Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread V - The Fun Continues

[IanBru]

First topic message reminder :

Banter through the ages:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv

Well friends, the pre-season has come and gone, now things get real.

A. Edinburgh Rugby


1. Pre-Season

Edinburgh 10-11 Leicester Tigers
Edinburgh 21-15 Newcastle Falcons

2. Results
Munster 13-14 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 13-14 Connacht
Ospreys 62-13 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 20-20 Scarlets
Ulster 30-0 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 24-10 Newport Gwent Dragons
Bordeaux-Bègles 13-15 Edinburgh

3. Upcoming Fixtures

Friday 24 Oct 2014 - 19:45 (TBC)
Lyon   (H)   -   European Rugby Challenge Cup

B. Glasgow Warriors


1. Pre-Season Results
Glasgow Warriors 23-24 Harlequins
London Scottish 19-38 Glasgow Warriors

2. Results
Glasgow Warriors 22-20 Leinster
Cardiff Blues 12-33 Glasgow Warriors
Newport Gwent Dragons 13-33 Glasgow Warriors
Glasgow Warriors 39 - 21 Connacht
Benetton Treviso 23-40 Glasgow Warriors
Ulster 29-9 Glasgow Warriors


3. Upcoming Fixtures

Sat 18 Oct 2014 - 15:15 (Live on BT Sport 2)
Bath   (H)   -   European Rugby Champions Cup

Sat 25 Oct 2014 - 18:15 (Live on Sky Sports)
Montpellier Herault   (A)   -   European Rugby Champions Cup

Any and all discussion of things rugby-related is welcome. Restaurant recommendations are openly sought. Introductions to eligible young people would be fantastic. Bullying, jingoism, and wang-measuring is not on.

We need to move forwards not backwards, upwards not forwards, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

[RDW]

I suppose it comes down to what age you are in terms of being worried about the future effectiveness of your nuts - I'm sure some men of a certain age would be quite relieved to know their swimmers are no longer working!

[Totalflanker]

Edinburgh take Hugh Blake and Jade Te Rure on trial

Cracking bit of reporting from the beeb 'South African flanker Hugh Blake and Kiwi fly-half Jade Te Rure have joined Edinburgh on trial' not sure whether Blake is aware he has South African as well as Scottish roots.

Jade Te Rude looks an interesting one tho...

[Totalflanker]

Highlights reel....

http://vimeo.com/108187520

[justified sinner]

Nice spot. Looks lively from that only thing is he had teammates running nice lines for him; Strauss anyone?

[BigGee]

Scotland qualify for the cup competition in the south Africa sevens. Second cup qualification in 2 weeks, things are certainly improving on that front this year

Credit where credit is due!

[EWT Spoons]

Not sure about Te Rure, he might be a decent player, but his highlights reel when it comes to carries is pretty unimpressive. He basically gets about 5 yards. Which don't get me wrong is fine, and all well and good, but it's probably not what should be classed as "highlights".

Plus given he's a 10 and we have Heathcote, Tonks and Bezzy (in theory) do we really need another relatively inexperienced 10 on the books?

I'm probably being a bit harsh, and he's only on trial with us.

[justified sinner]

Bezzy is broken and was never any good in the first place,
.my view is get rid at the end of the season. So bringing someone in on trial makes sense to me.

What I don't understand is why Edinburgh are getting all the players from Lineen's fishing trips, why none to Glasgow?

[VinceWLB]

Agreed, Glasgow could definitely have done with someone like Hugh Blake this afternoon.

[justified sinner]

Someone on the Embra Twitter just spotted that Sky claimed that Toulouse remain unbeaten in Scotland. That's an interesting interpretation, because I was at both the games when Embra beat them.

Quarter finals and pool game, btw

[BigGee]

Agreed, Glasgow could definitely have done with someone like Hugh Blake this afternoon.

Maybe they will get John Hardie if he does come onto the market!

[George Carlin]

Steve McColl scored a good try for the Cherries against Zebre this afternoon.
The only piece of good news relating to Scottish rugby that I could find.

[RDW]

Well the 7s made it to the cup quarter finals despite only winning 1 of 3 games!

