MEP Elections

First topic message reminder :

It's the European Parliament Elections on May 22nd, with UKIP hoping to gain the most seats after second place last time out, with Labour and Liberal Democrats looking to hold onto their seats.

But, does anyone care? Only one in three people voted in the last elections, but there seems to be more of a media interest, especially with the TV debates between Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg, which if you haven't seen are worth a watch. Could it be argued that by Labour and Conservatives not showing to the debates, that UKIP and LibDem will gain?

It seems that this year, there will be a higher turnout but will it be a significant amount? UKIP are certainly a more real opposition and will surely gain seats, with the opinion polls showing UKIP are likely to win.

He is on Sunday politics now.

Derbymanc wrote:Of course he would, only if they'd vote his way though. CS is completely incapable of seeing something from anyone else's point of view and basically says your racist when you don't agree.

It's very annoying and stifles the debate, I also find it very worrying that he is incapable of reading Skye's explanations, Duties point by point explanations and even the MODS (Rowley's) explanation of it all. It is people like that that stop us being able to have a full debate on the issues and stop us getting all the facts.

Skye's political views do not make sense. If he is anti-UK whih is what he is considring he is in favour of independence then he should not be voting for a pro Uk unionist party.

Do you wish to raise the age of criminal responsibility to fourteen, C_S?

Duty281 wrote:Well I'm merely referring to how when the EU decide to give the prisoners the vote, our elected members of Parliament will be unable to do anything about it as the EU enforces their will onto people who don't necessarily want it.

Or the same with the age of criminal responsibility - I hear the EU want to lift that to 14, which would be disastrous.

Still, we can't do anything about it as a country if it happens...unless we leave the EU and regain our sovereign power.

It's all about control of our judicial system and parliamentary sovereignty. Both of which we don't have under the EU.

We can't do anything about the Kyoto agreement or the laws the UN makes or Nato treaties, should we leave those organisatons too?

We are over represented in the EU parliament with 10% of European Meps being from the UK.

But once again I highlight the point that you are anti-EU solely because you don't like EU immiogration and you don't like SOME EU laws.

Duty281 wrote:Do you wish to raise the age of criminal responsibility to fourteen, C_S?

If I don't believe in workers rights should we leave the EU?

Well I can't help you with reading ability, so I suppose I'll just have to leave it there.

ComRes have UKIP nine percentage points ahead of Labour, who are in second, which is a greater margin than most polls.

The Lib Dems might finish fifth behind the Greens.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Of course he would, only if they'd vote his way though. CS is completely incapable of seeing something from anyone else's point of view and basically says your racist when you don't agree.

It's very annoying and stifles the debate, I also find it very worrying that he is incapable of reading Skye's explanations, Duties point by point explanations and even the MODS (Rowley's) explanation of it all. It is people like that that stop us being able to have a full debate on the issues and stop us getting all the facts.

Skye's political views do not make sense. If he is anti-UK whih is what he is considring he is in favour of independence then he should not be voting for a pro Uk unionist party.

Anti-UK?      Same old, same old. NO point with CS anymore. As said, i would be content either way.

Duty281 wrote:Well I can't help you with reading ability, so I suppose I'll just have to leave it there.

Well your argument is basically that you don't like immigration or some EU law. You haven't given any other substantial reasons.

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Of course he would, only if they'd vote his way though. CS is completely incapable of seeing something from anyone else's point of view and basically says your racist when you don't agree.

It's very annoying and stifles the debate, I also find it very worrying that he is incapable of reading Skye's explanations, Duties point by point explanations and even the MODS (Rowley's) explanation of it all. It is people like that that stop us being able to have a full debate on the issues and stop us getting all the facts.

Skye's political views do not make sense. If he is anti-UK whih is what he is considring he is in favour of independence then he should not be voting for a pro Uk unionist party.

Anti-UK?       Same old, same old. NO point with CS anymore. As said, i would be content either way.

I didn't think what I said was controversial, if you want Scotland to break away from the UK and you will be voting YES in the refenerndum on independence then that means you are anti-UK........

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Well I can't help you with reading ability, so I suppose I'll just have to leave it there.

Well your argument is basically that you don't like immigration or some EU law. You haven't given any other substantial reasons.

