Klitschkos Performance

I am not usually a fan of watching Klitschko box because his style is quite boring but I have to admit I was impressed by him last night. Pulev was ranked as the top contender to face Klitschko and he got beaten badly. One thing that surprised me was Klitschkos power. Yes he hits hard but it looks like he hits harder than we thought before. It didnt even look like he was putting much force into his shots but everytime they landed they had Pulev in all sorts of bother. Maybe Pulev has a glass jaw or maybe Klitschko hits harder than we realised?

I think Klitschkos performance last night puts in perspective how good Haye is. Klitschko dominated a top contender last night whereas against Haye he never came close to knocking him out or even landing any big punches. That highlights Haye deensive skills. I think its obvious now that Klitschko needs to rematch Haye asap. Haye is the ONLY heavyweight in the world with the attributes to beat Klitschko and the heavyweight division needs someone who can challenge Klitschko.

He never came close to knocking Haye out because Haye never risked engaging in a fight. I thought Haye's performance was pathetic before last night, I still think it was pathetic.

Pulev engaged, Haye froze. It's as simple as that.

If Haye's defensive masterclass was running and then throwing himself on the floor whenever they got close well then congratulations on not winning a round.

Wlad is loathe to box out of his comfort zone but if you bring pressure to him you're likely to be on the receiving end of some of those left hooks and straight rights rather than being jabbed to death. It was a great performance last night. Says nothing about David Haye though.

The anti-Haye negativity on here is quite depressing. I dont know why as a country we build up our top sportsmen and then just tear them down?

Haye did not freeze against Klitschko. If anything I think he was overconfident. His attitude and confidence in the build up he firmly believed he was going to beat Klitschko. One thing I agree with is that he didnt engage enough but that was down to getting the tactics wrong on the night which can happen. Haye has been desperately unlucky with injuries but now he has decided to go with a new trainer and I think this shows he is serious about rematching Klitschko and using a different plan. He needs to attack Klitschko more instead of trying to outbox him from a distance. Klitschkos weakness is his glass jaw and he boxes with a style to protect that. I think Haye will have learned a huge amount of experience fromt hat first fight and will know exactly what he has to do.

The division needs this rematch now as like I say, Haye is the only heavyweight on the planet with the tools to beat Klitschko. From Hayes perspective he needs redemption and from Klitschkos perspective it is the biggest fight out there for him.

I think a rematch would be a great fight because Haye would know he needs to take more risks and box more aggressivley. That means a higher risk of a knockout for both boxers. The way I see a rematch going is Haye boxes cautiously for the first round to lure Klitschko into thinking it will be just like the first. But in the second Haye to start launching more attacks and getting inside Klitschkos jab. Klitschkos tries to hold on and use his size. In the third round Haye stuns Klitschko with a right hand and Klitschko holds on again and starts to look uncomfortable but survives the round. In the fourth round Klitschko tries to use his size to bully Haye but gets caught again. This time Haye follows up with a barrage to send Klitschko to the floor. Klitschko is wobbled badly but beats the count and the ref gives him the benefit of the doubt. But Haye jumps on Klitschko quickly and unloads a series of bombs to force the ref to stop the fight.

How have you not realised Wlad is a massive puncher before now? He has absolutely starched just about anyone he's hit flush with a straight right hand, one of the biggest punchers in the divisions history.

hayemaker wrote:The anti-Haye negativity on here is quite depressing. I dont know why as a country we build up our top sportsmen and then just tear them down?

Haye did not freeze against Klitschko. If anything I think he was overconfident. His attitude and confidence in the build up he firmly believed he was going to beat Klitschko. One thing I agree with is that he didnt engage enough but that was down to getting the tactics wrong on the night which can happen. Haye has been desperately unlucky with injuries but now he has decided to go with a new trainer and I think this shows he is serious about rematching Klitschko and using a different plan. He needs to attack Klitschko more instead of trying to outbox him from a distance. Klitschkos weakness is his glass jaw and he boxes with a style to protect that. I think Haye will have learned a huge amount of experience fromt hat first fight and will know exactly what he has to do.

The division needs this rematch now as like I say, Haye is the only heavyweight on the planet with the tools to beat Klitschko. From Hayes perspective he needs redemption and from Klitschkos perspective it is the biggest fight out there for him.

