Lions 2017
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Lions 2017
Looking at the recent internationals and to beat allblack you need pace and vision so this is my team so far! 1.m.vunipola 2.hartley 3.furlong 4.itoje 5.kruis 6.faletau 7.stander 8. B.vunipola 9. Youngs 10.ford 11.watson 12.farrell 13.joseph 14.l.williams 15. Hogg 16.best 17.mcgrath 18.lee 19 .henderson 20.o'brien 21.murray 22.henshaw 23.north
abarnbrook- Posts : 4
Join date : 2012-01-26
Re: Lions 2017
NO SEXTON?
Being an England fan i like the fact that you picked Ford for the ten shirt. But in all honesty i think SEXTON would be a better option.
Being an England fan i like the fact that you picked Ford for the ten shirt. But in all honesty i think SEXTON would be a better option.
majesticimperialman- Posts : 6170
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: Lions 2017
Ford and Farrell understanding is the reason I picked ford if Farrell not at 12 then sexton would be at 10
abarnbrook- Posts : 4
Join date : 2012-01-26
Re: Lions 2017
abarnbrook - Why did you pick a specialist number 8 at 6? It makes no sense. Great player Faletau is, he's not a better 6 than a lot of those who ply their trade on the blindside. Robshaw is a shoe-in there right now, with Stander a more than capable back up. Like your back three though.
Mine would be as follows:
1. McGrath
2. Hartley
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Gray (J)
6. Robshaw
7. Murphy
8. Vunipola
9. Youngs
10. Sexton
11. Williams
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg
16. Best
17. M Vunipola
18. Cole/Lee
19. Henderson
20. Stander
21. Murray
22. Biggar
23. Daly
The one thing that I am worried about is the selectors picking anyone based on past glories or coming back from injury (I am aware Billy is currently injured along with Murphy). Gatland has shown that he's got the gent's veg to drop someone with the class of BOD for who he assumes is better at the time, but I am worried that he will pick out of form Wales players over a more deserving English, Irish or Scottish player. SCW did that on the 2005 tour with Jonny Wilkinson amongst others and we all know how that turned out... I also don't see the point in playing specialist out of position just to shoe-horn them into the team. Sure, they might do a job, but as well as a specialist? Nope.
Mine would be as follows:
1. McGrath
2. Hartley
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Gray (J)
6. Robshaw
7. Murphy
8. Vunipola
9. Youngs
10. Sexton
11. Williams
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg
16. Best
17. M Vunipola
18. Cole/Lee
19. Henderson
20. Stander
21. Murray
22. Biggar
23. Daly
The one thing that I am worried about is the selectors picking anyone based on past glories or coming back from injury (I am aware Billy is currently injured along with Murphy). Gatland has shown that he's got the gent's veg to drop someone with the class of BOD for who he assumes is better at the time, but I am worried that he will pick out of form Wales players over a more deserving English, Irish or Scottish player. SCW did that on the 2005 tour with Jonny Wilkinson amongst others and we all know how that turned out... I also don't see the point in playing specialist out of position just to shoe-horn them into the team. Sure, they might do a job, but as well as a specialist? Nope.
Last edited by Mr Bounce on Sun 04 Dec 2016, 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Mr Bounce- Posts : 3513
Join date : 2011-03-18
Location : East of Florida, West of Felixstowe
Re: Lions 2017
Picked a back row based on pace and power you can't beat all blacks without that robshaw good all round player but don't have that yard off pace.
abarnbrook- Posts : 4
Join date : 2012-01-26
Re: Lions 2017
abarnbrook wrote:Picked a back row based on pace and power you can't beat all blacks without that robshaw good all round player but don't have that yard off pace.
Anticipation, work rate. He's played the AB's as much as anyone in the NH too. He has skills that make up for lack of pace. I don't think he's been embarrassed either
Robshaw may or may not go and I can understand why he might not, especially if the Lions management want an explosive carrier at 6, but he is a phenomenal player and he wouldn't let anyone down if he did.
lostinwales- lostinwales
- Posts : 13368
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)
Re: Lions 2017
abarnbrook wrote:Picked a back row based on pace and power you can't beat all blacks without that robshaw good all round player but don't have that yard off pace.
