MEP Elections

First topic message reminder :

It's the European Parliament Elections on May 22nd, with UKIP hoping to gain the most seats after second place last time out, with Labour and Liberal Democrats looking to hold onto their seats.

But, does anyone care? Only one in three people voted in the last elections, but there seems to be more of a media interest, especially with the TV debates between Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg, which if you haven't seen are worth a watch. Could it be argued that by Labour and Conservatives not showing to the debates, that UKIP and LibDem will gain?

It seems that this year, there will be a higher turnout but will it be a significant amount? UKIP are certainly a more real opposition and will surely gain seats, with the opinion polls showing UKIP are likely to win.

It's why I find the idea of any leader of a major political party (Yes, I'm including UKIP in that) being actually in touch with the regualr person hilarious. People slate Miliband for not being in touch, one of his many faults IMO, but the fact is that no-one is. The theory that people vote for Farage because he loves the pub and smokes (which makes him in touch with the regular man) is amusing and depressing in equal measure.

The difference being that he is not a smug metropolitan elite type that treats the people with contempt.

skyeman wrote:The difference being that he is not a smug metropolitan elite type that treats the people with contempt.

I find him very smug but it is rather pointless as finding someone smug is subjective.

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Am I uneducated, in your opinion, C_S? (I certainly don't fit the middle-aged bracket)

Well you failed your A-levels....

And there was me thinking I got 3 'B's!

Nick Griffen went to Oxford uni.......

Anyway I'm off to watch the UCL final.

He is an educated fellow, just with an incredibly misguided set of ideals.

When the UKIP spokeperson said that Londoners avoided UKIP because they were more educated that could be interpreted in many different ways. Was she talking about basic education ( which is what you have as completing your A-levels is merely just finishing 'school') advanced education such as degrees/master degrees/diplomas or was she talking about something completely different such as politically educated.

I think FourthLion hit the nail on the head with this comment;

FourthLion wrote:There are a lot of new UKIP councillors who have no experience whatsoever in the running of local government. For almost all of them, tomorrow will be the first time in their lives they have stepped inside a council chamber.

The people who voted for them may yet come to regret doing so when their local services become a mess, their council tax is mis-spent and previously well run councils become a squabbling rabble.

Can you imagine how these amateurs, with no interest in politics save for getting Britain out of Europe, will be able to brief the people who run the schools..? How will they negotiate with the hospital managers..? What funds will they allocate to the various budget managers of all the departments in the Town Hall...? They may be the fox in the Westminster hen house, but they might just be out of their depth in the local government jungle.

Sometimes, folks, you get what you vote for. Good luck.

A politically smart person would see that UKIP are a 1 policy party and that policy is the EU. Voting for UKIP at local elections will do nothing whatsoever in helping UKIp achieve their aims of UK independence from the EU, all it will do is put a bunch of inexperienced people in positions of power in local communities who have no idea how to spend council tax, or what road works need to be done or funding for local schools etc.

Yes CS because those experienced ones from labour are doing a cracking job of it   

And A levels is further education not finishing your education, idiot!!

Yes, I thought A Levels were further education as well!

And a politically educated person would see that UKIP have more than one policy, but they only have one central poiicy, and that is the drum they have been banging because these have been the European elections.

I'm sure they will focus on a more wide sweep of policies in the lead-up to 2015, including their economic and energy policy being set up, but they will still focus on their one central policy the most: leaving the EU.

So what Suzanne Evans actualy said (the woman who made the cultured, young, educated comment):

"Well it's interesting because UKIP are increasingly attracting the cultured, educated and young, I'd certainly put myself into two of those brackets, but maybe not in London, no, but there is work to do.

We haven't really got our message across in London, as you say we do have a more media-savvy-well-educated population in London, and they are more likely, I think, to have read some of the negative press about us, and I think they'd be more likely to believe it, whereas people outside of London are far more cynical."

So not at all what the media would have you believe she said.

Derbymanc wrote:Yes CS because those experienced ones from labour are doing a cracking job of it   

And A levels is further education not finishing your education, idiot!!

You have on a few occasions started throwing around insults, if you can't behave and not throw around insults I suggest you stop commenting because all you will do is get the thread locked and the section removed.

Duty281 wrote:Yes, I thought A Levels were further education as well!

And a politically educated person would see that UKIP have more than one policy, but they only have one central poiicy, and that is the drum they have been banging because these have been the European elections.

