Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
First topic message reminder :
Scotland v Argentina
8 November 2014
KO: 17:30 GMT
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
Touch judges : George Clancy (IRFU) & Marius Mitrea (FIR)
TV : Eric Gauzins (FFR)
BBC Two/Various others
A. Teams:
Scotland
15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); 24 caps
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors); 13 caps
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors); uncapped
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors); 8 caps
11 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors); 10 caps
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors); 2 caps
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester); 31 caps
1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby); 36 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby); 77 caps
3 Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors); 60 caps
4 Richie Gray (Castres); 39 caps
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors); 5 caps
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors); 7 caps
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish); 3 caps
8 Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors); 1 cap
16 Scott Lawson (Gloucester); 45 caps
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors); 3 caps
18 Geoff Cross (London Irish); 32 caps
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors); 9 caps
20 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan); 40 caps
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors); 12 caps
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors); 15 caps
23 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors); 88 caps
Argentina
15 Joaquin Tuculet
14 Juan Imhoff
13 Marcelo Bosch
12 Juan Martín Hernandez
11 Manuel Montero
10 Nicolas Sanchez
9 Martin Landajo
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Agustin Creevy (capt)
3 Ramiro Herrera
4 Tomas Lavanini
5 Juan Cruz Guillemai
6 Rodrigo Baez
7 Javier Ortega Desio
8 Leonardo Senatore
16 Matias Cortese
17 Lucas Noguera Paz
18 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro
19 Lucas Ponce
20 Facundo Isa
21 Tomas Cubelli
22 Santiago Gonzalez Iglesias
23 Horacio Agulla
B. Form - head to head (last 5 matches):
21 June 2014
Estadio Mario Alberto Kempes, Córdoba
19 – 21 to Scotland
2014 Summer Test
25 September 2011
Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington
13 – 12 to Argentina
2011 Rugby World Cup
19 June 2010
Estadio José María Minella, Mar del Plata
9 – 13 to Scotland
2010 Scottish tour of Argentina
12 June 2010
Estadio José Fierro, Tucumán
16 – 24 to Scotland
2010 Scottish tour of Argentina
28 November 2009
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 9 to Argentina
2009 Autumn International
C. Form:
Scotland
28 June 2014
South Africa 55–6 Scotland
20 June 2014
Argentina 19–21 Scotland
14 June 2014
Canada 17–19 Scotland
7 June 2014
United States 6–24 Scotland
Argentina
Oct 4, 2014
Rugby Championship / Puma Trophy
Argentina 21 - 17 Australia
Sep 27, 2014
Rugby Championship
Argentina 13 - 34 New Zealand
Sep 13, 2014
Rugby Championship / Puma Trophy
Australia 32 - 25 Argentina
Sep 6, 2014
Rugby Championship
New Zealand 28 - 9 Argentina
Scotland v Argentina
8 November 2014
KO: 17:30 GMT
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
Touch judges : George Clancy (IRFU) & Marius Mitrea (FIR)
TV : Eric Gauzins (FFR)
BBC Two/Various others
A. Teams:
Scotland
15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); 24 caps
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors); 13 caps
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors); uncapped
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors); 8 caps
11 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors); 10 caps
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors); 2 caps
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester); 31 caps
1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby); 36 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby); 77 caps
3 Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors); 60 caps
4 Richie Gray (Castres); 39 caps
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors); 5 caps
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors); 7 caps
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish); 3 caps
8 Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors); 1 cap
16 Scott Lawson (Gloucester); 45 caps
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors); 3 caps
18 Geoff Cross (London Irish); 32 caps
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors); 9 caps
20 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan); 40 caps
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors); 12 caps
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors); 15 caps
23 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors); 88 caps
Argentina
15 Joaquin Tuculet
14 Juan Imhoff
13 Marcelo Bosch
12 Juan Martín Hernandez
11 Manuel Montero
10 Nicolas Sanchez
9 Martin Landajo
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Agustin Creevy (capt)
3 Ramiro Herrera
4 Tomas Lavanini
5 Juan Cruz Guillemai
6 Rodrigo Baez
7 Javier Ortega Desio
8 Leonardo Senatore
16 Matias Cortese
17 Lucas Noguera Paz
18 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro
19 Lucas Ponce
20 Facundo Isa
21 Tomas Cubelli
22 Santiago Gonzalez Iglesias
23 Horacio Agulla
B. Form - head to head (last 5 matches):
21 June 2014
Estadio Mario Alberto Kempes, Córdoba
19 – 21 to Scotland
2014 Summer Test
25 September 2011
Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington
13 – 12 to Argentina
2011 Rugby World Cup
19 June 2010
Estadio José María Minella, Mar del Plata
9 – 13 to Scotland
2010 Scottish tour of Argentina
12 June 2010
Estadio José Fierro, Tucumán
16 – 24 to Scotland
2010 Scottish tour of Argentina
28 November 2009
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 9 to Argentina
2009 Autumn International
C. Form:
Scotland
28 June 2014
South Africa 55–6 Scotland
20 June 2014
Argentina 19–21 Scotland
14 June 2014
Canada 17–19 Scotland
7 June 2014
United States 6–24 Scotland
Argentina
Oct 4, 2014
Rugby Championship / Puma Trophy
Argentina 21 - 17 Australia
Sep 27, 2014
Rugby Championship
Argentina 13 - 34 New Zealand
Sep 13, 2014
Rugby Championship / Puma Trophy
Australia 32 - 25 Argentina
Sep 6, 2014
Rugby Championship
New Zealand 28 - 9 Argentina
Last edited by George Carlin on Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:08 pm; edited 4 times in total
George Carlin- Admin
- Posts : 15780
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : KSA
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
If VC picks this VX for the next 3 games I think for the first time in many years we will get a true reflection on where Scottish Rugby is.
