La Liga thread

by kingraf Wed 20 Aug 2014, 2:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well, with the league in Spain restarting soon, thought I'd put this up. Backed Atlético to repeat this year, and watching last nights game, think I could be right. Think Real will find that we've gone and bought more coats of paint on the Bentley, having sold the engine... Again. It's like history really is bound to repeat itself.

by **Crimey** Tue 19 May 2015, 5:04 pm

With the Gerrard example, it's probably a bad example because that came AFTER he had won the Champions League and only had the Premier League left to win to have won everything he could at club level. Arguably the biggest regret of his career would have been losing the Champions League final had Liverpool not won.

I'm honestly surprised that it's even a debate, I would have thought it was quite clear that as an elite-level and international competition, the Champions League would have been considered a much more important competition to win than the domestic league. Winning the league is fantastic and rewarding, but winning the Champions League is an entirely different thing altogether. The Liverpool team that won the Champions League in 2005 will be remembered for longer than say the 1990 league winning side. That's without winning the league title. Real Madrid winning the Champions League last year will have meant more than winning the league in 2012. When Chelsea won the Champions League, it was 2 years since their last league win, but that didn't matter because they were champions of Europe.

I'm certain Ferguson would trade a couple of his Premier League wins to have made more of an impact on a European level.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue 19 May 2015, 5:09 pm

He wouldn't do such a thing at all.

by kingraf Tue 19 May 2015, 5:12 pm

The other way to look at it is cause effect. How many teams which aren't capable of winning the league will generally be fighting it out in the Champs League? you can point to Chelsea, which is a reasonable team to look at given the scarcity of either before 2004-05. I don't think them winning the league etc first had anything to do with it being more important. They just couldn't win the Champions League. It had nothing to do with priorities. Mourinho football is more geared towards the league in any case, it's high percentage stuff which over 38 weeks against in the main inferior opposition, works. It doesn't work as well when the teams you'll face are roughly on the same level as you for the final five games. Chelsea's flukey victory aside, every Champs League winner in the last period of time has been there or thereabouts in the league. With,
Utd
Barça
Inter
Barça
Munich
all snagging league Europe doubles.

by **Crimey** Tue 19 May 2015, 5:13 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He wouldn't do such a thing at all.

I think the reason Manchester United fans value the league so highly compared to Europe is because Ferguson always found it easier at a national level than he ever did at Europe. Dominating the Premier League means that it's easier for fans of Manchester United to then say that it's more important than the Champions League because Manchester United simply weren't the same beast at that level.

I think Ferguson would have loved to have made more of an impact at a European level, obviously he still did exceptionally well with two Champions League wins and two runner-up medals, but compared to the domestic dominance, Manchester United were never really a force on a European level and are arguably not viewed in the same way that Barcelona of 08-11 are because of this.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue 19 May 2015, 5:18 pm

Crimey wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:He wouldn't do such a thing at all.

I think the reason Manchester United fans value the league so highly compared to Europe is because Ferguson always found it easier at a national level than he ever did at Europe. Dominating the Premier League means that it's easier for fans of Manchester United to then say that it's more important than the Champions League because Manchester United simply weren't the same beast at that level.

I think Ferguson would have loved to have made more of an impact at a European level, obviously he still did exceptionally well with two Champions League wins and two runner-up medals, but compared to the domestic dominance, Manchester United were never really a force on a European level and are arguably not viewed in the same way that Barcelona of 08-11 are because of this.

Fergusons aim was to knock you lot off your perch and he achieved that, he would not swap a single one of those league titles for a greater impact in Europe, the whole aura around the club was about domestic dominance.

by **Crimey** Tue 19 May 2015, 5:32 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:He wouldn't do such a thing at all.

I think the reason Manchester United fans value the league so highly compared to Europe is because Ferguson always found it easier at a national level than he ever did at Europe. Dominating the Premier League means that it's easier for fans of Manchester United to then say that it's more important than the Champions League because Manchester United simply weren't the same beast at that level.

