Ulster 2014/2015, Part 2

Part 1; https://www.606v2.com/t53882p950-ulster-2014-2015

We've been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.

If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.

Our pre-season concludes when we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. It'll be a big relief to see the action at Ravenhill moving from the headlines to the pitch

Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)

Hookers
Rory Best, Rob Herring (Jonny Murphy, John Andrew*)
Props
Callum Black, Ruaidhrí Murphy, Andrew Warwick, Declan Fitzpatrick, Wiehahn Herbst, Dave Ryan, Ricky Lutton, Bronson Ross, Kyle McCall(?)
Locks
Iain Henderson, Dan Tuohy, Franco van der Merwe, Lewis Stevenson, Neil McComb
Backrow
Robbie Diack, Conor Joyce, Chris Henry, Mike McComish, Sean Reidy, Charlie Butterworth, Nick Williams, Roger Wilson (Clive Ross**)
Scrum-half
Ruan Pienaar, Paul Marshall, Michael Heaney
Outhalf
Paddy Jackson, Ian Humphreys
Centres
Luke Marshall, Stuart Olding, Darren Cave, Stuart McCloskey
Wings
Michael Allen, Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Craig Gilroy
Fullback
Louis Ludik, Ricky Andrew, Jared Payne, Peter Nelson

*Academy hookers training with first team squad
**Clive Ross, cousin of Mike, is on trial

Opening fixtures

F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)

Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)

ECC; Leicester Tigers (A)
ECC; RC Toulon (H)

First post.   

Sorry, that was immature.

What I actually wanted to say is that based on the word of my Sharks-fanboy mates, Herbst will become quite an important player. He is strong as a bull apparently and has terrific technique.

Second post   

Under 2 months to go until the new season this thread is on part 2? Good grief yous can talk....  

George Carlin wrote:First post.   

Sorry, that was immature.

What I actually wanted to say is that based on the word of my Sharks-fanboy mates, Herbst will become quite an important player. He is strong as a bull apparently and has terrific technique.

I expect him to be a hit, a surprise hit for some people who haven't followed his career. Looks like a good bit of business, getting a prop without Afoas injury problems and quest for air miles who will be on less money and available for more games.

Jannie du Plessis holds Herbst in the highest regard and according to JdP he can cover 1 or 3 with equal effectiveness which could also come in handy. He is highly rated and a better assett than Afoa as Notch says with the extra gametime we'll see from him.

Thanks, Notch.

Seriously concerned about the lack of depth in the back row. We are relying on Diack and Henry performing to the same high standards as last season. If one - or both - are involved in international weekends, then who are our flankers?

The squad has been thinned, but we still have quite a bit of deadwood - McComish, McComb, McIlwaine and Ross.

Completely agree with your concerns about the Ludik signing taking up a NIQ place. To me, he seems like a career journeyman anyway (after all, he was playing for Agen - and was 'only' ever a squad player for the Sharks) - and he is potentially standing in the way of Nelson's development (interested to see how he performs post-Anscombe).

In summary, I'm not optimistic about the coming season. This seems like the weakest squad that we've had in some time. There are issues with regard to the coaching set-up (I'm not convinced of Kiss anyway, less so given that he's double-jobbing), the lack of depth in key positions and the loss of on-field leadership.

Given the apparent financial health that Ulster Rugby are in (coupled with the increased stadium capacity, the revenue from naming rights and Sky TV money), I was disappointed that the saving in salaries from the departure of Muller, Afoa and Court does not appear to have been reinvested in new signings of the same quality. In short, we have substituted proven performers with relative unknowns and/or players of a low quality (and cost).

The loss of Humphreys also raises questions about the decision making ability of senior management - with regard to technical, rugby-related matters, rather than financial.

Positives? I expect further development from Jackson, Henderson and Herring. Hopefully, an injury free year for Olding and the potential of McCloskey, Joyce and Nelson. But I just feel that we will struggle to replicate the relative on-field success of recent years. I hope I'm wrong.

UiK you have to figure that those players developing you mention are going to be able to command very big contracts as they get older. Certainly Jackson, Olding and Henderson are going to see a lot of big offers we'll need to see off throughout their careers. We're going to need to reinvest more than we spent on the guys who are leaving just to keep them in the coming years never mind more big name NIQs.

