Nail your colours to the mast: Froch vs Groves 2 predicitons.

First topic message reminder :

Just over a week now to the big British rematch, how does everyone see this one going ? Your truthful offical prediction, you'll have no place to hide when you log on after the fight.

Whoever gets the correct outcome wins a grand, prizemoney to be donated by the Mods.

I see a tepid affair, much more strategic and cautious by both fighters, with Groves winning a comfortable decision something like 117-110. With a decider to happen in November.

Cheers Rodders

Did a bit of youtube-ing last night. Watched the Froch Groves 'Gloves off'. Does Groves think he's Paul McKenna or something? Looked a right tw@t trying to do the eyeballing thing. Hope Froch beats the living sheeeet out of him.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:If the left hand is raised, Groves won't be able to land the right cross to range find - I'm not saying its an infallible plan - but the low hands was far too easy for someone with Groves handspeed to exploit.

Did you see the public workout yesterday? Everytime he threw a punch his hand went to his hip for a split second and it was like he realised and brought it back up, problem is Groves only needs that split second.

Herman Jaggery wrote:Carl doesn't get caught he wins.

Would also be the best defensive display of all time surely?

Scottrf wrote:

Herman Jaggery wrote:Carl doesn't get caught he wins.

Would also be the best defensive display of all time surely?

?

what

Whilst perhaps not as effective as last time, the mind games have still affected Froch. He's taking great pains to tell us all how much he ISN'T affected in the slightest which is a clear indicator that it's got his attention. ("Look at me ignoring him, everyone"

In much the same way, I have a suspicion that come fight night Froch may just focus a bit too much on a particular aspect of his arsenal to the detriment of something else (perhaps so focused on keeping the left up and chin down, he neglects his own offence to a degree...that sort of thing).

After Alex Arthur was beaten by Michael Gomez, Arthur spent his next few fights being overly cautious/defensive minded and stifled his natural boxing style, he was never the same fighter. I wonder if the amount of shots Groves was able to land at will on Froch (and all this from a fighter "not in Froch's league") will have a similar effect of Froch's mindset.

The problem I see for Froch is that if he sticks to the same fight plan as last time, he'll get more of the same and if he adopts a different strategy he's also likely to suffer. He generally fights one way (a bit like Hatton did for much of his career) and Groves has demonstrated that he has more in his bag of tricks.

Froch's stamina will see him through to the final bell but I fear he may be like Frazier vs Ali and be so consumed with disdain for his opponent and willing to dish it out that he takes too much for his own good.

Then again, he may jump on Groves from the off, catch him high on the temple and force the ref to call it off in the second round. You never know!

Just had a confirmation text off the brother stating he has just ordered it...happy with that.

Cant wait now, if its anything like the 1st, it should be great. Be interesting to see what Carl does different in terms of defence because he did get popped a million times last time.

I don't care. I just hope its as exciting, and hope carl wins again.

Can't decide between GG points (116-112 type thing) or Froch stoppage. Can't see Carl winning out points or being stopped.

Old dog and new tricks for me. Froch either grinds Groves down to a late ko or Groves wins, I can't see how Froch can possibly change what he does. GG is far the superior boxer and if Froch tries to rush him he'll walk onto another right hand. If Groves does less of the macho stuff this time (not too much less, but less all the same) he should last the 12 and win the fight.

Hard to see how Groves does less of the macho stuff, its a hard balance to get, and I'm not sure he finds it under the lights, in front of 80, 000 people cheering him on. He tries to leave some for later on, I think he falls behind early to the one guy he probably doesnt want to force the issue with when he gets fatigued, and gets stop trying to force the issue. He fights the same way,I think we get a Hurricane effect, question is, can Froch make it out of it? If so, I think Froch wins later on. Dont think we are seeing the judges scorecards in this one.Could be mighty close if we do.

I'm going for a draw. Groves to get a lead early on and Froch to finish strong.

I think GG will have learned from the first fight and will leave more in reserve and I think age is catching up with Froch so doesn't have 12 strong rounds in him and the tactic will be to try and let GG punch himself out. I think both men can walk away happy with a draw.

GG will say I was winning first fight and wrongly stopped and now a draw. Froch can say I won the first and drew the second.

Nearer the fight gets the more I think Froch will win convincingly..

