying the club lost its soul – how else could the club to close the gap? Moreover, the input of Wray and then the South African billionaire Johann Rupert is no different from the way Bath, Worcester and others have been funded. It is a long way from the Bramley Road days but it needed to be.
In more reflective mood Wray will admit that the strategy of stars and so many overseas players was wrong; it gave the club the feeling of being a temporary staging post for those wanting honours or a pension plan. What Saracens needed was a home and the replication of the spirit of the amateur club in the moneyed era. Much of the dislike has come because of the South African input, though had it been from New Zealand all would have marvelled at the ruthless and single-minded commitment. It is true that they started by concentrating on defence and augmented that only lately with a more expansive approach, but anyone who plays sport knows that you do not get anywhere near the top without a strong defence.

Like it or not, believe it or not, today’s success is a product of the club building a proper club spirit. When you spend time at Saracens you can see that those involved, on and off the field, genuinely believe in the club; there is nothing fake about their affection.
So powerful is the negativity of their detractors that some even tried to deny them credit for their 46-6 win over the Heineken Cup favourites Clermont Auvergne at Twickenham on Saturday. Apparently it was all down to the contentious decision by Nigel Owens to award Sarries a penalty try in the earliest stages of the game. Rubbish.
The defensive effort both tactically and physically was one of, if not the, finest ever produced by an English side in Europe. Jacques Burger, Schalk Brits and Brad Barritt combined astuteness with a disregard for punishment that was truly remarkable. Denied time and space, Clermont’s creative players such as Wesley Fofana had nowhere to go and the power that has overwhelmed so many teams was met full on and neutralised, often behind Clermont’s gain line. The patterns of defence showed that Saracens have learned from previous reversals and that is a sign of astute coaching. The execution of those patterns, theoretically easy but practically difficult, is a sign of intelligent players.
Fortunate or not to get a penalty try, the sharpness of Chris Ashton was significant not only for fans but also the watching England management. It is churlish not to acknowledge Ashton’s return to form, and the work it has taken, just because you do not like the way he celebrates – and I do not. You also cannot maintain that Saracens do not seek to play with ambition given the contributions of David Strettle and Alex Goode on the counter-attacks that met with a surprising amount of kicking from the French side.
You should also take notice of the way in which the attacking strategy was planned. The probing of Clermont’s short side defence was purposeful and productive and was clearly the result of planning. If you think that planning means sterility you need to look at how this was done because it was anything but.
When criticisms of the play ended, some even resorted to moaning about the relatively small crowd of 27,000 and this was disappointing. However, if you want big games like this to be seen by as many people as possible, you need a discounted ticketing policy. That this was not possible is a failure in imagination of the soon to be redundant governing body European Club Rugby (ERC), not Saracens.
Whether the north London club can take the trophy from Toulon is questionable but if you agree with the criticisms of Saracens, what can you say of Toulon and the way in which their success has been created? The fact is that both have managed to forge a team and club spirit; without it neither would be successful for any amount of investment. Money makes success more likely, it doesn’t guarantee it.

by Scrumpy Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:17 pm

Sin é wrote:Toulon fans don't care what the team play like. However, if they had no fans, it might be a problem for them if they want to attract support of their team.

Do you understand that now mystiroakey?
Fine if you have a good support base. Not great if you don't already do.

But they have got fans, and your comments are a bit insulting towards them to be honest.

by **Biltong** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:19 pm

LondonTiger wrote:http://www.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php

That is not very impressive LT. How many games is that? 132 for the season?

The Premiership has an average of less than 10 000 spectators per match.

Our Currie Cup has an average attendance of 18500 per match, and that includes Griquas who average around 5 000 per match.

by mystiroakey Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:20 pm

Sin é wrote:Toulon fans don't care what the team play like. However, if they had no fans, it might be a problem for them if they want to attract support of their team.

Do you understand that now mystiroakey?
Fine if you have a good support base. Not great if you don't already do.

Are you saying you think sarries play negatively?

they just tackled well and were clinical in attack, that's it, It was an immense performance and not negative in the slightest.

I am deciding to start supporting sarries due to the abuse they seem to be getting everywhere. I have only really just started getting into club rugby and I like there style.

by fa0019 Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:32 pm

Biltong wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:http://www.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php

That is not very impressive LT. How many games is that? 132 for the season?

The Premiership has an average of less than 10 000 spectators per match.

Our Currie Cup has an average attendance of 18500 per match, and that includes Griquas who average around 5 000 per match.