I did think we might see Kieran Low on the bench instead of Stroker to be honest, but when Stroker has played for Scotland recently he has been good.
Anyone know the commentators for the game? (Can't see it live )
I did think we might see Kieran Low on the bench instead of Stroker to be honest, but when Stroker has played for Scotland recently he has been good.
Anyone know the commentators for the game? (Can't see it live )
Nematode- Posts : 1681
Join date : 2014-01-08
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Can't complain about it being a mainly soap dodging based team. They have been a cut above Edinburgh this year and last.
Dickinsons inclusion is interesting, and a welcome one. He didn't cope well with the smashing style engagement of the Scrum however he has excellent technical strength and IMO could do very well with the Gray lads and either Harley or Cowan providing some extra power.
Delighted for Ashe too
I imagine that Dickinson is keeping the jersey warm for Ryan Grant, who we will hopefully see back at some stage this series. We need a squad of players though and Dickinson is certainly worthy of a place in that squad. he has always been underrated in my opinion.
BigGee- Admin
- Posts : 15416
Join date : 2013-11-05
Location : London
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Some exciting news folks, the SRU have bestowed a great honour upon me...
On the momentous forthcoming occasion of the winning his first cap, me & my mates appear just below St Mark of Bennett in the team video.
Truly we are blessed!
On the momentous forthcoming occasion of the winning his first cap, me & my mates appear just below St Mark of Bennett in the team video.
Truly we are blessed!
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
madmaccas wrote:Overall I'm very happy with that team, the closest to a full form team we've seen since Andy Robinson was at the helm.
But surprised by Dickinson, Stroker covering the back row and the lack of our most potent attacker Visser - but it's only the 1st test so we shall see what happens.
I think there might be a hint in here as to why Visser isn't included.
VC on Planet Rugby wrote:"We have several performance-related themes, and have looked for people who have the ability to control games, take initiative, can pick up the ball and run with it, who like physical confrontation and can keep the ball alive.
des- Posts : 288
Join date : 2013-09-20
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Nematode wrote:Anyone know the commentators for the game? (Can't see it live )
Just as well, the SRU didn't fork out on a new pitch just to have your sort come back again!
You'll have to make do with Alistair Bruce-Ball, Andy Nicol & Phillip Matthews
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Naffest thing you've ever seen?
Feels like a clip from Going Live, the music doesn't help.
Feels like a clip from Going Live, the music doesn't help.
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Christ. Finn Russell looks like he's 9. Laidlaw looks like he's 9 with a stick-on Halloween beard.madmaccas wrote:Naffest thing you've ever seen?
Feels like a clip from Going Live, the music doesn't help.
I've seen more a natural movement at a constipation conference.
George Carlin- Admin
- Posts : 15780
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Location : KSA
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
George Carlin wrote:Christ. Finn Russell looks like he's 9. Laidlaw looks like he's 9 with a stick-on Halloween beard.madmaccas wrote:Naffest thing you've ever seen?
Feels like a clip from Going Live, the music doesn't help.
I've seen more a natural movement at a constipation conference.
Half the team look like they've never seen a ball before, and the rest either have neck problems or can't figure out how the shirt collar works!
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
That vid's a bit cringeworthy.