Nearer the fight gets, the more I struggle to see how Groves gets the 'balance' right, without losing the early momentum that allowed him to take Froch to the trenches limit. We arent talking about a chemical reaction where Groves simply has to add less agression to the reactant. Lacking the proof that Groves is in fact capable of sorta coasting against Froch early on for no loss, i'll go with the safe option and assume that tactic more likely than not backfires. If he plays a reserve game vs Froch, I think he's still gonna come a very sorry second, very early.

I see no reason why Groves can't box more on the back foot if he so decides. Get on the front foot early, let Froch remember that right hand and as the fight goes on he buy 20 seconds here and there, it all adds up. Groves can make Froch look incredibly pedestrian if he wants to so show him up early, get into his head. Footwork is key as inviting Froch on then resting on the ropes simply isn't an option. Back foot, lateral movement, lure Froch onto counter rights in the middle rounds then get out of harms way.

I genuinely think Groves can make Froch look appalling.

As long as Groves doesn't make the same mistake as the last fight and trade with Froch he'll win comfortably. He's too quick for him and I can't see Froch having the ability to completely change his approach second time round. I feel he'll be open to the right hand constantly once more. Groves boxes with his head, he wins comfortably for me by 3/4 rounds.

KingMonkey wrote:I see no reason why Groves can't box more on the back foot if he so decides.  Get on the front foot early, let Froch remember that right hand and as the fight goes on he buy 20 seconds here and there, it all adds up.  Groves can make Froch look incredibly pedestrian if he wants to so show him up early, get into his head.  Footwork is key as inviting Froch on then resting on the ropes simply isn't an option.  Back foot, lateral movement, lure Froch onto counter rights in the middle rounds then get out of harms way.

I genuinely think Groves can make Froch look appalling.

Think that ship has already sailed. Then again, there's every possibility that Froch makes Groves look like a one-hit wonder flash in the pan and cleans his clock for him. Still think the pressure is on Froch though...he's the one claiming that he only looked poor because he was unprepared, had slacked off in training etc etc etc and now he's had the best camp ever and is ready for war and on and on it goes. Like Ali did to Spinks in their rematch and Hopkins has done to countless opponents, does Froch have what it takes to "old man" Groves out of the match. Personally I think not, Ward showed that Froch doesn't know enough of the "dark arts" to fiddle and faff around when it gets messy. In the first match, Groves was able to bully and outmuscle Froch at times which I though was surprising but it certainly wouldn't be a shock to see Groves doing it again at the weekend.

Instead of calling it "Unfinished Business" (which I'm sure is the tagline I mooted a while back) they should call it "No excuses"

KingMonkey wrote:I see no reason why Groves can't box more on the back foot if he so decides.  Get on the front foot early, let Froch remember that right hand and as the fight goes on he buy 20 seconds here and there, it all adds up.  Groves can make Froch look incredibly pedestrian if he wants to so show him up early, get into his head.  Footwork is key as inviting Froch on then resting on the ropes simply isn't an option.  Back foot, lateral movement, lure Froch onto counter rights in the middle rounds then get out of harms way.

I genuinely think Groves can make Froch look appalling.

He made Froch look appalling for 6 rounds last time......

Well this is it isn't it. And it's already been said, Froch is the harder and more durable man it would seem. Groves is far from chinny but he was being worn down so he needs to find a remedy and I can't believe both he and Paddy won't be thinking about it. Buying 10 seconds here, another 10 there in the middle rounds will do him the world of good but its important Groves stamps his authority early too. Groves can win rounds on both the front and back foot, Froch cannot.

I keep getting swayed that Froch is going to do the business and knock George Groves out late, however I picked Groves when this fight was announced and I am not buying into the hype.

It's just really hard because all the signs seem to point at Froch winning now...

Could be that the early success made groves a bit trigger happy last time, and spend more energy than planned. Could also be that it made little difference. I don't see see why he can't fight to a plan, where he's assertive without being gung-ho, and conserve some energy. As has been said, its a delicate balance... Do enough to win the rounds and keep froch honest... Whilst keeping something in the tank. Won't be easy but it's his best chance I feel.

I can see gg winning on points but hope to heaven in high froch knocks him clean out early

milkyboy wrote:Could be that the early success made groves a bit trigger happy last time, and spend more energy than planned. Could also be that it made little difference. I don't see see why he can't fight to a plan, where he's assertive without being gung-ho, and conserve some energy. As has been said, its a delicate balance... Do enough to win the rounds and keep froch honest... Whilst keeping something in the tank. Won't be easy but it's his best chance I feel.

