Lions 2017 - the decider

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 9:03 am

After months if not years, of debate, arguments and plenty bickering the time has come - The Lions are in New Zealand and the tour has begun!

I think it is fair to say that if you're not a fan of the concept of the Lions then this isn't the thread to bring it up - we have had plenty of that over several months and the debate has been done to death. This thread will hopefully be a positive place where those excited about the tour (like me!) can talk about everything that's going on. That's until Jamie Roberts gets a callup of course... Run

3 June - Provincial union team (Toll Stadium, Whangarei)

7 June - Blues (Eden Park, Auckland)

10 June - Crusaders (AMI Stadium, Christchurch)

13 June - Highlanders (Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin)

17 June - Maori (International Stadium, Rotorua)

20 June - Chiefs (Waikato Stadium, Hamilton)

24 June - New Zealand (First Test, Eden Park, Auckland)

27 June - Hurricanes (Westpac Stadium, Wellington)

1 July - New Zealand (Second Test, Westpac Stadium, Wellington)

8 July - New Zealand (Third Test, Eden Park, Auckland)

Lions 2017 - the decider Lions20131024x768_2947826

Lions 2017 - the decider Lions20131024x768_2947826

by GunsGermsV2 Wed 31 May 2017, 9:11 am

What time is the match on Saturday at? Doesnt give them much time to prep for this game at all.

Looking forward to see how former Blackrock schoolboy Oliver Jager plays.

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 9:13 am

I'll add in all the kick off times when I get the chance - the game on Saturday is 8:35am UK time as far as I know.

I suspect the majority of the team will be those that have been training with the Lions from week 1 so should be the most prepared - something like:

1 Marler
2 Best
3 Sinckler
4 Henderson
5 AWJ
6 Moriarty
7 Warbuton
8 Faletau

9 Webb
10 Biggar
11 Watson
12 Teo
13 JJ
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

But I could be completely wrong!

by tigertattie Wed 31 May 2017, 9:15 am

rousing Welsh hymn sung on arrival in response to a traditional New Zealand welcome of a man waving a stick and sticking his tongue out.

Some of the non welsh boys looked a bit sheepish singing it but they all seemed to give it a shot. According to the BBC the whole squad have song sheets of various hymns from the four nations. I think when they say hymns they mean rugby anthems as we've had the Fields of Athenry. Surely it will be Caledonia from Scotland and probably Jerusalem for England?

by **George Carlin** Wed 31 May 2017, 9:16 am

A noble thread with good intentions RDW. I give it 10 posts before we realise that our feet are soggy and we have sunk into the WUM Swamp of Madness. But a guy can dream.

I will try to do a match thread for each game:
https://www.606v2.com/t65656-new-zealand-barbarians-v-british-irish-lions-3-june

but I agree that this thread should be regarded as a safe pub with good beer, moderate pricing and uncomfortably attractive bar staff between each game.

Everyone knows that Warren Gatland's son is playing for the Provincial Barbarians against the Lions in the first match, right? Brilliant.

by eirebilly Wed 31 May 2017, 9:16 am

That's actually not a bad side RDW.

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 9:19 am

eirebilly wrote:That's actually not a bad side RDW.

it is a pretty decent side with core units that know each other.

Saying that, given that all the opposition will be the level below Super Rugby we could put any team out and should still be aiming for a 40-50 point win to kick the tour off in style. I just hope there are no injuries.

by tigertattie Wed 31 May 2017, 9:20 am

eirebilly wrote:That's actually not a bad side RDW.

there's no easy way to say it, but the lions really should be putting 70 points on this team of youngsters on Sat!

I can see it being used (as rightly so) as a warm up match to give boys short of match fitness a run around. Those coming back form injury and those who haven't played in any end of season play off games or finals.

by IanBru Wed 31 May 2017, 9:21 am

Good thread RDW - let's do this!

I must admit, I have been a bit skeptical about the Lions concept in recent tours. This time around, I worry that with all the media work, the 'player cams' and interviews, and the time taken out for advertising, this tour is falling into the trap of the England 2015 RWC campaign - simply not enough time left for actual rugby!

All that being said, I'm ready to actually commit myself emotionally to this tour! 'Hurray', you might sarcastically say, but the step of 'caring' about a Lions tour is important - it opens you up to the joy of camaraderie with fellow fans and cheering for players you wouldn't normally support, but also to the terrible blows of being prison shamed by the All Blacks. We'll take the rough with the smooth, I guess.

So let's try to put the months of slagging behind us.