Thank goodness though we don't have NDL doing the ball juggle, and knocking it on. Or Jim Hamilton taking umbridge with the camera man and getting escorted off the set.
Adam Ashe looks like he's 12!
Thank goodness though we don't have NDL doing the ball juggle, and knocking it on. Or Jim Hamilton taking umbridge with the camera man and getting escorted off the set.
Adam Ashe looks like he's 12!
Anglobraveheart- Posts : 525
Join date : 2012-05-21
Location : South of the Border
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
What in the name of the wee man in the tartan troosers is that on Geoff Cross's face?
Looks like Barclay has donated him his beard and scissors are not allowed in murrayfield.
Ouch
Looks like Barclay has donated him his beard and scissors are not allowed in murrayfield.
Ouch
tigertattie- Posts : 9569
Join date : 2011-07-11
Location : On the naughty step
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
madmaccas wrote:Naffest thing you've ever seen?
Feels like a clip from Going Live, the music doesn't help.
Not one ball dropped - this is not the Scottish team I have grown up with.....
R!skysports- Posts : 3667
Join date : 2011-03-17
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
oh my goodness! I have just seen the scrum doctor's face. That's a hobo's beard.
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
Join date : 2011-03-04
Age : 39
Location : The North, The REAL North (Beyond the Wall)
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:oh my goodness! I have just seen the scrum doctor's face. That's a hobo's beard.
No it's a bird sanctuary
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
I'm sure I saw somewhere that he wasn't going to cut it until he played for Scotland again.
Can't be overly comfortable for the opposition hooker and loosehead - maybe that's the idea!
Can't be overly comfortable for the opposition hooker and loosehead - maybe that's the idea!
RDW- Founder
- Posts : 33129
Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : Sydney
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
The more I look at that team the more I feel the annual (and deeply irrational) sense of optimism overwhelming me. I think this team, and indeed squad of players, could do something really special over the next few year. The way Cotter is talking and the team he has selected implies we've turned a corner. I'm not saying we'll necessarily win, Argentina's victory over Australia must make them favourites, but if we put in a big performance with lots of attacking endeavour, then we'll have something solid to build on for the first time in years.
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
madmaccas wrote:The more I look at that team the more I feel the annual (and deeply irrational) sense of optimism overwhelming me. I think this team, and indeed squad of players, could do something really special over the next few year. The way Cotter is talking and the team he has selected implies we've turned a corner. I'm not saying we'll necessarily win, Argentina's victory over Australia must make them favourites, but if we put in a big performance with lots of attacking endeavour, then we'll have something solid to build on for the first time in years.
I have finally lost that sense of optimism. In fact I am in-different now and will be until the match starts - I will then get a little bit into it, but will fully expect to lose - so will be stress free
I am hoping that I will get the passion back. But so far - I have none left after 10 years of betrayal
R!skysports- Posts : 3667
Join date : 2011-03-17
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Right time for someone to tell it as it is! Yes it is a an exciting team and it is brilliant he has picked players in their actual positions, but we are a long way off being able to say we have turned a corner here - this is very much just the beginning:
Front row
Will Murray hold it together at international level?
Will Ford self-destruct at lineout time? The can't hook / won't hook nickname maybe isn't fair any more given so many other hookers don't hook either, but will this cause us problems is the Argentina front row get the ascendency?
2nd row
Wonderfully athletic combination with a good balance, but they are both very 'nice' - hopefully big Jim has been teaching them a few tricks this week (while ignoring the yellow cards)
Back row
No qualms over Harley, but let's not forget that Blair Cowan (at 28) is fairly unproven at this level and although he has been playing well for London Irish, can he do it against top International teams?
Adam Ashe is very promising, but he's only had 2 starts for Glasgow and only appeared another 5 times off the bench. He is a complete rookie. Bodes were for the long term future, but this time next year the world cup will be over - we need top players in most positions NOW.
Scrum half
I'm a big fan of Laidlaw but if he mis-trusts his stand off and takes on too much himelf, the rest of the team will suffer - he needs to do what he does at Gloucester and get the ball to his 10 as quickly as possible. No more fannying about at rucks pointing at people.
Stand off
This is Finn Russell's first home International. Again he is a wonderful talent with a big future, but we really need to hit the ground running.
So a common theme here is that a lot of players fall into the 'promising yet inexperienced' category. We have 10 months left until the world cup, and only 3 games before the 6N. If we fielded this team with their current level of experience this time last year, I'd have been positive about our chances in the 2015 season. As it stands, we're now relying on inexperienced players to miraculously be significantly better than the people they have replaced - will that be the case?