[IanBru]

I've one more piece of good news about Scottish rugby: Nathan Hines is still an evil genius.

https://twitter.com/vern_cotter/status/543857132094099458

[BigGee]

I watched the Sarries game as well and Kelly Brown and Duncan Taylor in particular had very good games in their win. I thought DT was in with a shout of MoM in fact, he was very good with ball and in defence playing at 12. He should not be forgotten about in the centre mix.

The old warhorse Nathan Hines played for Sale as well and showed that he has still got it. Really shored up their pack and can still put it about a bit if required. If he had to, I am sure he could still play international rugby! I personally think we have moved on, but with the VC connection, you never know!

[R!skysports]

The more this season goes on, the more i realise that a corner has not been turned

For all the positivity and talk on how we are developing and how Glasgow are now a force - I really do not see it

The AI was dis-jointed and we did not exactly set the heather alive - one good win and the rest ok

Glasgow have done the typical Scottish thing of win a big game (bath) and then not follow it up and look like they are out of it again (baring something special) - only difference this year is that we are out after 4 games rather than 2

I see no difference between this season and any other - and I really worry we are going to end up fighting over last place with Italy in the 6 nations again as I do not see any team we can realistically beat on a standard day

On an average day....

England - no chance
Wales - no chance
Ireland - no chance
France - only if they implode

I know I am MR Positive, :-)

[alive555]

The more this season goes on, the more i realise that a corner has not been turned

For all the positivity and talk on how we are developing and how Glasgow are now a force - I really do not see it

The AI was dis-jointed and we did not exactly set the heather alive - one good win and the rest ok

Glasgow have done the typical Scottish thing of win a big game (bath) and then not follow it up and look like they are out of it again (baring something special) - only difference this year is that we are out after 4 games rather than 2

I see no difference between this season and any other - and I really worry we are going to end up fighting over last place with Italy in the 6  nations again as I do not see any team we can realistically beat on a standard day

On an average day....

England - no chance
Wales - no chance
Ireland - no chance
France - only if they implode

I know I am MR Positive, :-)

the source of our problems seems to be the front row, especially th prop. we cant win stable ball at club or international level; and with that you are always going to struggle to win many games.

big issue imho.

[George Carlin]

The more this season goes on, the more i realise that a corner has not been turned

For all the positivity and talk on how we are developing and how Glasgow are now a force - I really do not see it

The AI was dis-jointed and we did not exactly set the heather alive - one good win and the rest ok

Glasgow have done the typical Scottish thing of win a big game (bath) and then not follow it up and look like they are out of it again (baring something special) - only difference this year is that we are out after 4 games rather than 2

I see no difference between this season and any other - and I really worry we are going to end up fighting over last place with Italy in the 6  nations again as I do not see any team we can realistically beat on a standard day

On an average day....

England - no chance
Wales - no chance
Ireland - no chance
France - only if they implode

I know I am MR Positive, :-)

I kind of agree with this Risky but I am reserving judgement until after the Montpellier game.

It is Glasgow's last home game and they need a BP win to give them any sort of momentum going into the final round.
Nothing else will do. Great teams respond to bad games and this Glasgow side needs to show that they are still up for a fight.


That will give us a chance at qualifying with 19 or 20 points, but we still need to beat Bath at the Rec to do it, which is a much taller order than it was a month ago. There's this young man called Burgess, apparently.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

The more this season goes on, the more i realise that a corner has not been turned

For all the positivity and talk on how we are developing and how Glasgow are now a force - I really do not see it

The AI was dis-jointed and we did not exactly set the heather alive - one good win and the rest ok

Glasgow have done the typical Scottish thing of win a big game (bath) and then not follow it up and look like they are out of it again (baring something special) - only difference this year is that we are out after 4 games rather than 2

I see no difference between this season and any other - and I really worry we are going to end up fighting over last place with Italy in the 6  nations again as I do not see any team we can realistically beat on a standard day

On an average day....

England - no chance
Wales - no chance
Ireland - no chance
France - only if they implode

I know I am MR Positive, :-)

I kind of agree with this Risky but I am reserving judgement until after the Montpellier game.

It is Glasgow's last home game and they need a BP win to give them any sort of momentum going into the final round.
Nothing else will do. Great teams respond to bad games and this Glasgow side needs to show that they are still up for a fight.


