MEP Elections

First topic message reminder :

It's the European Parliament Elections on May 22nd, with UKIP hoping to gain the most seats after second place last time out, with Labour and Liberal Democrats looking to hold onto their seats.

But, does anyone care? Only one in three people voted in the last elections, but there seems to be more of a media interest, especially with the TV debates between Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg, which if you haven't seen are worth a watch. Could it be argued that by Labour and Conservatives not showing to the debates, that UKIP and LibDem will gain?

It seems that this year, there will be a higher turnout but will it be a significant amount? UKIP are certainly a more real opposition and will surely gain seats, with the opinion polls showing UKIP are likely to win.

A wonderful day for UKIP, and a seat in every part of Great Britain.

Very impressed with how well they did in Wales, in particular.

There may be a very real chance of Roger Helmer becoming MP in Newark in a couple of weeks time as well.

Better than expected - advance UKIP, long live the cause of anti-EU politics. Long live the right-wing of Britain.

God Save the Queen.

Duty281 wrote: He aspires to have a points-based system, one like Canada or Australia,

The current system we have is a points based system, one which was modelled almost exclusively on the Australian system.

Rowley wrote:

Duty281 wrote: He aspires to have a points-based system, one like Canada or Australia,

The current system we have is a points based system, one which was modelled almost exclusively on the Australian system.

I never knew that (you learn something new every day.)

Does it point to the system that's broken then, OR the people/party that are running it.

Rowley wrote:

Duty281 wrote: He aspires to have a points-based system, one like Canada or Australia,

The current system we have is a points based system, one which was modelled almost exclusively on the Australian system.

Indeed we do, wasn't it set up under the premiership of Gordon Brown? And it covers everything outside of the EU.

It doesn't work, obviously, because we have an open border to the European Union, something which is out of Westminster's control, and leaves us with largely an uncontrolled mess in terms of immigration.

To be fully in control of our borders, and to preside over total control of immigration, we need to leave the European Union. No amount of negotiation with the EU will regain that control, because freedom of movement is one of the core principles of the European Union.

Is a very difficult question Derby. I have worked in immigration for the last eight years, in both the public and private sector and am not going to try and pretend abuse in the system is not rife. However the same is true of many a system, such as the benefits system. Do we scrap the whole system and hurt the legitimate people who the system was set up for? With immigration if we do that, we hurt ourselves because the City, the NHS and our top universities rely hugely on immigrant workers.

Would guess what Farage would argue is he wants a system that is more robust at rooting out the abuse and solely exists to bring in the brightest and the best. However, with varying levels of success, this is what everyone who has been in charge of the system has tried to do. What he will almost certainly find is this laudable aim is easier to talk about than achieve.

There is also a risk, as already alluded to by lion, that an overly aggressive approach to immigration can end up being counter intuitive. If you are the brightest and the best, by the nature of your skills you have options. People entering the job market with doctorates from MIT or MBA's from INSEAD are not short of offers, and the draw of overpriced housing and crap weather does not imbue them with an overwhelming desire to make their way to the UK at any cost. If we have a system that is too complicated, too expensive or that is perceived as unwelcoming to migrants, we run the risk of them looking at the other options available to them.

This may seem like scaremongering on my part, but believe me as someone who works in the industry, it is already something we are hearing from both companies and individuals. If his aim is to severely curtail our economic ties with Europe, putting in place an immigration system that is seen as unwelcoming and overly punitive does pose the question as to who we intend to do trade with under UKIP?

Cheers for that Rowley, It's good to hear from someone in the system so to speak as I do think we sometimes forget it's not as easy as we make out.

I'm still very much for strict immigration rules, but not necessarily a complete overhaul. Personally if you commit a crime you should be immediately deported with no return for say 5 years.

The way I look at it is if I have a guest to my house who makes a mess etc, I would first kick him out and then not have them back until they could show me they wouldn't do it again.