The worse thing that can happen from Groves point of view is hurting Froch early, he will up the pace and go for the kill and if he doesn't then end having expended so much energy he could be in some trouble late on.

I can't see how he keeps enough in the tank for the late rounds and not get outworked in the process, either way I can't see him winning the last 3/4 rounds.

DAVE667 wrote:
Think that ship has already sailed. Then again, there's every possibility that Froch makes Groves look like a one-hit wonder flash in the pan and cleans his clock for him.

Imagine someone trying to learn English reading that  WTF!

I don't buy this macho image froch gives off, like he can walk through anyone and could knock out a shire horse. His power isnt what he thinks it is, his years of taking too much abuse have caught up with him imo.

I think if groves has matured more (and also lets not forget a full camp with same trainer etc) can get on his back foot a bit more, tie up froch a bit when he comes forward then he takes it easily. I think in wildly swinging back in the first fight he let himself down a bit.

Froch for all his talk about power didnt actually drop groves, I struggle to think of any department, expirience aside, where froch beats groves? Maybe argue that Frochs chinm but we all know the best chin is the one that doesnt get hit and i think groves defence is much tighter.

I noticed Groves was shadow boxing with a really wide stance in the open workout yesterday, which suggests plenty of lateral movement, will he give up the centre of the ring this time and use raiding tactics ?

More than likely I'm talking bollox though.

Cheers Rodders

Watched the fight again yesterday and there were two occasions when Groves legs seemed to betray him. The first was when Froch hooked him round the back of the neck and dragged his head about a foot across the ring (off balance as much as anything) and the second was when Groves got clipped on the top of the head and his legs genuinely went for a few seconds. Outside of that, Groves took Froch's punches pretty well but only looked to be in trouble he covered up against Froch's attacks due to Froch's habit of cuffing and dragging his opponents with the inside of his forearm.

More lateral movement from Groves is the key, both offensively and defensively.

i hope so, if thats the case Froch will look more ordinary than he did against ward (from a purely stylistic point of view)

DAVE667 wrote:

More lateral movement from Groves is the key, both offensively and defensively.

Agree certainly on the defensive part. When I rewatched it, the only times groves got himself into trouble were when he went macho toe to toe and when he backed up in a straight line into the ropes. It happened a fair few times and he earmuffed like pacquiao, but took some unnecessary shots I thought. Ideally he'd either counter or move laterally rather than back straight up.

milkyboy wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

More lateral movement from Groves is the key, both offensively and defensively.

Agree certainly on the defensive part. When I rewatched it, the only times groves got himself into trouble were when he went macho toe to toe and when he backed up in a straight line into the ropes. It happened a fair few times and he earmuffed like pacquiao, but took some unnecessary shots I thought. Ideally he'd either counter or move laterally rather than back straight up.

There were odd occasions in the first fight that Groves did neglect his head movement and allow Froch to get a couple of jabs off so I'd suggest that if Groves can again utilize the feints that he did so well with in the first fight AND keep the lateral movement going it will discourage Froch from throwing too much as Grove has the hand speed to counter him with ease

I think Froch stops Groves again.

I watched the fight back last night. George began to unravel from round seven on. I expect him to box from range, however, Froch will walk him down steadily.

Groves had started to wilt in round nine. Had Foster let it go, I don't believe he'd have made it into the 10th.

hazharrison wrote:I think Froch stops Groves again.

I watched the fight back last night. George began to unravel from round seven on. I expect him to box from range, however, Froch will walk him down steadily.

Groves had started to wilt in round nine. Had Foster let it go, I don't believe he'd have made it into the 10th.

Hard to say Haz, Froch looked absolutely shattered to me. If Groves somehow seen that volleyed attack off, I'm not sure how much more Froch had left. Only certainty is that Froch, Groves and Hearn should be kissing the souls of Fosters feet now.

Cheers Rodders

I don't see Groves being able to outbox Froch for 12 rounds,Froch has alway's been a fighter who pressurises and makes you fight for the full fight, and at some stage Froch will drag Groves into the type of war he's used to,and thats's when I feel Froch will stop him.

Froch has arguably taken Groves best shot, but I don't believe Groves has taken anything like a full on Froch onslaught,he will this time.

HE didnt take it as Froch was constantly beat to the punch...

