When will the Klitschkos Retire?

The two brothers have been arond for ages now it seems and lets be honest now that Haye has retired the division will go back to being very boring. Dont get me wrong I think the Klichkos are quality but you have to admit the division is not exciting and they are boring to watch and boring to listen to. Imo the division needs another spark of life but where will that come from? Like Haye said the division is full of bums at the moment guys like Mormeck who lets not forget got knocked out by David Haye are fighting for a world title he will have no chance and will get knocked out. I reckon there are good prospects in Britain like Fury, Price and Perez but will they fight the Klichkos before they retire? The two brothers are getting old now and there are no big fights in the division not many people want to see their fights now that Haye has retired so can anyone see them retiring soon? If we are lucky they could retire in 1 or 2 years that would be perfect coz guys like Price, Fury, Perez and Hellenius would be coming through and fighting for world titles I think this would make the division far more exciting and who knows maybe in America there could be some good heavyweights by then and the division could really get going. Maybe Haye would think of coming back and we could see him in with guys like Fury fighting for world titles that would be quality! Some say it is not the Klichkos fault but you have to admit the division is boring with them in it and they set up rubbish fights tbh I think most people are hoping they will just retire soon.

Waingro wrote:The two brothers have been arond for ages now it seems and lets be honest now that Haye has retired the division will go back to being very boring.

Yes because Haye's time at heavyweight has been a white knuckle ride of thrills and spills. Missus has had to delete the Harrison and Valuev fights off my sky planner after the heart attacks they have commonly induced in me.

Vitali 2 years, Wlad about 4 I reckon. Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko.

Learn to spell Scott.

Vitali probably has two fights more left in him at the most - and has admitted as much himself. I think he'll crush another couple of hopelessly overmatched Europeans in 2012 before stepping down and letting Wladimir 'have his reign', so to speak.

I see Wladimir carrying on for another three or four years, to be honest, and somewhere along the line I'd expect to see another fight against a Brit, most likely Fury. I think Wladimir has a genuine like for Britain and would love the chance to boost his profile over here even more than he already has done in the past few months. Right now, there is nobody who can touch him and once Vitali is gone he'll be desperate to get his hands on the WBC strap; all four of the 'major' belts at once is a legacy mark which doesn't come easy in modern boxing. As long as he's winning with ease (and the Mormeck fight will be another example of that) and can sell out 50,000-capacity arenas in doing so, I think he'll be around until at least 2014-2015.

Huh?

Scottrf wrote:Huh?

Klitschko, school boy error.

rowley wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Huh?

Klitschko, school boy error.

That's what I wrote. On the Ketamine early for the Stone Roses concert?

rowley wrote:

Waingro wrote:The two brothers have been arond for ages now it seems and lets be honest now that Haye has retired the division will go back to being very boring.

Yes because Haye's time at heavyweight has been a white knuckle ride of thrills and spills. Missus has had to delete the Harrison and Valuev fights off my sky planner after the heart attacks they have commonly induced in me.

Fair enough mate I admit those fights were not great to watch but you have to admit the build ups were very exciting and got people talking everywhere most people could not wait for the fights and the pubs showing it were packed! This is what the heavweight division is lacking imo nobody cares about the Klichkos fights the build ups are rubbish (entrances are good I admit) but there is no interest there.

Also think you are being a bit harsh on Haye it is not his fault Audley Harrison was too scared to fight imo he is to blame for that he only threw 1 punch and looked like he was about to cry. The crowd booed him out of the arena and called him a disgrace even Hatton said he was a joke! Lets remember that Haye also injured his hand against Valuev so could not throw big punches but he stil nearly knocked him out at the end maybe if he didnt hurt his hand he would have knocked him out earlier.

I was actually mocking Waingro for his continued inability to spell it correctly, obviously didn't work as well as would be hoped.

88Chris05 wrote:Vitali probably has two fights more left in him at the most - and has admitted as much himself. I think he'll crush another couple of hopelessly overmatched Europeans in 2012 before stepping down and letting Wladimir 'have his reign', so to speak.