Not very balanced though and relatively weak at the breakdown
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: Lions 2017
Mr Bounce wrote:7. Murphy
Excuse my ignorance, who is Murphy?
rapidsnowman- Posts : 459
Join date : 2011-09-13
Re: Lions 2017
1. McGrath
2. Hartley
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Stander
7. O'Brien
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Williams
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg
2. Hartley
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Stander
7. O'Brien
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Williams
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg
petethepete- Posts : 53
Join date : 2011-07-05
Re: Lions 2017
That guy from RoboCop, before he was RoboCop obviously.rapidsnowman wrote:Mr Bounce wrote:7. Murphy
Excuse my ignorance, who is Murphy?
IanBru- Posts : 2909
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 36
Location : Newcastle
Re: Lions 2017
Well done for kicking off the Lions chat for the next six months. The time is right - let's do this.
1. McGrath
2. Hartley (c)
3. Nel
4. Itoje
5. Gray, J
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Vunipola, V
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Seymour
12. Farrell
13. Ringrose
14. Watson
15. Hogg
16. George
17. Vunipola, M
18. Cole
19. Jones, AW
20. Hardie
21. Care
22. Bennett
23. Williams, L
1. McGrath
2. Hartley (c)
3. Nel
4. Itoje
5. Gray, J
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Vunipola, V
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Seymour
12. Farrell
13. Ringrose
14. Watson
15. Hogg
16. George
17. Vunipola, M
18. Cole
19. Jones, AW
20. Hardie
21. Care
22. Bennett
23. Williams, L
IanBru- Posts : 2909
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 36
Location : Newcastle
Re: Lions 2017
1. McGrath
2. Hartley (C)
3. Furlong
4. Gray
5. Launchbury
6. Itoje
7. O'Brien
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Williams
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg
16. Vunipola
17. Best
18. Cole
19. Henderson
20. Haskell
21. Youngs
22. Ford
23. Henshaw
2. Hartley (C)
3. Furlong
4. Gray
5. Launchbury
6. Itoje
7. O'Brien
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Williams
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg
16. Vunipola
17. Best
18. Cole
19. Henderson
20. Haskell
21. Youngs
22. Ford
23. Henshaw
EST- Posts : 1905
Join date : 2012-05-25
Re: Lions 2017
Tipuric is easily one of the finest players atm and would walk into any team in Europe at 7
True Raven- Posts : 1011
Join date : 2015-12-27
Re: Lions 2017
Wales should have the least players for the lions because they can't adapt there style Ireland Scotland England scoring tries and look good in attack
abarnbrook- Posts : 4
Join date : 2012-01-26
Re: Lions 2017
Tipuric is a great player, and a distinctly average openside.
IanBru- Posts : 2909
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 36
Location : Newcastle
Re: Lions 2017
Warburton is an interesting choice, but he does have the experience and Gats like him. Would need to improve his form to be a starter.IanBru wrote:Well done for kicking off the Lions chat for the next six months. The time is right - let's do this.
1. McGrath
2. Hartley (c)
3. Nel
4. Itoje
5. Gray, J
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Vunipola, V
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Seymour
12. Farrell
13. Ringrose
14. Watson
15. Hogg
16. George
17. Vunipola, M
18. Cole
19. Jones, AW
20. Hardie
21. Care
22. Bennett
23. Williams, L
Ringrose over Joseph? Hmmm.
Cyril- Posts : 7162
Join date : 2012-11-16
Re: Lions 2017
McGrath
Hartley
Nel
Itoje
Gray
Robshaw
Stander
Vunipola
Murray
Sexton
Williams
Henshaw
Joseph
Watson
Hogg
Vunipola
George
Furlong
Henderson
Tipuric
Youngs
Ford
Daly/Ringrose
I think Stander could well do the Haskell job of smashing everything, so have picked him in that role (plus, excellent carrier). For the bench I have basically gone for big impact players, guys who could come on and change the game.
Hartley
Nel
Itoje
Gray
Robshaw
Stander
Vunipola
Murray
Sexton
Williams
Henshaw
Joseph
Watson
Hogg
Vunipola
George
Furlong
Henderson
Tipuric
Youngs
Ford
Daly/Ringrose
I think Stander could well do the Haskell job of smashing everything, so have picked him in that role (plus, excellent carrier). For the bench I have basically gone for big impact players, guys who could come on and change the game.