So we’re back in crisis. Thank God for that. At least we’ve returned to familiar territory.

For the most part, I’m a cheerily pessimistic kind of guy. But I’m also massively ornery, so given the bells tolling for Ulster, I’m kind of excited for the coming season.

I’m not convinced our squad is going to be much weaker than last season, UiK. Muller’s playing and training issues last season are well-documented. Afoa was never here, and when he did play, was a shadow of his former self. Paddy McAllister played one game I think (Stuart Olding played a couple, as did Paddy Wallace). Reidy and Butterworth aren’t jaw-dropping signings, but they are replacing Sean Doyle and two appearances by a rusty, somewhat ginger Ferris. Humphreys is a vast, crucial improvement on McKinney. Ludik is better than Andrew (although he improved markedly during last season). Hooker may be an issue.

The end of last season was an ugly mess. But getting rid of Anscombe was the brave option. He was all signed up for another year – the easiest thing would have been to concentrate on making sure we qualify for ERCC rugby in its second season, and not rock the boat. Was getting rid of Anscombe the right decision? I don’t know, but it was definitely the ballsy one.

So why might we look forward to this season? What might improve? Any suggestions? Indulge me.

1) Anscombe was apparently the driving force behind the Marshall-as-crash-ball playbook. Hopefully under Kiss we see a fuller array of Marshall’s skills. And/or Olding.
2) Payne is apparently taking the idea of being our 13 very seriously, and has spent part of the summer working on it. While he’s currently best at 15, if he can get to his previous performance levels at OC, happy days.
3) Henderson, after a bit of a lull, really started to step up in the latter stages of last season – and in significant games. Best player on the pitch in the Leinster semi-final. Hopefully he can become the beast he’s threatened to be this coming season.

Add in the fact that we have almost 10,000 season ticket holders, a sparkly new stadium and maybe it we don’t have to start this season waiting patiently for it to finish?

Notch -

I acknowledge that our younger players will demand higher salaries when their current contracts expire. However, some of those will be centrally funded (Jackson, Henderson, Marshall, etc.) and regardless, in the meantime (while those younger players are still playing on their current contracts), the saving generated from the departure of Muller, Afoa, Court, etc. could/should have been reinvested in better quality, albeit short-term, signings.

Are you suggesting that Logan is stockpiling cash now with the objective of building a war-chest to re-sign Jackson, Olding & co.? Is it envisaged that the projected increase in future revenues from increased stadium capacity, sponsorship/naming rights and the Sky TV deal will be insufficient to enable those home-grown players to be re-signed? In sports - unlike many other industries - there is a strong rationale for prioritising investment in assets which will deliver an immediate return.

Strike while the iron's hot.

Ulster won their 6 group matches against high calibre opposition last season. They were narrowly beaten by the eventual finalists. One could argue that last season's squad was very close to the top of the tree. One or two top class signings could have made Ulster into serious contenders. Instead, we seem to be content to settle for the role of 'also-rans'. When our major signings consist of a once-capped Springbok and a journeyman like Louis Ludik, then I can't be confident that we will witness an improvement in playing personnel this upcoming season.

It's starting to seem inevitable that stalwarts like Rory Best, Chris Henry and Andrew Trimble will play out their Ulster careers without any meaningful success at provincial level.

UiK - maybe stockpiling money for a significantly better coach post 2015 RWC?

Don Alfonso wrote:
1) Anscombe was apparently the driving force behind the Marshall-as-crash-ball playbook. Hopefully under Kiss we see a fuller array of Marshall’s skills. And/or Olding.

Very interesting if true. I have to admit, I was happy to see Marshall playing a more subtle, creative game for Ireland. He looks much better in that role, and of course his strength in contact is a massive bonus. He needs to be a second playmaker primarily though, and if he doesn't fit the bill then Stuart is going to take the shirt off him.

When he burst on the scene I'm fairly sure he was known for his playmaking skill set, rather than his physicality. Perhaps someone who remembers him a few seasons back can clarify on that.