I think Ferguson would have loved to have made more of an impact at a European level, obviously he still did exceptionally well with two Champions League wins and two runner-up medals, but compared to the domestic dominance, Manchester United were never really a force on a European level and are arguably not viewed in the same way that Barcelona of 08-11 are because of this.

Fergusons aim was to knock you lot off your perch and he achieved that, he would not swap a single one of those league titles for a greater impact in Europe, the whole aura around the club was about domestic dominance.

And the club is lesser for it I think.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue 19 May 2015, 5:39 pm

We're the most successful team in English domestic football, lets be honest the last thing a Liverpool wanted to happen was that. We win an extra European cup or two and you lot don't care but you bloody cared about that record of 18 league titles, hell it was the only thing Pool fans went on about on the old 606.

It was the classic sign off of 18-5, that five has not been mentioned since we won that number 19. You will remember Gerrards slip like I remember Aguero's goal, you won't remember the 2007 final as vividly just like I won't remember the 2011 final.

by **Crimey** Tue 19 May 2015, 6:01 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:We're the most successful team in English domestic football, lets be honest the last thing a Liverpool wanted to happen was that. We win an extra European cup or two and you lot don't care but you bloody cared about that record of 18 league titles, hell it was the only thing Pool fans went on about on the old 606.

It was the classic sign off of 18-5, that five has not been mentioned since we won that number 19. You will remember Gerrards slip like I remember Aguero's goal, you won't remember the 2007 final as vividly just like I won't remember the 2011 final.

To be honest, I simply don't define my club's successes on the successes of it's rivals. As a view point, that is totally alien to me. I don't want Manchester United to win and I would rather Liverpool were still the most successful team in English domestic football but is that more important than the craziness of seeing Liverpool win a Champions League? Not a chance.

I know that lots of Liverpool fans probably do put a lot of value on being better than Manchester United, but it really is only a secondary reason for the want of success. Last season for example was fantastic for its own values, not because Liverpool were higher than Manchester United. Did that make it better? Slightly I guess, but it certainly rarely actually came into my head as reasons that Liverpool challenging for the title was good.

Perhaps it's just a personal thing, but I honestly do not put that much importance on the success of the rivals, I prefer to focus on the success of my own club on its own merits. I actually think the rivalries between clubs often feels very artificial. I think a lot of fans of a lot of clubs put far too much emphasis on it.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue 19 May 2015, 6:32 pm

I think you're a bit too young to fully appreciate the rivalry in that case.

by kingraf Tue 19 May 2015, 7:04 pm

All rivalries are artifical. Do hate Barça with a passion though. The whole Mes Que un Club thing, the "national team of Catalonia", the Catalunyan threat of separation..
every freaking second year. Consider me. It's one of life's unfortunate ironies my name is Catalan.

by Jermaine2015 Tue 19 May 2015, 9:27 pm

kingraf wrote:Misleading how? Were they expunged from the records? No? Okay.

Winning the league is in no way harder than winning The Big Ears. Although I can see why a Bayern fan would say that.

Also, even if you wish to remove all European Cup champions prior to 1992-93.... RealMa still have more Champions League proper wins than anyone else.

What are you trying to imply? Might I remind you we have won the European Cup/Champions League 5 times. And but for terrible luck, we'd have at least another 3 Champions League titles.

by Jermaine2015 Tue 19 May 2015, 9:31 pm

kingraf wrote:Imagine that... the guy saying Pep is under pressure for not winning the Champs
League saying its a secondary goal.

Guardiola is under pressure due to FC Bayern 'forcing out' the fans favourite Jupp Heynckes. Heynckes' Champions League record is fantastic winner with Real Madrid, winner with FC Bayern and also runner up with FC Bayern.

So the appointment of Guardiola didn't sit well with every Bavarian.

by nadeem2099 Tue 19 May 2015, 9:32 pm

Jermaine2015 wrote:
kingraf wrote:Misleading how? Were they expunged from the records? No? Okay.

Winning the league is in no way harder than winning The Big Ears. Although I can see why a Bayern fan would say that.