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
Join date : 2011-02-11
Age : 36
Re: Lions 2017
Mr Bounce wrote:abarnbrook - Why did you pick a specialist number 8 at 6? It makes no sense. Great player Faletau is, he's not a better 6 than a lot of those who ply their trade on the blindside. Robshaw is a shoe-in there right now, with Stander a more than capable back up. Like your back three though.
Mine would be as follows:
1. McGrath
2. Hartley
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Gray (J)
6. Robshaw
7. Murphy
8. Vunipola
9. Youngs
10. Sexton
11. Williams
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg
16. Best
17. M Vunipola
18. Cole/Lee
19. Henderson
20. Stander
21. Murray
22. Biggar
23. Daly
The one thing that I am worried about is the selectors picking anyone based on past glories or coming back from injury (I am aware Billy is currently injured along with Murphy). Gatland has shown that he's got the gent's veg to drop someone with the class of BOD for who he assumes is better at the time, but I am worried that he will pick out of form Wales players over a more deserving English, Irish or Scottish player. SCW did that on the 2005 tour with Jonny Wilkinson amongst others and we all know how that turned out... I also don't see the point in playing specialist out of position just to shoe-horn them into the team. Sure, they might do a job, but as well as a specialist? Nope.
In which case you have fly half playing at 12.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31381
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: Lions 2017
There's currently only a couple of players I'd say are nailed on to start if fit. very strong competition everywhere. Confident that Itoje will start somewhere, Murray, Watson and Joseph. Outside of that I think it's very much open.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31381
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: Lions 2017
Itoje hasn't been playing much rugby recently, certainly not at test match level. Hence despite his incredible ability I wouldn't be picking him at the moment. Same for Nel at tight head.
1. McGrath .
2. Best (C)
3. Furlong
4. Kruis
5. Gray, J
6. Robshaw
7. Warburton
8. Moriarty
9. Murray
10. Ford
11. Seymour
12. Jones (HUW)
13. Joseph
14. May
15. Hogg
16. Hartley
17. Cole
18. Mako V
19. Henderson
20. Watson
21. Youngs
22. Farrell
23. Halfpenny
Not considered due to not playing a lot of rugby but who I'd expect to be playing : Itoje, Nel, Sexton, Billy V and a whole host of others I can't be bothered going into.
Onto Tipuric, great player yes, but he is noticable. Warburton does just as much work, has a huge workrate but he doesn't get noticed as much due to not having an electric blue scrum cap.
1. McGrath .
2. Best (C)
3. Furlong
4. Kruis
5. Gray, J
6. Robshaw
7. Warburton
8. Moriarty
9. Murray
10. Ford
11. Seymour
12. Jones (HUW)
13. Joseph
14. May
15. Hogg
16. Hartley
17. Cole
18. Mako V
19. Henderson
20. Watson
21. Youngs
22. Farrell
23. Halfpenny
Not considered due to not playing a lot of rugby but who I'd expect to be playing : Itoje, Nel, Sexton, Billy V and a whole host of others I can't be bothered going into.
Onto Tipuric, great player yes, but he is noticable. Warburton does just as much work, has a huge workrate but he doesn't get noticed as much due to not having an electric blue scrum cap.
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
Join date : 2011-03-04
Age : 39
Location : The North, The REAL North (Beyond the Wall)
Re: Lions 2017
Billy is potentially out until after the 6N. Not convinced he will be fully fit before the Lions tour; he'd need to play very well in the AP/ECC knockout rounds to secure a place.
Itoje is already back and playing and has the 6N to show that he's ready.
Itoje is already back and playing and has the 6N to show that he's ready.
Poorfour- Posts : 6428
Join date : 2011-10-01
Re: Lions 2017
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Itoje hasn't been playing much rugby recently, certainly not at test match level. Hence despite his incredible ability I wouldn't be picking him at the moment. Same for Nel at tight head.
...
Not considered due to not playing a lot of rugby but who I'd expect to be playing : Itoje, Nel, Sexton, Billy V and a whole host of others I can't be bothered going into.
Onto Tipuric, great player yes, but he is noticable. Warburton does just as much work, has a huge workrate but he doesn't get noticed as much due to not having an electric blue scrum cap.
Wouldn't say Warburton has been playing much either recently
lostinwales- lostinwales
- Posts : 13368
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)
Re: Lions 2017
He was tremendous against Japan and Argentina. He did not play against South Africa though.