Leave the EU and close the border with Europe and this country will be at the whim of China and the US. As part of the single market it puts the UK in a much stronger position than going around trying to negotiate unilateral deals with countries that quite frankly don't see the UK as particularly relevant or important.

If immigration is a mess then its consistent with most other aspects of government in the UK so can't be pinned solely on EU membership. from speaking to some work colleagues who are in the process of applying for British citizenship the system sounds convoluted and inconsistent and a lot more complex than many other countries.  

Morning Rodders,

I don't agree that the country will be at the whim of anyone, there's no reason we can't leave and have good trade links with other countries. As much as people use the EU as a reason for all of our woes (false,) saying that we'll be ruined if we leave is also false.

Your second paragraph is spot on, Every aspect of UK government is overly complicated and doesn't work. Contracts are not thought out properly, too many different rules and not enough people want to work to change things.

Derbymanc wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Yes CS because those experienced ones from labour are doing a cracking job of it   

And A levels is further education not finishing your education, idiot!!

You have on a few occasions started throwing around insults, if you can't behave and not throw around insults I suggest you stop commenting because all you will do is get the thread locked and the section removed.

This so far is may favourite quote of this debate, translates to 'oh no, I've got no way to twist this as it's correct, hmmm i'll say he insulted me'
proving once again that your really not that bright.

For the record i've called you an idiot for your complete inability to listen to what anyone else says and try and twist everything. Even the mods called you out on it TWICE.
I've also called you a liar, for wasting everyones time with your apparent 'you tube' channel. but I'm done now, think i'll follow Duty and Skye's example and have you on ignore.

WHy would I put my part-time business on this forum?? I would be filled with spam. Think before you post.

And you sy I have an inability to listen but that is because you are talking crap. UKIP have 1 policy something which political experts continously bring up and something Duty admitted to   

Perhas you should start listening to me more, you might learn something new   

rodders wrote:Leave the EU and close the border with Europe and this country will be at the whim of China and the US. As part of the single market it puts the UK in a much stronger position than going around trying to negotiate unilateral deals with countries that quite frankly don't see the UK as particularly relevant or important.

If immigration is a mess then its consistent with most other aspects of government in the UK so can't be pinned solely on EU membership. from speaking to some work colleagues who are in the process of applying for British citizenship the system sounds convoluted and inconsistent and a lot more complex than many other countries.  

It would be a scary time for the UK if we did leave Europe. Our economy would be severely hurt due to lack of power for trade. It would be a dark time for the UK.

It would be an even darker time for Scotland if Skye's dream came true and Scotland became independent from the Uk and the EU. They would literally have no economic power at all.

rodders wrote:Leave the EU and close the border with Europe and this country will be at the whim of China and the US. As part of the single market it puts the UK in a much stronger position than going around trying to negotiate unilateral deals with countries that quite frankly don't see the UK as particularly relevant or important.

If immigration is a mess then its consistent with most other aspects of government in the UK so can't be pinned solely on EU membership. from speaking to some work colleagues who are in the process of applying for British citizenship the system sounds convoluted and inconsistent and a lot more complex than many other countries.  

Who wants to close the border with the EU?

The Fourth Lion wrote:Well, UKIP have got their desired landslide.  Now let's see what they do with it and where it leaves us when they've done it.

Nigel Farage is already claiming that his party will definitely win Parliamentary seats next year.  Bold words.  He is clearly feeling ecstatic with his victory in the MEP elections and we can't blame him for crowing.  He was, however, typically coy when asked how many Westminster seats he thought his party would win in the General Election.  Perhaps he's wary of making a David Steele-type "Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government" gaffe.

I find Nick's question above a little odd.  The results in this election are declared by region on a proportional representation basis.   In the South East region, UKIP gained 4 MEP's, Conservative 3, Labour, Green and LibDem 1 each.  I have no idea how the voting in my local area went but on the basis of the above results, I can honestly say that the party I voted for has achieved representation in Brussels.  