I'm sure they will focus on a more wide sweep of policies in the lead-up to 2015, including their economic and energy policy being set up, but they will still focus on their one central policy the most: leaving the EU.

A-Levels are basic education.

Further Education, C_S, for they are not compulsory. GCSEs are basic education. And I find your "stop throwing around insults" line highly ironic.

Duty281 wrote:So what Suzanne Evans actualy said (the woman who made the cultured, young, educated comment):

"Well it's interesting because UKIP are increasingly attracting the cultured, educated and young, I'd certainly put myself into two of those brackets, but maybe not in London, no, but there is work to do.

We haven't really got our message across in London, as you say we do have a more media-savvy-well-educated population in London, and they are more likely, I think, to have read some of the negative press about us, and I think they'd be more likely to believe it, whereas people outside of London are far more cynical."

So not at all what the media would have you believe she said.

Taking that quote she is basically saying that because londoners are more educated and are more media-savvy they are less likely to believe the nonsense that UKIP are spouting.......

She literally said that Londoners are more educated and more media savvy and are more likely to read the newspaper and see negative comments about UKIP and because they are more educated they are more likely to believe those negative comments.

Duty281 wrote:Further Education, C_S, for they are not compulsory. GCSEs are basic education. And I find your "stop throwing around insults" line highly ironic.

It is why I put 'school' not school. Basic education is seen up to 18 in my eyes and many countries eyes including the Conservative party who want to increase the school leaving age to 18.

Further education no matter how you spin it is basic education, A-Levels are basic education. Doesn't matter if you voluntarily agree to it or it is forced on you by law it is a basic education.

Duty281 wrote:

And a politically educated person would see that UKIP have more than one policy, but they only have one central poiicy, and that is the drum they have been banging because these have been the European elections.

I'm sure they will focus on a more wide sweep of policies in the lead-up to 2015, including their economic and energy policy being set up, but they will still focus on their one central policy the most: leaving the EU.

UKIP have 1 policy which is the EU. It is why the more educated and media savvy population of London ignored UKIP.

You can argue all you want that UKIP have more than 1 policy but we both know that is not true. Ask someone on the street what it is that UKIP wants and they will tell you about the EU, ask them to name you some non-EU UKIP policies and the person on the street wouldn't be able to. Reason being is that UKIP campaign solely about the EU and all their funding goes into campaigning about the EU and thus they are a 1 policy party who only care about the EU.

The more educated and media savvy population of london can see that UKIP are a 1 policy party and that is why UKIP failed miserably in local elections in london.

Yeah..think I'll do what Skye did and whack you on the ignore list.

You're beyond help.

Champagne_Socialist wrote: Basic education is seen up to 18 in my eyes

The moon is made of cheese in my eyes. Does not make it so.

Rowley wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote: Basic education is seen up to 18 in my eyes

The moon is made of cheese in my eyes. Does not make it so.

I remember reading that the Conservatives increased the age of leaving school to 18 but I never looked into it. Just looked on google and it seems that depending on when you were born you have to remain in some form of education up until 18.

Duty281 wrote:Yeah..think I'll do what Skye did and whack you on the ignore list.

You're beyond help.

I'm just quoting UKIP   

The more educated and media savvy population of london ignored UKIP. That is what UKIP said not me   It highlights my point that educated voters who are politically educated and media savvy will see through UKIP and see them as a 1 policy party only.

Theresa May still wishes to cut net migration levels.

You can't do anything until we're out of the European Union, my dear. Until that happy day, our borders are open at levels beyond Britain's control.

Exactly. Nothing any of them can do in reality.

Now lets wait for the shock waves from the EU elections tonight and lets see if Ed Miliband still shows contempt for voters by denying us a referendum.

UKIP and Labour will, it seems judging by some polls, secure the same amount of seats at the ineffective European Parliament, but, crucially, UKIP will likely have a slightly larger share of the vote, meaning they can claim to have won a national election...a crucial crowing point in the lead-up to 2015.

No results for Scotland until tomorrow but it looks like the Lib Dems will lose their only MEP to the SNP.

And if it were a YES vote in September, Labour can forget about a majority next year, even with the eighteen month transition period because it now looks likely that the Scottish MP's will not be able to stand in 2015.

Remember Wallace, vote YES.

Yes...to Scottish Independence!

No more Labour any more!

