MEP Elections

First topic message reminder :

It's the European Parliament Elections on May 22nd, with UKIP hoping to gain the most seats after second place last time out, with Labour and Liberal Democrats looking to hold onto their seats.

But, does anyone care? Only one in three people voted in the last elections, but there seems to be more of a media interest, especially with the TV debates between Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg, which if you haven't seen are worth a watch. Could it be argued that by Labour and Conservatives not showing to the debates, that UKIP and LibDem will gain?

It seems that this year, there will be a higher turnout but will it be a significant amount? UKIP are certainly a more real opposition and will surely gain seats, with the opinion polls showing UKIP are likely to win.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:Great talent up here, independence could allow Scotland to build a stronger and more competitive country, by putting economic control in the hands of its own people and then the big decisions about Scotland and about the future, can then be taken by the people who care most about Scotland and the people who actually live here.

That is not being against or disliking the UK. Don't be so black and white, try thinking in colour.

If you are voting for scottish independence that means you are against scotland remaining in the UK.... I will be black and white about it because that is what it is, a referendum with a yes or no question. Do you want scotland to remain part of the uk or do you want scotland to seperate from the UK. You have decided that you want Scotland to be seperate hence why you are voting for seperation hence why you are against Scotland remaining in the UK.

I will add that the above is your explanation about why it would be better for scotland to NOT be part of the UK which is your arguments in favour of independence which highlights you are against the UK. It is very simple.

But what you seem to be confused about, is that i am against the UK. I would be happy either way, if that is how it goes. Democracy and choice, we have the chance at with this referendum, something you seem to be not able to grasp when it comes to UKIP.


Anyways, off again to be an honest polition.

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:Great talent up here, independence could allow Scotland to build a stronger and more competitive country, by putting economic control in the hands of its own people and then the big decisions about Scotland and about the future, can then be taken by the people who care most about Scotland and the people who actually live here.

That is not being against or disliking the UK. Don't be so black and white, try thinking in colour.

If you are voting for scottish independence that means you are against scotland remaining in the UK.... I will be black and white about it because that is what it is, a referendum with a yes or no question. Do you want scotland to remain part of the uk or do you want scotland to seperate from the UK. You have decided that you want Scotland to be seperate hence why you are voting for seperation hence why you are against Scotland remaining in the UK.

I will add that the above is your explanation about why it would be better for scotland to NOT be part of the UK which is your arguments in favour of independence which highlights you are against the UK. It is very simple.

But what you seem to be confused about, is that i am against the UK. I would be happy either way, if that is how it goes. Democracy and choice, we have the chance at with this referendum, something you seem to be not able to grasp when it comes to UKIP.


Anyways, off again to be an honest polition.

So what you are saying is that you hate the EU more than the UK so why not vote for an anti-EU party at the GE rather than the SNP who are pro-EU.

If politically you despise the EU more than the UK then surely you should be using your vote as a means to end the UK's involvement with the EU rather than using your vote to end Scotlands involvement with the UK?

By voting for the SNP and independence all you will gain is Scotland seperating from the UK (something you don't care about) and Scotland then joining the EU whilst the rest of the UK get a referendum on leaving the EU. If you dislike the EU more than the UK your political affiliation to the SNP makes no sense whatsoever as they are the biggest pro-EU party in Scotland.

I see C_S is still struggling to get his head around what Skye's precedent is, and what a "protest vote" quite entails.

skyeman wrote:

kingraf wrote:

Rowley wrote:

Duty281 wrote: He still trots out the wholly untrue "3 million jobs lost" line every time.

Is this statement any more guilty of hyperbole than Farage's extremely questionable claim it costs us £55m a day to be in the EU he is so fond of trotting out?

This is what bores me with political debates on here. Nearly all politicians are, to varying degrees guilty of making statements that are at worst just false or at best a misrepresentation of a more nuanced or complex picture. However those that involve themselves in political debates on here are only too happy to leap on and repeat such statements made by those they don't care for, whilst happily ignoring any number of similar such statements from those they support.

A rather measured reply Geoff, this is why we don't want you here.