I must say that I find the turnout of only 35.4% disappointing.  One might expect that with UKIP on such an electoral high, and greatly in the news at this time, that more people would have gone to the polls.   Does this indicate a degree of apathy with politics in Britain at this time..?  What would the result have been had more people taken the trouble to vote..?

Be that as it may, it's now a done deal and events will take their course over the coming weeks and months.   I for one am not exactly filled with optimism for Britain's future prosperity and standing in the world.  Sending yourself to Coventry is not a good idea.

We're sending out a message that Britain doesn't want to play any more.  We shouldn't be surprised if they eventually stop inviting us to their tables.

What I meant was do you know how your town/city voted? I saw last night that Ukip are outside the top two in Bedford. And I've seen quite a lot of people on twitter who know how their town voted.

Always labour where we are Nick, I think people like seeing nothing get done round here   

Derbymanc wrote:Morning Rodders,

I don't agree that the country will be at the whim of anyone, there's no reason we can't leave and have good trade links with other countries. As much as people use the EU as a reason for all of our woes (false,) saying that we'll be ruined if we leave is also false.

Your second paragraph is spot on, Every aspect of UK government is overly complicated and doesn't work. Contracts are not thought out properly, too many different rules and not enough people want to work to change things.

I think the UK's economy is massively reliant on financial services and foreign direct investment. I can't see how leaving the single market won't have a major impact.

I think there has been a real failing to empower people with the facts regarding the pros and cons of the EU to empower people to make an informed decision. Too much of what is going on is media hysteria about immigration which is stirring up xenophobia and insecurities in working class people who are disconnected from the political class.

Conservatives attempts to play hard ball with their European partners and renegotiate powers back from Brussels have backfired and created a monster. That monster being UKIP and now they have a problem to put them back in the box before the next election.

Derbymanc wrote:Always labour where we are Nick, I think people like seeing nothing get done round here   

We always seem to be split between Lib Dem and Conservative. Current Mayor is Lib Dem.

I think there is a lack of knowledge on the situation by both sides. I don't see why leaving has to have an impact on import or export at all. The only way I could see it majorly changing is sour grapes from other members hiking prices, we don't use the Euro so at the moment I don't see the issue.

Uncontrolled immigration is a problem, and if you don't see it then your looking in the wrong places, BUT a complete stop on all immigration is impossible and as others have pertained too, we do rely on immigration in some areas (something i also think needs remedying,)

The Political class is at this time completely removed form the working class and I think you'd be hard pressed to find that many people that believe ANY of the politicians have any idea on whats going on with the 'man in the street'.

ALL political parties have messed up over the years by promising things and not delivering, The amount of spin that is around these days is ridiculous and has hindered the process due to the fact what people tend to trust now comes down to a gut feeling.

Stats have become meaningless and can be twisted to suit either argument. It does give us more to talk about though :-D

Duty281 wrote:A wonderful day for UKIP, and a seat in every part of Great Britain.

Very impressed with how well they did in Wales, in particular.

There may be a very real chance of Roger Helmer becoming MP in Newark in a couple of weeks time as well.

Better than expected - advance UKIP, long live the cause of anti-EU politics. Long live the right-wing of Britain.

God Save the Queen.

This post was so totally aimed at me  

When are you invading Poland then Duty?

I thought that you were going to ignore me and my UKIP voting ways?

#rightwingandproud

Derbymanc wrote:I think there is a lack of knowledge on the situation by both sides. I don't see why leaving has to have an impact on import or export at all. The only way I could see it majorly changing is sour grapes from other members hiking prices, we don't use the Euro so at the moment I don't see the  issue.

How do you work that out? You think the single market doesn't have an impact on the UK? The ability to freely transfer wealth goods and services amongst EU member states? Or do you envisage the UK negotiating a trade deal akin to Switzerland? I really don't see how this isn't a massive issue, far more significant than that of immigration which is a nothing but a subset of the above.

Duty281 wrote:I thought that you were going to ignore me and my xenophobic voting ways?

#undereducatedandproud

Fixed that for you  

Steffan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I thought that you were going to ignore me and my xenophobic voting ways?