Front row
Will Murray hold it together at international level?
Will Ford self-destruct at lineout time? The can't hook / won't hook nickname maybe isn't fair any more given so many other hookers don't hook either, but will this cause us problems is the Argentina front row get the ascendency?
2nd row
Wonderfully athletic combination with a good balance, but they are both very 'nice' - hopefully big Jim has been teaching them a few tricks this week (while ignoring the yellow cards)
Back row
No qualms over Harley, but let's not forget that Blair Cowan (at 28) is fairly unproven at this level and although he has been playing well for London Irish, can he do it against top International teams?
Adam Ashe is very promising, but he's only had 2 starts for Glasgow and only appeared another 5 times off the bench. He is a complete rookie. Bodes were for the long term future, but this time next year the world cup will be over - we need top players in most positions NOW.
Scrum half
I'm a big fan of Laidlaw but if he mis-trusts his stand off and takes on too much himelf, the rest of the team will suffer - he needs to do what he does at Gloucester and get the ball to his 10 as quickly as possible. No more fannying about at rucks pointing at people.
Stand off
This is Finn Russell's first home International. Again he is a wonderful talent with a big future, but we really need to hit the ground running.
So a common theme here is that a lot of players fall into the 'promising yet inexperienced' category. We have 10 months left until the world cup, and only 3 games before the 6N. If we fielded this team with their current level of experience this time last year, I'd have been positive about our chances in the 2015 season. As it stands, we're now relying on inexperienced players to miraculously be significantly better than the people they have replaced - will that be the case?
RDW- Founder
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Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : Sydney
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
It's a big ask of mark of Nazareth and Adam ant Ashe to stay on for the full 80 in their first cap
tigertattie- Posts : 9569
Join date : 2011-07-11
Location : On the naughty step
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
15 Warriors in the 23. I hope Fern uses the bench wisely and we end up with the full team from Glasgow.
Yes I do realise this would mean putting Schlong at 8 and Meatball at hooker but I'm just surprised Toonie hasn't tried it before.
You will notice I said tried and not considered.
Yes I do realise this would mean putting Schlong at 8 and Meatball at hooker but I'm just surprised Toonie hasn't tried it before.
You will notice I said tried and not considered.
jimbopip- Posts : 7306
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Location : sunny Essex
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
tigertattie wrote:It's a big ask of mark of Nazareth and AdamantAshe to stay on for the full 80 in their first cap
A sensible point Tiger, and I'm worried that that is when the wheels will fall off.
Arthur Ashe is very mobile, runs good lines and has good hands for off-loading and passing. Strokes has a lot of good qualities but mainly in the hitting and bashing areas.
If goes off we have Schlong to come on. Frankly he'd be better replacing Ashe and putting Strokes at 13. Our wingers wouldn't notice any difference.
p.s. RDW it's Can't Throw/ Won't Hook.
jimbopip- Posts : 7306
Join date : 2012-10-14
Location : sunny Essex
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
I think we as a nation have every right to be confident. Thusfar this season Edinburgh have played well in spells in particular against the impressive Bordeaux and Glasgow have thumped everyone accept Ulster in their matches including Bath who are flying high in the Premiership.
For once the optimism has some evidence at club level to back it up.
The problem for me is still strength in depth. Injuries will be inevitible. As I stated earlier 3 of the potential Edinburgh/Scotland starters are out for the next wee while.
For once the optimism has some evidence at club level to back it up.
The problem for me is still strength in depth. Injuries will be inevitible. As I stated earlier 3 of the potential Edinburgh/Scotland starters are out for the next wee while.
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
Join date : 2011-03-04
Age : 39
Location : The North, The REAL North (Beyond the Wall)
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
jimbopip wrote:
If goes off we have Schlong to come on. Frankly he'd be better replacing Ashe and putting Strokes at 13. Our wingers wouldn't notice any difference.
We could always put Hogg up to 13, Maitland to fullback and Schlong on the wing?
Or Dunbar to 13, Russell into inside centre and Meatball on at 10?
Not a big fan of jiggery-pokery between positions and would rather see like for like swaps but given only 3 bench replacements sometimes that'll have to happen.
I'm a big fan of Schlong in the back row though! He tackles well and is surprisingly good at disrupting and forcing turnovers. As is Dunbar, except he can and will pass...
Pretty happy with that team, Fern has certainly put trust in youth here. I just hope that come Sunday the usual suspects on Facebook and the Scotsman aren't laying into all the young guns for the performance.