You have hurt my feelings King   Some posts are more measured than others though 

apologies Skye - I try not involve myself on political affairs I know nothing on. Tends to help me stay unbanned. Interesting debate this is though, no idea how it's gone nine pages given rather straightforward everything seems to be. I do like the UKIP, interesting to see how long they remain a big league player. Populist parties with chest thumping messages tend to have short shelf life when it comes to relevance. Currently drafting a 3, 000 word post on the Nigerian teenage girls Hostage situation though.

Duty281 wrote:I see C_S is still struggling to get his head around what Skye's precedent is, and what a "protest vote" quite entails.

So he is protesting against his own agenda by voting SNP who are Pro EU and anti UK when he doesn't care about the UK and hates the EU   

What's interesting for me is that the Greens could out poll the Lib Dems. A divided left?

Dave. wrote:What's interesting for me is that the Greens could out poll the Lib Dems. A divided left?

The best thing to have happend to Labour was that the Lib Dems got into power.

From watching politics in the Republic of Ireland, one thing becomes clear. The junior coalition partner gets a kicking. Happened with Labour, then the PDs, then the Greens and it will soon be Labour again. The senior party usually is ok, it would lose seats but not a kicking, Fianna Fail's meltdown in 2011 aside

Does not look good for the Lib Dems in 2015.

And in some cases the senior party even gain seats. Not just an Irish thing, happened in Germany with the CDU/CSU gaining a near majority with the FDP losing all their seats.

kingraf wrote:

skyeman wrote:

kingraf wrote:

Rowley wrote:

Duty281 wrote: He still trots out the wholly untrue "3 million jobs lost" line every time.

Is this statement any more guilty of hyperbole than Farage's extremely questionable claim it costs us £55m a day to be in the EU he is so fond of trotting out?

This is what bores me with political debates on here. Nearly all politicians are, to varying degrees guilty of making statements that are at worst just false or at best a misrepresentation of a more nuanced or complex picture. However those that involve themselves in political debates on here are only too happy to leap on and repeat such statements made by those they don't care for, whilst happily ignoring any number of similar such statements from those they support.

A rather measured reply Geoff, this is why we don't want you here.

You have hurt my feelings King   Some posts are more measured than others though 

apologies  Skye - I try not involve myself on political affairs I know nothing on. Tends to help me stay unbanned. Interesting debate this is though, no idea how it's gone nine pages given rather straightforward everything seems to be. I do like the UKIP,  interesting to see how long they remain a big league player. Populist parties with chest thumping messages tend to have short shelf life when it comes to relevance. Currently drafting a 3, 000 word post on the Nigerian teenage girls Hostage situation though.

No need for apologies King, i was joshing. I would agree with you, some (including myself) are going round and round on the same point. But one can be agitated by a fellow poster who keeps on bringing up the same point, just for arguments sake and just can't/won't/does not want to take it in.

In regards to UKIP, they will only grow until the three main parties decide to give the referendum over Europe, once that is achieved they will disappear. Their message is and their support is from the main three parties lies over an EU referendum. Like many, they just want a say on where they think their polititions are going and if they think they are heading in the wrong direction.

The abducted 223 schoolgirls is a nightmare for the families of those girls and people in Nigeria and all around the world. Let's hope all authorities pull their fingers out and the girls are returned safely home.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I see C_S is still struggling to get his head around what Skye's precedent is, and what a "protest vote" quite entails.

So he is protesting against his own agenda by voting SNP who are Pro EU and anti UK when he doesn't care about the UK and hates the EU   

See what i mean King. So i think it is now time to block.

Just once more CS, i like the UK and do care. The chances are it will be a NO vote, happy either way and i hate nothing. But thanks for telling everyone how i think.

Reminds me of someone.  

One interesting thing though is the loss of Scotland to Labour would be utterly devastating for them. Without Scotland, Labour will be traumatised for a generation. And might never recover. Without Scotlands 40 labour MP's i think you could forget about their chances of winning power in future elections for quite some time.

You would think Labour would be fighting tooth and nail to retain Scotland. But....

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I see C_S is still struggling to get his head around what Skye's precedent is, and what a "protest vote" quite entails.