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
Join date : 2011-03-04
Age : 39
Location : The North, The REAL North (Beyond the Wall)
Re: Lions 2017
Based on what we know right now:
15 Hogg
14 Seymour (Watson when fit)
13 Joseph
12 Farrell (hopefully Henshaw if fit)
11 L Williams
10 Ford
9 Youngs
8 Faletau (possibly Billy when fit)
7 Van Der Flier
6 Robshaw
5 J Gray
4 Kruis
3 Furlong
2 Best
1 McGrath
Vunipola, Hartley, Nel when fit, Itoje, Stander, Murray, Sexton, Bennett
15 Hogg
14 Seymour (Watson when fit)
13 Joseph
12 Farrell (hopefully Henshaw if fit)
11 L Williams
10 Ford
9 Youngs
8 Faletau (possibly Billy when fit)
7 Van Der Flier
6 Robshaw
5 J Gray
4 Kruis
3 Furlong
2 Best
1 McGrath
Vunipola, Hartley, Nel when fit, Itoje, Stander, Murray, Sexton, Bennett
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: Lions 2017
True Raven wrote:Tipuric is easily one of the finest players atm and would walk into any team in Europe at 7
Except England, Scotland and Ireland and several club sides?
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: Lions 2017
ChequeredJersey wrote:True Raven wrote:Tipuric is easily one of the finest players atm and would walk into any team in Europe at 7
Except England, Scotland and Ireland and several club sides?
To be honest he might if we wanted to play a light weight hooperesque super rapid open side. But we don't
lostinwales- lostinwales
- Posts : 13368
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)
Re: Lions 2017
IanBru wrote:Well done for kicking off the Lions chat for the next six months. The time is right - let's do this.
1. McGrath
2. Hartley (c)
3. Nel Lee
4. Itoje
5. Gray, J
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Vunipola, V
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Seymour
12. Farrell
13. Ringrose
14. Watson
15. Hogg
16. George
17. Vunipola, M
18. Cole
19. Jones, AW
20. Hardie
21. Care
22. Bennett
23. Williams, L
Also to tour: Best, Healy, Lee, Kruis, Henderson, Haskell, Faletau, Robshaw, Laidlaw, Biggar, Huw Jones, Joseph, Daly, North, Goode
Last edited by IanBru on Mon 05 Dec 2016, 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
IanBru- Posts : 2909
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 36
Location : Newcastle
Re: Lions 2017
As it stands right now there are not many players who have a hand on a matchday shirt.
Murray and Sexton clearly the best around. Joseph I really rate. Hogg. thats it. I would say Jonny Gray as well but others would disagree.
Itoje needs a decent 6N but for sure he is good. Nel in the same boat as is Billy V. they need to prove themselves in the 6N
IMO all other places are up for grabs after seeing performances in the 6N
But I bet Gatland goes with his tried and trusted Welshmen.
Murray and Sexton clearly the best around. Joseph I really rate. Hogg. thats it. I would say Jonny Gray as well but others would disagree.
Itoje needs a decent 6N but for sure he is good. Nel in the same boat as is Billy V. they need to prove themselves in the 6N
IMO all other places are up for grabs after seeing performances in the 6N
But I bet Gatland goes with his tried and trusted Welshmen.
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Lions 2017
Billy will miss the 6N, but I'd bet he makes it on to the plane
BamBam- Posts : 17226
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 35
Re: Lions 2017
He shouldn't be then. How can he prove himself? Need to be utter outstanding in any club games he plays
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Lions 2017
It comes back to how much credit people have in the bank. Vunipola would have been on the plane and in the starting lineup. It's going to be tough for him now but with Saracens expected form he may get chance to play in some top club games and be relatively fresh.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31381
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: Lions 2017
TJ wrote:He shouldn't be then. How can he prove himself? Need to be utter outstanding in any club games he plays
I think he has to prove he's fit. I don't think he has to prove his ability.
There is no guarantee he will be fit enough though, and I'd rather he missed the summer to be fit for the future if there was any doubt.
lostinwales- lostinwales
- Posts : 13368
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)
Re: Lions 2017
Will Billy V be fit enough for selection? Rumours are he will not make the 6 nations?
majesticimperialman- Posts : 6170
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: Lions 2017
majesticimperialman wrote:Will Billy V be fit enough for selection? Rumours are he will not make the 6 nations?