Maybe London should be made to build a brick wall around it like the Escape from New York film to protect the rest of the UK  

A lot of interesting discussion on this subject but as usual, no real consensus of opinion. Oh well.... ever was it thus so.

I would feel a lot happier about UKIP if they had more depth to them and weren't so blatantly populist. Farage has gone for the tactic of simply hitting the buttons that strike a chord with the Daily Mail / Sun reading section of Britain. Unfortunately, that is quite a sizeable chunk of the newspaper buying public and this gives him a lot of publicity because newspapers respond to people who.... er.... buy newspapers. That's not politics, it's market forces.

From where I sit, anybody who buys the "Hale-fellow-well-met" shtick of being the ordinary bloke in the pub who likes a fag and a pint really is buying a pup.

He was educated at Dulwich College, a private school, and his father was a City of London stockbroker. Indeed, Nigel became a stockbroker himself, trading in commodities in the London Metal Exchange. Apparently, he made a nice little earner out of that. It doesn't make him a bad person, but the financial meltdown of 2008 was largely the creation of casino bankers and stockbrokers. Not exactly men you can trust, are they..?

So.... we have a middle class, private school educated stockbroker passing himself off as a working class bloke who likes a pint in his local pub and is often shown on TV and in newspapers with his favourite prop... a pint of beer.

I cannot recall, however, seeing him actually drink any of the beer. Could that have something to do with a profile of him, broadcast on BBC Radio 4, that he is an alcoholic...? Interesting thought, that. To the best of my knowledge, he never denied the allegation. Perhaps some of his supporters on here can clear that point up.

Nigel Farage strikes me as a "smoke and mirrors" politician. What you see is not necessarily what you get, although he is very successful in promoting exactly the opposite image.

His political stance is entirely negative. He is absolutely crystal clear on what he intends to destroy..... Britain's membership of the European Union. But when questioned in any depth on what he intends to create in a post EU Britain, he becomes vague and resorts to sweeping statements that have no basis in evidence, merely insisting that everything will all be alright. He then steers the conversation back to the theme he knows he can rely on..... Immigration. Get rid of the foreigners and all will be well. The recovery will take care of itself.

The three major parties make mistakes... and a lot of them. They have their faults and their failings, but what they do do, is produce structured manifestos with clear political aims..... And their talk is mostly about what they intend to do for us on the things that matter to the country: Education... the economy.... The NHS..... Armed Forces..... the Welfare State. That's what really matters. All we get from UKIP is Europe, Europe, Europe.

I have no idea what UKIP's manifesto says on any of the above things because they never talk about them. How will their policies affect the State Pension I will be drawing in the not-too-distant future..? Everything UKIP says indicates they are Welfare State averse, but hey.... I've paid my National Insurance Stamp all my life. I've contributed to the system and I think I'm entitled to a decent pension. I know where Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems stand on this issue, but UKIP..? Nope. I have no idea. Frankly, Nigel Farage's generally hard line right wing attitudes do not inspire confidence.

I think we can safely add "One Trick Pony" to the "Smoke and Mirrors" tag.

Nigel Farage is charismatic and can be charming. He uses gimmicks and rhetoric well and thumps the tub for his cause relentlessly and to the exclusion of all else. But it's all very shallow. I see no depth to the man or his political message.

Rather than not liking him, I simply cannot trust him. Rather than being unconvinced by his arguments, I'm suspicious of what he doesn't seem to be capable of arguing. Rather than being attracted to the "ordinary-bloke-in-the-pub" shtick, I'm deterred by the obvious falseness of it.

Nigel Farage. Who are you, really..?

Fourth Lion, I think you've got your wires crossed slightly.

For a start, I'll just stress that the only newspaper I read is the Times; I'm not one of your Daily Mail merchants.

Secondly, I would agree on your inference that Nigel Farage is hypocritical, and it is one of the things I dislike about him. Like you say, he paints himself as a man of the people but, in reality, he's a middle-class, privately-educated chap. And yes, we don't know what the majority of UKIP's policies are..yet - it's difficult to be an out-and-out supporter of them until you know what they firmly stand for on the domestic front.

Where I would disagree with you, however, is saying Farage's political stance is negative. I rather think it's positive. He's confident in Britain's ability to govern herself, defend herself, have a good economy, and trade with our neighbours well, without the interference of the European Union.