#undereducatedandproud

Fixed that for you  

Tut, tut, tut, Steffan.

I find such a comment relating to education amusing when it comes from you, a fellow who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're".

rodders wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:I think there is a lack of knowledge on the situation by both sides. I don't see why leaving has to have an impact on import or export at all. The only way I could see it majorly changing is sour grapes from other members hiking prices, we don't use the Euro so at the moment I don't see the  issue.

How do you work that out? You think the single market doesn't have an impact on the UK? The ability to freely transfer wealth goods and services amongst EU member states? Or do you envisage the UK negotiating a trade deal akin to Switzerland? I really don't see how this isn't a massive issue, far more significant than that of immigration which is a nothing but a subset of the above.

As I stated we don't use the Euro so I don't really see why it would make a massive difference. Why couldn't we negotiate a trade deal, I don't think that's in the realms of the impossible but if you could explain why not it would help to educate me on this.

I think that a lot of what is said about us leaving the EU is scare mongering to be honest and is a bit like Tesco saying you can only buy there if you live in the area.

Think if we did leave it would also be a boost to our manufacturing industry as by your standards we would have to start doing a lot better which I think we're more than capable of.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27572878

Duty281 wrote:Tut, tut, tut, Steffan.

I find such a comment relating to education amusing when it comes from you, a fellow who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're".

I was educated in Welsh so you will have to excuse my English being a bit below standard at times. Then again I'm sure if Farage gets into power he will eradicate the language much to you're/your? delight. Kinda goes against 'British' values mind doesn't it considering it has been on the island for thousands of years and it was used as a 'British' language (which it is) during World War 2 by British military communications as the Germans couldn't decipher it

Derbymanc wrote:

rodders wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:I think there is a lack of knowledge on the situation by both sides. I don't see why leaving has to have an impact on import or export at all. The only way I could see it majorly changing is sour grapes from other members hiking prices, we don't use the Euro so at the moment I don't see the  issue.

How do you work that out? You think the single market doesn't have an impact on the UK? The ability to freely transfer wealth goods and services amongst EU member states? Or do you envisage the UK negotiating a trade deal akin to Switzerland? I really don't see how this isn't a massive issue, far more significant than that of immigration which is a nothing but a subset of the above.

As I stated we don't use the Euro so I don't really see why it would make a massive difference. Why couldn't we negotiate a trade deal, I don't think that's in the realms of the impossible but if you could explain why not it would help to educate me on this.

I think that a lot of what is said about us leaving the EU is scare mongering to be honest and is a bit like Tesco saying you can only buy there if you live in the area.

Think if we did leave it would also be a boost to our manufacturing industry as by your standards we would have to start doing a lot better which I think we're more than capable of.

Of course its not impossible to negotiate trade deals but that takes time and for the many companies based here to be within the single market this period could be pretty costly and make the UK a pretty unattractive place to base themselves.

Where would this leave Britain with regards of the Trans Atlantic trade and investment partnership? Pretty much out in the cold. There are massive implications of being outside the single market, not sure why you keep mentioning the Eurozone?

Still waiting for a first count here. Could be tight for seat 3, Shinners and DUP sage though.

Duty281 wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I thought that you were going to ignore me and my xenophobic voting ways?

#undereducatedandproud

Fixed that for you  

Tut, tut, tut, Steffan.

I find such a comment relating to education amusing when it comes from you, a fellow who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're".

Duty you are in no position to try and humilate someone for a lack of education considering you failed school.

Steffan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Tut, tut, tut, Steffan.

I find such a comment relating to education amusing when it comes from you, a fellow who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're".

I was educated in Welsh so you will have to excuse my English being a bit below standard at times. Then again I'm sure if Farage gets into power he will eradicate the language much to you're/your? delight. Kinda goes against 'British' values mind doesn't it considering it has been on the island for thousands of years and it was used as a 'British' language (which it is) during World War 2 by British military communications as the Germans couldn't decipher it

Tut, tut, tut, Steffan.