That will give us a chance at qualifying with 19 or 20 points, but we still need to beat Bath at the Rec to do it, which is a much taller order than it was a month ago. There's this young man called Burgess, apparently.

Just wait until Russell puts him on his arse (gently of course)

[BigGee]

The more this season goes on, the more i realise that a corner has not been turned

For all the positivity and talk on how we are developing and how Glasgow are now a force - I really do not see it

The AI was dis-jointed and we did not exactly set the heather alive - one good win and the rest ok

Glasgow have done the typical Scottish thing of win a big game (bath) and then not follow it up and look like they are out of it again (baring something special) - only difference this year is that we are out after 4 games rather than 2

I see no difference between this season and any other - and I really worry we are going to end up fighting over last place with Italy in the 6  nations again as I do not see any team we can realistically beat on a standard day

On an average day....

England - no chance
Wales - no chance
Ireland - no chance
France - only if they implode

I know I am MR Positive, :-)

I kind of agree with this Risky but I am reserving judgement until after the Montpellier game.

It is Glasgow's last home game and they need a BP win to give them any sort of momentum going into the final round.
Nothing else will do. Great teams respond to bad games and this Glasgow side needs to show that they are still up for a fight.


That will give us a chance at qualifying with 19 or 20 points, but we still need to beat Bath at the Rec to do it, which is a much taller order than it was a month ago. There's this young man called Burgess, apparently.

The answer to that is in your statement, Glasgow are not a great team yet and if we thought they were, then we were getting carried away. They are a good team that on their day can play an intoxicating brand of rugby, but to be great you have to win things. Toulouse are a great team and they know it, they have 4 stars on their shirts and that is one of the reasons that they are so hard to beat. They can win without necessarily playing well, whereas we need our 100% A game to win games like that and it is very difficult to produce that week in week out.

A sense of perspective is needed here as well. Just because we lost narrowly twice to one of the giants of European rugby, does not make us a bad team either. It carries on getting harder and harder, the French sides, that take Europe seriously, get better and better. That is where we are and in reality will always be, we operate in a different financial world to them and our aim is to produce a team of Scottish players capable of playing at the top table. We are not that far away and just because we don't quite get there, does not make it a failure. I think we can and at times will win these games but I would never underestimate just how hard that will be and it is only going to get harder.

[George Carlin]

The more this season goes on, the more i realise that a corner has not been turned

For all the positivity and talk on how we are developing and how Glasgow are now a force - I really do not see it

The AI was dis-jointed and we did not exactly set the heather alive - one good win and the rest ok

Glasgow have done the typical Scottish thing of win a big game (bath) and then not follow it up and look like they are out of it again (baring something special) - only difference this year is that we are out after 4 games rather than 2

I see no difference between this season and any other - and I really worry we are going to end up fighting over last place with Italy in the 6  nations again as I do not see any team we can realistically beat on a standard day

On an average day....

England - no chance
Wales - no chance
Ireland - no chance
France - only if they implode

I know I am MR Positive, :-)

I kind of agree with this Risky but I am reserving judgement until after the Montpellier game.

It is Glasgow's last home game and they need a BP win to give them any sort of momentum going into the final round.
Nothing else will do. Great teams respond to bad games and this Glasgow side needs to show that they are still up for a fight.


That will give us a chance at qualifying with 19 or 20 points, but we still need to beat Bath at the Rec to do it, which is a much taller order than it was a month ago. There's this young man called Burgess, apparently.

The answer to that is in your statement, Glasgow are not a great team yet and if we thought they were, then we were getting carried away. They are a good team that on their day can play an intoxicating brand of rugby, but to be great you have to win things. Toulouse are a great team and they know it, they have 4 stars on their shirts and that is one of the reasons that they are so hard to beat. They can win without necessarily playing well, whereas we need our 100% A game to win games like that and it is very difficult to produce that week in week out.

A sense of perspective is needed here as well. Just because we lost narrowly twice to one of the giants of European rugby, does not make us a bad team either. It carries on getting harder and harder, the French sides, that take Europe seriously, get better and better. That is where we are and in reality will always be, we operate in a different financial world to them and our aim is to produce a team of Scottish players capable of playing at the top table. We are not that far away and just because we don't quite get there, does not make it a failure. I think we can and at times will win these games but I would never underestimate just how hard that will be and it is only going to get harder.