I see Wladimir carrying on for another three or four years, to be honest, and somewhere along the line I'd expect to see another fight against a Brit, most likely Fury. I think Wladimir has a genuine like for Britain and would love the chance to boost his profile over here even more than he already has done in the past few months. Right now, there is nobody who can touch him and once Vitali is gone he'll be desperate to get his hands on the WBC strap; all four of the 'major' belts at once is a legacy mark which doesn't come easy in modern boxing. As long as he's winning with ease (and the Mormeck fight will be another example of that) and can sell out 50,000-capacity arenas in doing so, I think he'll be around until at least 2014-2015.

I think Vitali is fighting Arreola in America next which is another poor fight imo he has destroyed him once already just shows how pointless it is at the moment. Like him or hate him I think Haye was right about the Klichkos and the state of the division it is very poor and no one is interested in it, specially now he is retiring. Vitali should have given him a match imo lets be honest what has Arreola done to deserve a remtch he is worse than Haye

Waingro wrote:

rowley wrote:

Waingro wrote:The two brothers have been arond for ages now it seems and lets be honest now that Haye has retired the division will go back to being very boring.

Yes because Haye's time at heavyweight has been a white knuckle ride of thrills and spills. Missus has had to delete the Harrison and Valuev fights off my sky planner after the heart attacks they have commonly induced in me.

Fair enough mate I admit those fights were not great to watch but you have to admit the build ups were very exciting and got people talking everywhere most people could not wait for the fights and the pubs showing it were packed! This is what the heavweight division is lacking imo nobody cares about the Klichkos fights the build ups are rubbish (entrances are good I admit) but there is no interest there.

Also think you are being a bit harsh on Haye it is not his fault Audley Harrison was too scared to fight imo he is to blame for that he only threw 1 punch and looked like he was about to cry. The crowd booed him out of the arena and called him a disgrace even Hatton said he was a joke! Lets remember that Haye also injured his hand against Valuev so could not throw big punches but he stil nearly knocked him out at the end maybe if he didnt hurt his hand he would have knocked him out earlier.

Each to their own, always prefered fights to build ups. Am not at all being harsh on Haye re Audley, he had no need to take the fight as nobody was demanding it and Harrison was not his mandatory. When a fighter who has never shown and aggression or mettle is matched with the most talented fighter he has ever fought and then performs even more passively than he has ever done before this is not a shock at all and Haye has to shoulder some of the blame for agreeing to the fight in the first place. Injured against Valuev, injured against Wlad, he is unlucky isn't he.

To label the Klitschkos ' boring ' doesn't tell the complete story, in my opinion.

Fair to say that their styles were never going to generate the excitement of a Tyson, Foreman or Ali, but the real problem, in my opinion, has been that they have been the ultimate professionals in a division otherwise made up of fat boys and pretenders. The lack of quality fights is directly attributable to the fact that very few other heavyweights have shown the slightest resolve to get in shape and sharpen their skills to mount a serious challenge.

Haye, of course, was always in shape, but he has been exposed as the great pretender who lacked the fundamentals to negate Wlad's strengths. Simple truth is that, like it or not, the Klitschkos have been head and shoulders above anybody else.

If the future of the heavyweight division rests on the shoulders of Fury, Hellenius, etc., then Heaven help us.

Wladimir (Vladimir if the fight is in America) vs Arreola and Vitali vs Haye would have definitely looked better than Wlad-Mormeck and Vitali-Arreola II.

rowley wrote:I was actually mocking Waingro for his continued inability to spell it correctly, obviously didn't work as well as would be hoped.

It did work jeff. I got the joke straight away. I think Scott is tired this morning.

Arreola is Vitalis mandatory I think. He has to fight him again.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

rowley wrote:I was actually mocking Waingro for his continued inability to spell it correctly, obviously didn't work as well as would be hoped.

It did work jeff. I got the joke straight away. I think Scott is tired this morning.

Thanks Tina, realise when one has the kind of rapier wit I have become noted for some people struggle to keep up but nice to know they are the exception rather than the norm.

manos de piedra wrote:Arreola is Vitalis mandatory I think. He has to fight him again.

They can be postponed if you so wish.

Waingro wrote:Fair enough mate I admit those fights were not great to watch but you have to admit the build ups were very exciting and got people talking everywhere most people could not wait for the fights and the pubs showing it were packed! This is what the heavweight division is lacking imo nobody cares about the Klichkos fights the build ups are rubbish (entrances are good I admit) but there is no interest there.