Well there you go, you just proved my point.

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Well I can't help you with reading ability, so I suppose I'll just have to leave it there.

Well your argument is basically that you don't like immigration or some EU law. You haven't given any other substantial reasons.

Well there you go, you just proved my point.

yeh sure I have   

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Well I can't help you with reading ability, so I suppose I'll just have to leave it there.

Well your argument is basically that you don't like immigration or some EU law. You haven't given any other substantial reasons.

Well there you go, you just proved my point.

I have seen many of your reasons Duty.

It is obvious what CS is trying to do.

skyeman wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Well I can't help you with reading ability, so I suppose I'll just have to leave it there.

Well your argument is basically that you don't like immigration or some EU law. You haven't given any other substantial reasons.

Well there you go, you just proved my point.

I have seen many of your reasons Duty.

It is ovious what CS is trying to do.

All duty has done is sub-divide his points but they fall into the bracket of 2 issues: immigration and EU law.

Skye what do you dislike more the EU or the UK?

I didn't know the EU being undemocratic fell into the bracket of immigration or law.

Duty281 wrote:I didn't know the EU being undemocratic fell into the bracket of immigration or law.

Well technically immigration falls under EU law as well because it was EU law that enabled free movement of persons.

It is democratic because there is an EU parliament and there are elections etc etc

And it's undemocratic because the Parliament has very little power and there are many appointed people within the EU.

Herman Van Rompuy, the damp rag, who voted for him, I wonder?

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Well I can't help you with reading ability, so I suppose I'll just have to leave it there.

Well your argument is basically that you don't like immigration or some EU law. You haven't given any other substantial reasons.

Well there you go, you just proved my point.

I have seen many of your reasons Duty.

It is ovious what CS is trying to do.

All duty has done is sub-divide his points but they fall into the bracket of 2 issues: immigration and EU law.

Skye what do you dislike more the EU or the UK?

I do like the UK CS, just like every Scottish person that i know does. If it is a NO i would be happy with that too. But there is still nothing wrong with people thinking that Scotland could be better off Independant is there?

It is all about the choice, something you don't want to give. Why are you so anti-democracy.

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Well I can't help you with reading ability, so I suppose I'll just have to leave it there.

Well your argument is basically that you don't like immigration or some EU law. You haven't given any other substantial reasons.

Well there you go, you just proved my point.

I have seen many of your reasons Duty.

It is ovious what CS is trying to do.

All duty has done is sub-divide his points but they fall into the bracket of 2 issues: immigration and EU law.

Skye what do you dislike more the EU or the UK?

I do like the UK CS, just like every Scottish person that i know does. If it is a NO i would be happy with that too. But there is still nothing wrong with people thinking that Scotland could be better off Independant is there?

It is all about the choice, something you don't want to give.  Why are you so anti-democracy.

When I say you dislike the UK I am talking politically. So politically you dislike the UK as shown by you voting YES in the referendum.

What do you dislike more, the EU or the UK?

I dislike a few things about both.

The same with the SNP, again, all about choice, why don't you want to give choice?

skyeman wrote:I dislike a few things about both.

Why do you want Scottish independence. You have stated you think Scotland will be better off alone so why do you think that? What are you not happy with right now? What improvements will an independent Scotland have on your life such as cost of living etc?

I did not state that at all, go and check.

skyeman wrote:I did not state that at all, go and check.

Why do you want Scottish independence from the UK?

Great talent up here, independence could allow Scotland to build a stronger and more competitive country, by putting economic control in the hands of its own people and then the big decisions about Scotland and about the future, can then be taken by the people who care most about Scotland and the people who actually live here.

Much like all them Lib's, Labour and conservatives who will be voting for UKIP on Thursday think.

Earthquake coming. Give the referendum.

Duty281 wrote: He still trots out the wholly untrue "3 million jobs lost" line every time.

Is this statement any more guilty of hyperbole than Farage's extremely questionable claim it costs us £55m a day to be in the EU he is so fond of trotting out?