Wouldn't disagree with any of that. How Toonie recruits in the summer is really going to be crucial.

We know where the quality falls away outside our first choice XXIII and what sort of players we need (and in what positions) to take us up a level.

But will the SRU let us spend the money? We have got to get in the headspace where we feel we can offer players of the quality of Pienaar, Muller, Afoa, other young SANZAR up and comings plus established NH internationals a good home, a decent skin and a chance to win things. We need to be aggressive and smart in our recruitment because there will be a massive exodus of players around the world once the RWC is over.

[BigGee]

Glasgow do need to recruit this summer, there are a few going to call it a day, a few may want to move on and some are not good enough. We are going to be especially hamstrung by our commitment to the Scotland team in the world cup this autumn, probably more so than any other team in the world. Next year is going to be a tough year for Glasgow have no illusions.

Who do we recruit though? we are never going to be in the market for the top marquee signings from the world cup. Even the English sides are going to struggle to pick them up, the great bulk of them will head off to France. The second tier ones maybe, but they will still be expensive, though probably affordable but may be looking at a pension pot rather than an opportunity to win things. At that end of their career the injuries and the motivation often do start to catch up with.them. We will also have the old accusations that they are depriving Scottish talent of getting game time and developing, which will probably be true. It is almost a no win situation.

In all honesty I would prefer the current approach of trying to uncover some unfound gems, which we have been pretty good at so far. The carrot for some of them may be the chance to play international rugby, either through ancestry or residency. For some hungry young players, which is what we want, that will mean as much as the big cheque. If they can establish themselves, them that will come later.

It was mentioned on Saturday and it is something that we should be proud of, that 14 of the starting players were SQ, the only one left out being JS, who is getting there. What we can't afford to do is move to far away from that standard. It should not be forgotten that we have not been all that bad at developing some new players as well and that very much needs to continue.

Glasgow needs to remain a largely Scottish based team, one that the fans, the city and the country identifies with. That will be good for the club and good for Scottish rugby.

Recruitment therefore remains a very delicate balancing act to try and square all these different circles. What would help as well would be Edinburgh rising to the plate and providing their share of players for the national side. It is probably no accident that Glasgow's form has dipped during and since the AI's, giving up that many players in one go has been very difficult to recover from. On present predictions, it is not going to be any easier next year either.

[VinceWLB]

I told you guys Glasgow's form very early on was a worry, they indeed peaked too early, instead of improving and going from strenght to strenght they got complacent and started to doubt after the first hurdle. They haven't been able to score tries recently apart from the odd one from Matawalu.
I thought the forwards fronted up pretty well against Toulouse, it's the backs that let the team down and Toonie isn't exempt from any criticism imo.

As for recruitment for the summer Glasgow would need another enforcer of a second row, ideally someone like George Earle at the Scarlets, a scrummaging loosehead and an openside (maybe Hugh Blake if he turns out to be good).
If Downey doesn't improve they probably need another IC, DTH will be hard to replace if they doesn't re-sign him.

[George Carlin]

On an unrelated note, why do women (my wife in particular) make absolutely no sense and seem to operate to a constant double standard?

[RDW]

Whatever it is GC, it must be your fault somehow. You might not know it, you might never find out, or at least you won't find out until 6 months later when you try to tell them they've done something wrong and they say 'well how about that time you did that thing 6 months ago!'

[GLove39]

No time for domestic chit chat gents.

Heard a horrible & hopefully untrue rumour that Bath have agreed to sign Matawalu

[madmaccas]

No time for domestic chit chat gents.

Heard a horrible & hopefully untrue rumour that Bath have agreed to sign Matawalu

Yep that's what the RugbyPaper are reporting. Apparently he will join after the RWC so we have him until May. Very sad and a bit disappointing as we gave him his first pro contract. Still, can't blame the lad as he's only being used as an impact sub this season.

[highland_scot]

Heard on Forth 1 this morning Solomons thinks that Edinburgh are now arguably the better of the 2 Scottish pro sides. After two less than inspirational victories over London Welsh. I want what he's been smoking!