Also think you are being a bit harsh on Haye it is not his fault Audley Harrison was too scared to fight imo he is to blame for that he only threw 1 punch and looked like he was about to cry. The crowd booed him out of the arena and called him a disgrace even Hatton said he was a joke! Lets remember that Haye also injured his hand against Valuev so could not throw big punches but he stil nearly knocked him out at the end maybe if he didnt hurt his hand he would have knocked him out earlier.

What the Heavyweight division 'needs?' If this 'needed' pre-fight excitement results in farces such as Haye-Harrison or damp squibs like Haye-Klitschko, then I think I'll pass on it thanks, regardless of whether it's needed or not.

True, it wasn't Haye's fault that Harrison performed so pathetically in their bout. However, it was Haye's fault that he chose to defend his world title against a man who wasn't even ranked within the top five Heavyweights in his own country, never mind the world, and who had conspired to lose to a taxi driver posing as a part-time boxer less than two years previously.

Haye's Cruiserweight career is to be admired, particularly the Fragomeni and Mormeck fights. But at Heavyweight? He talked a good one, sure, but how anyone can still claim that he even half backed up his promise to reinvigorate the division is beyond me. Aside from the early rounds against Ruiz, absolutely nothing about Haye's career at Heavyweight excited me at all.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:It did work jeff. I got the joke straight away. I think Scott is tired this morning.

Paranoid. Lost confidence in my spelling momentarily and didn't look it up.

Waingro wrote:

rowley wrote:

Waingro wrote:The two brothers have been arond for ages now it seems and lets be honest now that Haye has retired the division will go back to being very boring.

Yes because Haye's time at heavyweight has been a white knuckle ride of thrills and spills. Missus has had to delete the Harrison and Valuev fights off my sky planner after the heart attacks they have commonly induced in me.

Fair enough mate I admit those fights were not great to watch but you have to admit the build ups were very exciting and got people talking everywhere most people could not wait for the fights and the pubs showing it were packed! This is what the heavweight division is lacking imo nobody cares about the Klichkos fights the build ups are rubbish (entrances are good I admit) but there is no interest there.

Also think you are being a bit harsh on Haye it is not his fault Audley Harrison was too scared to fight imo he is to blame for that he only threw 1 punch and looked like he was about to cry. The crowd booed him out of the arena and called him a disgrace even Hatton said he was a joke! Lets remember that Haye also injured his hand against Valuev so could not throw big punches but he stil nearly knocked him out at the end maybe if he didnt hurt his hand he would have knocked him out earlier.

I'll agree with the first paragraph on despite the fights not living up to the talk at least the talk before hand brought some semblance of interest back to the Heavy scene.

The second paragraph just looks like a list of excuses for Haye, everyone knew Audley's modus operandi prior to the fight of being afraid of throwing a punch in case one came back and in the face of a big puncher like Haye would most likely be a combination of a tortoise and a deer come fight night. Its hard to believe Haye didn't know this as well and that's before you come to the fact Audley had done nothing to warrant being anywhere near a title fight. Yes Audley reverted to form on fight night but despite this Haye was just as cautious and against a guy throwing only one punch you'd think you'd have him out of there sooner than the third, Haye was hardly throwing bombs around for those three rounds though personally I never expected him to its not his style. The hand injury excuse is just laughable.

Scottrf wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Arreola is Vitalis mandatory I think. He has to fight him again.

They can be postponed if you so wish.

So can retirements

Waingro wrote:Some say it is not the Klichkos fault but you have to admit the division is boring with them in it and they set up rubbish fights tbh I think most people are hoping they will just retire soon.

What do you expect the Klitchkos to do? Not fight at all because the current crop of HW are rubbish?

I doubt the division would be any better without them in it.

talkingpickle wrote:

Waingro wrote:Some say it is not the Klichkos fault but you have to admit the division is boring with them in it and they set up rubbish fights tbh I think most people are hoping they will just retire soon.

What do you expect the Klitchkos to do? Not fight at all because the current crop of HW are rubbish?