I think a rematch would be a great fight because Haye would know he needs to take more risks and box more aggressivley. That means a higher risk of a knockout for both boxers. The way I see a rematch going is Haye boxes cautiously for the first round to lure Klitschko into thinking it will be just like the first. But in the second Haye to start launching more attacks and getting inside Klitschkos jab. Klitschkos tries to hold on and use his size. In the third round Haye stuns Klitschko with a right hand and Klitschko holds on again and starts to look uncomfortable but survives the round. In the fourth round Klitschko tries to use his size to bully Haye but gets caught again. This time Haye follows up with a barrage to send Klitschko to the floor. Klitschko is wobbled badly but beats the count and the ref gives him the benefit of the doubt. But Haye jumps on Klitschko quickly and unloads a series of bombs to force the ref to stop the fight.

That's a nice story.

The reason people were annoyed with Haye's performance was that with his attributes (speed, power in both hands) and style of fighting in bursts we expected or hoped to see him give the guy a serious challenge. When you take away all the hyperbole, all the severed head t shirts, what difference was there between Haye's performance and every other Eastern block tubby? They've all gone there, been happy to get jabbed into submission, taken their cheque and gone home.

I don't mind Haye and hoped he could do the business but let's not dress it up, it was an embarrassing performance made worse by all his promises and excuses. At least Pulev tried something different and landed some punches.

He just usually boxes, Manny Steward said he was a harder puncher than Lewis as did Phil Jackson so if he lets his hands go it's not really a surprise. He should have done the same to Povetkin, he floored a guy who had never been down including the amateurs with a turned over left from from a jab, massive power.

Strange how the power seems to hide away the moment he fights somebody that makes him crap himself, the sooner he gets knocked out the better so we don't have to put up with this Poopie any more.

Yea great so the division can be ruled by clowns like Fury and Wilder.

Makes no real difference does it really, you'd think the way you speak about him that he's the saviour of the division instead of a reason for it's demise.

He's a Ukrainian who is a fantastic boxer of course he won't get much exposure or credit, laughable last night with those two complete muppets commentating, people have been blurting out about Brewster for a decade, you either need to take a nigh on career ending beating or you lose.

He is of course, the savior of the division. Can you imagine an alternate reality where Arreola-types where passing alphabet soup titles?
#ThankYouWladimir

I hope he can unify now, i actually think Stiverne is by far the second best in the division so i think that would be a good fight then i hope he retires and as greats like Lewis and Holmes his legacy will grow.

He has said he wants to be like Hopkins. I don't think he'll go that long, but he'll probably be fighting past 40.

Did you not pick Haye to beat him HH? If you did and it is not my memory playing tricks on me surely you'd give him credit for beating (comfortably) someone you picked to beat him.

Jeff, I have never once backed against any British fighter not called Tyson Fury so taking my bias out the equation he gets a little bit of credit but not enough for me to consider him anything other than average.

Bravo to Wlad for discovering how to throw a left hook in what his 67th fight?

Did you pick Rhodes to beat Alvarez or Rees to beat Broner?

I did in fact pick Rhodes to beat Alvarez, the Rees fight I had no real interest in.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Jeff, I have never once backed against any British fighter not called Tyson Fury so taking my bias out the equation he gets a little bit of credit but not enough for me to consider him anything other than average.

Bravo to Wlad for discovering how to throw a left hook in what his 67th fight?

He has 12 KO's with his left hook.

I would guess you had no interest because you considered Rees to have no chance. You had interest in this and picked Haye to beat him, my initial point remains the same, if a fighter beats an opponent you did not predict him to beat you should be magnanimous enough to give him credit, doing it grudgingly or through gritted teeth justalez you look petty.

Hammersmith, Wladimir's left hook has been one of his best punches consistently throughout his career. He's ended fights with it before out of nowhere, such as against Austin, Chambers etc.

I'm being genuine now, mate - can you explain why in your opinion Wladimir is the reason for the division's demise? Is it his fault the rest of the chasing pack have been largely poor? Is he the first champion to have a less than thrilling style? I just don't see any reason for that kind of claim. He's been the only thing the division has had even close to an outstanding fighter in the past decade. I don't see how the division would have been better off without him.

88Chris05 wrote:Hammersmith, Wladimir's left hook has been one of his best punches consistently throughout his career. He's ended fights with it before out of nowhere, such as against Austin, Chambers etc.

I'm being genuine now, mate - can you explain why in your opinion Wladimir is the reason for the division's demise? Is it his fault the rest of the chasing pack have been largely poor? Is he the first champion to have a less than thrilling style? I just don't see any reason for that kind of claim. He's been the only thing the division has had even close to an outstanding fighter in the past decade. I don't see how the division would have been better off without him.

