Possible Lions 2017

On current form, with choice of coaches and who will be captain? lets speculate...........

Corbisiero, Hartley, Cole (if fit)
Launchbury, AWJ
Robshaw (c), Faletau, Warburton
Care, Sexton
Burgess, J Davies
North, Brown, Wade

Cronin, Healy, Lee, Itoje, O'Mahony, Marmion, Farrell, Hogg

Coach: Rob Baxter? (don't want to see any of the Home Nations coaches do it, and certainly none of the Kiwi ones)

Doubtless several players I've missed out though.

In the mix - Jonny Grey; Josh Strauss.

I'll just give a completely non-exhaustive and utterly subjective list of young players who are impressing me at the moment:

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs/England, Hooker)
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons/England, Tighthead Prop)
Jonny Gray (Glasgow/Scotland, Lock)
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Ireland, Lock)
Robin Copeland (Munster/Ireland, Flanker/No 8)
Kieran Marmion (Connacht/Ireland, Scrum Half)
Rhys Patchell (Cardiff/Wales, Stand Off)
George Ford (Bath/England, Stand Off)
Mark Bennett (Glasgow/Scotland, Centre)
Scott Williams (Scarlets/Wales, Centre)
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow/Scotland, Wing)
Hallam Amos (NG Dragons/Wales, Wing/Full Back)


I know this is going to look like a bit of Glasgow one-eyed-ness, but I also think a solid case could be made for Gregor Townsend as Attack Coach. A bit of GregorBall is what we need to blow the All Blacks away.

IanBru wrote:I'll just give a completely non-exhaustive and utterly subjective list of young players who are impressing me at the moment:

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs/England, Hooker)
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons/England, Tighthead Prop)
Jonny Gray (Glasgow/Scotland, Lock)
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Ireland, Lock)
Robin Copeland (Munster/Ireland, Flanker/No 8)
Kieran Marmion (Connacht/Ireland, Scrum Half)
Rhys Patchell (Cardiff/Wales, Stand Off)
George Ford (Bath/England, Stand Off)
Mark Bennett (Glasgow/Scotland, Centre)
Scott Williams (Scarlets/Wales, Centre)
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow/Scotland, Wing)
Hallam Amos (NG Dragons/Wales, Wing/Full Back)


I know this is going to look like a bit of Glasgow one-eyed-ness, but I also think a solid case could be made for Gregor Townsend as Attack Coach. A bit of GregorBall is what we need to blow the All Blacks away.

Keep an eye on Stuart Olding at Ulster. He is coming back from a season off, but i think he has the most potential of anyone we have.

IanBru wrote:I'll just give a completely non-exhaustive and utterly subjective list of young players who are impressing me at the moment:

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs/England, Hooker)
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons/England, Tighthead Prop)
Jonny Gray (Glasgow/Scotland, Lock)
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Ireland, Lock)
Robin Copeland (Munster/Ireland, Flanker/No 8)
Kieran Marmion (Connacht/Ireland, Scrum Half)
Rhys Patchell (Cardiff/Wales, Stand Off)
George Ford (Bath/England, Stand Off)
Mark Bennett (Glasgow/Scotland, Centre)
Scott Williams (Scarlets/Wales, Centre)
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow/Scotland, Wing)
Hallam Amos (NG Dragons/Wales, Wing/Full Back)


I know this is going to look like a bit of Glasgow one-eyed-ness, but I also think a solid case could be made for Gregor Townsend as Attack Coach. A bit of GregorBall is what we need to blow the All Blacks away.

No mention of Dan Biggar and Rhys Webb in that list, for me Dan Biggar will be the next Lion no. 10.

Biggar doesn't offer any more than farrell, and Farrell is younger, more expereinced and proven at the top level whcih Biggar isn't. Both similar players, however one is an established international the other is still to nail down his place.

Surely Phil Vickery will be on the tour...

wrfc1980 wrote:Biggar doesn't offer any more than farrell, and Farrell is younger, more expereinced and proven at the top level whcih Biggar isn't. Both similar players, however one is an established international the other is still to nail down his place.

You have not seen Biggar play then obviously, this is the same guy who controlled the game when England last came to Cardiff, I have seen Farrell totally lose his concentration when things do not go his way, something Biggar never does, ask anybody who watches the Pro12 each week what they think of him, I would go as far to say that Biggar is the best British or Irish no.10 in Europe at the moment.

wrfc1980 wrote:Biggar doesn't offer any more than farrell, and Farrell is younger, more expereinced and proven at the top level whcih Biggar isn't. Both similar players, however one is an established international the other is still to nail down his place.

How do you quantify experience and proven at the top level?

Farrell has 25 caps age 23 and 6 Lions games No silverware with England

Biggar has 25 caps no Lions games but silverware with Wales.