He won't make the 6 nations. He's out 'for at least 3 months'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38125158
Will be hard for him to maintain fitness in that time also.
lostinwales- lostinwales
- Posts : 13368
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)
Re: Lions 2017
Its not as if there is any shortage of top notch back row players to get on the plane. Its probably the area where we have most strength
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Lions 2017
TJ wrote:Its not as if there is any shortage of top notch back row players to get on the plane. Its probably the area where we have most strength
Yep. But none of them can do what he can (even if many of them can do stuff he can't)
lostinwales- lostinwales
- Posts : 13368
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)
Re: Lions 2017
Here it comes, the official squad:
Test XV
1.McGrath 2.Hartley 3.Cole 4.Itoje 5.J Gray 6.Stander 7.Haskell 8.Vunipola 9.Murray 10.Sexton 11.L Williams 12.Henshaw 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Hogg
Bench
16.Furlong 17.George 18.M Vunipola 19.Launchbury 20.Faletau 21.Youngs 22.Farrell 23.North
Midweek
1.Marler 2.Best 3.WP Nel 4.AWJ 5.Kruis 6.Henderson 7.Warburton(c) 8.Hughes 9.Webb 10.Biggar 11.May 12.S Williams 13.JD2 14.Seymour 15.Brown
On stand-bye
1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Lee 4.Lawes 5.R Gray 6.Robshaw 7.O'Brien 8.Heaslip 9.Davies 10.Ford 11.Zebo 12.Dunbar 13.Daly 14.Maitland 15.Halfpenny
Done.
Test XV
1.McGrath 2.Hartley 3.Cole 4.Itoje 5.J Gray 6.Stander 7.Haskell 8.Vunipola 9.Murray 10.Sexton 11.L Williams 12.Henshaw 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Hogg
Bench
16.Furlong 17.George 18.M Vunipola 19.Launchbury 20.Faletau 21.Youngs 22.Farrell 23.North
Midweek
1.Marler 2.Best 3.WP Nel 4.AWJ 5.Kruis 6.Henderson 7.Warburton(c) 8.Hughes 9.Webb 10.Biggar 11.May 12.S Williams 13.JD2 14.Seymour 15.Brown
On stand-bye
1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Lee 4.Lawes 5.R Gray 6.Robshaw 7.O'Brien 8.Heaslip 9.Davies 10.Ford 11.Zebo 12.Dunbar 13.Daly 14.Maitland 15.Halfpenny
Done.
funnyExiledScot- Posts : 17072
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 43
Location : Edinburgh
Re: Lions 2017
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:He was tremendous against Japan and Argentina. He did not play against South Africa though.
Which Tips was MOTM in and was probably Wales best player against Aussie (although not that hard). There is no way Warburton is a better 7 than Tipuric.
The problem with Tips is because hes got good 'footballing skills' people think hes not great over the ball or not a great defensive player or even strong enough to hold up an attacker but the reality is he has all those abilities (not too mention an intelligent player) and he is by far the best attacking forward in Europe. He's outshone Warburton at regional level for years now but the captaincy means Warburton keeps his place.
True Raven- Posts : 1011
Join date : 2015-12-27
Re: Lions 2017
True Raven wrote:RuggerRadge2611 wrote:He was tremendous against Japan and Argentina. He did not play against South Africa though.
Which Tips was MOTM in and was probably Wales best player against Aussie (although not that hard). There is no way Warburton is a better 7 than Tipuric.
The problem with Tips is because hes got good 'footballing skills' people think hes not great over the ball or not a great defensive player or even strong enough to hold up an attacker but the reality is he has all those abilities (not too mention an intelligent player) and he is by far the best attacking forward in Europe. He's outshone Warburton at regional level for years now but the captaincy means Warburton keeps his place.
see my point about being noticed more. I think Warburton is a better player than Tipuric. I haven't always had this belief but I do now. The amount of rubbish that Warburton cleans up at the back of rucks is crazy. He makes his yardage around the fringes normally and doesn't show up as much in the backline as often as Tipuric.
I think Tipuric is a great rugby player but I'm not convinced he is a better 7 than Warburton. I think Tips skill set isn't maximised in the backrow. I dunno what the answer is and TBH I wouldn't stick him in the backline either despite probably having better pace, vision and distribution skills than Roberts.
It's a conundrum, because for me a fully fit and wales backrow would consist of some kind of combination of Warburton, Moriarty and Faletau with Tipuric providing the impact from the bench.