RG/JG in the second row will be interesting, I think they should complement each other with JG's grafting and lineout calling, and RG rampaging around the field (though hopefully smashing rucks and being a nuisance). It remains to see whether JG can decipher the Ross Ford lineout enigma machine though!
As an aside, did anyone see the Castres game highlights? They got gubbed by Bordeaux 59-7 but saw in the highlights RG pulling off some audacious holding down of players away from the ball with no punishment - it was almost Hinesesque to see!
highland_scot- Posts : 593
Join date : 2012-05-10
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
In a way it is a shame we are playing NZ this Autumn series. I know it brings in lots of money, but from a rugby point of view I think it would have been better for this squad to play someone like Samoa instead.
3 teams that are at a similar level to us, and that would cause us real problems. But also, 3 teams that we can beat if we play well.
What are we going to learn getting humped by NZ?
3 teams that are at a similar level to us, and that would cause us real problems. But also, 3 teams that we can beat if we play well.
What are we going to learn getting humped by NZ?
RDW- Founder
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
RDW_Scotland wrote:In a way it is a shame we are playing NZ this Autumn series. I know it brings in lots of money, but from a rugby point of view I think it would have been better for this squad to play someone like Samoa instead.
3 teams that are at a similar level to us, and that would cause us real problems. But also, 3 teams that we can beat if we play well.
What are we going to learn getting humped by NZ?
If we can keep it within 20 points and score some tries in the process then that'll be a huge boost to the team, they'll realise that they can mix it with the best.
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
GLove39 wrote: Just as well, the SRU didn't fork out on a new pitch just to have your sort come back again!
We've recruited a double agent - Geoff Cross.
You all joke at that beard, scoff at it. It's all part of our glorious plan, keep it secret though?
We're going to hop on his beard (nobody will suspect a thing) and then spread across the murrayfield training pitch & Murrayfield main pitch (you'll notice a few scrum collapses - that's our double agent in fine action) - nobody will suspect a thing! After that, we'll lie in wait until other teams come along and then hop onto their boots.
Oh how you've underestimated us
Nematode- Posts : 1681
Join date : 2014-01-08
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm sure I saw somewhere that he wasn't going to cut it until he played for Scotland again.
Can't be overly comfortable for the opposition hooker and loosehead - maybe that's the idea!
Thats what I thought as well but then I read an interview with Dr Cross the other day and he said the main reason he has grown the beard is after influence from Josh Strauss when Cross was at Glasgow last season.
He said it was probably the only time in his working life he would get to have a beard like that as when he goes back to being a doctor he won't be able to have a beard like that.
I also see your mate Andy Crammond is starting for Toulon again Castres at the weekend!
Majestic83- Posts : 1580
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Location : East Lothian/Aberdeenshire
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Majestic83 wrote:RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm sure I saw somewhere that he wasn't going to cut it until he played for Scotland again.
Can't be overly comfortable for the opposition hooker and loosehead - maybe that's the idea!
Thats what I thought as well but then I read an interview with Dr Cross the other day and he said the main reason he has grown the beard is after influence from Josh Strauss when Cross was at Glasgow last season.
He said it was probably the only time in his working life he would get to have a beard like that as when he goes back to being a doctor he won't be able to have a beard like that.
I also see your mate Andy Crammond is starting for Toulon again Castres at the weekend!
I hope Laport got his insurance sorted out!
https://www.606v2.com/t56287-toulon-at-it-again
RDW- Founder
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
I'd prefer we were playing Australia.RDW_Scotland wrote:In a way it is a shame we are playing NZ this Autumn series. I know it brings in lots of money, but from a rugby point of view I think it would have been better for this squad to play someone like Samoa instead.
3 teams that are at a similar level to us, and that would cause us real problems. But also, 3 teams that we can beat if we play well.
What are we going to learn getting humped by NZ?
Very excited about this Test match.
Just hope we front up and get stuck in, no point have the best back-line in a decade if we're going backwards. Big responsibility on Laidlaw, Russell and Hogg to ensure we play in the right areas.
Being out played by your kid brother will hopefully provide Richie with the rocket he needs to push on. The pair of them could be huge for us, potential to be one of the best combos in the world.
reallybored- Posts : 928
Join date : 2012-07-13
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
This day is a dark day for me, when Johnson was in charge I always felt on the verge of a call-up myself, this has been devastating.
I would liked to have seen Barclay at 7 as I don't rate Cowan much but Cotter clearly doesn't rate Barclay, Cowan seems to be selected because he's a New Zealander rather than on rugby ability and seems like the run of the mill, overrated mid table AP player whereas on his day Barclay can be very, very special. Admittedly those days had dried up but it appears they're returning. Aside from that it is a very, very exciting team.
