Scotland 6N lookahead

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Fixtures

07/02 France V Scotland - 17:00
15/02 Scotland V Wales - 15:00

28/02 Scotland V Italy - 14:30

14/03 England V Scotland - 17:00
21/03 Scotland V Ireland - 14:30


6N standings last 10 years

2014 - 5th, 1 win
2013 - 3rd, 2 wins
2012 - 6th, 0 wins
2011 - 5th, 1 win
2010 - 5th, 1 win
2009 - 5th, 1 win
2008 - 5th, 1 win
2007 - 6th, 1 win
2006 - 3rd, 3 wins
2005 - 5th, 1 win

Squad

FORWARDS: Hugh Blake (Edinburgh Rugby), Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan, Geoff Cross (both London Irish), David Denton, Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Castres), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Jim Hamilton (Saracens), Rob Harley, Euan Murray, Gordon Reid (all Glasgow Warriors), Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Ben Toolis, Hamish Watson (both Edinburgh Rugby), Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors).

BACKS: Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar, (Glasgow Warriors) Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby), Stuart Hogg, Peter Horne (both Glasgow Warriors) Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester), Sean Lamont, Sean Maitland, Henry Pyrgos, Finn Russell (all Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors), Greig Tonks, Tim Visser (both Edinburgh Rugby).

Unavailable through injury: Adam Ashe (neck), Chris Fusaro (ankle), Grant Gilchrist (arm), Tyrone Holmes (face), Ruaridh Jackson (knee), Duncan Taylor (hamstring), Duncan Weir (arm).

I genuinely hope the guy goes ahead and has a long successful career for Scotland, My problem is that he hasn't earned his Squad call up by any stretch of the imagination. Earning a call up for the Scotland Squad for The Northern Hemisphere's premier competition should be the pinnacle, something to earn and take pride in. This guy has not earned the right to be anywhere close to the 6 nation's this year.
If Barclay is the past and Blake is the future surely Roddy Grant should have taken that spot in the Squad to recognize the ability and consistency he has shown even if it's just for one year. International rugby has to retain certain standards and expectation's or Rugby Union will lose part of the thing that makes it special.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Nematode wrote:

- I don't think Blake deserves to be in the squad just yet but his highlight reel is encouraging: http://www.esportif.net/hugh-blake/ >action video

solid if not spectacular highlights reel, and worth noting none of it was at Super Rugby level!

He's no Mike Penn

Imagine what Barclay's highlight reel would look like, against proper sides as well!!

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Imagine what Barclay's highlight reel would look like, against proper sides as well!!

Since you asked:



Makes it even more unbelievable to be honest.

I wish I hadn't seen that. I wonder how the other players feel about not having the best players in the squad?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Actually, he doesn't appear to have any Super Rugby caps...

i
He doesn't, only ever made the highlanders wider training squad. Most of his rugby was for for otago in the itm who had a couple of poor seasons.

Nematode wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Imagine what Barclay's highlight reel would look like, against proper sides as well!!

Since you asked:



Makes it even more unbelievable to be honest.

Great highlights reel, he's a great player for sure. Love the end in that vid.

IMHO, battle hardened Mr Barclay - due to immense current form - should be in the squad in place of young Pube Lake. With the latter training with the squad throughout the 6N.

I must say I have confidence in VC, so I don't really mind his selection. I find it all rather exiting these days with fresh, young prospects in the international setup, rather than says of old when looking at a squad announcement was depressing enough to create a little black cloud that followed each and every Scotland supporter around until the end of that year's 6N.

Some key points from this morning's press:

Stuart Hogg is in, and should be available for the championship opener against France after missing recent Glasgow matches with hamstring damage.

Having selected only two stand-offs and two hookers, Cotter expects to add two or three more players to his squad over the next fortnight, with Beattie a contender should he opt to augment the back row.

On Hugh Blake:

“He gives us something a little bit different to what John [Barclay] does. He gives us a bit more speed, more turnovers and the way we want the team to head towards we need speed, we need initiative, we need to be able to tackle, to be able to change the course of games.

“If we look at Ben Toolis’ stats, he’s the best ball-carrying, line-breaking lock we have. He made 14 carries and 19 tackles last weekend, which is exceptional for a lock, and he’s very good at lineout.

Glasgow forwards Ryan Wilson and Ryan Grant, who are currently involved in court proceedings, have been omitted, but Cotter could draft them in later. “They’re out for the moment. They are innocent until proved guilty, but they have a lot on their plate at the moment. They might come in.

Funny because Hoggy gave an intervies to the Hootsmon saying that he hopes he'll be back for France but really has no idea if that's an option.

Nice to have the Barclay thing cleared up. Vern thinks that Blake is a younger, faster, more Kiwi version of Barclay. It's that simple.

This is from December, but seems to suggest that Blake is potentially only here short term, which I vaguely remember the chat about being a good thing as it's a trial if you like, but it does either answer or create more questions.  

If this lad is highly rated and we want to poach him and tie him down to a longer term deal then this makes some sense (I still don't think it's the right thing to do) or alternatively, if he's only here short term and doesn't kick on then he's not going to be in the Scotland side for long, so this is potentially a waste.  

Also Solomans seems to think he has super rugby experience as well.  Either Scott Johnson has convinced everyone of this (he brokered the deal) or he genuinely has, and no one aside from Cotter & Solomans has seen this.

Bill Lothian - Evening News wrote:Edinburgh Rugby today confirmed that Scots qualified Otago flanker Hugh Blake is being taken on board.

As well as confirming what the Evening News revealed on November 17, the regional outfit also put out the welcome mat for a Scots qualified stand-off.

Jade Te Rure will, like Blake, be attached initially for “three or four months” according to a statement issued on behalf of Edinburgh.