BB

Club rugby is different in England especially. Back in the amateur years by the end Leicester had say 12k and Bath 8k... that was it. The national team has always been the forefront of the game in England in terms of support.

The problem lies mainly in that the games traditional supporters play matches on Saturday's and therefore they cannot go and support the larger sides. Football on the otherhand, the amateur game is Sunday league, most matches are on Saturday etc.

I remember years back I tried to get some tickets to see quins when I was in London, quoted £45 each just for a club game. Its crazy. However, I read that the Saracens game at Twickenham were priced like internationals i.e. £60+, I can imagine why only 25k people turned up. No wonder people have been so keen to put the nail in the coffin of the ERC.

by HammerofThunor Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:32 pm

Biltong wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:http://www.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php

That is not very impressive LT. How many games is that? 132 for the season?

The Premiership has an average of less than 10 000 spectators per match.

Our Currie Cup has an average attendance of 18500 per match, and that includes Griquas who average around 5 000 per match.

Season's not finished. The average is just under 13000 I think. That includes the big Sarries, Quins games at Wembley and Twickenham and London double header.

Sin é, the big games only contribute to the home side, so, for example, Quins' attendance figures are never impacted by the London double header as it's never counted as a home game.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:32 pm

Biltong wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:http://www.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php

That is not very impressive LT. How many games is that? 132 for the season?

The Premiership has an average of less than 10 000 spectators per match.

Our Currie Cup has an average attendance of 18500 per match, and that includes Griquas who average around 5 000 per match.

That is from 120 matches, so an average of about 10.7k per match. I have a funny feeling that attendances this season will be a record. Now yes it i slow compared to Currie cup - but we are talking about a minority sport in small stadiums. In fact only Leicester and London Irish have grounds big enough to beat the CC average.

by HammerofThunor Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:35 pm

LT, it's 12800 average (I originally did it on calculator and then copied into spreadsheet when you posted 10.7k). Total 1,541,128 in 120 games

by HammerofThunor Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:35 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Brian Moore in the Telegraph wrote:An unlovable club, full of South Africans, created from money and who play dull, negative rugby. This is the caricature that many outside Barnet Copthall would have you believe describes Saracens, though most have no idea about their history and how their rise to possibly the top of European club rugby has been achieved.
Saracens have been around for nearly 140 years and prior to the professional era Saracens were producing players of the quality of Jason Leonard, Tony Diprose and John Buckton, only to lose many to more fashionable clubs.
Professionalism and the investment of Nigel Wray gave them the chance to compete on an equal footing and, contrary to myth, Wray has only been made poorer by his investment.
To those saying the club lost its soul – how else could the club to close the gap? Moreover, the input of Wray and then the South African billionaire Johann Rupert is no different from the way Bath, Worcester and others have been funded. It is a long way from the Bramley Road days but it needed to be.
In more reflective mood Wray will admit that the strategy of stars and so many overseas players was wrong; it gave the club the feeling of being a temporary staging post for those wanting honours or a pension plan. What Saracens needed was a home and the replication of the spirit of the amateur club in the moneyed era. Much of the dislike has come because of the South African input, though had it been from New Zealand all would have marvelled at the ruthless and single-minded commitment. It is true that they started by concentrating on defence and augmented that only lately with a more expansive approach, but anyone who plays sport knows that you do not get anywhere near the top without a strong defence.

Like it or not, believe it or not, today’s success is a product of the club building a proper club spirit. When you spend time at Saracens you can see that those involved, on and off the field, genuinely believe in the club; there is nothing fake about their affection.
So powerful is the negativity of their detractors that some even tried to deny them credit for their 46-6 win over the Heineken Cup favourites Clermont Auvergne at Twickenham on Saturday. Apparently it was all down to the contentious decision by Nigel Owens to award Sarries a penalty try in the earliest stages of the game. Rubbish.
The defensive effort both tactically and physically was one of, if not the, finest ever produced by an English side in Europe. Jacques Burger, Schalk Brits and Brad Barritt combined astuteness with a disregard for punishment that was truly remarkable. Denied time and space, Clermont’s creative players such as Wesley Fofana had nowhere to go and the power that has overwhelmed so many teams was met full on and neutralised, often behind Clermont’s gain line. The patterns of defence showed that Saracens have learned from previous reversals and that is a sign of astute coaching. The execution of those patterns, theoretically easy but practically difficult, is a sign of intelligent players.
Fortunate or not to get a penalty try, the sharpness of Chris Ashton was significant not only for fans but also the watching England management. It is churlish not to acknowledge Ashton’s return to form, and the work it has taken, just because you do not like the way he celebrates – and I do not. You also cannot maintain that Saracens do not seek to play with ambition given the contributions of David Strettle and Alex Goode on the counter-attacks that met with a surprising amount of kicking from the French side.
You should also take notice of the way in which the attacking strategy was planned. The probing of Clermont’s short side defence was purposeful and productive and was clearly the result of planning. If you think that planning means sterility you need to look at how this was done because it was anything but.
When criticisms of the play ended, some even resorted to moaning about the relatively small crowd of 27,000 and this was disappointing. However, if you want big games like this to be seen by as many people as possible, you need a discounted ticketing policy. That this was not possible is a failure in imagination of the soon to be redundant governing body European Club Rugby (ERC), not Saracens.
Whether the north London club can take the trophy from Toulon is questionable but if you agree with the criticisms of Saracens, what can you say of Toulon and the way in which their success has been created? The fact is that both have managed to forge a team and club spirit; without it neither would be successful for any amount of investment. Money makes success more likely, it doesn’t guarantee it.