Come now Chris. Imagine Ibragimov-Povetkin for the WBA strap, with Pulev-Chisora fighting out for the IBF scrap ON THE SAME NIGHT! Would be a return the halcyon days.

It would be no worse than it is now, if Wlad was a Heavyweight champion to proud of and didn't have a drab monotonous reign of chump after chump then it would be different.

Silly me for forgetting Wlad letting his left hand go after 11 rounds of jab, jab, jab, hold and right hand against the brilliant Eddie Chambers.

It's a shame he wasn't more like Holmes or Ali with next to no power.

That's a good one Monty, when Wlad has three stoppage wins of the calibre of Liston, Frazier and Foreman i'll take that comment seriously until then knocking out crap isn't too impressive.

As for Holmes, well Wlad would love to have a jab that good or have half his talent in general.

I think hammy's just fed up that we've had a safety first champion who is clearly better than the alternative dross. I can see where he's coming from but it's hardly wlad's fault that no-one seems able to challenge him. The alternative would have been a 'pass the parcel' from chump to chump, which would have been more embarrassing but potentially I guess more interesting.

Anyway, as per the fight thread? Last night he came to fight, even if pulev's mummy impression gave him a static target.

He didn't really knockout any of them though, two of them quit and one fell down because of exhaustion. Neither could really fight inside and Ali was infamous for holding but they were American and fought back in the day so..

Are you honestly trying to compare Wlad to Holmes let alone Ali?

At the end of the day he stopped all three of them, Frazier was pulled out because of the sheer punishment he was taking and you have to ask yourself what made Foreman exhausted?

Lying on the ropes, holding behind his head, just the classic illegal tactics Wlad get's slated for all the time.

No, i'm not i'm comparing their relative inability to put away rubbish opponents, Holmes in particular avoided just about anyone who was decent.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It would be no worse than it is now, if Wlad was a Heavyweight champion to proud of and didn't have a drab monotonous reign of chump after chump then it would be different.

Silly me for forgetting Wlad letting his left hand go after 11 rounds of jab, jab, jab, hold and right hand against the brilliant Eddie Chambers.

Indeed, not a patch on smacking around a one legged Cleveland Williams

You now trying to repeat Truss' tired old line about Holmes; Norton, Shavers, Witherspoon, Weaver, Bonecrusher and Cooney were all very good fighters and all very good wins plus a darn sight better than Wlads opponents. Then there's the fact he wasn't knocked out three times by garbage.

Remind who it was he avoided, let me guess you're going to repeat the name of Greg Page?

It's not just the fact he avoided Greg Page, even fighting the likes of Witherspoon was basically a novice. He even gets away with fighting a blob like Leroy Jones, nevermind club fighters like Rodriguez and Cobb. Weaver was seen as a journeyman who had been knocked out close to ten times, Gerry Cooney was terrible except his massive left hook, Shavers also massive power but a rubbish boxer with a glass chin, Norton was the only top fighter he beat. I'm not even saying Wlad has better win's, he doesn't but when it comes to constantly facing his mandatory's and top contenders there's no comparison.

Brilliant assessment there, Cooney, Shavers, Weaver and Witherspoon were all rubbish but lets laud Wlad for beating the awesome Kubrat Pulev.

No, Witherspoon was a goodboxer but he was thrown in far to early and still i thought earned at least a draw. The other three huge punchers but otherwise, pretty rubbish. Klitschko's opposition isn't great but by no means was Holmes any better. Other than the fact they were American and it was back in the day..

That's where you're very wrong; Shavers, Cooney and Norton are significantly better than anything Wlad has faced and he wasn't getting knocked out by crap now was he.

Some very bitter people on here that just seem to want to bash boxers. Klitschko is a very good boxer and he proved that against Haye and last night he completely dominated the world number 1 ranked challenger. He deserves respect. And give Haye the respect he deserves too. When you look at how much Klitschko have dominated other challengers it shows the quality that Haye has that he could go an entire fight and take hardly any punishment. The heavyweight division needs a rematch between the two top heavyweights. It would be brilliant if Hearn could promote it and get it in Britain as it would sell out any stadium in the country.

hayemaker wrote:Some very bitter people on here that just seem to want to bash boxers. Klitschko is a very good boxer and he proved that against Haye and last night he completely dominated the world number 1 ranked challenger. He deserves respect. And give Haye the respect he deserves too. When you look at how much Klitschko have dominated other challengers it shows the quality that Haye has that he could go an entire fight and take hardly any punishment. The heavyweight division needs a rematch between the two top heavyweights. It would be brilliant if Hearn could promote it and get it in Britain as it would sell out any stadium in the country.