I actually had an English friend who said that he thought the Six nations would be between England and Scotland based on that team and that we were one of only two Northern Hemisphere teams with a chance of making an impact at the World cup, coming from a guy who has not exactly been complimentary of Scotland in the past is quite a breakthrough, and I suspect a slightly misplaced opinion but we can dream.
I would liked to have seen Barclay at 7 as I don't rate Cowan much but Cotter clearly doesn't rate Barclay, Cowan seems to be selected because he's a New Zealander rather than on rugby ability and seems like the run of the mill, overrated mid table AP player whereas on his day Barclay can be very, very special. Admittedly those days had dried up but it appears they're returning. Aside from that it is a very, very exciting team.
I actually had an English friend who said that he thought the Six nations would be between England and Scotland based on that team and that we were one of only two Northern Hemisphere teams with a chance of making an impact at the World cup, coming from a guy who has not exactly been complimentary of Scotland in the past is quite a breakthrough, and I suspect a slightly misplaced opinion but we can dream.
123456789- Posts : 1841
Join date : 2011-11-13
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
123456789 wrote:This day is a dark day for me, when Johnson was in charge I always felt on the verge of a call-up myself, this has been devastating.
I would liked to have seen Barclay at 7 as I don't rate Cowan much but Cotter clearly doesn't rate Barclay, Cowan seems to be selected because he's a New Zealander rather than on rugby ability and seems like the run of the mill, overrated mid table AP player whereas on his day Barclay can be very, very special. Admittedly those days had dried up but it appears they're returning. Aside from that it is a very, very exciting team.
I actually had an English friend who said that he thought the Six nations would be between England and Scotland based on that team and that we were one of only two Northern Hemisphere teams with a chance of making an impact at the World cup, coming from a guy who has not exactly been complimentary of Scotland in the past is quite a breakthrough, and I suspect a slightly misplaced opinion but we can dream.
Stop that type of talk now - DOOOOOMED I SAY
R!skysports- Posts : 3667
Join date : 2011-03-17
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
I know this is a ridiculous question, especially coming from a back, but why can't Ross Ford throw straight? Like every skill in rugby surely it's about practice (passing kicking etc should get better with time). Is he not putting in the hours? Is he fundamentally malcoordinated?
He's getting on now so surely he's had enough time to learn. If a forward could enlighten me then I'd be much appreciated.
He's getting on now so surely he's had enough time to learn. If a forward could enlighten me then I'd be much appreciated.
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Argentina: 15 Joaquín Tuculet, 14 Juan Imhoff, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Juan Martín Hernández, 11 Manuel Montero, 10 Nicolás Sánchez, 9 Martín Landajo,
8 Leonardo Senatore, 7 Javier Ortega Desio, 6 Rodrigo Báez, 5 Juan Cruz Guillemaín, 4 Tomás Lavanini, 3 Ramiro Herrera, 2 Agustín Creevy (c), 1 Marcos Ayerza,
Replacements: 16 Matías Cortese, 17 Lucas Noguera Paz, 18 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, 19 Lucas Ponce, 20 Facundo Isa, 21 Tomás Cubelli, 22 Santiago González Iglesias, 23 Horacio Agulla.
Strong looking back line. A few unfamiliar names in the forwards but expect them to be quality up front too to be honest.
8 Leonardo Senatore, 7 Javier Ortega Desio, 6 Rodrigo Báez, 5 Juan Cruz Guillemaín, 4 Tomás Lavanini, 3 Ramiro Herrera, 2 Agustín Creevy (c), 1 Marcos Ayerza,
Replacements: 16 Matías Cortese, 17 Lucas Noguera Paz, 18 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, 19 Lucas Ponce, 20 Facundo Isa, 21 Tomás Cubelli, 22 Santiago González Iglesias, 23 Horacio Agulla.
Strong looking back line. A few unfamiliar names in the forwards but expect them to be quality up front too to be honest.
Pat_Mustard- Posts : 601
Join date : 2011-06-21
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
madmaccas wrote:I know this is a ridiculous question, especially coming from a back, but why can't Ross Ford throw straight? Like every skill in rugby surely it's about practice (passing kicking etc should get better with time). Is he not putting in the hours? Is he fundamentally malcoordinated?
He's getting on now so surely he's had enough time to learn. If a forward could enlighten me then I'd be much appreciated.