I doubt the division would be any better without them in it.

Quite the opposite I'd imagine. 2 fat blokes fighting, if I wanted to see that could go watch some low grade football hooligans have a pop at each other on a Saturday afternoon.

Dont get me wrong I am not saying Price or Fury will be all time greats, but my point is that the division will be so much more exciting. Cleverly and Bellew ae not greats but the fight was good to watch and the build up was also good this is what I would like to see in the heavyweight division. The Klichkos are quality, no point denying that, but like Haye said the division is boring. Maybe Fury or Price will not be as good as Klichko but when the Klichkos are gone there will be good fights that will be interesting to watch and wont be one sided. Think about it if the Klichkos retired in a couple of years then Fury could win a world title. Haye would still be young and can you imagin how good it would it would be to see him come back and challenge smelike Fury for a title and how good the build up would be? That would be an exciting fight! But if the Klichkos are still there then chances are Haye would stay retired and Fury might not be champion the division would just be like it is now boring and nobody caring about it.

I don't think the klitschkos are especially boring, particularly not vitali. I think you're confusing them being boring with them being so much better than the competition that they make each fight look easy and one sided. That's not their fault. The division may only be exciting once they retire because it'll be more of a level playing field in their absence, but that clearly means the quality has worsened without them.

Vitali will probably have hung them up within a year, he'll want to allow an opening for wlad to get the WBC belt, plus he's 40 now and has slowed down and had injury troubles. Wlad could be here for another 5 years though, he's a fine athlete who lives the right way, doesn't ship much punishment so usnt shopworn, and as well as wanting to be the undisputed champ no doubt, he'll probably want to beat some up and comers to seal his legacy. He's already given haye a lesson, but you have fury and price who could be potential big(ish) fights for him - a fight against a Brit is always gonna generate interest and income for him over here. Sorry to disappoint but I don't see wlad going anywhere soon.

HumanWindmill wrote:Simple truth is that, like it or not, the Klitschkos have been head and shoulders above anybody else.

More often than not, quite literally. In a division stacked with fat boys and blown-up guys from lighter divisions it does make me wonder why people-and by 'people' I refer to the up-and-comers and the contenders-haven't put two and two together and realised that being in good shape like the Klitbots-great shape in Wladimir's case-is a major factor in their success. Yes, they're huge which means they're usually the bigger guy in the ring but if for example Tyson Fury were to train better and achieve the kind of physique and athleticism of either K-Bro that would in my opinion go some significant way towards improving his chances.

I'm not saying he'd beat either one and I know that skills and fundamentals play a huge role but being a fat sweaty sack of cack is only ever going to have a negative impact.

Think I have to also take issue with the idea that if you take out the only two guys who display anything even approaching class or ability the division suddenly becomes better solely because we may see some close fights. This is the blue ribbon division of the sport with guys competing for what is meant to be the greatest prize in sport. The idea of a bunch of fat lazy guys of no commitment and talent to match swapping the title held by the likes of Louis, Ali, Dempsey and Johnson based on who has managed to stay out of KFC longest in training makes me want to puke.

trottb wrote:

talkingpickle wrote:

Waingro wrote:Some say it is not the Klichkos fault but you have to admit the division is boring with them in it and they set up rubbish fights tbh I think most people are hoping they will just retire soon.

What do you expect the Klitchkos to do? Not fight at all because the current crop of HW are rubbish?

I doubt the division would be any better without them in it.

Quite the opposite I'd imagine. 2 fat blokes fighting, if I wanted to see that could go watch some low grade football hooligans have a pop at each other on a Saturday afternoon.

Or just pop down to Dale Farm today!

I think people are missing my point I am not saying the quality in the division will be better if the klichkos retire I admit it will probably be worse but it will be more exciting overall is this not what people would prefer to see?

Which is better the klichkos just being their boring selves with no exciting build ups and pointless matches or for new champs in the division and exciting fights that could go either way?

Waingro wrote:I think people are missing my point I am not saying the quality in the division will be better if the klichkos retire I admit it will probably be worse but it will be more exciting overall is this not what people would prefer to see?

Which is better the klichkos just being their boring selves with no exciting build ups and pointless matches or for new champs in the division and exciting fights that could go either way?