Well, Marshall hasn't been employed as a crash ball for Ireland. While Les Kiss isn't in charge of attack in the Ireland set-up, I expect him to dovetail more closely with Schmidt at Ulster. When Marshall came through I viewed him as the ideal successor to Paddy Wallace- he just needed to learn game awareness. Stuart Olding is even more in the mould of Paddy because he has such instinctive foot work and stepping ability and that creativity and game awareness Marshall now seems to lack, but it's hard to tell if Marshall lacks that or if he is just being told to run through brick walls.

UiK I accept that but you've also got to take into account the cost of getting a top coach as Don says- but the budget isn't the reason for signing no top class back row, we have the money but we can't have any more NIQ spots. I think the mistake was to sign Ludik instead of signing a back row forward of similar calibre. That was a strategic error.

That said, I actually think you are underrating Ludik and Herbst. I expect Herbst to have more influence on the squad than Afoa- is Afoa a better player? Yes, but I think Herbst will add as much in the scrum and will be available for more games. Plus Afoa was never going to hit top form for us again, he looked disinterested. A fully-fit, fully motivated and Belfast based Afoa would be better than Herbst but I expect Herbst to be a big improvement on the shadow of Afoa we saw last season so I think we're stronger at tight head than we were. Louis Ludik is a guy who could have got a few caps for the Boks, the kind of guy who never misses a tackle, extremely solid under the high ball,strong runner- he's just well rounded in every aspect of his game. I thought we needed the cover more elsewhere but now that he's here I think he'll do really well.

Tbh, the concerns are hooker and open side. Those are the biggies in terms of depth. But I now feel we have depth at tight head and out half that we didn't before and that is key. Think our squad is stronger than last year. A lot of doom and gloom but lets look at what some of the big names leaving did last season-

Paddy Wallace- injured and barely played at all. Had to retire due to injury.
Stephen Ferris- I have mentally considered him retired since last summer, in a prepared for the worst sort of way, and he only played a bare handful of games at much less than 50% of where he could be. A massive loss not just for Ulster but for Ireland, but we were already dealing with the prospect of never having a fully fit Ferris back for nearly two years if we are being honest with ourselves. Like Wallace, already a peripheral figure for a long time before he formally left. This loss was felt a long time before he called it a day- just happy the Ravenhill crowd got to wish him fair well and he signed off with one last trademark wrecking ball tackle!
Johann Muller- will be the biggest loss of the lot in terms of leadership off the field, but as he said his body no longer let him perform to the standards he would like. Lineout general but had stopped contributing much around the field. Was in and out of the team a lot due to niggling injuries he'd find it harder to shake off after many years wear and tear.
Tom Court- beginning to show his age, less effective in the loose than before and much less effective in the scrums last year. Over the course of the season he eventually lost his status as an automatic first pick and was beginning to fall behind Callum Black in the pecking order.
John Afoa- mentally completely disinterested in playing for Ulster, absent for periods of the season and playing like it. Series of neck injuries in addition to this meant he was in and out of the squad and looked like a totally different player than he did in his first season. Gloucester will either get him back to his best or bemoan the biggest waste of money they've ever spent. A potentially world class player but poor form and issues surrounding his family making him- understandably I might add- unsettled in Belfast meant he was not worth the price of his contract. A prop who will be available all year will be a big improvement.

A lot of big names but when you look at it; not a lot of big performances from those big names in 2013/14. Not very many big performances at all, as a matter of fact!

The one big concern I have is Johann Mullers leadership. If we could transplant his head and brain onto Iain Hendersons body we'd be cooking on gas!

No, but I don't think any of the above departures will weaken us anywhere near as people think- except in the leadership department.

By all accounts Franco may be a step up in the playing stakes on Muller of the last 18 months. Leadership is a big issue mind you.

Ludik I wouldn't label as a journey man before he pulls on the shirt and the simple truth is we don't know how good Herbst and Murphy will be. I would not be bemoaning the potential lack of gametime for Peter Nelson as a reason to knock Ludik as I haven't seen anything to suggest he should be ahead of Ricky Andrew!

We might struggle but I tend to be a bit like Don. I'm quietly optimistic. No one is talking about us but the spine of the team is in place. Leadership and a happy camp is key. Fingers crossed the Anscombe decision pays off

It sounds like the last time we had a unified squad was in the wake of Spence's death,  when we went on a long unbroken winning streak.