That is sharply different from mister Clegg, who seems to reckon that this country may very well fall into a dark age without the guise of the European Union. Jobs will be lost, our trade will collapse etc.

Farage thinks Britain can do well independently, Clegg doesn't. It's easy to see who is being positive.

And immigration? The UKIP leader has stressed time and again that he is not anti-immigration, he is anti-uncontrolled-immigration which is ever so different. He aspires to have a points-based system, one like Canada or Australia, I presume, at a quantity which would regain a structure to our population, and a quality which is suitable to the needs of Britain's workforce. It would be a sharp difference, and a very sharp relief, from the uncontrolled mess that we've suffered as a country over the past few years.

I suppose over the next year, assuming that UKIP really do knit together a proper mainfesto, we'll find out what they are really about, and whether or not as a party that they can gain a foothold in the House of Commons in 2015.

Time will tell.

The Fourth Lion wrote:A lot of interesting discussion on this subject but as usual, no real consensus of opinion.  Oh well.... ever was it thus so.

I would feel a lot happier about UKIP if they had more depth to them and weren't so blatantly populist.  Farage has gone for the tactic of simply hitting the buttons that strike a chord with the Daily Mail / Sun reading section of Britain.  Unfortunately, that is quite a sizeable chunk of the newspaper buying public and this gives him a lot of publicity because newspapers respond to people who.... er.... buy newspapers.  That's not politics, it's market forces.  

From where I sit, anybody who buys the "Hale-fellow-well-met" shtick of being the ordinary bloke in the pub who likes a fag and a pint really is buying a pup.  

He was educated at Dulwich College, a private school, and his father was a City of London stockbroker.  Indeed, Nigel became a stockbroker himself, trading in commodities in the London Metal Exchange.  Apparently, he made a nice little earner out of that.  It doesn't make him a bad person, but the financial meltdown of 2008 was largely the creation of casino bankers and stockbrokers.  Not exactly men you can trust, are they..?  

So.... we have a middle class, private school educated stockbroker passing himself off as a working class bloke who likes a pint in his local pub and is often shown on TV and in newspapers with his favourite prop... a pint of beer.

I cannot recall, however, seeing him actually drink any of the beer.   Could that have something to do with a profile of him, broadcast on BBC Radio 4, that he is an alcoholic...?   Interesting thought, that.   To the best of my knowledge, he never denied the allegation.  Perhaps some of his supporters on here can clear that point up.

Nigel Farage strikes me as a "smoke and mirrors" politician.  What you see is not necessarily what you get, although he is very successful in promoting exactly the opposite image.

His political stance is entirely negative.  He is absolutely crystal clear on what he intends to destroy..... Britain's membership of the European Union.   But when questioned in any depth on what he intends to create in a post EU Britain,  he becomes vague and resorts to sweeping statements that have no basis in evidence, merely insisting that everything will all be alright.  He then steers the conversation back to the theme he knows he can rely on.....  Immigration.   Get rid of the foreigners and all will be well.  The recovery will take care of itself.  

The three major parties make mistakes... and a lot of them.   They have their faults and their failings, but what they do do, is produce structured manifestos with clear political aims..... And their talk is mostly about what they intend to do for us on the things that matter to the country:   Education... the economy.... The NHS..... Armed Forces.....  the Welfare State.   That's what really matters.   All we get from UKIP is Europe, Europe, Europe.  

I have no idea what UKIP's manifesto says on any of the above things because they never talk about them.   How will their policies affect the State Pension I will be drawing in the not-too-distant future..? Everything UKIP says indicates they are Welfare State averse, but hey.... I've paid my National Insurance Stamp all my life.  I've contributed to the system and I think I'm entitled to a decent pension.  I know where Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems stand on this issue, but UKIP..?  Nope.  I have no idea.  Frankly, Nigel Farage's generally hard line right wing attitudes do not inspire confidence.

I think we can safely add "One Trick Pony" to the "Smoke and Mirrors" tag.

Nigel Farage is charismatic and can be charming.  He uses gimmicks and rhetoric well and thumps the tub for his cause relentlessly and to the exclusion of all else.  But it's all very shallow.  I see no depth to the man or his political message.

Rather than not liking him, I simply cannot trust him.  Rather than being unconvinced by his arguments, I'm suspicious of what he doesn't seem to be capable of arguing.  Rather than being attracted to the "ordinary-bloke-in-the-pub" shtick, I'm deterred by the obvious falseness of it.