Is the 6 Lions games what you are basing your summary on and is that why in your book he is more experienced and proven at top level?

I'm going to say something utterly crazy.

You see, the Lions go on tour, and on this tour you take a squad, and in this squad you will find several players, some in the same position.

Like I say, it's crazy, but is it possible that both Biggar and Farrell might go on tour?

Like I say, it's crazy, but is it possible that both Biggar and Farrell might go on tour?

Alternatively....neither could go...

LordDowlais wrote:

wrfc1980 wrote:Biggar doesn't offer any more than farrell, and Farrell is younger, more expereinced and proven at the top level whcih Biggar isn't. Both similar players, however one is an established international the other is still to nail down his place.

You have not seen Biggar play then obviously, this is the same guy who controlled the game when England last came to Cardiff, I have seen Farrell totally lose his concentration when things do not go his way, something Biggar never does, ask anybody who watches the Pro12 each week what they think of him, I would go as far to say that Biggar is the best British or Irish no.10 in Europe at the moment.

Wasn't Biggar part of the Welsh side humiliated by Japan? Also he's been 10 when Wales drew with Fiji and lost to Samoa.

Farrell has helped England beat Australia and NZ - something you cannot say that Biggar has done for Wales.

Plus Farrell avenged the Cardiff defeat with a good performance vs Wales this year.

Farrell has his issues but he's proven his worth above Biggar.

Anybody who watches Biggar on a regular basis, knows this kid is the real deal, I tell you what, lets do a poll on the club rugby section, let's get everybody'd veiws on it.

Beshocked, I nominate you to do this simple task.

What poll exactly do you want to make?

Do you want to ask the question: is Biggar the real deal? Yes or No?

I agree that Dan Biggar is real.

He definitely exists.

beshocked wrote:What poll exactly do you want to make?

Do you want to ask the question: is Biggar the real deal? Yes or No?

no, ask the question, as it stands, who should be in the next Lions squad Farrel or Biggar and why ? Something along those lines.

My predicted XV (with alternate in brackets and squad member where applicable). There's real science to this....

1.Healy (Corbisiero) + McGrath
2.Hartley (Webber) + Owens
3.Cole (Moore) + Sinckler
4.J Gray (Launchbury) + Iain Henderson
5.Lawes (R Gray)
6.Lydiate (POM)
7.O'Brien (Warburton) + Robshaw
8.B Vunipola (Faletau)
9.Care (Murray) + Youngs
10.Sexton (Ford) + Biggar
11.North (Zebo)
12.Roberts (Scott) + Olding
13.JD2 (Tuilagi) + Burrell
14.Cuthbert (Wade)
15.Halfpenny (Hogg) + Watson

funnyExiledScot wrote:My predicted XV (with alternate in brackets and squad member where applicable). There's real science to this....

1.Healy (Corbisiero) + McGrath
2.Hartley (Webber) + Owens
3.Cole (Moore) + Sinckler
4.J Gray (Launchbury) + Iain Henderson
5.Lawes (R Gray)
6.Lydiate (POM)
7.O'Brien (Warburton) + Robshaw
8.B Vunipola (Faletau)
9.Care (Murray) + Youngs
10.Sexton (Ford) + Biggar
11.North (Zebo)
12.Roberts (Scott) + Olding
13.JD2 (Tuilagi) + Burrell
14.Cuthbert (Wade)
15.Halfpenny (Hogg) + Watson

I take it the one's in brackets are the replacements and the + are the extra's going on tour.

For me:-
Hibbard would go instead of Webber
Alyn Wyn Jones before all you have at no. 4
Heaslip before Vunipola
Biggar before Ford
Keith Earls before Tuilagi
Liam Williams before Watson

LordDowlais wrote:



Keith Earls before Tuilagi

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:



Keith Earls before Tuilagi

Whats so funny ?

Who will be the young lions bolter that has to carry the mascot, such as earls and Halfpenny have. They will have to be about 20-21 in 2017 so a hard one to pick...are there any more Faletaus, tuilagis, vunipolas, Burgesses in the pipeline ! Maybe Maro Itoje...he seems to be one hell of a prospect.

Hey Dowlais...we'll just remove all the England players...should keep you happy.

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:



Keith Earls before Tuilagi

Whats so funny ?

What on earth has Keith Earls done to be selected for any team ahead of Manu Tuilagi? Other than not be English perhaps

LordDowlais wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:My predicted XV (with alternate in brackets and squad member where applicable). There's real science to this....

1.Healy (Corbisiero) + McGrath
2.Hartley (Webber) + Owens
3.Cole (Moore) + Sinckler
4.J Gray (Launchbury) + Iain Henderson
5.Lawes (R Gray)
6.Lydiate (POM)
7.O'Brien (Warburton) + Robshaw
8.B Vunipola (Faletau)
9.Care (Murray) + Youngs
10.Sexton (Ford) + Biggar
11.North (Zebo)
12.Roberts (Scott) + Olding
13.JD2 (Tuilagi) + Burrell
14.Cuthbert (Wade)
15.Halfpenny (Hogg) + Watson

I take it the one's in brackets are the replacements and the + are the extra's going on tour.