I am IanBru, Lions Supporter.

by nickj Wed 31 May 2017, 9:32 am

Nice one RDW. This is the first Lions thread I've actually bothered to read (and post to).

Bring it on...

I was thinking we'd see soemthing very similar to your starting 15 too, here's mine:

1 Marler
2 Best
3 Cole
4 Henderson / AWJ
5 Lawes
6 Moriarty
7 Warbuton
8 Faletau

9 Webb
10 Biggar
11 Watson
12 Teo
13 JJ
14 Seymour / North
15 Hogg

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 9:34 am

Think haven't been great on here lately and I wouldn't be surprised if people have been hesitant about admitting that they are excited about the Lions tour - you can let it all hang out here!

LIONS LIONS LIONS

etc...

by EST Wed 31 May 2017, 9:37 am

Great thread RDW.

I've pretty much avoided Lions chat since the squad announcement. However, inevitably, i'm finding myself getting excited for the first game, and then we are pretty much on the treadmill for the next month and a bit....it really is a completely mental touring schedule, when you see it written down like that.

Anyway, that's a good team, but I would be hesitant to say we are going to gub the BaaBaas - a good win, yes, but maybe not 70pts.

by Scottrf Wed 31 May 2017, 9:56 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'll add in all the kick off times when I get the chance - the game on Saturday is 8:35am UK time as far as I know.

I think they all are.

by **BigGee** Wed 31 May 2017, 10:01 am

A few players definitely need to get up to speed and quickly in this game. Warbs has not played in ages and AWJ looked way off the pace in his only game recently as well. If selection is going to be fair and the test team not already decided, then everyone may only get one real starting chance to show themselves.

It will be interesting if it does work that way and I hope it does. Historically some bolters on the tour, like Tom Smith back in South Africa have come from pretty much no-where and cemented down a test spot ahead of more fancied opponents.

by TightHEAD Wed 31 May 2017, 10:17 am

Well at least we now know why so many Welshman were on tour.

Whistle

'The Lions Camp Pride Welsh Choir' are available for weddings, funerals and other special occasions.

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 11:05 am

Ken Owens was certainly belting it out! I'm looking forward to seeing wee Greig leading the Scotland song - it is something the Scotland team do when they meet up for international camps.

by mikey_dragon Wed 31 May 2017, 12:41 pm

by marty2086 Wed 31 May 2017, 12:45 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:What time is the match on Saturday at? Doesnt give them much time to prep for this game at all.

All games kick off at 8.35am UK and Ire time

by mikey_dragon Wed 31 May 2017, 1:02 pm

marty2086 wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:What time is the match on Saturday at? Doesnt give them much time to prep for this game at all.

All games kick off at 8.35am UK and Ire time

No but if the team is anything like the ones above then the Lions will go in with combinations previously established. I imagine they won't get up to speed until the closing stages of the match though. I'm not worried about this as I think the scoreline will be comfortably in favour of the Lions.

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 1:05 pm

I'm glad all the KOs are at a reasonable time - enough time to get up, have some breakfast and find a dodgy internet link for the weekend games, and enough time for me to get into work for the midweek games!

by TightHEAD Wed 31 May 2017, 1:12 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm glad all the KOs are at a reasonable time - enough time to get up, have some breakfast and find a dodgy internet link for the weekend games, and enough time for me to get into work for the midweek games!

Where are those links these days as I can never find them?

by aucklandlaurie Wed 31 May 2017, 1:16 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm glad all the KOs are at a reasonable time - enough time to get up, have some breakfast and find a dodgy internet link for the weekend games, and enough time for me to get into work for the midweek games!

While your making your porridge you can watch the Chiefs v Tahs.

by TightHEAD Wed 31 May 2017, 1:17 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm glad all the KOs are at a reasonable time - enough time to get up, have some breakfast and find a dodgy internet link for the weekend games, and enough time for me to get into work for the midweek games!

While your making your porridge you can watch the Chiefs v Tahs.

It's too much like league to be taken seriously!

by aucklandlaurie Wed 31 May 2017, 1:21 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm glad all the KOs are at a reasonable time - enough time to get up, have some breakfast and find a dodgy internet link for the weekend games, and enough time for me to get into work for the midweek games!

While your making your porridge you can watch the Chiefs v Tahs.

It's too much like league to be taken seriously!

Talking of New South wales and Rugby League, the blues have just dicked the Maroons in State of Origin.

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 1:25 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm glad all the KOs are at a reasonable time - enough time to get up, have some breakfast and find a dodgy internet link for the weekend games, and enough time for me to get into work for the midweek games!