That's no way to talk about the second largest party in Wales (on the basis on last night!).

Rowley wrote:Will tell you all now, this mocking and sneering at people's level of education or what they may do for a job is fast getting tired. It is condescending, deeply insulting and very disrespectful to the users it is directed it. Given this, it needs to stop now. If it doesn't folk will be banned, and almost inevitably threads will be locked/removed.

As and when this does happen, please don't come whinging about over zealous modding, because those of you who indulge in this, which is not you all to be fair, have been warned.

Apologies if I've overstepped the line at any point, I've been merely defending myself.

I put C_S on the ignore list as well so I have no idea what he's saying, and won't rise to it any further.

How the hell did all of this escalate so quickly? Shame on all of you.

I like it when mods write in red, its all ominous, and stuff. Always imagine it's written with an angry face.

kingraf wrote:How the hell did all of this escalate so quickly? Shame on all of you.

I like it when mods write in red, its all ominous, and stuff. Always imagine it's written with an angry face.

It tends to be raf

Duty281 wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Tut, tut, tut, Steffan.

I find such a comment relating to education amusing when it comes from you, a fellow who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're".

I was educated in Welsh so you will have to excuse my English being a bit below standard at times. Then again I'm sure if Farage gets into power he will eradicate the language much to you're/your? delight. Kinda goes against 'British' values mind doesn't it considering it has been on the island for thousands of years and it was used as a 'British' language (which it is) during World War 2 by British military communications as the Germans couldn't decipher it

Tut, tut, tut, Steffan.

That's no way to talk about the second largest party in Wales (on the basis on last night!).

It is a one off. People will soon go back to voting for they're normal parties in the general elections

Let's be honest they may have one seat in Europe from Wales but Farage and Co couldn't run a P up in a brewery if they ever really got in any kind of decent power

It's good then that Farage doesn't want any "decent power", as he plans to retire when Britain are out of the European Union.

Although he will, in all probability, be a MP after the General Election next year.

The EU is the biggest power!

In regards to Westminster, they would fit right in. Labour nearly destroyed the UK. Cameron and Cleggy useless lying barstewards.

Duty281 wrote:It's good then that Farage doesn't want any "decent power", as he plans to retire when Britain are out of the European Union

So you are saying that UKIP will declare themselves obsolete if and when the UK is out of the EU?

And Nick Clegg has said he won't quit as leader of the Liberal Democrats.

More proof, not that any greater amount is necessary, that he is only in it for himself, and not the interests of his party or the people he is supposed to represent.

The Liberal Democrats, after taking a hammering in the local and European elections, have nil chance of making any progress in next year's General Election with that patronising politican at the helm.

The only way forward is to have a new leader, and hope the voting public suffer some sort of amnesia in the run-up to 2015. Oh well, needs must and all that.

kingraf wrote:How the hell did all of this escalate so quickly? Shame on all of you.

I like it when mods write in red, its all ominous, and stuff. Always imagine it's written with an angry face.

problem with political threads is that it will turn into chaos. I thought that it would change but I have been on this site for about 15 months and every political thread has turned into a slanging match.

Steffan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:It's good then that Farage doesn't want any "decent power", as he plans to retire when Britain are out of the European Union

So you are saying that UKIP will declare themselves obsolete if and when the UK is out of the EU?

I have no idea of what UKIP's intention as a whole is if and when Britain exit the EU, but I know Farage has said he plans to retire when he's 60 and Britain are out of the EU. He also has a dream of completely defeating the Conservative party, rendering them obsolete, similar to what happened in dear, sweet Canada.

Maybe, in Farage's dream world, UKIP wil fill the void left by the Conservative party, while he enjoys his dream retirement.

And that's probably all it will amount to: a dream.