This is what bores me with political debates on here. Nearly all politicians are, to varying degrees guilty of making statements that are at worst just false or at best a misrepresentation of a more nuanced or complex picture. However those that involve themselves in political debates on here are only too happy to leap on and repeat such statements made by those they don't care for, whilst happily ignoring any number of similar such statements from those they support.

Technically, that figure could be argued to be true. He's saying the cost is £55 million a day, he isn't taking into account what we get back because he's just looking at the cost price, and some estimates I've seen make that figure true.

It's a difficult one to judge, though, because the estimates do vary.

Clegg's three milion jobs estimate, however, dates from a very outdated peace of research conducted fourteen years agoand has proven to be false numerous times.

In this instance, Farage is spinning, Clegg is lying.

Rowley wrote:

Duty281 wrote: He still trots out the wholly untrue "3 million jobs lost" line every time.

Is this statement any more guilty of hyperbole than Farage's extremely questionable claim it costs us £55m a day to be in the EU he is so fond of trotting out?

This is what bores me with political debates on here. Nearly all politicians are, to varying degrees guilty of making statements that are at worst just false or at best a misrepresentation of a more nuanced or complex picture. However those that involve themselves in political debates on here are only too happy to leap on and repeat such statements made by those they don't care for, whilst happily ignoring any number of similar such statements from those they support.

A rather measured reply Geoff, this is why we don't want you here.

kingraf wrote:

Rowley wrote:

Duty281 wrote: He still trots out the wholly untrue "3 million jobs lost" line every time.

Is this statement any more guilty of hyperbole than Farage's extremely questionable claim it costs us £55m a day to be in the EU he is so fond of trotting out?

This is what bores me with political debates on here. Nearly all politicians are, to varying degrees guilty of making statements that are at worst just false or at best a misrepresentation of a more nuanced or complex picture. However those that involve themselves in political debates on here are only too happy to leap on and repeat such statements made by those they don't care for, whilst happily ignoring any number of similar such statements from those they support.

A rather measured reply Geoff, this is why we don't want you here.

You have hurt my feelings King   Some posts are more measured than others though 

Duty281 wrote:Technically, that figure could be argued to be true. He's saying the cost is £55 million a day, he isn't taking into account what we get back because he's just looking at the cost price, and some estimates I've seen make that figure true.

It's a difficult one to judge, though, because the estimates do vary.

Clegg's three milion jobs estimate, however, dates from a very outdated peace of research conducted fourteen years agoand has proven to be false numerous times.

In this instance, Farage is spinning, Clegg is lying.

You could not have illustrated my point any better.

I don't really support Farage, you know, Rowley.

I have little interest in defending him - the man is a hypocrite and not too fond, I reckon, of folks such as I.

If he eventually forces them or indeed speeds up the giving of the referendum i would plant one right on his lips. That is all UKIP wants really.

It looks possible that come the end of the week he will come top in the national vote. This will be an astounding achievement. No political party in modern history has come under such sustained attack and misrepresentation. He cannot boast a single national paper backin him, and several papers are running vendettas against him. Whatever ones view of him, he has got a big pair.

I would have voted for Stalin if he could of gotten the referendum. Maybe the wrong choice because he was not very democratic. But you know what i mean  

Give the majority what they want.

skyeman wrote:

Give the majority what they want.

The majority also are against the bedroom tax so should we have a referendum on that?

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Give the majority what they want.

The majority also are against the bedroom tax so should we have a referendum on that?

One of those measured responces i see  

Leaving aside his negative points, I will always admire Farage for his poise under pressure.

The print media have bullied him.
The fascist left have physically attacked him.
The BBC have ganged up on him.
The PC brigade slur him at every point and turn.

And still Farage stands, unswaying, untoppling, fighting to the very end. As Skyeman says, it will be an astounding achievement for him to win the Euro elections.

A good chance awaits shortly after, in Newark, for UKIP to get their first MP in the form of Roger Helmer, an experienced politician.

It's been a heck of a journey from the nothing party they were in 2010, to where they are four years later - the third party in British politics, and the ones that have shaped the agenda more than any other party in the run-up to 2015.

Well played.

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Give the majority what they want.

The majority also are against the bedroom tax so should we have a referendum on that?

One of those measured responces i see  

Well you are arguing to give the majority what they want so in that case should we have had a referendum before going into Iraq? or a referendum on Syria? Or a referendum on the pasty tax?