Nigel Farage.  Who are you, really..?

Excellent post and sums up my views exactly.

Duty281 wrote:



Secondly, I would agree on your inference that Nigel Farage is hypocritical, and it is one of the things I dislike about him. Like you say, he paints himself as a man of the people but, in reality, he's a middle-class, privately-educated chap. And yes, we don't know what the majority of UKIP's policies are..yet - it's difficult to be an out-and-out supporter of them until you know what they firmly stand for on the domestic front.

.

I agree with this

Not trusting Farage.

Trusting Fib Cleggy would be like trusting Sweeny Todd to give one a close shave.

BBC One are covering the results of the European Election from 11 tonight.

Duty281 wrote:BBC One are covering the results of the European Election from 11 tonight.

Dimbleby show (Vote 2014} starts at nine on BBC News.

Gees, looking like a bad night for the Pro EU parties in France  

The European Parliament will be full of eurosceptics soon!

Duty281 wrote:The European Parliament will be full of eurosceptics soon!

    

skyeman wrote:Gees, looking like a bad night for the Pro EU parties in France  

I don't think there is anything to cheer about when Marie La Pen's National front party comes top (equivalent to the BNP).

Well done the French.

A lot of right-wingers and extremist parties winning seats in the European Parliament; some, as in France and Denmark, winning overall.

skyeman wrote:Well done the French.

You are the best type of euro-sceptic, One who complains about the EU but then votes for a pro-EU party   

UKIP pinching the Liberal vote in the North East; Labour win as expected.

Suzanne Evans confirming she was misquoted, as I said, as well as distancing her party from France's National Front (good to hear),and the BBC squirming at UKIP's early gains.

Duty281 wrote:Suzanne Evans confirming she was misquoted, as I said, as well as distancing her party from France's National Front (good to hear),and the BBC squirming at UKIP's early gains.

Heard the full quote yesterday, some believed it.  

Very true, Skye. Can't believe to the extent it was misquoted!

UKIP win in the East of England!

Duty281 wrote:Suzanne Evans confirming she was misquoted, as I said, as well as distancing her party from France's National Front (good to hear),and the BBC squirming at UKIP's early gains.

You posted her exact quote earlier, she wasn't misquoted   
She said Londoners ignored UKIP due to londoners being more educated and more media savvy   

Duty281 wrote:Fourth Lion, I think you've got your wires crossed slightly.

For a start, I'll just stress that the only newspaper I read is the Times; I'm not one of your Daily Mail merchants.

Secondly, I would agree on your inference that Nigel Farage is hypocritical, and it is one of the things I dislike about him. Like you say, he paints himself as a man of the people but, in reality, he's a middle-class, privately-educated chap. And yes, we don't know what the majority of UKIP's policies are..yet - it's difficult to be an out-and-out supporter of them until you know what they firmly stand for on the domestic front.

Where I would disagree with you, however, is saying Farage's political stance is negative. I rather think it's positive. He's confident in Britain's ability to govern herself, defend herself, have a good economy, and trade with our neighbours well, without the interference of the European Union.

That is sharply different from mister Clegg, who seems to reckon that this country may very well fall into a dark age without the guise of the European Union. Jobs will be lost, our trade will collapse etc.

Farage thinks Britain can do well independently, Clegg doesn't. It's easy to see who is being positive.

And immigration? The UKIP leader has stressed time and again that he is not anti-immigration, he is anti-uncontrolled-immigration which is ever so different. He aspires to have a points-based system, one like Canada or Australia, I presume, at a quantity which would regain a structure to our population, and a quality which is suitable to the needs of Britain's workforce. It would be a sharp difference, and a very sharp relief, from the uncontrolled mess that we've suffered as a country over the past few years.

I suppose over the next year, assuming that UKIP really do knit together a proper mainfesto, we'll find out what they are really about, and whether or not as a party that they can gain a foothold in the House of Commons in 2015.

Time will tell.

I agree broadly with some of what you say, but I'm still wary of a very clever wordsmith who sounds superficially plausible, but never seems to back his rhetoric up with any sort of detailed plan.

Firstly, please be assured that when I talk of certain groups, I am not making any sort of veiled reference to yourself. I am making generalisations (as distinct from stereotypes). In all general groups there are exceptions and I notice you are often quick to point out that in all respects you fall outside of the general pattern. Good for you on that, but you do come across as being a little defensive and I would like to reassure you that you personally are not in my cross-wires either directly or indirectly.