This is only slightly better than the "Chisora gave Vitali fits" argument I was subjected to two days ago

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That's where you're very wrong; Shavers, Cooney and Norton are significantly better than anything Wlad has faced and he wasn't getting knocked out by crap now was he.

It's not wrong, like i said Norton was very good, the other two not good at all, i mean if you are getting stopped by Ron Stander you can't be very good. Shavers couldn't box and if you could survive the first 3 or 4 rounds you would probably win, Cooney was terrible, he had an awesome left hook but he didn't use his right and was easy to hit. The main problem Wlad had early in his career was his punch output and aggressive style made him vulnerable if the guy could take a beating, Puritty and Brewster could and Holmes though not having much power was smart and would have boxed to an easy decision. That's the main difference now with Wlad, imo he would only have lost once if he had Manny from the start but that's just if's and buts.

I don't like wlads style. Holding his hands out straight in front as a buffer. The ascetics of it I can't help comparing to boxing kangaroos. But it's effect and its keeps his head out of harms way, coupled with his hugging ability and his hammer hands he still looks unbeatable. But  unbeatable with a caveat. Someone with equal size and a ramrod jab would mess him up. Wilder and fury the two hyped young pretenders don't have those abilities.

To be honest I think Wlad is just doomed to be forever written off by some people simply because there isn't a top American heavyweight for him to beat. Even if he beat the 2nd coming of Joe Louis in 2 rounds he still wouldn't be given any credit if they had an eastern European name he would just be written off as another bum.

Pulev was made to order for Klitschko. I wouldnt read too much into that performance, although it was one of Klitschkos better ones. Stiverne is also totally made to order for Klitschko. They are awful.

The only remotely interesting fights available are Wilder and Fury.

Wlads not better than Holmes or Ali. I'm a Wlad fan and I obviously would never claim that.

on saying that both men wouldn't have all their own way with him. Wlad is definitely above average its ignorance to say otherwise. If Wlad is average then Haye is absolute rubbish because there was a gulf in class.

I understand his safety first tactics are not pretty but they are effective. Why should he brawl when every man and his dog know he has chin issues. If Khan takes the same approach he could become near unbeatable too.

Boxing is sport and entertainment but winning is winning and Wlad is doing a great job of it.

He's way above average, Wlad would be the best opposition Holmes ever fought.

Apart from you know Mike Tyson and Adam i'm sorry but Ali would have made him look like a fool.

Problem with fighting is, like Vitali said, is that no one does it, but everyone is an expert. It's not like football, where basically everyone has played it, and has a rough idea of the skill level needed to score a goal like Agüero's a week or so ago. We honestly don't even understand the pain of trying to breathe while fighting with a cracked rib, or fighting blind because of blood pouring into your eye.

So instead, every boxer who doesn't dance his way out of a telephone booth is rank.

The heavyweights are rank, that is for sure

I'd probably make Holmes favorite but he would have to dig deep. Holmes was great but he gets too much credit. Same guys that give him credit for longevity slag Wlad.

People claim Holmes is unlucky to follow Ali, fair enough but imo he is lucky Tyson wasn't around a half a dozen years earlier or we wouldn't be discussing him at all. I understand it is blasphemy to pick Tyson to beat anyone but I think he would of knocked Larry the f..k out.

Good prediction

I love the classic; 'he's lucky Boxer A wasn't around 6 years earlier', not being funny Adam but you think everyone other than Wlad gets too much credit. Holmes doesn't get a massive amount of credit in contrast to many, it's just that he has less negatives than most Heavyweights.

I don't think his longevity gets brought up that often, it's usually his classic against Norton and an almighty show of recuperation against Shavers (who was anything but rubbish.

Tyson may well have knocked him out, their actual fight suggests he had the power to do so but by that point Holmes' legs had gone, he knew what he needed to do but his body wasn't co-operating.

Holmes has better wins than Wlad and I would pick him to beat Wlad. Imo its a tough fight though. Wlad has mastered a style that makes it hard for a pure boxer to beat him.

I definitely do pick Tyson to beat Holmes, that's a Kevin Rooney trained and motivated Tyson. Tough fight but think Tyson late ko.