[BigGee]

I would be surprised if being an impact sub is not going to be his role at Bath either, at the end of the day that is what he is best at. This move is ultimately going to come down to money, he will be looking for a decent pay rise and we won't be able to match what they can pay. Probably Glasgow have decided that big Naka, who would also have been looking for a rise, is probably the shrewder investment. I am not sure I would disagree with that.

I would like to see us bring on one of the youngsters this year a bit more if that is going to be the case, either that or we are going to be in the market for another SH.

Niko will always have a special place in the hearts of Glasgow supporters though, despite the fact that he has never quite recaptured the form of his initial season.

[George Carlin]

Oh my god.

That's my whole week fecked, if that is true.

[R!skysports]

Oh my god.

That's my whole week fecked, if that is true.

Which your missus will blame you for

[RDW]

Niko has probably reached his full potential at Glasgow - he's an attacking phenomenon, but I just don't think you can ever train him the game management skills required to be a truly top class 9. Plus, opposition teams have sussed him out now and he's no where near as effective.

It will leave the cupboard a bit bare at Glasgow, unless the young academy 9s really step up over the next year.

[BigGee]

Niko has probably reached his full potential at Glasgow - he's an attacking phenomenon, but I just don't think you can ever train him the game management skills required to be a truly top class 9. Plus, opposition teams have sussed him out now and he's no where near as effective.

It will leave the cupboard a bit bare at Glasgow, unless the young academy 9s really step up over the next year.

That's exactly where I am with Niko, love him to bits, but he has never really quite as effective as that first season when he burst on to the scene and no one had a clue what to do with him. He is not someone we can mortgage the family silver to keep. 3 big contracts have been signed already with Strauss, Hoggy and Naka, someone had to give I'm afraid and he may not be the only one who goes. That unfortunately is our financial reality and the world of professional sport. We will always struggle against the big boys, but it makes it even sweeter when we beat them!

I do believe that we may have had the best of him though, he has certainly given us some unforgettable moments.

[VinceWLB]

Niko has probably reached his full potential at Glasgow - he's an attacking phenomenon, but I just don't think you can ever train him the game management skills required to be a truly top class 9. Plus, opposition teams have sussed him out now and he's no where near as effective.

It will leave the cupboard a bit bare at Glasgow, unless the young academy 9s really step up over the next year.

Disagree with that, still a work in progress at 9 imo, his passing has for instance improved and there is still room for improvement in other parts of his game.

[RDW]

Niko has probably reached his full potential at Glasgow - he's an attacking phenomenon, but I just don't think you can ever train him the game management skills required to be a truly top class 9. Plus, opposition teams have sussed him out now and he's no where near as effective.

It will leave the cupboard a bit bare at Glasgow, unless the young academy 9s really step up over the next year.

Disagree with that, still a work in progress at 9 imo, his passing has for instance improved and there is still room for improvement in other parts of his game.

I'm not saying he's not going to improve - of course he will - I as more meaning that on a whole I can't see Glasgow getting much more out of him than they've already got. As in I can't see him gaining the basic skills and all round game management of Pyrgos combined with his mental attacking ability.

[George Carlin]

I am always nervous when you lose a player for whom there is no obvious replacement for their skillset. Whom would you buy who can split a game open at 9? There isn't anyone that we could realistically get (Parra, Pienaar, Care and Fotuali'i are the only ones I can think of and none of them offer the same broken field running or indeed would be available to us). I think that only Strauss, Dunbar, DTH, Seymour, Gray and Hogg are more valuable to the side.

Just because Toonie hasn't played him as much doesn't mean that he shouldn't have.
How many MoM performances has Niko given? Loads.
How many games has he been the difference between winning and losing? At least 5 that I can count.

I would rather we saved money be not signing 5 Ascarates and McGuigans to be honest.

[VinceWLB]

Niko has probably reached his full potential at Glasgow - he's an attacking phenomenon, but I just don't think you can ever train him the game management skills required to be a truly top class 9. Plus, opposition teams have sussed him out now and he's no where near as effective.

It will leave the cupboard a bit bare at Glasgow, unless the young academy 9s really step up over the next year.

Disagree with that, still a work in progress at 9 imo, his passing has for instance improved and there is still room for improvement in other parts of his game.