Would it be more exciting? Surely we have the same fights but not for titles, and the guys that couldn't be champion now would be.

Waingro wrote:

Which is better the klichkos just being their boring selves with no exciting build ups and pointless matches or for new champs in the division and exciting fights that could go either way?

The former is better, whether you consider them exciting or not is beside the point for me, they have some ability and class, this is the greatest prize in sport. Much rather see it held by such folk than a bunch of fat wastes of space for whom the sole thing they appear to have in their credit is they are no better than each other.

Waingro wrote:Think about it if the Klichkos retired in a couple of years then Fury could win a world title. Haye would still be young and can you imagin how good it would it would be to see him come back and challenge smelike Fury for a title and how good the build up would be? That would be an exciting fight! But if the Klichkos are still there then chances are Haye would stay retired and Fury might not be champion the division would just be like it is now boring and nobody caring about it.

If i was a fighter i would want to fight the best and prove myself. The only way see a fighter improving is through hard training and fighting the best and learning from your mistakes. Its up to the opposition to step it up, not the champions to step down.

As for Haye... he should be remembered for his cruiserweight career. His HW career was a bit of a farce to be honest.

Not if the excitement at supposed world level is based on such a pathetic standard of fighter.

Take Fury v Chisora which while being enjoyable in some areas to watch it was also so poor in many others. A good bad fight as its known, it would have been a disgrace if either had picked up a world title belt after that.

Waingro wrote:I think people are missing my point I am not saying the quality in the division will be better if the klichkos retire I admit it will probably be worse but it will be more exciting overall is this not what people would prefer to see?

Which is better the klichkos just being their boring selves with no exciting build ups and pointless matches or for new champs in the division and exciting fights that could go either way?

I can understand why you want them to retire to make the division more exciting, but if im paying to see a world title fight i want to be watching the elite, exciting or not.

Waingro, why are you so sure that Heavyweight title fights would be so much more exciting with the Klitschkos gone? You keep talking about how fighters would be more evenly matched, hence more exciting bouts. In theory that's fine, but just because two fighters are evenly matched, it's not a guarantee that a fight will be any more exciting than the one-sided hammering Vitali have Adamek a few weeks back.

Rather than being equally matched, I fear that, without the Klitschkos, it would simply be a case of two fighters contesting the title being equally awful. Sprott-Skelton back in 2007 was a fight where the two of them were 'equally matched' but it was one of the most horrendous fights I've ever had the misfortune to watch - and that was a world title eliminator, no less.

If there was a glut of talented youngsters out there currently a level or so below the brothers but ready to step up to the elite, then maybe I'd see your point about wanting to hurry the Klitschkos in to retirement. But there isn't. Right now, Wladimir and Vitali are the only shreds of credibility left north of 200 lb. I don't believe for a single second that Heavyweight fights will become more entertaining once they've gone, and while it's an inconvenient one perhaps, the truth is that right now, the Heavyweight division needs the Klitschkos.

Waingro wrote:I think people are missing my point I am not saying the quality in the division will be better if the klichkos retire I admit it will probably be worse but it will be more exciting overall is this not what people would prefer to see?

Which is better the klichkos just being their boring selves with no exciting build ups and pointless matches or for new champs in the division and exciting fights that could go either way?

I think I can safely say that it will be a cold day in hell before I ever get a point you're trying to make Waingro.

It would be like blind folding people before putting them in the ring. Interesting for a time or two, but fairly pointless. If the talent isn't there, the matches may be close, but not particularly exciting. A Fury / Chisora rematch would be exciting to me, but would leave 99% of the worldwide boxing population stone cold. At least the Klitschkos are known widely and recognised as quality. The debate with them is exactly where in the boxing pantheon they are, not whether they should be there. When they retire, unless there is quality coming through, then the division will be the poorer for it.

Tbh I think if the Klichkos retire the division will become more exciting there will not be as many one sided fights and there will be lots of fighters that are in with a chance of winning a title? At the moment who is there that has a chance? Maybe we could say Fury, Price or Perez in a few years and I reckon Haye would still have a chance if he came back and had a shot at Vitali but I cant see anyone else tbh. Mormeck or Arreola? These guys will get absolutely destroyed imo trust me it will not be close. Lets be honest who wants to see this?