Where are those links these days as I can never find them?

Probably best you ask in each match thread as often not all of them work.

A reminder to everyone that you can't post the link publicly on here!

by funnyExiledScot Wed 31 May 2017, 1:34 pm

I love the Lions and have already made it clear to Mrs fES and ToddlerfES that between 8:35am and the final whistle on each Saturday until the tour ends they should consider themselves widow and orphan respectively. Interruptions will be dealt with severely (unless to hand me a bacon sandwich).

Midweek games will be recorded and watched after dinner each Wednesday - no interruptions will be tolerated (unless to hand me a cold beer). I have a crate of Innis & Gunn ordered and a new TV on the way.

COME ON YOU LIONS!!

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 1:40 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I love the Lions and have already made it clear to Mrs fES and ToddlerfES that between 8:35am and the final whistle on each Saturday until the tour ends they should consider themselves widow and orphan respectively. Interruptions will be dealt with severely (unless to hand me a bacon sandwich).

Midweek games will be recorded and watched after dinner each Wednesday - no interruptions will be tolerated (unless to hand me a cold beer). I have a crate of Innis & Gunn ordered and a new TV on the way.

COME ON YOU LIONS!!

How confident are you that this will happen / you will still be married by the end of the tour?

by funnyExiledScot Wed 31 May 2017, 1:42 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I love the Lions and have already made it clear to Mrs fES and ToddlerfES that between 8:35am and the final whistle on each Saturday until the tour ends they should consider themselves widow and orphan respectively. Interruptions will be dealt with severely (unless to hand me a bacon sandwich).

Midweek games will be recorded and watched after dinner each Wednesday - no interruptions will be tolerated (unless to hand me a cold beer). I have a crate of Innis & Gunn ordered and a new TV on the way.

COME ON YOU LIONS!!

How confident are you that this will happen / you will still be married by the end of the tour?

The same confidence that I have in Jason Harries being the Pro12 top scorer next season.....

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 1:58 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I love the Lions and have already made it clear to Mrs fES and ToddlerfES that between 8:35am and the final whistle on each Saturday until the tour ends they should consider themselves widow and orphan respectively. Interruptions will be dealt with severely (unless to hand me a bacon sandwich).

Midweek games will be recorded and watched after dinner each Wednesday - no interruptions will be tolerated (unless to hand me a cold beer). I have a crate of Innis & Gunn ordered and a new TV on the way.

COME ON YOU LIONS!!

How confident are you that this will happen / you will still be married by the end of the tour?

The same confidence that I have in Jason Harries being the Pro12 top scorer next season.....

Edinburgh in-jokes - now that's the kind of banter that's been missing from Lions threads!

by funnyExiledScot Wed 31 May 2017, 2:07 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I love the Lions and have already made it clear to Mrs fES and ToddlerfES that between 8:35am and the final whistle on each Saturday until the tour ends they should consider themselves widow and orphan respectively. Interruptions will be dealt with severely (unless to hand me a bacon sandwich).

Midweek games will be recorded and watched after dinner each Wednesday - no interruptions will be tolerated (unless to hand me a cold beer). I have a crate of Innis & Gunn ordered and a new TV on the way.

COME ON YOU LIONS!!

How confident are you that this will happen / you will still be married by the end of the tour?

The same confidence that I have in Jason Harries being the Pro12 top scorer next season.....

Edinburgh in-jokes - now that's the kind of banter that's been missing from Lions threads!

I think you're being hasty in ruling our Mr Harries as a potential Lion. He's Welsh remember.....

by **George Carlin** Wed 31 May 2017, 2:08 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm glad all the KOs are at a reasonable time - enough time to get up, have some breakfast and find a dodgy internet link for the weekend games, and enough time for me to get into work for the midweek games!

Where are those links these days as I can never find them?

PM the group at the time Tighty and we will reply with all sorts of borderline illegal shenanigans.

by GunsGermsV2 Wed 31 May 2017, 2:32 pm

This is my favorite Jamie Heaslip article yet. He reckons all the Leinster Lions will be test starters but the Munster contingent will struggle.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/munster-stars-may-struggle-for-test-action-fears-jamie-heaslip-451284.html

Outside the Leinster contingent Id imagine Murray and Best are the most likely test starters from Ireland.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 31 May 2017, 3:38 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:This is my favorite Jamie Heaslip article yet. He reckons all the Leinster Lions will be test starters but the Munster contingent will struggle.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/munster-stars-may-struggle-for-test-action-fears-jamie-heaslip-451284.html

Outside the Leinster contingent Id imagine Murray and Best are the most likely test starters from Ireland.

