Welterweight landscape: Who makes the current top 10?

by .aveyard2.0 Mon 29 Sep 2014, 5:37 pm

Who makes up the current top 10 in the sports current glamour division? (on a purely monetary basis)

Here is mine based on my personal opinion of their ability to beat one another if they were to fight next:

1) Floyd- despite what his detractors may say, still on another level
2) Brook- names missing from his record, but an undefeated legit champ with bags of ability. Questionable how he fares against the divisions best, but so far he is the one with the title and im sure those questions get answered soon enough.
3) Manny- for me huge question marks over how long he has left. Not impressed with the recent calibre of opposition but still a title holder, and wonderful fighter on his day.
4) Maidana- in my opinion he nicks the best of the rest crown given his power and style
5) Marquez- legend of the sport, and potentially still has enough to beat anybody in the division, except floyd. What he has left exactly remains to be seen, though its extremely unlikely due to neither holding a strap, id love to see how he fares with maidana
6) Amir Khan- one fight at ww granted, but his boxing ability imo is top level, has the tools to beat anybody at the weight if he fights the right fight. Chin is suspect, but arguably the biggest heart in the division.
7) Bradley- I think he is just short of top level, solid all rounder but with out excelling in any area. That said all of the above will have to be on their a game to beat him
8) Alexander- limited fighter, often boring but as with bradley on his night a tricky proposition
9) Porter - not sure how he troubles fighters now hes had his first loss, couldn't adapt to brook. Could still progress to the top, perhaps with a different cornermanm the next yer or so will give a true indication of where he sits
10) Thurman- One to watch, but would have him start as an outsider against all of the above. Needs to step up his level of opposition for me

That is my opinion on the way things stand, I'd like to hear yours guys!

by **hampo17** Mon 29 Sep 2014, 5:42 pm

Thurman and Manny are both above Brook and Khan in my opinion.

by Gerry SA Mon 29 Sep 2014, 6:13 pm

Guerrero isn't on your list. But Khan, who's beaten a shot Collazo, is.

Khan is barely top 15 at welterweight. Let alone 6.

by bellchees Mon 29 Sep 2014, 6:21 pm

It's a bit contradictory to say you're not impressed with Manny's opposition and have him below Brook when 4 of his last 5 fights are against Marquez and Bradley who both rank above Porter which is Brooks only win of note. Also Maidana as the best of the rest despite going 0-4 with people on the list is a bit off.

That aside Floyd is a clear number 1 at the moment. Then in a chasing pack you've got Manny, Marquez and Bradley who are all a bit more proven than the rest. Then after that you might as well draw names out of a hat to pick an order, we'll have a better idea if some of them actually get round to bloody fighting each other instead of sitting around hoping to get a fight with Floyd.

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 29 Sep 2014, 6:23 pm

1. Floyd
2. Manny
3. Bradley
4. Marquez
5. Thurman
6. Maidana
7. Brook
8. Porter
9. Guerrero
10. Alexander

by kingraf Mon 29 Sep 2014, 6:26 pm

Mhmm... Bradley is a better win than any other there. Even accounting for the fact that Brook is undefeated... Porter alone doesn't put you at two. Collazo a bigger win than Paccy and Martinez?

by .aveyard2.0 Mon 29 Sep 2014, 11:25 pm

My thinking with Bradley is that I personally believe he is not the same fighter after the Provo fight and loss to manny.

I personally rate brook, and it wasn't who's beaten who as the sole consideration.

Finally I don't think Guerrero beats any of the fighters listed.

by mobilemaster8 Mon 29 Sep 2014, 11:33 pm

Dont agree with Alexander mate. Would swap him to the upcoming Danny Garcia as I believe he is on his way up.

If not, then I'd still rank probably Malignaggi or Broner above Devon....he is that much of a stinking fighter and should have been wiped off the seen when he lost to Kotelnik and Mathyssee.

by Gerry SA Mon 29 Sep 2014, 11:37 pm

.aveyard2.0 wrote:My thinking with Bradley is that I personally believe he is not the same fighter after the Provo fight and loss to manny.

I personally rate brook, and it wasn't who's beaten who as the sole consideration.

Finally I don't think Guerrero beats any of the fighters listed.

So Bradley lost to PacMan and isn't the same fighter anymore? What crap you on about? Bradley doesn't fought since the second PacMan fight.