Nice piece

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:37 pm

ay yes, I copied it into excel then looked at the wrong number when doing a rough estimate of average.

by HammerofThunor Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:49 pm

If every stadium sold out the average attendance would be 14250. So they're only 1.5k off their 'upper limit' (bumped up by the one off games)

by Sin é Mon 28 Apr 2014, 3:59 pm

Nice piece[/quote]

brian moore wrote:When criticisms of the play ended, some even resorted to moaning about the relatively small crowd of 27,000 and this was disappointing. However, if you want big games like this to be seen by as many people as possible, you need a discounted ticketing policy. That this was not possible is a failure in imagination of the soon to be redundant governing body European Club Rugby (ERC), not Saracens.

Hard to imagine up some support Brian Very Happy

I hope Munster get Saracens next season at some stage - we'll probably all get free tickets to the game Very Happy

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 4:06 pm

I want Leicester to be paired with Munster - been too long.

by Scrumpy Mon 28 Apr 2014, 4:06 pm

Brian Moore bang on the money once again.

by mystiroakey Mon 28 Apr 2014, 4:08 pm

Sarries have already added one fan (many more will follow with me)- its a london team- I will make sure i get to a game or two.

by Sin é Mon 28 Apr 2014, 4:11 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I want Leicester to be paired with Munster - been too long.

I'd be happy enough with that. You have a decent sized stadium with great fans.

by fa0019 Mon 28 Apr 2014, 4:11 pm

27,000 fans.. most rugby clubs would give their right arm for imaginary support of such.

by Sin é Mon 28 Apr 2014, 4:13 pm

fa0019 wrote:27,000 fans.. most rugby clubs would give their right arm for imaginary support of such.

At least 40 of those were from Munster (Dolphin Rugby club dropped in on their way to play in some London Irish tournament) so they are probably not Saracen fans.

And Clermont probably have the best travelling French support.

by mystiroakey Mon 28 Apr 2014, 4:15 pm

Sin e- is rugby like x factor to you.

Would you rather fans just vote in to pick there favourite team rather than playing the game?

by **Notch** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 4:17 pm

Brian Moore is always irritating in that he tends not to fact check. People on a forum like this getting things wrong is one thing; you think if you were getting published in a national paper you might check to see if there were any discounts in place (£15 tickets) before blaming the ERC over their lack.

I totally agree with him over people criticising Saracens for their style of play- I actually think they did a tactical masterclass on Clermont and that explains the margin of victory- and while they did get a bit of luck in the refereeing decisions, it wasn't at all decisive in the game the way the red card was in the previous round.

I did not get the chance to watch the game live but I've seen highlights and a bit of good fortune seemed to be the difference between a 30 point drubbing and a 40 point drubbing, not a win and a loss.

But seriously Brian- you couldn't have just looked up the ticket prices and who was responsible for selling them?

by Scrumpy Mon 28 Apr 2014, 4:21 pm

It won't be a bad thing to see the back of ERC, I saw nothing from them in the run up to the semi at HQ, no advertising from them anywhere as far as I saw.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 4:23 pm

A couple of work colleagues tried to get tickets - the £15 were not available. They were quoted £50 by Ticketmaster as the cheapest available.

by **Notch** Mon 28 Apr 2014, 4:24 pm

LondonTiger wrote:A couple of work colleagues tried to get tickets - the £15 were not available. They were quoted £50 by Ticketmaster as the cheapest available.

Thats a shame then- not exactly what the fixture needed.

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