Lets be honest when you have people correcting you on your spelling (its a forum for goodness sake not an English exam) and posting hashtags saying 'Right Wing and Proud' there is always going to be a bit of controversy

In some ways I admire Duty. He is kinda like that Katie Hopkins...no real purpose...but can make some controversial statements just to watch the lambs come to the slaughter

Yes well if people can't debate without resorting to crude insults, as a minority on here have showed over this thread, simply because they disagree with my political stance, or anyone else for that matter, then that's just sad and shows them up for their crude lack of intellect.

For instance, I don't agree with the BNP - and were delighted that they got wiped out in these Euro elections - but I wouldn't resort so low as to anti-democratic, backward actions, such as assault, as some people did yesterday in Manchester, or others did in 2009.

If you don't agree with someone, it doesn't give you an excuse to throw pathetic, childish insults around, or, worse still, resort to physical violence.

Defeat those you disagree with with logic and sensible arguments; that is the most intelligent way, and a true mark of a civilised community.

I would therefore like to apologise if I have, at any point over this thread, behaved myself in a crass and/or insensitive fashion. I would like to believe that I am neither of those things, and strive to conduct myself in the proper way.

If I was a political somebody in Westminster I'd probably be more worried that 66% of the country didn't even vote

Olly wrote:If I was a political somebody in Westminster I'd probably be more worried that 66% of the country didn't even vote

That is indeed a concern, and one that doesn't seem to be brought up prominently, but I feel that the only way forward in increasing voter turn-out is to have compulsory political education from Primary school.

And if the main politicians were more in touch with the working-class person, that too would be a great benefit.

I could certainly see the arguments for compulsory voting as well.

"Here I am, of Asian birth, of Asian parentage, Muslim, and I have been selected by this so-called racist party."

Those are the words of Amjad Bashir, a newly elected UKIP MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber, completely disproving any false allegations that UKIP are a racist party/a neo-nazi party/an anti non-white party or any other such rubbish that has been spouted in the lead-up to these elections.

Well done, sir.

Only 32% voted in Wales. Even as a proud Welshman I have to admit that is pretty disgraceful to be honest. Think that Cameron and Clegg have given off the impression though that it doesnt matter who you vote for they will always jump into bed with someone else just to get a slice of power

Steffan wrote:Lets be honest when you have people correcting you on your spelling (its a forum for goodness sake not an English exam) and posting hashtags saying 'Right Wing and Proud' there is always going to be a bit of controversy

In some ways I admire Duty. He is kinda like that Katie Hopkins...no real purpose...but can make some controversial statements just to watch the lambs come to the slaughter

Hashtag right wing and proud     It is so cringy it is funny. In a few years when he has grown up he will look back on that comment in embarrassment.

Duty281 wrote:"Here I am, of Asian birth, of Asian parentage, Muslim, and I have been selected by this so-called racist party."

Those are the words of Amjad Bashir, a newly elected UKIP MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber, completely disproving any false allegations that UKIP are a racist party/a neo-nazi party/an anti non-white party or any other such rubbish that has been spouted in the lead-up to these elections.

Well done, sir.

One minute you are saying that there are too many immigrants in this country taking our jobs and the next you are applauding UKIP for hiring an immigrant..... make your mind up.

In the Republic the Tanaiste (DPM) Eamon Gilmore has resigned. Leader of the Labour Party the junior partner in a coalition government that got a kicking at the local and European elections for failing to deliver on pre election promises.

Sound familar?

Promising a renegotiation of the bailout and "Frankfurt's Way or Labour's Way" gave Labour it's strongest ever position. It came back to bite them.

Dave. wrote:In the Republic the Tanaiste (DPM) Eamon Gilmore has resigned. Leader of the Labour Party the junior partner in a coalition government that got a kicking at the local and European elections for failing to deliver on pre election promises.

Sound familar?

Promising a renegotiation of the bailout and "Frankfurt's Way or Labour's Way" gave Labour it's strongest ever position. It came back to bite them.  

Very familiar, they never learn. They take everybody for fools.

Dave, serious question. In your eyes and people you know, is London seen as any thing different from the rest of England.

It just seems that there is a disconnect at the moment over here.