Brook beat the weakest welterweight title holder and you rank him second? I'm pretty sure Porter is the only top 10 ranked fighter Brook's every fought. Brook's 7/8/9 at the very best.

How'd you know Guerrero doesn't beat anyone on your list? Marquez, Alexander,Khan' Porter and Brook are all very winnable fights.

by .aveyard2.0 Mon 29 Sep 2014, 11:38 pm

I thought broner lost to Paulie, who got old over night against porter.

Perhaps Devon was a bad call though.

Yeah Garcia is in theory a threat to them all. Though I thought before khan got caught he was boxing circles around him!

by .aveyard2.0 Mon 29 Sep 2014, 11:43 pm

Yes exactly. He won but took a pasting against Provo, openly admitted the fight took a lot out of him. Lost to manny which is far from a disgrace. So an ass kicking and first loss Id say he won't be the same fighter, very few are. That's what crap I'm on about.

I disagree re brook who has shown himself to be a level up on everyone he fights, and is an undefeated champ...which I explained would have him start as favourite over most names.

Perhaps Guerrero would beat Alexander, but other than that his general performances I don't rate. A few good wins would change that but right now that is my opinion.

by Gerry SA Mon 29 Sep 2014, 11:52 pm

.aveyard2.0 wrote:Yes exactly. He won but took a pasting against Provo, openly admitted the fight took a lot out of him. Lost to manny which is far from a disgrace. So an ass kicking and first loss Id say he won't be the same fighter, very few are. That's what crap I'm on about.

I disagree re brook who has shown himself to be a level up on everyone he fights, and is an undefeated champ...which I explained would have him start as favourite over most names.

Perhaps Guerrero would beat Alexander, but other than that his general performances I don't rate. A few good wins would change that but right now that is my opinion.

Brook's an undefeated champion, so what? Brook's fought 30 stiffs and Porter...hardly the CV off a top boxer.

Quigg's unbeaten and he's also feasted plenty of bums...does that mean Quigg's second to Rigondeaux? Hell no.

Guerrero's got three good wins at welterwelter: Berto, Aydin(who was unbeaten) and kamegai(who would KO most 147 guys).

by .aveyard2.0 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 12:22 am

Brook beats all 3 with some ease for me. My point about brook being an unbeaten champion means that he will likely fight in uk, against any of the fighters in that situation who would be a betting favourite?

Your point re quigg is off topic and irrelevant

by AlexHuckerby Tue 30 Sep 2014, 12:36 am

Honestly, put Thurman in there with Bradley, Marquez, Khan, Maidana, Manny more or less any of them I would genuinely pick him to win if they were the next fight.Let's not forget my Keith Thurman beats Mayweather in 2015 thread...

by .aveyard2.0 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 12:40 am

Thurman is facing a big year, where we will see where he is. I didn't see that thread but have to disagree as I don't see him getting a shot...

by AlexHuckerby Tue 30 Sep 2014, 2:07 am

I posted it in like 2012.

by Diamond in the rough Tue 30 Sep 2014, 7:07 am

Floyd (can't pick against him)
Manny (only Floyd Marquez, Thurman causing him trouble)
Thurman (beats everyone bar manny and Floyd)
Marquez/Bradley (even)
Khan (think he beats all except manny/Floyd/Thurman can't rank him higher than Marquez and Bradley just yet though)
Maidana
Guerrero
Brook
Porter
Alexander

by TopHat24/7 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 8:48 am

Gerry SA wrote:Guerrero isn't on your list. But Khan, who's beaten a shot Collazo, is.

Khan is barely top 15 at welterweight. Let alone 6.

And who the fook has RG beaten??

As always, take the blinkers off, Gerry.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 8:50 am

Gerry SA wrote:
.aveyard2.0 wrote:Yes exactly. He won but took a pasting against Provo, openly admitted the fight took a lot out of him. Lost to manny which is far from a disgrace. So an ass kicking and first loss Id say he won't be the same fighter, very few are. That's what crap I'm on about.

I disagree re brook who has shown himself to be a level up on everyone he fights, and is an undefeated champ...which I explained would have him start as favourite over most names.