So he is protesting against his own agenda by voting SNP who are Pro EU and anti UK when he doesn't care about the UK and hates the EU   

See what i mean King. So i think it is now time to block.

Just once more CS, i like the UK and do care. The chances are it will be a NO vote, happy either way and i hate nothing. But thanks for telling everyone how i think.  

Reminds me of someone.  

Feel free to block me

Anti-EU voting for the most pro-EU party in Scotland   

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I see C_S is still struggling to get his head around what Skye's precedent is, and what a "protest vote" quite entails.

So he is protesting against his own agenda by voting SNP who are Pro EU and anti UK when he doesn't care about the UK and hates the EU   

See what i mean King. So i think it is now time to block.

Just once more CS, i like the UK and do care. The chances are it will be a NO vote, happy either way and i hate nothing. But thanks for telling everyone how i think.

Reminds me of someone.  

Mate Champers tends to debate like this. You're welcome to have a look at the previous politic centred discussions that snuck through the defence. Tends to shift the goalposts until they're finally out of reach.

Just seen that 2005 Farage v Blair EU Parliament video. Very funny and how true it was then and in 2014, how times have changed. One being talked about as should be sent to the Hague as a war criminal and worst PM in history and the other about to make an earthquake in UK politics. A four party UK now.

Tony Blair and his  party did more damage to the E.U and UK than any party have ever done.

Don't think he shifts the goalposts but redesigns the whole stadium.

I'm annoyed with myself for answering and trying to explain to him as with everything you write he either takes it completely out of context (you anti-british William Wallace wannabe Skye ;-)

Or ignores what you say when it shows he's so small minded and wrong. (UKIP has one policy, Sky shouldn't be allowed to vote for 2 different parties, What do you mean you won't stand as an independant, don't you realise, you'll be PM in 6 months doing that and can then put all the policies you want in one little box for everyone)

Derbymanc wrote:Don't think he shifts the goalposts but redesigns the whole stadium.

I'm annoyed with myself for answering and trying to explain to him as with everything you write he either takes it completely out of context (you anti-british William Wallace wannabe Skye ;-)

Or ignores what you say when it shows he's so small minded and wrong.  (UKIP has one policy, Sky shouldn't be allowed to vote for 2 different parties, What do you mean you won't stand as an independant, don't you realise, you'll be PM in 6 months doing that and can then put all the policies you want in one little box for everyone)

William Wallace wannabe   


Just likes to argue, but he should be arguing against his own party who nearly sent the UK into the abyss.

Derbymanc wrote:Don't think he shifts the goalposts but redesigns the whole stadium.

I'm annoyed with myself for answering and trying to explain to him as with everything you write he either takes it completely out of context (you anti-british William Wallace wannabe Skye ;-)

Or ignores what you say when it shows he's so small minded and wrong.  (UKIP has one policy, Sky shouldn't be allowed to vote for 2 different parties, What do you mean you won't stand as an independant, don't you realise, you'll be PM in 6 months doing that and can then put all the policies you want in one little box for everyone)

I will highlight as often as it comes up that Skye voting for UKIP because he is anti-EU and then voting for the SNP who are the most pro EU party in the UK is an oxymoron.

Skye won't admit that he is anti-UK due to fear of upsetting Duty and he has been saying he doesn't care either way if scotland is independent or not so voting for the SNP is a shot in the foot to UKIP and their anti-EU policy. ( he already said that he wants Scotland to be independent because he thinks England rules Scotland and Scotland would be better off independent but somehow changed his tune when Duty disagreed)

kingraf wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I see C_S is still struggling to get his head around what Skye's precedent is, and what a "protest vote" quite entails.

So he is protesting against his own agenda by voting SNP who are Pro EU and anti UK when he doesn't care about the UK and hates the EU   

See what i mean King. So i think it is now time to block.

Just once more CS, i like the UK and do care. The chances are it will be a NO vote, happy either way and i hate nothing. But thanks for telling everyone how i think.  

Reminds me of someone.  

Mate Champers tends to debate like this. You're welcome to have a look at the previous politic centred discussions that snuck through the defence. Tends to shift the goalposts until they're finally out of reach.