I'm not saying he's not going to improve - of course he will - I as more meaning that on a whole I can't see Glasgow getting much more out of him than they've already got. As in I can't see him gaining the basic skills and all round game management of Pyrgos combined with his mental attacking ability.

This is true, when he comes in late in a game we are all crying out for him to start the next game then we all end up disappointed as he can't manage a game as well as Pyrgos from 9, which is frustrating but further proof he is a great impact subs, not more.

However still think he came on a good 10-15 min too late at the weekend and Glasgow ran out of time at the end.

[R!skysports]

I am always nervous when you lose a player for whom there is no obvious replacement for their skillset. Whom would you buy who can split a game open at 9? There isn't anyone that we could realistically get (Parra, Pienaar, Care and Fotuali'i are the only ones I can think of and none of them offer the same broken field running or indeed would be available to us). I think that only Strauss, Dunbar, DTH, Seymour, Gray and Hogg are more valuable to the side.

Just because Toonie hasn't played him as much doesn't mean that he shouldn't have.
How many MoM performances has Niko given? Loads.
How many games has he been the difference between winning and losing? At least 5 that I can count.

I would rather we saved money be not signing 5 Ascarates and McGuigans to be honest.

But how many have been changing it to winning and how many to losing :-)

[RDW]

I am always nervous when you lose a player for whom there is no obvious replacement for their skillset. Whom would you buy who can split a game open at 9? There isn't anyone that we could realistically get (Parra, Pienaar, Care and Fotuali'i are the only ones I can think of and none of them offer the same broken field running or indeed would be available to us). I think that only Strauss, Dunbar, DTH, Seymour, Gray and Hogg are more valuable to the side.

Just because Toonie hasn't played him as much doesn't mean that he shouldn't have.
How many MoM performances has Niko given? Loads.
How many games has he been the difference between winning and losing? At least 5 that I can count.

I would rather we saved money be not signing 5 Ascarates and McGuigans to be honest.

But how many have been changing it to winning and how many to losing :-)

Worth remembering that he hardly covered himself with glory in the Pro 12 final too, where all his faults were exposed much to Glasgow's detriment…

[EWT Spoons]

I don’t think it’s fair to say the opposition have sussed him out, as I’m not sure his teammates have managed that yet.  He is still capable of doing something that most folk wouldn’t have thought of let alone tried.  The issue with Matawalu is that he can put you into trouble or waste an opportunity as much as he can create something out of nothing.

If you are looking to manage a game then he’s not the player to hang your hat on.  If you are looking to throw a hail Mary pass, then he’s your man.  Putting him onto the pitch is like the coach saying “I have no idea how we are going to win this game…sod it lets see if the mental one can do something”.

As has been said, he is best used as an impact sub, when everything else you’ve tried hasn’t worked.  I’m also of the opinion that he’s better utilised on the wing rather than at 9.  I’m probably in a minority here, but on the wing you could start him, as his unique brand of WTF rugby is less likely to cause issues to the side, whilst still benefiting from his pace and jinking feet.   I know Toonie has played him there in the past, so not suggesting anything radical, but maybe the player doesn’t feel that’s the right position for him.

[BigGee]

There really is not that much deadwood in the Glasgow squad that you could say was a waste of money. Even talking about McGuigan and Ascarte, they did not cost a lot of money to sign, a fraction of what it costs to sign a true quality player

Niko was cheap when we signed him. It was a good bit of business to tie him in for another couple of years which probably did not break the bank either. He has got a decent market value now though, as had Hoggy, Strauss and Naka and so hard decisions had to be made. If we could have kept them all, then I am sure we would have done.

None of those other top SH's mentioned will be playing in the Pro 12, let alone at Glasgow. Most won't even be playing in the UK. Niko was not Bath's first choice, they were after Will Genia, but they could not afford him either and he will be going to France along with pretty much all the other big SH names.

Unfortunately we are where we are in the pecking order but that does not mean that we cannot develop some good players or uncover some new gems. That is how we have to play it I'm afraid.

[alive555]

Does Bath have a bigger salary base than Glasgow ? I thought Scottish teams were relatively well funded ?

[MacKnocked-on]

Could Glasgow not look to Fiji, Samoa or Tonga to find another potential Niko or two, ideally one who isn't already tied to playing for Fiji like Niko was?