I think the headline should replace "fears" with "laughs".

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 5:08 pm

So in order to prevent repetition of chat across several threads I'm proposing to leave this thread for general tour related news and banter, and each specific match thread will be used to discuss team selection, live action during the game then post game chat.

GC has made the first thread here for those that haven't see it

https://www.606v2.com/t65656p50-new-zealand-barbarians-v-british-irish-lions-3-june

by eirebilly Wed 31 May 2017, 5:21 pm

It would be very nice to see one thread (this has gone ok so far but is dipping) where posters can simply discuss the Lions as a squad instead of using this as platform for bitter club/provincial bias wumming.

Been on a tour before and the fans for all walks of life mingled perfectly and enjoyed the Lions, it was a fantastic trip to be on.

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 5:24 pm

That's my intention for this thread eirebilly and GC and I will be keeping a close eye on things to remove posts before they start arguments where appropriate - I just hope everyone takes this on board so that if they want to indulge in some anti-Lions anti-Gatland gripes then there are other threads to do so.

by eirebilly Wed 31 May 2017, 5:25 pm

The team is announced at 8pm tonight is it not?

by chris_501 Wed 31 May 2017, 6:31 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'll add in all the kick off times when I get the chance - the game on Saturday is 8:35am UK time as far as I know.

I suspect the majority of the team will be those that have been training with the Lions from week 1 so should be the most prepared - something like:

1 Marler
2 Best
3 Sinckler
4 Henderson
5 AWJ
6 Moriarty
7 Warbuton
8 Faletau

9 Webb
10 Biggar
11 Watson
12 Teo
13 JJ
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

But I could be completely wrong!

Good team, of those I think about 7 can have a realistic hope to be in that shirt come the first test, the others are looking be that bolter into the test XV.

by wayne Wed 31 May 2017, 7:09 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'll add in all the kick off times when I get the chance - the game on Saturday is 8:35am UK time as far as I know.

I suspect the majority of the team will be those that have been training with the Lions from week 1 so should be the most prepared - something like:

1 Marler
2 Best
3 Sinckler
4 Henderson
5 AWJ
6 Moriarty
7 Warbuton
8 Faletau

9 Webb
10 Biggar
11 Watson
12 Teo
13 JJ
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

But I could be completely wrong!

RDW, do you realise apart from Greg Laidlaw in for Rhys Webb, that is the exact team selected by a Eastern Fail (Western Mail) reporter, I reckon you are Andy Bowell (Andy Howell) and I claim my £5 prize.

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 7:12 pm

wayne wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I'll add in all the kick off times when I get the chance - the game on Saturday is 8:35am UK time as far as I know.

I suspect the majority of the team will be those that have been training with the Lions from week 1 so should be the most prepared - something like:

1 Marler
2 Best
3 Sinckler
4 Henderson
5 AWJ
6 Moriarty
7 Warbuton
8 Faletau

9 Webb
10 Biggar
11 Watson
12 Teo
13 JJ
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

But I could be completely wrong!

RDW, do you realise apart from Greg Laidlaw in for Rhys Webb, that is the exact team selected by a Eastern Fail (Western Mail) reporter, I reckon you are Andy Bowell (Andy Howell) and I claim my £5 prize.

Dammit, my cover is blown!

by eirebilly Wed 31 May 2017, 7:25 pm

This is the team I would go for.

01 : Mako Vunipola
02 : Rory Best
03 : Tadhg Furlong
04 : Maro Itoje
05 : Alun Wyn Jones
06 : Peter O'Mahoney
07 : Sam Warburton
08 : Toby Faletau
09 : Rhys Webb
10 : Owen Farrell
11 : George North
12 : Robbie Henshaw
13 : Jonathan Joseph
14 : Jack Nowell
15 : Stuart Hogg

Substitutes:

16 : Jamie George
17 : Jack McGrath
18 : Dan Cole
19 : Iain Henderson
20 : Sean O'Brien
21 : Greig Laidlaw
22 : Johnny Sexton
23 : Tommy Seymour

by wayne Wed 31 May 2017, 7:29 pm

eirebilly wrote:This is the team I would go for.