For me:-
Hibbard would go instead of Webber
Alyn Wyn Jones before all you have at no. 4
Heaslip before Vunipola
Biggar before Ford
Keith Earls before Tuilagi
Liam Williams before Watson

My query was whether Hibbard and Alan Wyn Jones would still be performing at the highest level come three years time. Wyn Jones in particular will be under some serious competition from a number of high quality younger locks. Were I picking now he'd be in there in a heartbeat, but this is a crystal ball effort looking three years down the line. I know there are precedents in Shaw, POC etc.

Don't think Heaslip will tour. I think the Lions will go for a more powerful ball carrying option at 8.

Biggar before Ford and Williams before Watson is certainly correct as of today, but I see massive potential in those two English players.

Earls before Tuilagi is a joke.

LordDowlais wrote:Liam Williams before Watson

I like your thinking there, but it would be nice to play with fifteen men for at least a sizeable part of the test matches.

I love it,people still throwing Dan Cole ,Chris Robsaw and Tuilagui name in the mix
All pretty crap.

Then a lot missing out the name of the world best ever full back Mike Brown or was it Ben Foden?
Lets not forget the worlds best centres Burrell and TurnerHall

I cant see to many English players tour thou they will still be tired from winning the 2015 world cup

God its 3 years away yet and we arguing already

[quote="beshocked"][quote="LordDowlais"][quote="wrfc1980"]

Farrell has helped England beat Australia and NZ - something you cannot say that Biggar has done for Wales.

Neither did Barry John, Phil Bennett or Jiffy but wouldn't say Farrell was better than any of them.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

beshocked wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

wrfc1980 wrote:

Farrell has helped England beat Australia and NZ - something you cannot say that Biggar has done for Wales.

Neither did Barry John, Phil Bennett or Jiffy but wouldn't say Farrell was better than any of them.

do some research pal

Prehaps the Vinopla boys should come?

It's too far out for this topic, but the usual bickering is still there.


There are some good players coming through in all four countries. Let's hope they continue on an upward curve and stay injury free. To win two tours on the bounce would be a massive boost for the Lions. 

Perhaps the only way to avoid any bickering is to pick the Lions side exclusively from project players and others who have recently qualified on residency grounds after playing most of their rugby elsewhere. That way, none of us will feel invested in the team rather than just some of us.

I wonder if we could actually field a XV with that limitation?

Longbottom
Strauss
Another prop
Paterson
Another lock
Two flankers
Nathan Hughes etc etc

GeordieFalcon wrote:Hey Dowlais...we'll just remove all the England players...should keep you happy.

Why are all you English people bringing nationalities into this ? Stop being so insular. There are better players that are playing that are not English, and if you look again, I have not taken out ALL the English players, perhaps I could be like you and say why not put more English players in instead of any other nationality, FFS, he chose 3rd choice English players over the current Ospreys and Wales captain, come on lets be realistic here.

LordDowlais wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Hey Dowlais...we'll just remove all the England players...should keep you happy.

Why are all you English people bringing nationalities into this ? Stop being so insular. There are better players that are playing that are not English, and if you look again, I have not taken out ALL the English players, perhaps I could be like you and say why not put more English players in instead of any other nationality, FFS, he chose 3rd choice English players over the current Ospreys and Wales captain, come on lets be realistic here.

The rest of the players you swapped in were all there or thereabouts, and I wouldn't be particularly worked up with them being chosen.

As soon as you mentioned Earls over Tuilagi, you lost all credibility

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Hey Dowlais...we'll just remove all the England players...should keep you happy.

Why are all you English people bringing nationalities into this ? Stop being so insular. There are better players that are playing that are not English, and if you look again, I have not taken out ALL the English players, perhaps I could be like you and say why not put more English players in instead of any other nationality, FFS, he chose 3rd choice English players over the current Ospreys and Wales captain, come on lets be realistic here.

The rest of the players you swapped in were all there or thereabouts, and I wouldn't be particularly worked up with them being chosen.

As soon as you mentioned Earls over Tuilagi, you lost all credibility

I picked Earls for his creativity, we cannot keep having bish bash boshers in our midfield, if Tuilagi learns how to pass outside him, and does not keep looking for contact then he his just a lesser Jamie Roberts

IanBru wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Liam Williams before Watson

I like your thinking there, but it would be nice to play with fifteen men for at least a sizeable part of the test matches.

Good point.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

beshocked wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

wrfc1980 wrote:

Farrell has helped England beat Australia and NZ - something you cannot say that Biggar has done for Wales.