OK, I hope I'm wrong.

I hope Franco van der Merwe plays like a fully fledged Springbok second row and gives us a perfect combination of physicality and on-field smarts that we will need in Muller's absence.
I hope Louis Ludik demonstrates that he is worthy of a NIQ signing and becomes an integral member of the first team squad.
I hope that Herbst is as good as many on here appear to believe and that we don't notice any drop in quality in the big European games.
I also hope that Robbie Diack and Chris Henry stay injury-free all year - because we have no one of any proven ability at inter-provincial level to step in in their absence.
I hope we never need a third hooker all season long.
And finally, I hope that Les Kiss is up to the job in his first rugby union head coaching role. In my view, he is the most unproven of all our new signings - and the most important.

I guess we'll have a pretty good view on things by Christmas. So I'm willing to wait and see...

I definitely think that your hopes on the first three points will be fulfilled. I'm extremely confident about that.

As for Diack, Henry and the hooker situation- I share your concern.

Yeah - hooker is especially worrisome.

In back row, though, we're only really down a Sean Doyle. And he only really came good towards the end of the season. With Van Der Merwe being fitter and stronger than Muller, Henderson could end up at six for us more often than previously. So the back-up openside is all to play for, but I think Henderson (in Diack's absence) and Wilson at 6 and 8 are two thirds of a very good back row.

I honestly think it will be a massive boost having someone who can play flyhalf in Jackson's absence, after seasons of NOC, McKinney and an increasingly positionally rusty Pienaar.

Don Alfonso wrote:I honestly think it will be a massive boost having someone who can play flyhalf in Jackson's absence, after seasons of NOC, McKinney and  an increasingly positionally rusty Pienaar.

Yep swings and roundabouts. All this time we've been in an even worse situation at 10 than we have in the back row and that has been resolved.

I would be dubious about Henderson being moved to 6 Don. Anscombe hinted last season that Ireland saw him more as a lock than a 6. I see no reason for things to have changed given his performance levels. It's his shirt to lose IMO. Tuohy and VDM have a job to do.

No worries about depth at hooker lads, Ruaidhri Murphy is on at hooker for the Brumbies and his darts are spot on so far. Versatile must be his middle name, he can play all 3 front row positions.

Connacht fans will love seeing Bundee Aki scoring a nice try and dumping players all over the park.

Apparently he did it earlier in the season, and his darts were awful but that was his first time in at hooker! He's been asked to fill in there due to an injury crisis...

He did well at the weekend anyway, it's nice to know as a last resort you have someone who can do a job if needed

Exactly, versatility in front rowers isn't common but we will have Herbst who is equally at home at loose head as he is at tight head and Murphy who can do a job in all 3 positions. Now to get Rory working on his propping abilities

I don't want versatile front rowers, I want specialists!

We have four tight head props and three loose heads in the senior squad, two hookers and then there is Jonny Murphy and John Andrew who are hookers training with the senior squad. Kyle McCall has played right across the front row and might be being groomed as a hooker. So we hopefully won't need to move guys around!

These guys are specialists in their preferred positions.

HOWEVER....

If lightning were to strike twice and we were facing the latter stages of the season down to bare bones and academy players I wouldn't mind having the strongest cover we can muster as relying on an academy player to suddenly become rugby gold hasn't worked in the past and I'd rather not take the gamble if we've guys who can do a real job in a position needing cover.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to have a player in the front row because he's versatile, I want him there because he's the best we have available. It seems these two have come with that added bonus.

I haven't heard much about this new signing. Here's hoping he's one of those unknowns that becomes an Ulster household name soon

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,3825_9392495,00.html

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/1633/Reidy-keen-to-take-his-chance-.aspx

Yes Pete, a new signing no-one knows too much about- basically here on a trial. I'm not sure if that is six months or a year he is contracted for.

Look at the size of Stuart Olding now- talk about bulking up...

Stuart Olding and Michael Heaney in Pre-Season training:

Jeeeebus!!!!!!!

I hope he's not compromised the skills he had in abundance just to be so..........freakin huge!!!

I can't wait to see him in action again, he is in my very humble opinion the most exciting talent I've seen since BOD hit the scene many moons ago.

Franco is here!