You should probably end your debate with catchweight on the boxing forum regarding Klitschko because it is just painful to read.....

Nope, Nope and Nope CS, Skye and Duty and everyone else in this debate has put their position across quite clear (bar me I think,) You are refusing to even acknowledge that people can have differing views on them. Your like a gambler trying to convince everyone you know your gonna win big so it doesn't matter if you spend a fortune now.

For the record, If Skye wants to vote on an independant Scotland because he believes they can govern themselves better it doesn't make him anti-English/UK/Democracy/Pro EU/For the Putin regime or any other ridiculous label you want to give him.

It means he believes that the Scottish People can govern themselves better, there's nothing wrong with thinking that, just as there's nothing wrong with thinking that Immigration needs tightening up, the higher wage needs rising or that Britain would be better out of the EU.

Now i'm off to have a shower cause I feel dirty for answering   

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

kingraf wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I see C_S is still struggling to get his head around what Skye's precedent is, and what a "protest vote" quite entails.

So he is protesting against his own agenda by voting SNP who are Pro EU and anti UK when he doesn't care about the UK and hates the EU   

See what i mean King. So i think it is now time to block.

Just once more CS, i like the UK and do care. The chances are it will be a NO vote, happy either way and i hate nothing. But thanks for telling everyone how i think.  

Reminds me of someone.  

Mate Champers tends to debate like this. You're welcome to have a look at the previous politic centred discussions that snuck through the defence. Tends to shift the goalposts until they're finally out of reach.

You should probably end your debate with catchweight on the boxing forum regarding Klitschko because it is just painful to read.....

I haven't asked Catchy to state whether or not he thinks Lewis beats Vitali on the moon, before qualifying that by stating that I meant who'd win on the moon, with a cow strapped to their appendix, so I'm not doing any worse than you.

Derbymanc wrote:Nope, Nope and Nope CS, Skye and Duty and everyone else in this debate has put their position across quite clear (bar me I think,) You are refusing to even acknowledge that people can have differing views on them. Your like a gambler trying to convince everyone you know your gonna win big so it doesn't matter if you spend a fortune now.

For the record, If Skye wants to vote on an independant Scotland because he believes they can govern themselves better it doesn't make him anti-English/UK/Democracy/Pro EU/For the Putin regime or any other ridiculous label you want to give him.

It means he believes that the Scottish People can govern themselves better, there's nothing wrong with thinking that, just as there's nothing wrong with thinking that Immigration needs tightening up, the higher wage needs rising or that Britain would be better out of the EU.

Now i'm off to have a shower cause I feel dirty for answering   

If you vote for independence from the UK it puts you in the anti/against UK camp, unless of course you think voting for independence makes him pro-union.

he has categorically come out stating he hates the EU so why is he voting for the biggest pro EU party in the country? e has said he is not fussed about independence (changed his mind after Duty commented) so wy not vote UKIp or the conservatives at 2015 who are both promising a referendum should they get into power?

If I was anti-EU as much as he was I would not vote lib dems because they are the party to vote for if you are pro-EU. Even if I liked the Lib dems policy on tax etc etc if my biggest concern or a major concern of mine was the EU then I could not possibly vote for a party whose intention is to create stronger ties between the UK and the EU.

Latest polling round up...........

National
---------

Populus - Con 35....Lab 34........LD 8.........UKIP 14
Ipsos - Con 31 ...Lab 34........LD 9.........UKIP 11
Yougov - Con 34 ...Lab 37.......LD 9.........UKIP 13
Comres - Con 29 ...Lab 33...... LD 8.........UKIP 19

Euro Elections
-------------

Yougov - Con 23 .....Lab 27......LD 8.......UKIP 26.....Green 8
Comres - Con 20......Lab 24......LD 6.......UKIP 36.....Green 7
ICM - Con 26......Lab 29....LD 8.......UKIP 25

Scottish Independence
----------------------

ICM Scotland - Yes 34..............No .........46.....