Waingro wrote:Mormeck or Arreola? These guys will get absolutely destroyed imo trust me it will not be close. Lets be honest who wants to see this?

I'm being honest - I'd want to see Vitali-Arreola and Wladimir-Mormeck fghting for the titles a hell of a lot more than I'd want to see Fury-Perez, Mitchell-Adamek and Helenius-Chisora fighting for them.

Would a better scenario not be that one of the chasing pack such as Haye or the others put in some graft, had a number of fights and actually got themselves into the condition and ability level to actually get the brothers out of second gear. Maybe if someone did this we may see some competitve fights in the division.

88Chris05 wrote: for the titles a hell of a lot more than I'd want to see Fury-Perez, Mitchell-Adamek and Helenius-Chisora fighting for them.

To quote Paul Calf, i'd rather see Dave Lee Travis play Macbeth.

rowley wrote:Would a better scenario not be that one of the chasing pack such as Haye or the others put in some graft, had a number of fights and actually got themselves into the condition and ability level to actually get the brothers out of second gear. Maybe if someone did this we may see some competitve fights in the division.

Think you are being a bit harsh on Haye mate he was in great condition for the fight he is always in shape I think the tactics were wrong though and you have to give klichko credit for being very good on the night.

Great condition? Come off it, Waingro! Haye was in awful shape for the Wladimir fight - didn't you see the state of his toe? It's a shame, because if he'd have bothered to get in to shape (toes and all), he'd have won, obviously...

Waingro wrote:Tbh I think if the Klichkos retire the division will become more exciting there will not be as many one sided fights and there will be lots of fighters that are in with a chance of winning a title? At the moment who is there that has a chance? Maybe we could say Fury, Price or Perez in a few years and I reckon Haye would still have a chance if he came back and had a shot at Vitali but I cant see anyone else tbh. Mormeck or Arreola? These guys will get absolutely destroyed imo trust me it will not be close. Lets be honest who wants to see this?

Id rather win knowing id beaten the best.

I want to see an upset, someone to step up and take the title from them. I know there isnt anyone out there at the moment who appears to be able to do that i admit. IMO I think it would be detrimental to the division if they retire.

Waingro wrote:

rowley wrote:Would a better scenario not be that one of the chasing pack such as Haye or the others put in some graft, had a number of fights and actually got themselves into the condition and ability level to actually get the brothers out of second gear. Maybe if someone did this we may see some competitve fights in the division.

Think you are being a bit harsh on Haye mate he was in great condition for the fight he is always in shape I think the tactics were wrong though and you have to give klichko credit for being very good on the night.

Apart from a broken toe you mean!! I hate to say it, but I agree with Rowley on this one. It is up to the rest of the pack to come up to the Bros standards

Waingro was not commenting on Haye's condition but I do think his technique is sadly lacking, and so it goes for the division, if someone has technique they have no conditioning and vice versa, is it too much to ask someone would put a bit of graft in so they could perhaps have both at the same time?

bhb001 wrote: I hate to say it, but I agree with Rowley on this one. It is up to the rest of the pack to come up to the Bros standards

Shouldn't hate to agree with me mate, it makes you look bright.

88Chris05 wrote:Great condition? Come off it, Waingro! Haye was in awful shape for the Wladimir fight - didn't you see the state of his toe? It's a shame, because if he'd have bothered to get in to shape (toes and all), he'd have won, obviously...

Lol the toe excuse was a bit embarrassing I admit wearing flip flops to the press confrance but apart from that he was in great shape. I think his tactics were wrong but I also think klichko is quality but tbh I dont think there is ayone out there that has more chance of beating them than Haye at th moment which is why its a shame to see him retire.

rowley wrote:Waingro was not commenting on Haye's condition but I do think his technique is sadly lacking, and so it goes for the division, if someone has technique they have no conditioning and vice versa, is it too much to ask someone would put a bit of graft in so they could perhaps have both at the same time?

Not sure abouts Hayes technique mate tbh I think hes quality but lets not forget how much bigger klichko is to him i also think his tactics were wrong this is why i would like to see a rematch I reckon Haye would have a better chance