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/1635/Franco-van-der-Merwe-arrives-in-Belfast-.aspx

Is it churlish to hope that the Brumbies and Sharks lose their semi-finals tomorrow so we can get the last two players integrated (Murphy and Herbst)?

Kit Launch later today. Round collar from what I see in away kit preview image. Not sure about that...

I may be convinced when I see the full shirt. Bit footballish?

Lot of photos of pre-season training on the Ulster Facebook page

I'm loving the lastest gallery on the UR site showing scrummaging training with Mr Kiss.

Nick Williams' training methods seem a little laid back to say the least

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm loving the lastest gallery on the UR site showing scrummaging training with Mr Kiss.

Nick Williams' training methods seem a little laid back to say the least

He made me think of a big Panda bear.

clivemcl wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm loving the lastest gallery on the UR site showing scrummaging training with Mr Kiss.

Nick Williams' training methods seem a little laid back to say the least

He made me think of a big Panda bear.

I thought more of big masterly greyback, lord of all he surveys
He just looked like he was thinking 'frick this for a party just let me smash some opposition. You don't need to train to smash fellas.'

Thats Allen Clarke, not Les Kiss

Flippin is too, my head's a marley, dipstick.
Sorry Mr Clarke but you've dropped that much weight I didn't recognise you.
Sorry Mr Kiss as well

New Ulster kit, in those pictures it's so white its blinding. That'll be processed. Looks fine. Away kit looks poor. Purple...

http://www.kukrisports.co.uk/new-ulster-rugby-kit-201415-unveiled/

What an anti-climax. I certainly won't be paying out £60 for a new shirt until they change it significantly. Not that i want that to happen, but I just don't know why anyone would feel the need to part with £60 for that if they already own last seasons.

I don't understand why anyone would pay £60 for a shirt full stop. There are ones I've liked and ones I've disliked but the only 'replica' rugby shirts I've owned have been presents.

Seriously though, if someone had randomly shown me the above picture last week and said - 'Is this the season of shirt that is currently in your wardrobe?' - I might have said 'yes', at least 'maybe'.

You know I really think thats a good thing. There's only so many changes you can make before it's just plain crap. Don't mess with what works.

For a case in point, look at some of the terrible alternative kits we've had including this years one.

It's really not something worth announcing. They'd be better to announce the new kit with a big sign saying NOTHING NEW HERE.
I can't wait until Kukri do one to be honest, always hated their stuff, it fits and feels awful whatever they make it out of. Come back Cantebury.

Darren Cave was asked why he thought Humphreys went to Gloucester at this kit launch thing;

“I think David wanted to get over and make sure John Afoa could get home [to New Zealand] a few times next year,”

  

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/nick-williams-ulster-rugby-1598819-Jul2014/?utm_source=shortlink

That's one funny report. Plenty of humour from the lads there, it's good to hear they are in such great spirits in the run up to the new season.

I particularly liked Nick Williams summing up why players come across the globe to play in the european cup - “You come to play these big boys from across the water and the eye-gougers over in France.”

Less happy about Nick Williams having these chronic knee problems. We're only one or two injuries there away from being quite weak.

Henderson may yet be pressed into action in the back row.

Does Stuart Olding been in the pic of the New Jersey reflect the esteem he's held in by ulster management? All the other players Bowe, Payne, Trimble, Jackson, Best and Henry are the 'stars' of this team.

Golden, I would think the management would indeed hold Olding in similar high esteem to the others mentioned. I can't speak for the entire fanbase, management or logic itself but for me Stuart Olding is the most exciting young player I've seen since I first saw BOD hit the scene. If he fulfils his potential he will be a regular Ireland star of the future at inside centre.

Absolutely agree Pete can't wait to see him get a run in the team. Just think it's unusual that a young propect would be included in a media campaign like that. Usually it's the best, most recognisable players. The fact he as included ahead of players like piennarr, cave (even henderson would be a more established player) would indicate to me that they're counting on him having a prominent role in the team. Can't wait

I don't honestly think the coaches are sitting down brainstorming about who should be in the photoshoots. It doesn't mean a whole lot if he has a stinker in his first few games.

I think he will be a star, if he doesn't change his style of play, but I don't think that a photo-op means anything