Best golfer here?

First topic message reminder :

Following on from the Handicap thread, who is the best/lowest handicapper currently contributing to the golf board?

Of course there were a few tasty golfers on the old 606- Rory Mac and Lee Westwood undoubtedly top of the pile.

Think super is the lowest I've seen, 2 if I remember correctly. Anyone lower than this?

It's simple George.

Witchcraft.

Been chopped to 13 this year.

Managed to play to it.................................NEVER.

Presumably (and assuming it's a congu h/cap) OS you had played better than 13 to get to it?

Put a purple patch together for a few holes but then slipped back to my regular level of about 18 - it was to reactivate my handicap.

Go and play the St.Neots pitch and putt shanker, that'll get your handicap down . . . . if you can get past the club gestapo.

I imagine goldwolf (gw now I think) must have been one of the best when he was playing competitively.

Handicaps should be reviewed each year anyway so if you can't get near it you should get some shots back, or I believe you can ask h/cap sec for yours to be reviewed.

Failing that I think you can ask to submit 3 cards again for a re-assessment.

Is a horrible feeling not being able to get there or thereabouts at least occasionally. So frustrating and takes enjoyment away.

I'm down to 11 (unofficial, but based on every round recorded on online handicap tracker for last two and a bit years)

Considering when this place opened if I was struggling to break a hundred reasonably happy with that.

Do you guys find playing in comps and medals helps improve your game and therefore your handicap, considering joining a club for next year.

I guess if you want to go to single digits (and have the time) you need to play quite often,  put yourself in competitive situations regularly and probably get some coaching as well. Joining a club would be a good move in that respect.

Nay Bother wrote:I'm down to 11 (unofficial, but based on every round recorded on online handicap tracker for last two and a bit years)

Considering when this place opened if I was struggling to break a hundred reasonably happy with that.

Do you guys find playing in comps and medals helps improve your game and therefore your handicap, considering joining a club for next year.

If you are really serious about getting better, and getting better quickly I would concentrate on practicing the following.

1. Short game (chipping especially)
2. Putting
3. Making sensible decisions based on ability, in other words, good course management, staying away from hazards, aiming for the widest part of fairways, middle of greens etc.

The best way to get lower scores is to master driving the ball. Forget about the short game until you can put yourself in play from the tee most of the time.

I find it baffling when high handicappers don't have a driver or refuse to use it. As courses get longer you need to be able to put yourself in the best possible position from the tee.

Mac, you do know that the driver is the hardest club to hit in the bag don't you?

The best possible position is certainly not always the longest one from the tee.

Chipping and putting require far less talent, skill, timing or rythym than hitting a driver true and long.

But if you're playing off 11 you'd probably be around green in par minus 2 shots. So when trying to get into single digits the long game usually isn't the issue.

Very true Pedro, when you think about it. Somewhere around 75% of all shots are within about 150 yards.
Makes sense to practice the shots you face more of in order to make them fewer of them in future.

You're a two SR?! Tips with the putter mate? it's holding me back, or rather traditionally held me back. I'm a four currently, but I've only had two or three rounds in the last year.

I wouldn't say I'm a great putter Raf, although my main tip is to give an exagerrated follow through, gets top spin on the ball meaning a longer roll and to keep the head down right through the putt. I listen for the drop rather than look for it.


Most people are always short with putts, It's difficult, but try to get the ball with enough pace to at least get past the hole.

kingraf

To be a good putter you need to master the plumb bobbing technique and read the relevant rotella book.  Simples.

Sounds true enough, always putted with an abbreviated swing. Interestingly, was ingrained upon me that slightly short is as a rule better than going past the hole. Wonder if that's a consequence of highveldt greens generally being a little faster, and therefore a bit more unforgiving with overhit putters.

Most people are also short with chips - same applies, get it them hole-high at least, unless going too long would leave you a difficult downhill putt.
Bet 75% of chips and short pitches come up short of the hole.

Would imagine so Kwini. Chipping is the best part of my game, but I could probably afford to get them a bit further. Very often I'm missing chipping in by a foot.

Raf, not sure why you'd want to putt to leave it short. Surely you want to hole them?

Mate, the idea, at least in my home course, was that a if you putting it, and fall just short, it's a bogey, or par, depending. If you putt and overhit it, some of the holes can mean you're then looking at 3+

Ah, I see what you mean, I look to hole virtually every putt myself, depends on the green and length of putt, but I never purposely leave it short.