It's a nice selection headache to have but I do feel Tipuric's skills are wasted in the pack. It's probably too late to change positions too so I reiterate I dunno what the answer is.
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
Join date : 2011-03-04
Age : 39
Location : The North, The REAL North (Beyond the Wall)
Re: Lions 2017
Interesting that Jones rates Lawes as one of the players of the tournament, (assumption that he means England player) i.e. above Launchbury and Kruis, but no one has mentioned him on here.
WELL-PAST-IT- Posts : 3744
Join date : 2011-06-01
Re: Lions 2017
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Interesting that Jones rates Lawes as one of the players of the tournament, (assumption that he means England player) i.e. above Launchbury and Kruis, but no one has mentioned him on here.
He made my "stand-bye" XV.
Lock is incredibly difficult and massively competitive. In truth I'd probably pick him over AWJ but I'm scared of the "Welsh back-lash"....
funnyExiledScot- Posts : 17072
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 43
Location : Edinburgh
Re: Lions 2017
The thing is especially with the lions its not about picking the best players... its about choosing the best team to best attempt to win a test series/be competitive.
If we picked the "best" 15 players I think we would lose heavily. Like in 1997, choices such as Townsend at 10 and Jenkins at 15 to offer greater fluidity worked.
It could, could justify a selection of say Ford at 10 to run the backline as long as their is another goal kicker in the team (and lets be honest I think I'd prefer Gethin to kick the points over Ford.... the worst English kicker since Jon Webb).
Guys like Tommy Seymour, Ross Moriarty and a Ford-Farrell 10-12 combo may not be the best wing, flank and 10-12 but they may be the best suit to playing NZ. I would say though that I think with Farrell at 12 you need serious wheels at 13 mind.
I'd be tempted to look at Maro as a blindside and a lock combo of JC and Kruis.
Perhaps
McGrath, Hartley, Cole, Gray, Kruis, Itoje, Moriarty, Faletau, Murray, Ford, North, Farrell, Williams, Seymour, Watson.
Can't believe I'd seriously consider Ford but then again you have to acknowledge part of England's success has been down to his running of the backline. I mean he can't be trusted with the tee and that's a big worry if there was an injury to Farrell, Sexton, Biggar etc.
Then again do you scrap a Ford-Farrell combo and go for say a Biggar, Henderson option? Playing Jenks at 15 was a gamble and lets be honest it almost became the worst decision in lions history...but it worked. It doesn't mean you always have to look outside of the norm but I do think its far more complicated than simply who is the best at the moment.
I'd leave out guys like Stander and Nel even though they may qualify both on merit and on a legal sense.. a snob, a purist I know whilst sure the coach is foreign, sbut I do think things like the Lions should be a little above those who are the most astute bargain shoppers in the game.
If we picked the "best" 15 players I think we would lose heavily. Like in 1997, choices such as Townsend at 10 and Jenkins at 15 to offer greater fluidity worked.
It could, could justify a selection of say Ford at 10 to run the backline as long as their is another goal kicker in the team (and lets be honest I think I'd prefer Gethin to kick the points over Ford.... the worst English kicker since Jon Webb).
Guys like Tommy Seymour, Ross Moriarty and a Ford-Farrell 10-12 combo may not be the best wing, flank and 10-12 but they may be the best suit to playing NZ. I would say though that I think with Farrell at 12 you need serious wheels at 13 mind.
I'd be tempted to look at Maro as a blindside and a lock combo of JC and Kruis.
Perhaps
McGrath, Hartley, Cole, Gray, Kruis, Itoje, Moriarty, Faletau, Murray, Ford, North, Farrell, Williams, Seymour, Watson.
Can't believe I'd seriously consider Ford but then again you have to acknowledge part of England's success has been down to his running of the backline. I mean he can't be trusted with the tee and that's a big worry if there was an injury to Farrell, Sexton, Biggar etc.
Then again do you scrap a Ford-Farrell combo and go for say a Biggar, Henderson option? Playing Jenks at 15 was a gamble and lets be honest it almost became the worst decision in lions history...but it worked. It doesn't mean you always have to look outside of the norm but I do think its far more complicated than simply who is the best at the moment.
I'd leave out guys like Stander and Nel even though they may qualify both on merit and on a legal sense.. a snob, a purist I know whilst sure the coach is foreign, sbut I do think things like the Lions should be a little above those who are the most astute bargain shoppers in the game.
fa0019- Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-07-25
Re: Lions 2017
Picking an intitial 37 man squad.