Perhaps Guerrero would beat Alexander, but other than that his general performances I don't rate. A few good wins would change that but right now that is my opinion.
Guerrero's got three good wins at welterwelter: Berto, Aydin(who was unbeaten) and kamegai(who would KO most 147 guys).

by **88Chris05** Tue 30 Sep 2014, 9:22 am

1) Mayweather
2) Pacquiao
3) Bradley
4) Marquez
5) Maidana
6) Brook
7) Thurman
8) Porter
9) Alexander
10) Guerrero

Tricky. Khan would normally be in there, but his best wins and performances have come at 140 - his Welterweight career hasn't really taken off at all yet. Good showing and win against Collazo but not enough to get him ahead of the more proven, consistent Welterweights just yet. I'd probably pick Thurman to beat Brook, but Brook has the edge in ratings for now as he's pipped Thurman at the post in terms of getting a big, breakthrough win. Maidana average agaisnt Alexander but a bit of a revelation since, looking much more solid against Karass, Lopez and Broner, and then of course he gave Mayweather his toughest and closest fight in a dozen years.

I'm pretty happy with the top four, but outside of that it's very difficult with mixed results, varying form and different styles / skills for all of them. Great division at the moment, though.

by hazharrison Tue 30 Sep 2014, 10:59 am

1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Bradley
4. Marquez
5. Brook
6. Maidana
7. Thurman
8. Porter
9. Alexander
10. Khan

As per TBRB.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 11:09 am

Bradley pretty high there given how badly he's been exposed at the weight??

Twice beaten by Pac, scraped past JMM and should've lost or drawn to Provo if ref'd properly (kd's being missed) - someone he shouldn't have been going life & death with if 3rd best in the division.

by mobilemaster8 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 11:52 am

I don't know about that Toppy mate. I dee what your saying, but if that's the case, then remove Brook. He has a life and death scrap with Carson Jones...and he is a lot lower than Prov (who is a good gatekeeper borderline world ranked)....

I don't know why people have Devon on the list. He should have lost against Kotelnik and Mathyssee.....IMO....he got outhussled by Porter and just outmanned vs Bradley.

by mobilemaster8 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 11:53 am

Yes Bradley lost to PAC and scraped past JMM....but they are highly regarded super fighters to be fair....no shame in that.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 11:57 am

Op must be a Brook fan................

Manny second for me........The rest are interchangeable...

by hazharrison Tue 30 Sep 2014, 12:02 pm

Pretty sad that there's a full scale discussion about a divisional top ten.

The TBRB are pretty sound. They tend to base it on who beats who at the weight (which makes sense to me).

by **88Chris05** Tue 30 Sep 2014, 12:18 pm

He might have scraped by Marquez, Toppy, but Mayweather aside that's the only way anyone ever beats Marquez, really - and Marquez in all likelihood could still teach a lesson or two to some of the Welters in the above list, even now. To be honest, in his one attempt at Marquez he beat him more soundly and unequivocally than Manny managed in four attempts, so he deserves praise for that win.

Provodnikov's not from the elite level, but he's not exactly a journeyman either. I thought Bradley won the fight by a couple of points, so even with the missed knockdown he'd still have just about scraped the decision for me. Not a great showing by his standards when you look at what he's capable of, but the record books will show that he beat a decent fighter in Ruslan. I'll always cop some flak for saying that he wasn't as outclassed or clearly beaten as just about everyone else seems to think in the first Pacquiao fight, but concede that he was clearly beaten in the return - but Pacquiao is an all-time great (albeit one who is past his best), so hardly a cause for embarrassment.

Apart from lacking punch power, Bradley probably has fewer really notable weaknesses and short-comings as a figher than most of the other guys in the list and I think his good all-round game means he'd pick up more wins that most of the guys below him in a round robin kind of thing, which might sway my opinion a bit. But I'd struggle to put guys like Maidana, Brook and Thurman above him, personally.

by bellchees Tue 30 Sep 2014, 1:06 pm

Was it just me that thought Bradley was pretty comfortable against Marquez, I haven't seen it since it happened but remember having him 3 or 4 rounds ahead.

by **hampo17** Tue 30 Sep 2014, 1:09 pm

The judges had it pretty close but I thought he was comfortable in that fight Bellchees. Marquez has a way of making every fight close so no shame in that for Bradley.

by milkyboy Tue 30 Sep 2014, 1:14 pm

Surprised how high maidana is on most lists. His roughhouse style troubled floyd, but until floyd fights someone else we don't know how much is down to floyd possibly losing a step. He deserves a bonus place or two for slapping boner, but other than that bottom end of top 10 for me.