To address your comments, I would disagree that Nigel Farage is confident about Britain's future. Rather, he seems to be blindly optimistic, but with no explainable reason for being so. There is a difference. Confidence is only warranted when it is backed up by solid evidence and qualified reason for being so. What we see from Mr Farage is empty posturing. He says a lot but it doesn't mean anything. Who is Britain going to trade with to such a level that it would not only equal, but exceed the amount of trade (more than half of Britain's current GDP) that we would lose from our European markets..?

Who are these countries..? The Far Eastern (so-called) "Tiger Economies"..? America..? South America..? He doesn't explain and none of these economies has said that they would be interested in a Britain that is outside of Europe. Indeed, the United States has said that they would be dismayed at a Britain that is not in the European Union, and it's not difficult to see why. The US has been using Britain as a bridge across the Atlantic and a gateway to European markets since the ink on the Treaty of Rome was still wet. Britain leaving the EU would mean them having to forge new relationships with Brussels. It would give them a headache which I am sure they would no doubt overcome, but with disruption. The Americans won't thank us for that and they sure as hell wouldn't see any reason to give us favourable consideration in future trade deals. You can say pretty much the same for any of our other current non-EU business partners.

So, Mr Farage..... Who are these new trade partners and what advantages would we have to offer them as an inducement to all this new business..?

UKIP is a bit like the Scottish Nationalists. Once they get what they want, their raison d'etre disappears. Would they go on..? Would people still vote for them..? Why should anybody vote for them..? UKIP are a party of protest and when the reason for the protest no longer exists, what use are they..? There is a very real prospect that UKIP could wither on the vine and leave the government of the day to get on with the business of sorting out the problems UKIP created. I can see the SNP still having a role to play should the Scots gain independence*, but UKIP..? Not so easy to envisage.

You suggest that Mr Farage thinks immigration can be advantageously managed. Well, that's a good vote winner for sure. A policy of cherry picking will go down well over breakfast in the Surrey stockbroker belt but how practical is it..? We want to take only the cream and slam the door in the faces of those we consider not good enough.

But why should the brains of Europe come to a country that has rejected them, as a people, as inferior..? Because that is how UKIP is being viewed on the continent. Britain is increasingly being seen as hostile to outsiders. And that view is spreading to the wider world. Leaving the EU doesn't just say "Don't come here, we don't want you", it screams it from the rooftops. And they hear it. There are high-tech scientific, medical, engineering and other types of projects in other countries, you know..... countries that welcome incomers, and could probably pay better too, than a shrinking economy that has just ditched more than half its markets with no clear idea of what they will replace them with.

If I were a very good Chinese or Malaysian or Brazilian graduate looking for somewhere to work, Britain would be one of the bottom countries of my list of places to look for work. Maybe just above Nigeria, but only if I were gay. We may attract some graduates or scientific specialists, but not the best ones. Notwithstanding financial considerations, the best would go where they felt they were going to be well treated and welcomed, not grudgingly tolerated, almost on sufferance.

You gave Canada and Australia as examples of a sound immigration policy. They are relatively young countries, that are highly attractive to the well skilled. It doesn't take much to see what those attractions may be. Britain is an old country that does not have the attractions of those places and again, if I were a bright young thing who totted up plenty of Brownie points I wouldn't use them to come here when I could go to either of those countries.

We have always been very inward looking on this small island off the western coast of Europe. We talk amongst ourselves and imagine nobody outside is listening, and that the rest of the world looks upon us with awe. They don't. Not any more. The Empire is gone and the Commonwealth only exists because the Queen holds it together. In trade and business, the nations of the Commonwealth feel no obligation to afford us special consideration any more. If Mr Farage thinks that post-EU they will be fertile markets, there for the taking he may be sorely disappointed.

You say that Nick Clegg is a doom monger who is a defeatist. You could be right. But what if he isn't..? What if he has got his finger on the pulse..? We may come to regret the day that we find out. As you quite rightly say. Time will tell.

There is only one certainty in all this. If we leave the EU, it will be for good. They won't have us back. If / when we leave, we will be pulling up the drawbridge to the continent for the final time and we had all better just hope and pray that UKIP really does have some sort of rabbit to pull out of the hat.