Also, even if you wish to remove all European Cup champions prior to 1992-93.... RealMa still have more Champions League proper wins than anyone else.
What are you trying to imply? Might I remind you we have won the European Cup/Champions League 5 times. And but for terrible luck, we'd have at least another 3 Champions League titles.

Ole Gunnar Solskjær. Remember the name.

by Jermaine2015 Tue 19 May 2015, 9:33 pm

nadeem2099 wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:
kingraf wrote:Misleading how? Were they expunged from the records? No? Okay.

Winning the league is in no way harder than winning The Big Ears. Although I can see why a Bayern fan would say that.

Also, even if you wish to remove all European Cup champions prior to 1992-93.... RealMa still have more Champions League proper wins than anyone else.
What are you trying to imply? Might I remind you we have won the European Cup/Champions League 5 times. And but for terrible luck, we'd have at least another 3 Champions League titles.

Ole Gunnar Solskjær. Remember the name.

Ja ja ja...

by nadeem2099 Tue 19 May 2015, 9:39 pm

That was my first football match I ever saw. Bayern vs United in the champions league final. Epic game.

by Jermaine2015 Tue 19 May 2015, 9:45 pm

nadeem2099 wrote:That was my first football match I ever saw. Bayern vs United in the champions league final. Epic game.

Till this day I can't believe what happened...I think Lothar Matthaus still can't either

by nadeem2099 Tue 19 May 2015, 9:59 pm

The best "Super Sub" in the world happened. But both sides had some awesome players. United had the likes of Stam and giggs and Bayern had Khan and Effenberg.

by kingraf Wed 20 May 2015, 6:17 am

Jermaine2015 wrote:
kingraf wrote:Imagine that... the guy saying Pep is under pressure for not winning the Champs
League saying its a secondary goal.

Guardiola is under pressure due to FC Bayern 'forcing out' the fans favourite Jupp Heynckes. Heynckes' Champions League record is fantastic winner with Real Madrid, winner with FC Bayern and also runner up with FC Bayern.

So the appointment of Guardiola didn't sit well with every Bavarian.

I was actually speaking to Hammer.

Was Jupp forced out? Thought he retired?

by Jermaine2015 Wed 20 May 2015, 9:10 pm

kingraf wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:
kingraf wrote:Imagine that... the guy saying Pep is under pressure for not winning the Champs
League saying its a secondary goal.

Guardiola is under pressure due to FC Bayern 'forcing out' the fans favourite Jupp Heynckes. Heynckes' Champions League record is fantastic winner with Real Madrid, winner with FC Bayern and also runner up with FC Bayern.

So the appointment of Guardiola didn't sit well with every Bavarian.

I was actually speaking to Hammer.

Was Jupp forced out? Thought he retired?

Once Pep Guardiola became available, FC Bayern became obsessed with appointing him.

Jupp Heynckes wanted to say on and try to replicate his treble again, but FC Bayern forced him into retirement. Heynckes wasn't even able to contest the UEFA Super Cup or the FIFA Club World Cup, which for me was very unfair.

by **Crimey** Thu 21 May 2015, 7:57 am

Apparently Ancelotti is all but gone with Benitez replacing him.

Could easily set in motion a domino of manager moves, can see Klopp taking over at Napoli, Ancelotti to Manchester City, Pellegrini then left outside but surely there will be a team interested in him, he's a possibility for Napoli as well.

by kingraf Thu 21 May 2015, 8:13 am

That will not end well. Bénitez has done a job at Napoli, but he hasn't won a league title as a manager in what a decade?

He's a Madrileno though, so the fans should be a little easy on him.

by kingraf Thu 21 May 2015, 8:20 am

Jermaine2015 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:
kingraf wrote:Imagine that... the guy saying Pep is under pressure for not winning the Champs
League saying its a secondary goal.

Guardiola is under pressure due to FC Bayern 'forcing out' the fans favourite Jupp Heynckes. Heynckes' Champions League record is fantastic winner with Real Madrid, winner with FC Bayern and also runner up with FC Bayern.