1.Mako, McGrath, Marler
2.George, Best, Hartley
3.Nel, Cole, Furlong
4.Itoje, J Gray, Henderson
5.Kruis, AWJ
6.Stander, Robshaw, Haskell
7.Tipuric, Warburton
8.Vunipola, Faletau
9.Murray, Youngs, Webb
10.Sexton, Farrell, Ford
11.Seymour, North
12.Henshaw, Davies
13.Joseph, Bennett
14.Watson, Williams
15.Hogg, Brown
Centres are the biggest struggle but wings didn't jump out at me either so I picked more full backs for cover. The pack and half backs are strongest area by far - should at least play into Gatlands game plans.
1.M Vunipola 2.George 3.Nel 4.Itoje 5.Kruis 6.Stander 7.Tipuric 8.B Vunipola
9.Murray 10.Sexton 11.North 12.Henshaw 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Hogg
16.Best 17.McGrath 18.Cole 19.J Gray 20.Faletau 21.Youngs 22.Farrell 23.Bennett
Centres really are thin on the ground. Roberts and Davies will likely both travel in Gatlands squad. If Manu Tuilagi stays fit for the 6 Nations then I'd expect him to get on the plane.
1.Mako, McGrath, Marler
2.George, Best, Hartley
3.Nel, Cole, Furlong
4.Itoje, J Gray, Henderson
5.Kruis, AWJ
6.Stander, Robshaw, Haskell
7.Tipuric, Warburton
8.Vunipola, Faletau
9.Murray, Youngs, Webb
10.Sexton, Farrell, Ford
11.Seymour, North
12.Henshaw, Davies
13.Joseph, Bennett
14.Watson, Williams
15.Hogg, Brown
Centres are the biggest struggle but wings didn't jump out at me either so I picked more full backs for cover. The pack and half backs are strongest area by far - should at least play into Gatlands game plans.
1.M Vunipola 2.George 3.Nel 4.Itoje 5.Kruis 6.Stander 7.Tipuric 8.B Vunipola
9.Murray 10.Sexton 11.North 12.Henshaw 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Hogg
16.Best 17.McGrath 18.Cole 19.J Gray 20.Faletau 21.Youngs 22.Farrell 23.Bennett
Centres really are thin on the ground. Roberts and Davies will likely both travel in Gatlands squad. If Manu Tuilagi stays fit for the 6 Nations then I'd expect him to get on the plane.
king_carlos- Posts : 12766
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork
Re: Lions 2017
Didn't want to comment about my 2 players, but I couldn't help laughing when all the talk on here that both AWJ and Justin Tipuric are overrated, when in that very Welsh paper The Sunday Times, had the 2 biased Welshmen Lawrence Dallaglio and Stuart Barnes BOTH picking AWJ in their Team if the Lions were playing tomorrow, and Dallaglio also picking Tips at openside, they had Devon Toner and Maro Itoje as AWJs partner.
wayne- Posts : 3183
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Wales
Re: Lions 2017
Centres - have a look at the scottish lads. Dunbar, Jones, Bennett. Need a good 6N tho. I'd have Joseph at 13 as one of the few players that right now I would say in the team.
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Lions 2017
TJ wrote:Centres - have a look at the scottish lads. Dunbar, Jones, Bennett. Need a good 6N tho. I'd have Joseph at 13 as one of the few players that right now I would say in the team.
Henshaw and Joseph would by my starting pair by a distance at current.
After that there's a queue of Roberts, Williams, JD2, Dunbar, Jones, Bennett, Manu and Daly who all have their strengths and weaknesses.
Dunbar is an excellent defensive leader though which will always be valuable for a Lions tour. Also something that Roberts adds.
king_carlos- Posts : 12766
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork
Re: Lions 2017
Dunbar and Joseph might be a very good combo. The rapier and the bludgeon.
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Lions 2017
Can't believe anyone is looking at North on current form. He is living on past glories at 24, massively behind where he was a couple of years ago. May is a far better alternative at the moment.
WELL-PAST-IT- Posts : 3744
Join date : 2011-06-01
Re: Lions 2017
I also suspect that EJ may be thinking of Daly at 15 for the 6N, if he does and it works we could have another Hogg without the defensive frailties.
WELL-PAST-IT- Posts : 3744
Join date : 2011-06-01
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