I'll have a look at it, got rounds next Tuesday and Wednesday before a charity tourney next Saturday. Will see how it goes.

A good way to practice distance control is to putt whilst looking at the hole.

I guess it all depends on your ambition level. If you’re a mid-handicapper as myself the aim is just to get the ball within a 1 yd radius of the hole. In general I find it much easier to hit it past the hole than leave it short. Probably because I don’t want to be associated with Ian Poulter a lil girl.

The thing is though, putting is somethign that anyone could be good at. It isn't a strength issue, it's not a timing issue, it's not much more than picking the line and judging the length. An 16 handicapper could be just as good as a scratch golfer at this part of the game.

McLaren wrote:The best way to get lower scores is to master driving the ball.  Forget about the short game until you can put yourself in play from the tee most of the time.  

I find it baffling when high handicappers don't have a driver or refuse to use it.  As courses get longer you need to be able to put yourself in the best possible position from the tee.

super_realist wrote:Mac, you do know that the driver is the hardest club to hit in the bag don't you?

The best possible position is certainly not always the longest one from the tee.

Chipping and putting require far less talent, skill, timing or rythym than hitting a driver true and long.

Mac's right though. Stats back up that it's long game/GIR that makes the difference. Hit it longer, hit more GIRs (i.e. shorter irons into target), better in the long run. I'm not saying don't practice short game etc, but biggest gains come from getting better at the long game.

In my experience, the more aggressive putters are the best putters.

Don't subscribe to the notion of leaving putts short (altho I do, but then I'm a terrible putter); surely, if your judgement of length is that good, you'd be better off hitting it just a little harder? Possibly slightly easier to miss a tiddler short of the hole than one that drifted just past; at least you know the line of a putt which goes by the hole.
I've only ever seen one putt come up short, and then holed. Entirely due to a sudden gale-force wind.

I don't subscribe to the importance of knowing the line as it goes past.
For one your hitting it from the other side, from the other a dying putt which rolls two foot past the hole will break much more than the return putt which will be coming off the putter, hopefully reasonably firmly.

True dat, s_r, But the clue is useful, especially if one was originally uncertain of the break.
Two feet not necessarily much use, but three or four feet certainly is.

kingraf wrote:You're a two SR?! Tips with the putter mate? it's holding me back, or rather traditionally held me back. I'm a four currently, but I've only had two or three rounds in the last year.

kingraf, as a south african the best thing you could do is visit Gary Player for some tips . A one-second lesson from him would probably have you playing off scratch in no time

Do you use them Inco? I always look at Player tips with a distrustful eye. Next he'll have me doing 1500 sit ups a day, and only eating ostrich from the Karoo cause everything else has growth hormones.

nah kingraf, but if Player thinks he can sort Tiger Woods' game in 1 hour then God knows what he could do for the ordinary golfer.

Something I've found helpful with putting in the past is, once you've identified the correct line, pick a target about 6 inches or more in front of the ball along that line(grain of sand or whatever) and just concentrate on hitting the ball over that target at the correct speed. Simplistic but worth a try.

Have you tried other methods like putting a line on your ball or the Keegan Bradley stink-eye?

He probably could you know, but could Woods do 1500 sit ups a day?

To be honest, as I alluded to a little earlier. I haven't really played much, let alone practised this year. Spent most of my free time this year crafting my own watch (it was supposedly a two month matter, but it took me eight!) and coaching the local junior cricket team. But I'm looking to get back into the swing of things. I'm also toying with grtting new clubs. Got my Taylormade's in 2011, and I've since hit a slight growth spurt, not much, just an inch, inch and a half, and I swear my connection just isn't the same. My old man thinks I'm imagining it, but I rate it's true. I've never been a glorious putter, but it's come to pieces at times post growth spurt

Navy, it might be true if you're pro or close to scratch. But I doubt it's the case if you're a mid-handicapper.

pedro wrote:Navy, it might be true if you're pro or close to scratch. But I doubt it's the case if you're a mid-handicapper.

I think it's totally dependent on the player themselves. If I hit 3 more greens a round, I think i'd easily be a scratch golfer, trouble is that I really struggle to hit greens in regulation, i'm not missing by much, but i'm missing by enough to put pressure on a decent short game around the greens.
Off the tee I hit a decent length and am very accurate, getting better off the tee wouldn't help me and additional length would simply bring more hazards and tighter fairways into the equation.

I'm going to make an effort this winter (that's the intention) to improve from the 150 yards mark as MY stats show that's where I'm causing myself a problem.