So the appointment of Guardiola didn't sit well with every Bavarian.

I was actually speaking to Hammer.

Was Jupp forced out? Thought he retired?
Once Pep Guardiola became available, FC Bayern became obsessed with appointing him.

Jupp Heynckes wanted to say on and try to replicate his treble again, but FC Bayern forced him into retirement. Heynckes wasn't even able to contest the UEFA Super Cup or the FIFA Club World Cup, which for me was very unfair.

Fair enough, though I don't think Bayern could have done any better with Heynckes. League cup double, League, CL semi final X2. Guardiola has a fantastic resume himself in the Champions League. Two wins himself, and has never failed to reach the final four.

by **Crimey** Thu 21 May 2015, 4:20 pm

kingraf wrote:That will not end well. Bénitez has done a job at Napoli, but he hasn't won a league title as a manager in what a decade?

He's a Madrileno though, so the fans should be a little easy on him.

He also famously struggled at Liverpool once the owners began to interfere.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 21 May 2015, 5:36 pm

Quite a different ball game though. He didnt have world class players at Liverpool

by **Crimey** Thu 21 May 2015, 6:27 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Quite a different ball game though. He didnt have world class players at Liverpool

For a while he had some of the best players in the world though with Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard, Xabi Alonso, Pepe Reina, Javier Mascherano. Obviously nobody like Ronaldo, but hardly a poor first team at all. The main problem was always squad depth which could be a problem at Real Madrid.

I think the main problem at Liverpool with Hicks and Gillet was a lack of funds given anyway, which shouldn't be a problem at all at Real Madrid. He's also a good coach, so maybe taking the pressure of transfers away from him will do him good.

by Hammersmith harrier Thu 21 May 2015, 6:44 pm

kingraf wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:
kingraf wrote:Imagine that... the guy saying Pep is under pressure for not winning the Champs
League saying its a secondary goal.

Guardiola is under pressure due to FC Bayern 'forcing out' the fans favourite Jupp Heynckes. Heynckes' Champions League record is fantastic winner with Real Madrid, winner with FC Bayern and also runner up with FC Bayern.

So the appointment of Guardiola didn't sit well with every Bavarian.

I was actually speaking to Hammer.

Was Jupp forced out? Thought he retired?
Once Pep Guardiola became available, FC Bayern became obsessed with appointing him.

Jupp Heynckes wanted to say on and try to replicate his treble again, but FC Bayern forced him into retirement. Heynckes wasn't even able to contest the UEFA Super Cup or the FIFA Club World Cup, which for me was very unfair.

Fair enough, though I don't think Bayern could have done any better with Heynckes. League cup double, League, CL semi final X2. Guardiola has a fantastic resume himself in the Champions League. Two wins himself, and has never failed to reach the final four.

Bayern under Heynckes wouldn't have been rolled over by Barcelona or Real Madrid so I do think they'd have been better off sticking with the same manager, the double and title were always going to happen regardless of who was in charge.

by Guest Sat 23 May 2015, 9:13 pm

Back to back Ronaldo hat tricks, la liga defending is comical

by kingraf Sun 24 May 2015, 8:05 am

Especially when you consider how well the four best teams in England defended in the Champions League...

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 24 May 2015, 9:46 am

LiamB wrote:Back to back Ronaldo hat tricks, la liga defending is comical

Don't be silly Liam the defending in La Liga is top notch and the league in general is so much better than the Premier League.... Oh wait silly me, it's a three man league with 19 teams who couldn't defend if they had 22 players.

by monty junior Sun 24 May 2015, 9:31 pm

kingraf wrote:That will not end well. Bénitez has done a job at Napoli, but he hasn't won a league title as a manager in what a decade?

He's a Madrileno though, so the fans should be a little easy on him.

I don't think he's done a great job with them, before he came they were second and they have finished below that the following 2 seasons despite spending a lot of money. Coupled with some poor failures in Europe, going out to Bilbao in the CL quali rounds and somehow losing their EL semi to a far inferior side. Rubbish at Inter too, any club with real league aspirations then this is not the man.

by Nakatomi Plaza Mon 25 May 2015, 7:40 pm

Crimey wrote:Apparently Ancelotti is all but gone with Benitez replacing him.