Thurman may end up near the top but he can't be near it now. Bradley has to be high. He beat jmm with a little to spare on my card. He tried to get 'consumer friendly' against prov (and manny to a degree) instead of doing what he does best. It may be that the prov fight has done some lasting damage so we may have seen the best of him... but the brooks and thurmans etc need a few more notches on the bedpost before they could be higher.

by milkyboy Tue 30 Sep 2014, 1:26 pm

hazharrison wrote:Pretty sad that there's a full scale discussion about a divisional top ten.

The TBRB are pretty sound. They tend to base it on who beats who at the weight (which makes sense to me).

Perhaps you'd prefer to comment on truss' latest thread. 'My grandpa kicked joe louis' ass'... Or my latest piece 'a silent beating: why hagler fans watch his back catalogue with the Kleenex handy' Very Happy

by TopHat24/7 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 2:08 pm

Probs being a little harsh re JMM, from memory I did score it to Bradley, but only by a round or two. As you say, JMM not someone to win clearly against, unless you're PBF (irrespective of weight BS).

But Provo is no better than Porter and Kell did better against him than Bradley did Provo, I had him losing if I counted this missed KD, from memory.

In two fights against Pac I think I gave him 6 rounds, at best. Totally outclassed, albeit by a great.

And that's his entire record at WW. And it's clear by people's comments that we're only counting WW records hence why Khan doesn't appear much and RG isn't deserving of much of a ranking, bar one deluded poster.

Bradley's LWW CV is a hell of a lot more stellar than his WW one.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 2:13 pm

1) Mayweather
2) Pacquiao
3) Marquez
4) Maidana
5) Brook
6) Thurman
7) Bradley
8) Porter
9) Guerrero
10) Alexander

Frankly that'd probably change every time I tried it, bar the top few. Maidana feels too high, maybe......

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 2:17 pm

milkyboy wrote:
hazharrison wrote:Pretty sad that there's a full scale discussion about a divisional top ten.

The TBRB are pretty sound. They tend to base it on who beats who at the weight (which makes sense to me).

Perhaps you'd prefer to comment on truss' latest thread. 'My grandpa kicked joe louis' ass'... Or my latest piece 'a silent beating: why hagler fans watch his back catalogue with the Kleenex handy'

Sound like interesting threads where can I find them ??

by bellchees Tue 30 Sep 2014, 3:48 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Probs being a little harsh re JMM, from memory I did score it to Bradley, but only by a round or two. As you say, JMM not someone to win clearly against, unless you're PBF (irrespective of weight BS).

But Provo is no better than Porter and Kell did better against him than Bradley did Provo, I had him losing if I counted this missed KD, from memory.

In two fights against Pac I think I gave him 6 rounds, at best. Totally outclassed, albeit by a great.

And that's his entire record at WW. And it's clear by people's comments that we're only counting WW records hence why Khan doesn't appear much and RG isn't deserving of much of a ranking, bar one deluded poster.

Bradley's LWW CV is a hell of a lot more stellar than his WW one.

I had totally forgot that the Alexander match was at LWW, that makes Bradley much harder to rank up there above the 5-10 crowd and in with the group chasing Floyd, might have to have a re think. Too much guess work here and more fights need to be made.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 4:11 pm

Yeh, his LWW cv was a who's who, apart from Khan, but at WW it's much more limited.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 30 Sep 2014, 4:33 pm

Mayweather, Manny.......................and the rest...

by Hammersmith harrier Tue 30 Sep 2014, 5:48 pm

It's a tricky division; Mayweather and Pacquiao are the obvious top two but beyond that much of it is dependent on fights at lower weights.

Marquez I feel will always struggle against a fully fledged Welterweight with speed or genuine aggressive punching ability, he's just too small and old now.

Bradley, Maidana, Guerrero and Alexander I don't particularly rate at the weight either which sort of leaves Brook and Thurman who i'd have at 3 and 4.

by Steffan Tue 30 Sep 2014, 5:52 pm

.aveyard2.0 wrote:Who makes up the current top 10 in the sports current glamour division? (on a purely monetary basis)

Here is mine based on my personal opinion of their ability to beat one another if they were to fight next:

1) Floyd- despite what his detractors may say, still on another level
2) Brook...

Welterweight landscape: Who makes the current top 10? 4096624-1669536371-13985

by Derbymanc Tue 30 Sep 2014, 7:23 pm

by 3fingers Tue 30 Sep 2014, 8:44 pm

.aveyard2.0,

thumbs up to your marrquez vs maidana suggestion

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