I'm no forward, but my understanding is that our lineout problems haven't just been him throwing Squint, the drill just hasn't worked - he's thrown at the wrong time, jumpers have jumped at the wrong time or not at all.
Where Ford is often guilty is that when he loses confidence his throws become a bit 'limp' and he floats them, which makes it easy to steal.
RDW- Founder
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
madmaccas wrote:I know this is a ridiculous question, especially coming from a back, but why can't Ross Ford throw straight? Like every skill in rugby surely it's about practice (passing kicking etc should get better with time). Is he not putting in the hours? Is he fundamentally malcoordinated?
He's getting on now so surely he's had enough time to learn. If a forward could enlighten me then I'd be much appreciated.
I'm of the Father Dougal school on this one; "It's just mental, so it is Ted."
If you limited his throws to a 10 metre channel either side of the halfway line he would be a brilliant thrower. It's those pesky one on the 5 metre lines when the outcome of the match is in the balance: those are the ones he regularly gets wrong. I think we need to be looking at an alternative but have an awful feeling we won't.
jimbopip- Posts : 7306
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Wait just a minute!
Martin Landau is playing scrum half for the Argies?
Granted, he was fantastic in Space: 1999, but I'm sure his best days are behind him.
Martin Landau is playing scrum half for the Argies?
Granted, he was fantastic in Space: 1999, but I'm sure his best days are behind him.
IanBru- Posts : 2909
Join date : 2011-04-30
Age : 36
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
I am liking that team. Blair Cowen is the only real quibble. That set of backs is as good as it could be. Really pleased for Seymour and Russell Certainly picked on form
TJ- Posts : 8603
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Glasgow Twitter: There will now be 14 Warriors playing in Saturday's viagogo Autumn Test match against Argentina. Jim Hamilton is a sub instead of Swinson.
Nematode- Posts : 1681
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
I think that is also an attacki9ng team. That selection is not about damage limitation. Its about form and attack as well as getting these guys a bit more experience
TJ- Posts : 8603
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Starting backline looks pretty good, although henners would have been my choice at 9. Not seen any of Gloucester this season but apparently the wee man is playing well so hopefully he can get in quick and get his pass out before the Argentinian back row engulf him.
My main worries are 1 and 2. I have heard on the QT that the reason Ford doesnt hook well, indeed at all, is that he physically doesnt have the range of movement in his hips and lower back to effectively carry out the movement. Thus he is relying on the pack always getting the nudge to win the ball. Now that may be a feasible strategy against some teams. However when your loose head is the mobile but non destructive scrummager in the form of Al Dickinson and his opposite man is probably the best scrummaging tight head in the rugby championship, in the formidable shape of Herrera, it suddenly doesnt look so clever.
Oh and which member of the SRU has John Barclay done away with and buried under the patio to be overlooked for the reasonable, but no more than that, Blair Cowan? In his last days at Glasgow he deserved to be dropped as his form had deserted him but he is a man reborn at the Scarlets. Surely his all round game is better than Cowan's?
My main worries are 1 and 2. I have heard on the QT that the reason Ford doesnt hook well, indeed at all, is that he physically doesnt have the range of movement in his hips and lower back to effectively carry out the movement. Thus he is relying on the pack always getting the nudge to win the ball. Now that may be a feasible strategy against some teams. However when your loose head is the mobile but non destructive scrummager in the form of Al Dickinson and his opposite man is probably the best scrummaging tight head in the rugby championship, in the formidable shape of Herrera, it suddenly doesnt look so clever.
Oh and which member of the SRU has John Barclay done away with and buried under the patio to be overlooked for the reasonable, but no more than that, Blair Cowan? In his last days at Glasgow he deserved to be dropped as his form had deserted him but he is a man reborn at the Scarlets. Surely his all round game is better than Cowan's?
sensisball- Posts : 959
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
I remember seeing Barclay playing for Scarlets and to be honest his form has dropped. VC is right not to have picked him. I think he's in the realms of Stroker/Hamilton in that they are past their peak.
Nematode- Posts : 1681
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
I'm confused....everything so far has said swinson is on the bench, but Glasgow have actually tweeted saying it was an administrative error and it is actually Hamilton!
RDW- Founder
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Jim Hamilton on his twitter says he's playing so I think we can take it as he is. Seems odd though to get it so wrong.
Nematode- Posts : 1681
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Lets hope that we don't need to call on him too early.
He was a penalty liability for a while, and an almost guaranteed yellow card collector, but he seemed to behave himself on his last few appearances as I recall. I woild imagine if he blots his copybook with stupidity, then VC will just cut him loose.