More players should look back over their rounds and analyse where their problems lie. A friend of mine is almost the exact opposite to me, rubbish off the tee, but hits a lot of greens, our handicaps are almost identical, as are our scores, but the way we get there is completely different.

We'd make one hell of a player, but where he needs to work on his long game, I need to work on my mid and short irons. There is no hard and fast rule to getting better, but the vast majority of shots are with short clubs.

As i say in 3 years i went from shooting 105s to regularly going under 80 and the main reason for my improvement is the increased length and accuracy off the Tee.

I am a pretty good driver these days but still hit and miss with my irons so the fact that i now take at the very most a 7 iron into greens on the majority of holes has helped greatly.

The short game has obviously improved as i have got better but the main improvement has been that i from the long game.

pedro wrote:Navy, it might be true if you're pro or close to scratch, or a high-handicapper. But I doubt it's the case if you're a mid-handicapper.

I edited a bit. I agree that the long game may be the key to get you to a mid-handicap, as well as improve an already low handicap. But not to get you from a mid to a low handicap.

I am not great, but i have my moments, just not consistently through a round. Off the tee is somewhere i notice i need more consistency. I try anything from Rescue to Driver, sometimes to great effect sometimes rubbish. I dont really practice so i cannot really complain. But I would say the closer you get the easier it is to match someone of a much better standard. From 5ft you have much better chance then you do at 500yards.

pedro wrote:

pedro wrote:Navy, it might be true if you're pro or close to scratch, or a high-handicapper. But I doubt it's the case if you're a mid-handicapper.

I edited a bit. I agree that the long game may be the key to get you to a mid-handicap, as well as improve an already low handicap. But not to get you from a mid to a low handicap.

See the point but don't buy it I'm afraid. If you're a mid-handicapper (Div II?), then you aren't hitting it massive and you aren't hitting it very straight - as a general rule. There's a direct inverse correlation between drive carry distance and handicap, for example. Of course there's a balance to be struck re. position vs. distance but you should go for max distance commensurate with your game, pretty much every time. It's often better to be in light rough and further up the hole (therefore hitting a much shorter approach) than centre of the fairway but hitting a mid/long iron into the green. Over a period and on average, longer means more GIR, nearer to GIR when you miss, nearer to flag when making a GIR etc etc.
Unless you're really bad at putting, say, you aren't going to improve it to the same extent as your driving/long game.
Here's a thought - would you rather take on a pro for the beers at, say, a driving competition or a putting competition? In other words, spend more time on full swing mechanics than anything else.

HAving played with quite a few pro's and decent amateurs I would say that there isn't a massive amount to be gained from improving the driver for someone under about 5.
Even with a good short game though, those guys killed me around the green.

I've seen loads of mid handicappers who can hit a great ball off the tee, the trouble is they aren't taking into considerations like narrowing fairways, rough, trees, ponds, bunkers OB etc when they automatically reach for the manly, masculine driver. In other words, the course management of the mid handicapper usually stinks the house out.

For me I'd like to be able to leave an approach of 120 yards on every par 4.
I'm much more comfortable with that than an 80 yards shot.

Everyone is very different. It's a statistical fact that you WILL take most of your shots with a putter. It will never do you any harm to get better at that.

Oh, I agree with pretty much all of that - as long as one has maxed out one's long game ability. You have to hit long shots at least fairly straight but the payback is bigger for long game improvements for most people.

It's a statistical nonsense that being 120 out is better than 80 out. Go hit pitches to a practice flag from 120 and then from 80 and I bet anything you'd care to mention that, for a big enough sample size, your average distance away from target is less from 80 yards than it is from 120. It just doesn't make sense even if many think it's better hitting a full wedge cf. a 3/4 wedge (or whatever). Learn to hit a 3/4 wedge better in that case but there's more margin for error, the closer to the target one is.

Of course, all of this is a balance - you have to get maximum distance with minimum, reasonable risk. Understanding what that means for any player is notoriously prone to interference by one's ego.

An interesting take on this:

Lowest Score Wins

High Alert:

Exclusive photo of navyblueshorts with his latest driver:

https://twitter.com/GolfChannel/status/529669458676416512/photo/1

Just kidding navy . . . . . . . . !

navyblueshorts wrote:Oh, I agree with pretty much all of that - as long as one has maxed out one's long game ability. You have to hit long shots at least fairly straight but the payback is bigger for long game improvements for most people.