[George Carlin]

Still a crowd favourite moving on. All fair comments though.

More importantly even than that, after young Bru and his displays of testicular depravity, can we have another volunteer for setting up a new chapter of the banter thread?

This one is getting more stuffed than FES' fourth multi-currency Geneva account.

[BigGee]

Does Bath have a bigger salary base than Glasgow ? I thought Scottish teams were  relatively well funded ?

The funding of AP clubs remains a bit unclear. In theory they have a salary cap which is in the process of increasing, to even out the playing field, but some clubs can't generate the income to even achieve that. They also have this dispensation to make marquee signings, which is one, soon to be two players who don't have to be funded from that salary cap. There is also a lot of conjecture that the richer clubs, of which Bath is certainly one, kind of ignore it when it suits them anyway. Sam Burgess did not come cheap and they have had to fund it, not the RFU.

The Scottish clubs are relatively well funded to how they were historically, but they don't compete with the top English clubs who are generating impressive revenue streams of their own, plus lucrative TV deals and RFU funding. Scottish teams probably live at the level of LI, Exeter, Newcastle, but are a long way behind the big boys of Leicester, Northampton, Bath and Sarries. They tend to scope up the better players from the other English clubs already. It is quite like football really in that there really is a league within a league. It is by no means a level playing field.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

Glasgow have alot of players out of contract at the end of the season, a number of whom are key players and who will no doubt attract offers from elsewhere.

We were always going to lose at least a couple of players who we don't want to see go. With Niko, we have no idea wither the club wanted to keep him or are ready to go in another direction. They may well have offered him a great deal, but Bath have offered more or he might just want a change.

Looking at who else is out of contract, theres not many I would want to lose out this lot. I do think one of DTH, Seymour or Maitland will go.

Adam Ashe
Henry Pyrgos
Jon Welsh
Euan Murray
Sean Maitland
Tommy Seymour
Peter Murchie
DTH van der Merwe

Others are out of contract are.

Jerry
Dougie Hall
Al Kellock
Tom Ryder
James Eddie
Murray McConnell

Think Eddie will get a 7s deal and be made available during the WC. Others might be let go, although again the WC clouds things a little.

[Nematode]

I don't really know what to think about Niko leaving - at his best he could get you that try BP, get that winning try, unlock a game. At his worst, he'd give the ball away needlessly and take way too many risks. I wouldn't be overly surprised if we saw Brendan McKibbin in particular or a SQ overseas 9 being signed.

I wouldn't say there's deadwood in the squad, however, I think Glasgow need to refresh their squad. With Castres performing so poorly, a return of Richie Gray might be a possibility, and would replace maybe one of Kellock/Ryder. A high quality 7 and 9 is in desperate need also.

[BigGee]

Glasgow have alot of players out of contract at the end of the season, a number of whom are key players and who will no doubt attract offers from elsewhere.

We were always going to lose at least a couple of players who we don't want to see go.  With Niko, we have no idea wither the club wanted to keep him or are ready to go in another direction.  They may well have offered him a great deal, but Bath have offered more or he might just want a change.  

Looking at who else is out of contract, theres not many I would want to lose out this lot. I do think one of DTH, Seymour or Maitland will go.

Adam Ashe
Henry Pyrgos
Jon Welsh
Euan Murray
Sean Maitland
Tommy Seymour
Peter Murchie
DTH van der Merwe

Others are out of contract are.  

Jerry
Dougie Hall
Al Kellock
Tom Ryder
James Eddie
Murray McConnell

Think Eddie will get a 7s deal and be made available during the WC.  Others might be let go, although again the WC clouds things a little.

Adam Ashe - surely at this stage in his career will stay put. Not really a big enough name to attract a big wage elsewhere, but should be due a pay rise.

Henry Pyrgos - Surely if Niko is off, we will be putting our eggs in Henry's basket

Jon Welsh - He is a player we really do need to hang on to and as a good TH will have other interest, especially if he gets a bit of international exposure this spring. He is a better player than Cross and Low, both of whom found homes in the AP, albeit at weaker clubs. Will need to get out the chequebook here.