01 : Mako Vunipola
02 : Rory Best
03 : Tadhg Furlong
04 : Maro Itoje
05 : Alun Wyn Jones
06 : Peter O'Mahoney
07 : Sam Warburton
08 : Toby Faletau
09 : Rhys Webb
10 : Owen Farrell
11 : George North
12 : Robbie Henshaw
13 : Jonathan Joseph
14 : Jack Nowell
15 : Stuart Hogg

Substitutes:

16 : Jamie George
17 : Jack McGrath
18 : Dan Cole
19 : Iain Henderson
20 : Sean O'Brien
21 : Greig Laidlaw
22 : Johnny Sexton
23 : Tommy Seymour

What, for this weekend Billy or for the first test?

by eirebilly Wed 31 May 2017, 7:32 pm

This weekend. Probably unfair on POM and Liam Williams who played last weekend so maybe drop SOB in Seymour...

by eirebilly Wed 31 May 2017, 8:08 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'll add in all the kick off times when I get the chance - the game on Saturday is 8:35am UK time as far as I know.

I suspect the majority of the team will be those that have been training with the Lions from week 1 so should be the most prepared - something like:

1 Marler
2 Best
3 Sinckler
4 Henderson
5 AWJ
6 Moriarty
7 Warbuton
8 Faletau

9 Webb Laidlaw
10 Biggar Sexton
11 Watson
12 Teo
13 JJ
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

But I could be completely wrong!

Jaysus, that was very close to the team announced...

by **RDW** Wed 31 May 2017, 8:18 pm

Just call me Warren! Very Happy

by kingelderfield Wed 31 May 2017, 8:19 pm

Quite a pacey side, not the biggest, but I like the balance.

Big game for Sinckler.

by **George Carlin** Thu 01 Jun 2017, 9:38 am

Nehe Milner-Skudder starts for the Canes again this week.
Was kind of hoping he would be out for longer, selfishly speaking.

by **RDW** Thu 01 Jun 2017, 9:40 am

Let face it it's not as if NZ are short of quality wing options.

Neither are we though - remember we've got King Tommy! king

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 01 Jun 2017, 9:48 am

George Carlin wrote:Nehe Milner-Skudder starts for the Canes again this week.
Was kind of hoping he would be out for longer, selfishly speaking.

Ryan Crotty & Matt Todd are back for the Crusaders after concussion layoffs too. Israel Dagg relegated to the bench due to the form of Havili, Bridge & Taminavalu

Dane Coles still out concussed, which is a big loss - he's the best hooker in the world by a fair margin

by **RDW** Thu 01 Jun 2017, 10:08 am

Interesting article on the BBC - Gatland saying that he's keen to not make the same mistake as Graham Henrey did on the 2001 tour by telling the players who were considered to be in line for test spots. I was quite young at the time but don't remember that tour being overly controversial (Matt Dawson newspaper article aside) - certainly not compared to 2005.

it is positive to hear him saying everyone is going to get a fair chance - whether that happens or not is a different question!

BBC wrote:British and Irish Lions head coach Warren Gatland says he will not repeat Graham Henry's 2001 mistake by splitting the squad early in the tour.

Gatland says Henry indicated to his players at the outset of the trip of Australia who would be selected for the Test matches.

He says that meant his compatriot "lost half the team on day one".

"The players knew straight away what was the Test side and who was making up the numbers," said the New Zealander.

Radio 5 live special: How NOT to win a series (2005)
All Blacks more complete than in 2005 - Hansen
'O'Driscoll thought spear tackle was going to kill him'
Gatland, who on Wednesday named his side to face the Provincial Barbarians in the tour opener on Saturday, says each of his 41-man squad is in contention to face the All Blacks.

"Keeping harmony in the squad is paramount," he said. "It's about giving everyone an opportunity.

"It's important these guys feel like they are putting themselves in the shop window and have a chance to prove themselves, and with a little bit of luck are in contention for the Tests.

British and Irish Lions greeted by haka in New Zealand airport
Sexton and Farrell in fly-half fight

Owen Farrell and Johnny Sexton appear to be in competition for the fly-half spot after Gatland reiterated he sees the Englishman as a "world-class 10", rather than a centre.

Irishman Sexton starts on Saturday, with Farrell on the bench.

"The players are pretty aware about the competition in that position," Gatland said. "Johnny gets a start on Saturday, and the other two [Farrell and Dan Biggar] will get a start in the next two games."

Gatland's son Bryn will start for the Provincial Barbarians at fly-half.

"I spoke to Bryn last night and he's enjoying the week," Gatland Sr said. "We'll catch up tomorrow, and he'll expect to have to make a few tackles on the weekend.

"We haven't spoken too much about the game but he's excited about the opportunity."

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