1. No it doesn't, it puts you in the 'I think we can run our own country camp', bit like when you (eventually) leave home, doesn't mean you hate your parents, just that you now think you can do better on your own.

2. Answered about 50 times in this page alone, anyone that wants to can go back and see that even the Rowley thinks your digging your head in the sand on that one.

3. The Lib Dems and SNP are completely different, as is the SNP to any other party in Britain. Again this is the same question as 2. and has been answered by everyone else.

If you don't understand the answer, please go through and read the thread slowly, find where Rowleys name is highlighted, it's around there.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Latest polling round up...........

National
---------

Populus  - Con 35....Lab  34........LD 8.........UKIP 14
Ipsos     - Con 31 ...Lab  34........LD 9.........UKIP 11
Yougov  - Con 34 ...Lab  37.......LD 9.........UKIP 13
Comres  - Con 29 ...Lab  33...... LD 8.........UKIP  19

Screams hung-parliament, again

Just depends how that popular vote measure translates into FPTP to see whether LD's or UKIP (shudder the thought) become king-makers or whether the result is that either Cons or Labs pick up an extra seat or two somewhere and can squeek a government together.

Still, 12 months to go.......

In the event of a hung-parliament, which looks likely unless Scotland become independent, it will most likely be a Lib-Lab coalition.

Christ, Ed Miliband as Prime Minister.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Latest polling round up...........

National
---------

Populus  - Con 35....Lab  34........LD 8.........UKIP 14
Ipsos     - Con 31 ...Lab  34........LD 9.........UKIP 11
Yougov  - Con 34 ...Lab  37.......LD 9.........UKIP 13
Comres  - Con 29 ...Lab  33...... LD 8.........UKIP  19

Screams hung-parliament, again

Just depends how that popular vote measure translates into FPTP to see whether LD's or UKIP (shudder the thought) become king-makers or whether the result is that either Cons or Labs pick up an extra seat or two somewhere and can squeek a government together.

Still, 12 months to go.......

Welcome back.................

Changed my mind.......Think the Conservative's will win a majority..

Level pegging now........With 12 months to go.........Economy will improve ......More jobs and the incumbent party like Labour in 2010 always get a bounce in the run up anyway when voters are scared of change.....UKIPers come back into the fold as well.......

Cameron nailed on for me..

We can only hope, Truss, we can only hope. For Britannia's sake.

Clegg can only hope the Greens don't finish above him .......On Thursday

Or we may see a challenge.........

We can only hope they do... 

Yes, I rather think that Clegg's decision to appear on those two EU debates with Farage was nothing short of suicidal in terms of his political career.

Losing to the Greens.

Is anyone on here voting Lib Dem (just curious!)?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Latest polling round up...........

National
---------

Populus  - Con 35....Lab  34........LD 8.........UKIP 14
Ipsos     - Con 31 ...Lab  34........LD 9.........UKIP 11
Yougov  - Con 34 ...Lab  37.......LD 9.........UKIP 13
Comres  - Con 29 ...Lab  33...... LD 8.........UKIP  19

Screams hung-parliament, again

Just depends how that popular vote measure translates into FPTP to see whether LD's or UKIP (shudder the thought) become king-makers or whether the result is that either Cons or Labs pick up an extra seat or two somewhere and can squeek a government together.

Still, 12 months to go.......

Welcome back.................

Changed my mind.......Think the Conservative's will win a majority..

Level pegging now........With 12 months to go.........Economy will improve ......More jobs and the incumbent party like Labour in 2010 always get a bounce in the run up anyway when voters are scared of change.....UKIPers come back into the fold as well.......

Cameron nailed on for me..

Cheers buddy, only a fleeting visit though I fear.

Now't wrong with changing your opinion based on new information, it's certainly an interesting race to watch develop - less than 24 months ago the Tories were imploding and looked dead in the water.

I'm still on the fence, wouldn't want to make a call before the end of the year. Am starting to sdwing in the Tories favour (guessing-wise) and think they may now take a slim overall lead but I can't see an overall majority at this stage yet.

But if economic growth continues, and is robust to interest rate increases, and real wages start to show growth than I think you're right - people will be content with that and, fearful of change, will give a bump to the incumbent.