Because we're going to need one.





* An independent Scotland would want to join the EU and would distance itself from any decision to leave, taken in Westminster. Indeed, many Scots could be swayed in the Referendum because of England's attitude towards Europe. Nigel Farage may be being instrumental in the break up of the United Kingdom.

skyeman wrote:Well done the French.

I hope this is a joke because it would be very worrying if you are seriously congratulating France for electing the National Front who Labour/conservatives and UKIP have described as openly racist and UKIP have refused to work with them in the european parliament because UKIP view them as extremely racist. They are a party who are openly anti-semetic and openly homophobic and one only needs to look back 60 years to Germany to see the comparisons with the openly anti-semetic/homophobic NAZI party and the National Front of France.

Going even better than Farage expected  

So.... How many of you voted for the party that won your region?

Well, UKIP have got their desired landslide.  Now let's see what they do with it and where it leaves us when they've done it.

Nigel Farage is already claiming that his party will definitely win Parliamentary seats next year.  Bold words.  He is clearly feeling ecstatic with his victory in the MEP elections and we can't blame him for crowing.  He was, however, typically coy when asked how many Westminster seats he thought his party would win in the General Election.  Perhaps he's wary of making a David Steele-type "Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government" gaffe.

I find Nick's question above a little odd.  The results in this election are declared by region on a proportional representation basis.   In the South East region, UKIP gained 4 MEP's, Conservative 3, Labour, Green and LibDem 1 each.  I have no idea how the voting in my local area went but on the basis of the above results, I can honestly say that the party I voted for has achieved representation in Brussels.  

I must say that I find the turnout of only 35.4% disappointing.  One might expect that with UKIP on such an electoral high, and greatly in the news at this time, that more people would have gone to the polls.   Does this indicate a degree of apathy with politics in Britain at this time..?  What would the result have been had more people taken the trouble to vote..?

Be that as it may, it's now a done deal and events will take their course over the coming weeks and months.   I for one am not exactly filled with optimism for Britain's future prosperity and standing in the world.  Sending yourself to Coventry is not a good idea.

We're sending out a message that Britain doesn't want to play any more.  We shouldn't be surprised if they eventually stop inviting us to their tables.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Yes CS because those experienced ones from labour are doing a cracking job of it   

And A levels is further education not finishing your education, idiot!!

You have on a few occasions started throwing around insults, if you can't behave and not throw around insults I suggest you stop commenting because all you will do is get the thread locked and the section removed.

This so far is may favourite quote of this debate, translates to 'oh no, I've got no way to twist this as it's correct, hmmm i'll say he insulted me'
proving once again that your really not that bright.

For the record i've called you an idiot for your complete inability to listen to what anyone else says and try and twist everything. Even the mods called you out on it TWICE.
I've also called you a liar, for wasting everyones time with your apparent 'you tube' channel. but I'm done now, think i'll follow Duty and Skye's example and have you on ignore.

Derbymanc wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Yes CS because those experienced ones from labour are doing a cracking job of it   

And A levels is further education not finishing your education, idiot!!

You have on a few occasions started throwing around insults, if you can't behave and not throw around insults I suggest you stop commenting because all you will do is get the thread locked and the section removed.

This so far is may favourite quote of this debate, translates to 'oh no, I've got no way to twist this as it's correct, hmmm i'll say he insulted me'
proving once again that your really not that bright

Now, now, children. Play nicely or the big bad moderator wolf will lock the thread.

Derbys.... why not tell us instead what you think of the result of the election. I'd be interested to read what you have to say on the issues.

Morning Fourth,

Added as a foe now to stop it getting out of hand as the Mods have been spot on letting us have this conversation   

My thoughts are that it's a kick up the bum for the 2 main parties (Lib Dems are more of an annoyance IMO,) and I think it could be a turning point for politics in this country. Whether you like UKIP or not they've struck a chord with people across the vast range. The racist tag was bandied around by people and parties that were too worried that their own policies weren't good enough and tried to scare people away, I think this in itself pushed people towards the party by making people look them up, see what they're about and think that they're the party for them.

On a wider scheme it now looks like the EU will have 1/3rd of the parliament as Euro Sceptics, hopefully they'll use it to look after their own countries but I have a horrible feeling that it will be used by some as an excuse to pull a wage without doing anything.

The next few months is going to be interesting though to see how everyone copes.