Could easily set in motion a domino of manager moves, can see Klopp taking over at Napoli, Ancelotti to Manchester City, Pellegrini then left outside but surely there will be a team interested in him, he's a possibility for Napoli as well.

Been confirmed that Ancelotti is out. Looks like he'll take a season sabbatical, as he's having back surgery. Guess he'll have to compete against Sam Allardyce for the big jobs come 2016/17.

by GSC Mon 25 May 2015, 7:41 pm

Rafa at Real should be a cracking 6 months

by Holymiky Mon 25 May 2015, 8:29 pm

Do you not think Klopp could be in the running also?

by kingraf Mon 25 May 2015, 8:30 pm

GSC wrote:Rafa at Real should be a cracking 6 months

I predict a rather boring brand of football with terms like "Efficiency" and "Planning" touted. Not the RealMa way. It's not gonna end well is it?

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 25 May 2015, 8:31 pm

It will be like Mourinho being back but worse.

by GSC Mon 25 May 2015, 8:52 pm

Signing someone about to take over West Ham isnt either. Seems like its destined to end in tears

by Jermaine2015 Mon 25 May 2015, 8:53 pm

Holymiky wrote:Do you not think Klopp could be in the running also?

No Jurgen Klopp is taking a 6 month break after leaving Borussia Dortmund. He's keeping an eye on Manchester United and FC Bayern

by Corporalhumblebucket Mon 25 May 2015, 9:27 pm

Nakatomi Plaza wrote:
Crimey wrote:Apparently Ancelotti is all but gone with Benitez replacing him.

Could easily set in motion a domino of manager moves, can see Klopp taking over at Napoli, Ancelotti to Manchester City, Pellegrini then left outside but surely there will be a team interested in him, he's a possibility for Napoli as well.

Been confirmed that Ancelotti is out. Looks like he'll take a season sabbatical, as he's having back surgery. Guess he'll have to compete against Sam Allardyce for the big jobs come 2016/17.

by Holymiky Sat 30 May 2015, 8:42 pm

Who's watching the Copa Del Rey final like me?

by Holymiky Sat 30 May 2015, 8:50 pm

What a goal from Messi.

by Fernando Fri 05 Jun 2015, 10:57 am

Elche has been relegated from La Liga over money issues, Which means Eibar survive La Liga thread - Page 7 3559488474

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri 05 Jun 2015, 6:02 pm

So elche with a few million debt go down....

Don't Madrid and Barcelona have over a billions worth of debt between them?

by kingraf Fri 05 Jun 2015, 6:05 pm

No need for peasant talk.

by nadeem2099 Mon 08 Jun 2015, 4:05 pm

Real madrid have activated their buyback clause on Casemiro from Porto. Porto were supposedly trying to make the deal permanent but madrid activated the clause.

by Fernando Sun 23 Aug 2015, 8:54 pm

Barca pinch a 1-0 win against Bilbao
Madrid are 0-0 with Gijon with 20 to go and Karim Benzema is nowhere in sight he is injured apparently, It's a shame could use him now tbh.

by Fernando Sun 23 Aug 2015, 9:21 pm

Real draw 0-0 with Gijon

Poor start for Rafa.

by nadeem2099 Fri 11 Sep 2015, 12:58 pm

Atletico vs Barca tomorrow. Should be a good un.

by kingraf Sat 12 Sep 2015, 5:55 pm

RONALDOOOOOOO!!!

Espanyol was pretty Poopie. Incredible to see how bad they've gotten in a few seasons. The la liGa wealth disparity is not treating them well

by Fernando Sat 12 Sep 2015, 8:37 pm

Atletico 1-0 Barca - Fernando Torres.

Got some pace back, Got there before Jordi Alba.

by Fernando Sat 12 Sep 2015, 8:41 pm

Atletico 1-1 Barcelona - Neymar

Quality Free Kick

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