It's a statistical nonsense that being 120 out is better than 80 out. Go hit pitches to a practice flag from 120 and then from 80 and I bet anything you'd care to mention that, for a big enough sample size, your average distance away from target is less from 80 yards than it is from 120. It just doesn't make sense even if many think it's better hitting a full wedge cf. a 3/4 wedge (or whatever). Learn to hit a 3/4 wedge better in that case but there's more margin for error, the closer to the target one is.

Of course, all of this is a balance - you have to get maximum distance with minimum, reasonable risk. Understanding what that means for any player is notoriously prone to interference by one's ego.

An interesting take on this:

Lowest Score Wins

Navy, it's about hitting a full shot. I'm far more consistent and comfortable hitting a wedge 120 yards than I am hitting a 52 wedge at a half swing to 80 yards. I might hit a lot close with 80 yards, but I'll shank a lot more, and I'll catch quite a few more heavy or thin.
It's lack of practice on my part for sure, but I'd simply prefer the longer shot. For a start a full shot is much easier to impart spin on and a full shot goes a much more reliable distance.
Most pro's have a favoured distance to leave the ball from the green too.

I've certainly found myself "too near" a target, although my lack of practice of that sort of shot is the issue.

kwinigolfer wrote:High Alert:

Exclusive photo of navyblueshorts with his latest driver:

https://twitter.com/GolfChannel/status/529669458676416512/photo/1

Just kidding navy . . . . . . . . !

Earlier in the year I'd probably have tried that as driving was merde. TaylorMade's next release perhaps?

super_realist wrote:Navy, it's about hitting a full shot. I'm far more consistent and comfortable hitting a wedge 120 yards than I am hitting a 52 wedge at a half swing to 80 yards. I might hit a lot close with 80 yards, but I'll shank a lot more, and I'll catch quite a few more heavy or thin.
It's lack of practice on my part for sure, but I'd simply prefer the longer shot. For a start a full shot is much easier to impart spin on and a full shot goes a much more reliable distance.
Most pro's have a favoured distance to leave the ball from the green too.

I've certainly found myself "too near" a target, although my lack of practice of that sort of shot is the issue.

Yeah. Maybe. As you say, more practice needed on the sub-full swing shots. Who says the pros who do this sort of thing are playing the proven percentages though? If they have to stop it quick, dropping the ball over a trap with the flag at the front then they're going to factor in spin as well.
It's risk vs. reward but wherever possible, length and getting as close as possible to a GIR will make the biggest difference.

The introduction of this full wedge vs half wedge argument is a clear red herring in terms of whether or not it is better to drive the ball further in order to make gains in scoring performance. Navy and myself have suggested that if higher handicappers could get to the point of hitting a short iron instead of a long iron or wood their scores would greatly improve. It is not often that hitting driver forces you to hit a half wedge whereas another choice from the tea would have left a full wedge.

MAc, I think what you seem to ignore is that surrounding greens there tends to be hazards, rough and narrower fairways. In those situations I'd rather have a full shot from further back, than risk my drive end up somewhere where I might be closer but run the risk of a more difficult shot, or not make the green at all from one of the areas designed to catch me out.

Now, if for example I'm playing 18 at TOC, I'll hit driver all day long because there isn't any risk at all on that hole. An 80 yard wedge shot (provided I've done enough practice) is preferable to one of 120 yards, however driving it 80 yards from the 12th and I'm risking all sorts of problems with rough, gorse and bunkers, so I'd much rather be playing in from a safe 120, noting as well the control I'll have with a full shot to stop the ball on the short top of the green where the pin usually is.

It's all course management and practice of the shots you are likely to face, I'm guilty of not practicing the 80 yard/half swing shot though. You need to practice all shots, the short game is truly what will make you a scoring machine though as that's where 75% of the shots take place.


MOst people don't have a plan for each hole, which is one of the reasons most golfers have a high handicap. It's not always a good idea to hit it as far as possible if the risk outweighs the reward. The second shot is so important.

Super

Again, we get it. For you it is infrequently the case that you can drive to several wedge yardages. In what way does this contribute to disputing or agreeing with the premise that for high handicappers improving driving would yield a better improvement in score compared to practicing the short game?

Mac, what I'm saying is that being able to hit the ball longer and straighter is no use if the area into which your new found driving skills are getting you is less safe and more risky than laying up slightly further back.

I'm all for players being able to hit driver better, but if you don't combine it with good course management, then what use is it if you are getting into trouble more?

It sounds like you'd rather be in a pot bunker 80 yards from the green than be 120 yards from the green slap bang in the middle of a fairway.