Grrr...you can only ever get cold pasties from Rowe's now. #cornishproblems

Duty281 wrote:Grrr...you can only ever get cold pasties from Rowe's now. #cornishproblems

  

Maybe we could get a pasty protest party set up and nick upto forty % of LibLabCons voters for such a big issue. Boy would they be bricking it 


Have LibLabCon ever lied about pasties?

Right on! I 'spect we could set up this protest group dreckly..be 'ansum job once done me lover! #cornwall

skyeman wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Grrr...you can only ever get cold pasties from Rowe's now. #cornishproblems

  

Maybe we could get a pasty protest party set up and nick upto forty % of LibLabCons voters for such a big issue. Boy would they be bricking it 


Have LibLabCon ever lied about pasties?

Last time I checked UKIP won 0 seats at the GE.

Skye I am still waiting for you to tell me what you dislike more, the EU or the UK? Youa re anti- both based on your political support so which are you anti most?

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Grrr...you can only ever get cold pasties from Rowe's now. #cornishproblems

  

Maybe we could get a pasty protest party set up and nick upto forty % of LibLabCons voters for such a big issue. Boy would they be bricking it 


Have LibLabCon ever lied about pasties?

Last time I checked UKIP won 0 seats at the GE.

Skye I am still waiting for you to tell me what you dislike more, the EU or the UK? Youa re anti- both based on your political support so which are you anti most?

Already told you i am not anti UK and not politically either, i would be just as happy if it were a NO.

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Grrr...you can only ever get cold pasties from Rowe's now. #cornishproblems

  

Maybe we could get a pasty protest party set up and nick upto forty % of LibLabCons voters for such a big issue. Boy would they be bricking it 


Have LibLabCon ever lied about pasties?

Last time I checked UKIP won 0 seats at the GE.

Skye I am still waiting for you to tell me what you dislike more, the EU or the UK? Youa re anti- both based on your political support so which are you anti most?

Already told you i am not anti UK and not politically either, i would be just as happy if it were a NO.

Mayybe the word anti is confusing you, lets change it to against. You must be against scotland being a part of the UK considering you are voting in favour of independence. So what are you against most, the EU or the UK?

I am not against the UK and do not dislike the UK. I think it is yourself who is confused.

Have we not been here before.

skyeman wrote:I am not against the UK and do not dislike the UK. I think it is yourself who is confused.

Have we not been here before.

You say you are not against scotland being part of the UK yet you are voting for scotland to be independent from the UK.

Great talent up here, independence could allow Scotland to build a stronger and more competitive country, by putting economic control in the hands of its own people and then the big decisions about Scotland and about the future, can then be taken by the people who care most about Scotland and the people who actually live here.

That is not being against or disliking the UK. Don't be so black and white, try thinking in colour.

Who knows, you may even vote for UKIP, like many of the party you support 

skyeman wrote:Great talent up here, independence could allow Scotland to build a stronger and more competitive country, by putting economic control in the hands of its own people and then the big decisions about Scotland and about the future, can then be taken by the people who care most about Scotland and the people who actually live here.

That is not being against or disliking the UK. Don't be so black and white, try thinking in colour.

If you are voting for scottish independence that means you are against scotland remaining in the UK.... I will be black and white about it because that is what it is, a referendum with a yes or no question. Do you want scotland to remain part of the uk or do you want scotland to seperate from the UK. You have decided that you want Scotland to be seperate hence why you are voting for seperation hence why you are against Scotland remaining in the UK.

I will add that the above is your explanation about why it would be better for scotland to NOT be part of the UK which is your arguments in favour of independence which highlights you are against the UK. It is very simple.

skyeman wrote:Who knows, you may even vote for UKIP, like many of the party you support 

I have far more worries than 'the EU are trying to give prisoners the vote' hence why I will not be voting for UKIP as they are a 1 policy party. Far more pressing matters that the other parties represent.

UKIP aren't a one policy party, but feel free to make it up.

Duty281 wrote:UKIP aren't a one policy party, but feel free to make it up.

My friend is voting for UKIP because Nigel Farage has the same surname as him....