Nico the gman wrote:I don't see Groves being able to outbox Froch for 12 rounds,Froch has alway's been a fighter who pressurises and makes you fight for the full fight, and at some stage Froch will drag Groves into the type of war he's used to,and thats's when I feel Froch will stop him.

Froch has arguably taken Groves best shot, but I don't believe Groves has taken anything like a full on Froch onslaught,he will this time.

Again this holds some weight, rewatching it alot of Frochs shots were cuffing behind the ear sort of shots, yet he stil buzzed Groves. What makes the fight interesting is you can put a decent argument for both guys, I just feel speed and technique should prevail.

Cheers Rodders

Groves has never taken a "full on Froch onslaught" because he's been good enough to nullify Froch's work. If he was good enough to do it in November, he'll be good enough to do to it again at the weekend. As for Groves unraveling, he was still landing big shots in round seven, eight and nine so I'm not sure what Haz was watching.

Groves should land a few big shots early doors and Froch can ask himself if he's willing/able to withstand another shellacking in the hope he can force a late stoppage.

However I think Groves, on the whole, should keep a cool head and stick to the boxing. Like Calzaghe when he fought Lacy, I though Joe could have finished it any time he wanted but was understandably wary of Lacy's power and played it smart. Groves should do the same, even if he's boxing Froch's head off, he needs to stick to the game plan and not rush anything just to try and secure an eye-catching KO or stoppage.

im going with a groves victory on points possibly a split decision but most will have Groves 2-3 rounds ahead. similar to first fight with groves doing the better boxing, froch closing strongly with pressure and work rate. but without a rubbish ref jumping in groves leaves just enough in the tank to grind out some tough closing moments

Rodney wrote:

Nico the gman wrote:I don't see Groves being able to outbox Froch for 12 rounds,Froch has alway's been a fighter who pressurises and makes you fight for the full fight, and at some stage Froch will drag Groves into the type of war he's used to,and thats's when I feel Froch will stop him.

Froch has arguably taken Groves best shot, but I don't believe Groves has taken anything like a full on Froch onslaught,he will this time.

Again this holds some weight, rewatching it alot of Frochs  shots were cuffing behind the ear sort of shots, yet he stil buzzed Groves. What makes the fight interesting is you can put a decent argument for both guys, I just feel speed and technique should prevail.

Cheers Rodders

Sometimes it's the behind the ear shots that scramble the senses though rodders. Barker took martinez' shots to the jaw, and was rolling around on the floor to the side of the head shot. Maybe some fighters are just Necky like David price. I agree with the sentiment though, I don't think groves has taken froch's best shot.

Froch probably did take groves best shot, though its arguable how well he took it. If it landed earlier in the round, we might well have had a very different result. No doubt he took them pretty well for the rest of the fight.

I can't understand why Froch is taking the rematch, because according to some on here he's going to get outboxed, outpunched, outthought,doesn't seem he has much of a chance of pulling this off,looks like a total mismatch.

correct!

hence why he got his arse handed to him before the ridiculous stoppage.

Although a career high purse no doubt, technically a side in biggest fight in recent memory on these isles, the face he didnt really have a choice, are all reasons why he is taking it.

I admit I am biased as I cannot stand the way Froch handles himself...but even being neutral i see this fight in groves favour.

He was outboxed, was outpunched and was outthought for the vast majority of the last fight Nico...

The fact is that everyone and his dog knows what Carl's strengths are...toughness, durability and a huge will to win. Now those are fantastic attributes to have...in fact probably the best because they will always keep you in with a shout within a fight.

However he has huge technical flaws; which weren't just apparent in his last fight, but have been apparent throughout his whole career....someone with Groves speed, boxing ability and countering ability are most often going to be a favourite heading into the fight.

In the first one people had questions marks over his chin, stamina and ability to perform at this level. Those were the things which were in Froch's favour..Groves has answered two of those (level & chin) in mine and most people's opinion.

Think most people admit the fight could go either way especially if it gets into the latter stages...however when presented with the first fight, Froch's flaws, his age and the fact he has had 5 years of tough tough fights it's hardly surprising to see many believe that he may just be biting off a little more than he can chew by taking the rematch.

In terms of why he may have taken it; well plenty of answers;

1) Career high payday
2) Mandatory position George was in
3) The fact Carl didn't have any other options out there (despite what he tells us)
4) Personal pride (his ego most definitely wouldn't have liked the aftermath of the 1st
5) Public Perception

Anymore you'd like?!