Dunno why he's been taken ahead of Swinson, as Swinson Is better in the loose, a better tackler and ball carrier and a lot less likely to give away 3 points or a yellow.
He was a penalty liability for a while, and an almost guaranteed yellow card collector, but he seemed to behave himself on his last few appearances as I recall. I woild imagine if he blots his copybook with stupidity, then VC will just cut him loose.
Dunno why he's been taken ahead of Swinson, as Swinson Is better in the loose, a better tackler and ball carrier and a lot less likely to give away 3 points or a yellow.
Anglobraveheart- Posts : 525
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
So , it's official...Big Jim says he's playing...Big Jim plays.
jimbopip- Posts : 7306
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Maybe VC is worried about the lineout, and he'll bring on Hamilton to steady the ship if it is a complete mess
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
If Fern was worried about the lineout wouldn't he be better off selecting a hooker who could throw?
jimbopip- Posts : 7306
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
123456789 wrote:This day is a dark day for me, when Johnson was in charge I always felt on the verge of a call-up myself, this has been devastating.
I would liked to have seen Barclay at 7 as I don't rate Cowan much but Cotter clearly doesn't rate Barclay, Cowan seems to be selected because he's a New Zealander rather than on rugby ability and seems like the run of the mill, overrated mid table AP player whereas on his day Barclay can be very, very special. Admittedly those days had dried up but it appears they're returning. Aside from that it is a very, very exciting team.
I actually had an English friend who said that he thought the Six nations would be between England and Scotland based on that team and that we were one of only two Northern Hemisphere teams with a chance of making an impact at the World cup, coming from a guy who has not exactly been complimentary of Scotland in the past is quite a breakthrough, and I suspect a slightly misplaced opinion but we can dream.
I don't expect you to have watched much of London Irish play. For one they are never on TV anyway. However, Cowan has been selected because he is arguably the most in-form flanker in the Premiership. He out-performs every player he comes up against in the 7 shirt and has done for the entirety of the past two seasons. It may well be that he doesn't quite cut the mustard at international level, but to say he has only been selected because he is a New Zealander and that he is overrated is really far from the truth. If anything he is underrated at domestic level. I really hope he proves you wrong this weekend.
SirBurger- Posts : 1261
Join date : 2011-11-24
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
I really don't like Hamilton. He's also another constant when our lineout isn't functioning well. He was clearly at fault for a few of lost ones against Australia last year and it was only when JG came on that there was any improvement.
Last edited by des on Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:33 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo due to early start)
des- Posts : 288
Join date : 2013-09-20
Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
SirBurger wrote:123456789 wrote:This day is a dark day for me, when Johnson was in charge I always felt on the verge of a call-up myself, this has been devastating.
I would liked to have seen Barclay at 7 as I don't rate Cowan much but Cotter clearly doesn't rate Barclay, Cowan seems to be selected because he's a New Zealander rather than on rugby ability and seems like the run of the mill, overrated mid table AP player whereas on his day Barclay can be very, very special. Admittedly those days had dried up but it appears they're returning. Aside from that it is a very, very exciting team.
I actually had an English friend who said that he thought the Six nations would be between England and Scotland based on that team and that we were one of only two Northern Hemisphere teams with a chance of making an impact at the World cup, coming from a guy who has not exactly been complimentary of Scotland in the past is quite a breakthrough, and I suspect a slightly misplaced opinion but we can dream.
I don't expect you to have watched much of London Irish play. For one they are never on TV anyway. However, Cowan has been selected because he is arguably the most in-form flanker in the Premiership. He out-performs every player he comes up against in the 7 shirt and has done for the entirety of the past two seasons. It may well be that he doesn't quite cut the mustard at international level, but to say he has only been selected because he is a New Zealander and that he is overrated is really far from the truth. If anything he is underrated at domestic level. I really hope he proves you wrong this weekend.
Agreed, Cowan has been in outstanding form, best 7 in the premiership this season by a good distance. Think I saw somewhere he topped the stats for tackles and turn overs and was also very high up for carries. He is a very tough and abrasive 7 aswell which is good for scotland as there area few players who are a it too nice in the scotland pack.
His first cap for scotland wasn't the best but was much improved in the 2nd and I expect to him to be even more confident and bring his London Irish form to the scotland team.
Majestic83- Posts : 1580
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Re: Scotland v Argentina, 8 November
Has anyone seen the BBC advert for the match? Saw it last night, most of the footage they've used is of the Scotland rugby league team. Attention to detail not a strong point of the Beeb these days.
MacKnocked-on- Posts : 1274
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