Euan Murray - Playing well enough to go on for at least another year if he is motivated. I expect he will retire from international rugby after the world cup and may be useful to spend another year to get Fargeson up to speed. Won't be on top dollar now, but not cheap either.

DTH, Maitland & Seymour - can we afford three top drawer wingers, all of whom would think they deserve to start and probably have a case to say that they should. Maitland probably was not that cheap in the first place but Seymour was and will be looking at a good rise. DTH may be the one who sees this as his last big chance for a pension top up and he may be the one to go. Ideally we should try to keep all three but that may be difficult.

Peter Murchie - a very solid and dependable back up for Hoggy, who has shown himself capable of getting capped in his own right. He won't have a massive market value though and I am sure we could afford to keep him if he wants to stay. The only thing that may push him off is the desire to get out of Hoggy's shadow. Now that he has resigned he has been more or less confirmed in the number 2 role. If he is ambitious he may wish to prove himself somewhere else. He is a good player and you would not want to deny him that chance should he want that. Glad to keep him though if he decides to stay.

Jerry - Ordinarily you would have thought he would be off. He will also be off playing in the world cup for Fiji and so has no great value as cover at that time of year. Unless he retires internationally I would think he will be off.

Dougie Hall - Probably time to retire, hard to see him getting much game time this year, once Bryce is fit will be 4th in the pecking order. The world cup may through him a lifeline for another year though.

Al Kellock - I think the world cup will give him one more year in club colours. He is not going to be battered by his efforts this year as he is not going to get so much game time,so should remain fresh. We are likely to lose Gray, Naka and Swinson at world cup time and will be short in this department

Tom Ryder - a player of much promise a few years back who seems to have become permanently injured. Unless he can turn it around this year you would have thought he will go, but again the WC may end up being a factor.

James Eddie - a joint 7's and WC cover contract seems to be a very sensible compromise here. A warrior through a through, no one will mind him staying around.

Murray McConnell - We still really have not really seen him play have we, so hard to judge. Ali Price looked half decent in his cameo, so you would have though he would be next in the pecking order just now. A big risk to commit to a player who seems so injury prone this early in his career.


We are likely to take a hammering in terms of call ups during the world cup and you would have thought that they will be planning for that. It does seem that we are going to need a bit of new blood as well as hanging on to the ones we have got!

[demosthenes]

Glasgow have alot of players out of contract at the end of the season, a number of whom are key players and who will no doubt attract offers from elsewhere.

We were always going to lose at least a couple of players who we don't want to see go.  With Niko, we have no idea wither the club wanted to keep him or are ready to go in another direction.  They may well have offered him a great deal, but Bath have offered more or he might just want a change.  

Looking at who else is out of contract, theres not many I would want to lose out this lot. I do think one of DTH, Seymour or Maitland will go.

Adam Ashe
Henry Pyrgos
Jon Welsh
Euan Murray
Sean Maitland
Tommy Seymour
Peter Murchie
DTH van der Merwe

Others are out of contract are.  

Jerry
Dougie Hall
Al Kellock
Tom Ryder
James Eddie
Murray McConnell

Think Eddie will get a 7s deal and be made available during the WC.  Others might be let go, although again the WC clouds things a little.

Assuming Nico is away, I would expect to see Pyrgos and McConnell re-signed. I expect Kellock to stay, but not as a player. It would not surprise me to see DTH released, or offered a one year deal. The others who might get one years would be Murray, Ryder, Hall, and Jerry. Hopefully the others will be secured on long term deals.

[BigGee]

I don't really know what to think about Niko leaving - at his best he could get you that try BP, get that winning try, unlock a game. At his worst, he'd give the ball away needlessly and take way too many risks. I wouldn't be overly surprised if we saw Brendan McKibbin in particular or a SQ overseas 9 being signed.

I wouldn't say there's deadwood in the squad, however, I think Glasgow need to refresh their squad. With Castres performing so poorly, a return of Richie Gray might be a possibility, and would replace maybe one of Kellock/Ryder. A high quality 7 and 9 is in desperate need also.  

I think if Castres go down then Ritchie might come back, but that is a big if and he will be contracted if they do not. The likely scenario is that he will be there for another year.

[Nematode]

Could Johnnie Beattie return to the fold? Haven't seen him playing in France much.

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