And Duty, to answer your question, I voted LD last time round (having voted Lab before that) and expect to be completing the triumvirate in 2015 with a Tory vote.

Derbymanc wrote:1. No it doesn't, it puts you in the 'I think we can run our own country camp', bit like when you (eventually) leave home, doesn't mean you hate your parents, just that you now think you can do better on your own.

2. Answered about 50 times in this page alone, anyone that wants to can go back and see that even the Rowley thinks your digging your head in the sand on that one.

3. The Lib Dems and SNP are completely different, as is the SNP to any other party in Britain. Again this is the same question as 2. and has been answered by everyone else.

If you don't understand the answer, please go through and read the thread slowly, find where Rowleys name is highlighted, it's around there.

Voting for Scottish independence makes you against the UK union, it is simple. If you are voting for Scottish independence because you think Scotland can run its country better alone then that is 1 reason why he is against Scotland being a part of the Uk and 1 reason why he ia against the UK.

What is funny is that Skye seems to favour UKIP/Conservative policies but by voting YES in the referendum and by getting Scottish independence Scotland will never have any Conservative or UKIP parties in power ever again.

Duty281 wrote:Yes, I rather think that Clegg's decision to appear on those two EU debates with Farage was nothing short of suicidal in terms of his political career.

Losing to the Greens.

Is anyone on here voting Lib Dem (just curious!)?

I thought you were?

And in 2020, TopHat, you'll be voting UKIP!

You can't argue with the cycle.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Clegg can only hope the Greens don't finish above him .......On Thursday

Or we may see a challenge.........

We can only hope they do... 

They definitely will. Somehow I think the SNP will finish above the LD

5 years is a long time in politics......

Exactly, we could have had a referendum, be out of the EU, UKIP have disappeared or UKIP could grow.  Clegg could be gone, DC too, for being in charge at the time of losing the Union and alienating his own voters with the "fruitcake" line. Labour sending us back towards the abyss.

Who knows? Six months can be a long time in politics or as DC found out, a few words.

Not sure who will admit to voting Lib Dem in 2015............

Certainly prefer the Tories to this un-principled rabble.........

I'm so peed off with Miliband... am thinking of voting Green on Thursday...

Like usual though I'll be going on my own.........She doesn't vote these days (So UKIP are losing a prospective vote!!) and my eldest will be on his X box...

Still think David would have done a better/more competitive job than Ed......

He would have been my pick.......

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He would have been my pick.......

Alan johnson for me or harriet harman

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He would have been my pick.......

He was who both my folks voted for (Lab party members) and who was leading by normal member votes until AV kicked in and the unions were able to shoe-horn Red Ed into place.

Given Ed's apparent 'distancing' since, looks like that was a mistake all round really.

In fairness he had to distance himself.....Unite have been a complete embarrassment....

Just a mess Labour at the moment......Not all Ed's fault..I mean apart from Balls who else do you see from his shadow cabinet on the TV??

Bunch of lightweights..

Personally I think Labour aren't making use of two of their strongest MPs, two dynamic and intelligent young guys with good backstories and seemingly bright futures - Umunna and Lammy.

Stella Creasy and Gloria del piero are pretty sexy chicks who can hold their own...

Get them on TV more...

More Esther Mcvey too, reminds me of an early Thatcher  

She's alright till she opens her mouth

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:She's alright till she opens her mouth

  

We have known for years that they have wanted a Federal States of Europe (Hitler, comes to mind) thank heavens we have had enough voices to prevent it over the years. All we hear about is globalisation, global village, new world order, one world currency, one world religion. Bush, Blair Brown even the pope has mentioned it. This is the elites plan for a new world order. Anyone who is interested in finding out about this should google the Georgia Stones. Rothschilds, the pope, Prince Phillip, GW Bush, Blair, Brown are a few of these supporters.


Just glad that there are so many Europeans who are wishing UKIP does well and we leave the EU, knowing that this would cause the domino effect.

Oligarchy is such a dangerous ideology.

Remember Prince Phillip a few years ago and talking about how he would come back as a virus and kill 90% of the worlds population?