Neither did Barry John, Phil Bennett or Jiffy but wouldn't say Farrell was better than any of them.

Sorry when did I say Farrell is better than any of them? In time he might well be but I guess it depends what you want from a 10.

Farrell is 23 - you would expect he will have a long career so we don't know what he will achieve in that time.

Hopefully Burgess is a real success, would love to see him flourish and be a force against New Zealand down there. A lot will depend on how quickly he takes to the game and whether he can get game time ahead of Eastmond at Bath and Twelvetrees for England (assuming Lancaster doesn't try Ford/Farrell 10/12 combination.) You can't buy in someone like that and leave them on the sidelines. Sam Hill at Exeter a lot of potential in that position.

Apologies for lack of consideration of other nations, don't see enough of the Pro 12 but Matt Scott impressed a few times in the 6N's.

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Hey Dowlais...we'll just remove all the England players...should keep you happy.

Why are all you English people bringing nationalities into this ? Stop being so insular. There are better players that are playing that are not English, and if you look again, I have not taken out ALL the English players, perhaps I could be like you and say why not put more English players in instead of any other nationality, FFS, he chose 3rd choice English players over the current Ospreys and Wales captain, come on lets be realistic here.

The rest of the players you swapped in were all there or thereabouts, and I wouldn't be particularly worked up with them being chosen.

As soon as you mentioned Earls over Tuilagi, you lost all credibility

I picked Earls for his creativity, we cannot keep having bish bash boshers in our midfield, if Tuilagi learns how to pass outside him, and does not keep looking for contact then he his just a lesser Jamie Roberts

Funny I always thought that Jamie Roberts was just a tall Barritt with a big chin

lostinwales wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Hey Dowlais...we'll just remove all the England players...should keep you happy.

Why are all you English people bringing nationalities into this ? Stop being so insular. There are better players that are playing that are not English, and if you look again, I have not taken out ALL the English players, perhaps I could be like you and say why not put more English players in instead of any other nationality, FFS, he chose 3rd choice English players over the current Ospreys and Wales captain, come on lets be realistic here.

The rest of the players you swapped in were all there or thereabouts, and I wouldn't be particularly worked up with them being chosen.

As soon as you mentioned Earls over Tuilagi, you lost all credibility

I picked Earls for his creativity, we cannot keep having bish bash boshers in our midfield, if Tuilagi learns how to pass outside him, and does not keep looking for contact then he his just a lesser Jamie Roberts

Funny I always thought that Jamie Roberts was just a tall Barritt with a big chin

Yes very entertaining, look, we all know, if we want a basher, then JR is our best bet, so why go with another less tallented one as well ?

Threads like this remind me why I'll be happy when the Lions are disbanded.

Tuilagi less talented than Roberts? Not sure I agree.

As an attacking threat - Manu is excellent, the problem is that he rarely passes the ball and effectively stops wingers getting into the game.

When Manu gets it right like vs NZ (that win) he was sublime - showing proper awareness.

beshocked wrote:Tuilagi less talented than Roberts? Not sure I agree.

As an attacking threat - Manu is excellent, the problem is that he rarely passes the ball and effectively stops wingers getting into the game.

When Manu gets it right like vs NZ (that win) he was sublime - showing proper awareness.

I agree, like I said earlier, but until he does learn how to do this, then he is just a lesses JR.

Less Welsh than Jamie Roberts, certainly.

As a rugby player, probably not

BamBam wrote:Less Welsh than Jamie Roberts, certainly.

Again, what has nationality got to do with it ?

Rugby Fan wrote:Perhaps the only way to avoid any bickering is to pick the Lions side exclusively from project players and others who have recently qualified on residency grounds after playing most of their rugby elsewhere. That way, none of us will feel invested in the team rather than just some of us.

I wonder if we could actually field a XV with that limitation?

Longbottom
Strauss
Another prop
Paterson
Another lock
Two flankers
Nathan Hughes etc etc

This is a great idea, and should guarantee some "Scottish" representation.

1.Dell
2.R Strauss
3.Nel
4.Paterson
5.Atkins
6.J Strauss
7.Cowan
8.Du Preez

There's your pack!

Think Roberts effectiveness has been less and less in recent times. I'd agree I wouldn't want to see a midfield of Tuilagi and Roberts but used effectively Tuilagi is step above. The problem being there's no real top class at 12. I'm sure come the Lions someone will have put their hand up.

Corbisiero can't go, he's scheduled to be injured.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Think Roberts effectiveness has been less and less in recent times. I'd agree I wouldn't want to see a midfield of Tuilagi and Roberts but used effectively Tuilagi is step above. The problem being there's no real top class at 12. I'm sure come the Lions someone will have put their hand up.

Matt Scott and Stuart Olding could be two potentially strong candidates by 2017. Problem with Scott is that like Corbisiero, he'll most likely be injured in 2017.