.aveyard2.0 wrote:correct!

hence why he got his arse handed to him before the ridiculous stoppage.

Although a career high purse no doubt, technically a side in biggest fight in recent memory on these isles, the face he didnt really have a choice, are all reasons why he is taking it.

I admit I am biased as I cannot stand the way Froch handles himself...but even being neutral i see this fight in groves favour.

That's a contradiction of terms, if you're biased then there's no seeing things from a neutral point of view because it will still be biased.

I just watched the media workout and Groves was throwing a lot of uppercuts, is that the new game plan?

BoxingFan88 wrote:I just watched the media workout and Groves was throwing a lot of uppercuts, is that the new game plan?

wouldnt read too much into any public workout the fighters do, groves knows full well that he was being watched

Nico the gman wrote:I can't understand why Froch is taking the rematch, because according to some on here he's going to get outboxed, outpunched, outthought,doesn't seem he has much of a chance of pulling this off,looks like a total mismatch.

Five million smackers win lose or draw is probably a good starting point.

Also the fact he's a reasonable favourite to win as well, end of the day he won the first fight because Groves couldn't put him away.

.aveyard2.0 wrote:correct!

hence why he got his arse handed to him before the ridiculous stoppage.

Although a career high purse no doubt, technically a side in biggest fight in recent memory on these isles, the face he didnt really have a choice, are all reasons why he is taking it.

I admit I am biased as I cannot stand the way Froch handles himself...but even being neutral i see this fight in groves favour.

Froch lost the 1st 6 rounds easily by his own admission,the fight was over 12rounds not 6, bad stoppage yes, but Froch was on top at the end of the 9th round.
Groves hit him with everything and Froch kept coming and that's worrying for Groves.

Good job the governing bodies ordered the rematch otherwise serial ducker Froch would have got away from Groves.
If its such a mismatch in Groves favour then get down the bookies and put your money where your mouth is, it will be like shelling peas for you.

As the fight gets closer, im still torn between the 2.

Having rewatched it the other night, as stated earlier, I feel the stoppage wasn't as bad, and that Groves was indeed hurt.

Yes he was outboxing carl and I had him 3 rounds ahead going into the 9th so Carl had to win every last round convincingly to scrape a win.

What Im finding though, is that while we all sit here and state that Groves boxed his head off in the last fight, dominated him, made him look poor..........Groves still lost, and he was only 1 POINT up going into the 9th according to the officials?!

With that in mind, had Groves gone down in the 9th, then he would have been LOSING the fight with 3 rounds to go.

So was he actually boxing his head off?

Just a curious question.

mobilemaster8 wrote:As the fight gets closer, im still torn between the 2.

Having rewatched it the other night, as stated earlier, I feel the stoppage wasn't as bad, and that Groves was indeed hurt.

Yes he was outboxing carl and I had him 3 rounds ahead going into the 9th so Carl had to win every last round convincingly to scrape a win.

What Im finding though, is that while we all sit here and state that Groves boxed his head off in the last fight, dominated him, made him look poor..........Groves still lost, and he was only 1 POINT up going into the 9th according to the officials?!

With that in mind, had Groves gone down in the 9th, then he would have been LOSING the fight with 3 rounds to go.

So was he actually boxing his head off?

Just a curious question.

Yes. For 6 rounds he's boxed his head off. Knocked him down, landed untold clean shots notably the right hand, out muscled him, out thought him, battered him from pillar to post in the 6th. I honestly don't know how 2 of those judges could only have Groves 1 point up, for my money it was 6-2 in rounds to Groves at the time of the stoppage being generous, wouldn't argue with 7-1. Appalling judging but nothing we're not used to with house fighters in this country. Foster knew where his bread was buttered too, the more I watch that stoppage the worse it gets, I don't blame GG for his scepticism over the officials this time out.

I don't feel he was dominating all the early rounds as much as some make out. But he was clearly winning most of them. There wasn't much in round 2, the 5th was probably froch's.

Every single press row card had groves ahead. The average was by 5 points. Most people gave froch the 5th and the 8th. And if you're implying the judges had it right, even froch doesn't agree with you!

I blame him because everything he has said and done in the build has shown weakness, for somebody apparently so sure he's going to win he hasn't half cried like a bitch about everything.

I can't give Froch more than 3 rounds up til the 9th no matter how many times I watch it and no matter what I want to see. Got it 6-2 myself