Blake, 22, was a member of the New Zealand side at the under-20 World Cup in France. He qualifies for Scotland through grandparents, one of whom is from Edinburgh.

Te Ruri, 21, joins from Manawatu. He has a grandmother from Edinburgh.

Head coach Alan Solomons said: “Hugh is a promising young openside flanker who already has experience of Super Rugby. We’re pleased to have him here and I have no doubt that he will give a good account of himself.

“Jade played an integral part in Manawatu’s recent ITM Cup success. He’s a talented player and a good goal kicker and I look forward to seeing him in action.”

Blake told the Otago Daily Times last month that his initial short-term central contract at Murrayfield was brokered through Scotland’s director of rugby.

“I did it all through Scott Johnson,” he said of a move that will lead to both players being assessed for a Scotland Test future with Edinburgh Rugby as a conduit

Link to this story

IanBru wrote:I'm curious - have the SRU announced any A team fixtures this year? I don't remember having heard anything on the TwitterFaceBloggoNet.

There are no A fixtures planned.

John Barclay has updated his twitter profile to ex-international.

Didn't know Blake had played for Glasgow, he played 40 minutes for the A team against the u20s last week....

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Didn't know Blake had played for Glasgow, he played 40 minutes for the A team against the u20s last week....

Ah good that solves everything then - he'll now be world class!

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:John Barclay has updated his twitter profile to ex-international

Again, not a sensible thing to do. does he not want to play for Scotland again, does he think that the people that matter will not notice it? Playing the victim card is not going to get him very far.

there was always going to be some questions on selection and I suppose that is right.

Bringing in young new guys is ok, and might be the right idea - we can only guess at this time

the one I can not fathom is Brown vs Strokosch

Both 6's-
but
one a much better 6
one can play 7 and 8 to a good standard
one is playing top flight rugby regularly
one is playing in a top team in top flight rugby
One is playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby
One is in form and playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby
One is competing in the top European competition in form and playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby

One is selected - one is not

It's this sense of entitlement that has pervaded the fringes of this Scotland team for years and I have absolutely no time for it.

If I am not better than my competition, then I lose my job. Why should it be any different for professional rugby players? That's what being 'professional' really means - being magnanimous like Kelly Brown and accepting that that you are the public face of national sport - not bleating like a teenager who has been dropped from his U18s first XV. It's an attitude - nothing to do with the fact that someone now pays you to spend all day increasing your personal best on the bench press machine.

Worth stressing again - none of this is Blake's fault. I don't know how much game time with the Highlanders he ever had, but the fact remains that at 22 he was actively involved in a Kiwi Super Rugby training and support regime and received very positive reviews in the Kiwi press. The kid must be able to play a bit and if it means that Edinburgh need to do without Coman People's Epic Leadership so that we can see him over the next few months, then everyone seems to be a winner.

What is done is done now. Let's get behind the team and pray that Bennett, Hogg and Harley are all in reasonable shape for at least most of the tournament.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Didn't know Blake had played for Glasgow, he played 40 minutes for the A team against the u20s last week....

Ah good that solves everything then - he'll now be world class!

Certainly confirms his pedigree!

George Carlin wrote:It's this sense of entitlement that has pervaded the fringes of this Scotland team for years and I have absolutely no time for it.

If I am not better than my competition, then I lose my job. Why should it be any different for professional rugby players? That's what being 'professional' really means - being magnanimous like Kelly Brown and accepting that that you are the public face of national sport - not bleating like a teenager who has been dropped from his U18s first XV. It's an attitude - nothing to do with the fact that someone now pays you to spend all day increasing your personal best on the bench press machine.

Worth stressing again - none of this is Blake's fault. I don't know how much game time with the Highlanders he ever had, but the fact remains that at 22 he was actively involved in a Kiwi Super Rugby training and support regime and received very positive reviews in the Kiwi press. The kid must be able to play a bit and if it means that Edinburgh need to do without Coman People's Epic Leadership so that we can see him over the next few months, then everyone seems to be a winner.

What is done is done now. Let's get behind the team and pray that Bennett, Hogg and Harley are all in reasonable shape for at least most of the tournament.

It shouldn't. The best players should be picked, that's the whole point.

I am pleased to hear some justification from Cotter, but he's really putting his reputation as a selector on the line. Surely it would have been better to see Blake in action in an Edinburgh jersey before making this call?? Problem is Solomons clearly thinks both Grant and Watson are better, so someone is off the mark.

Anyway, what's done is done and Cotter has explained the selection. I strongly disagree with it, but time will tell. In the meantime, fingers crossed for those players fighting to be fit. I don't want Strokosch at 6 and Maitland at 15 against France.

BigGee wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:John Barclay has updated his twitter profile to ex-international

Again, not a sensible thing to do. does he not want to play for Scotland again, does he think that the people that matter will not notice it? Playing the victim card is not going to get him very far.

Agree its not that smart, although its not anything that is too permanent though. Hogg did similar things last year when he appeared to be wanting to leave. When the SRU had the audacity to ask him to honor his contract he removed all mentions of Glasgow etc. A few months later he signed a new two year deal.

It also shows that Barclay actually cares and wants to be picked. Sure, Brown was far more dignified in dealing with it, but I don't actually mind players with a bit of attitude and niggle.

We don't want 15 wallflowers, just the best players available.

[quote="funnyExiledScot"]

George Carlin wrote:I am pleased to hear some justification from Cotter, but he's really putting his reputation as a selector on the line. Surely it would have been better to see Blake in action in an Edinburgh jersey before making this call?? Problem is Solomons clearly thinks both Grant and Watson are better, so someone is off the mark.

Anyway, what's done is done and Cotter has explained the selection. I strongly disagree with it, but time will tell. In the meantime, fingers crossed for those players fighting to be fit. I don't want Strokosch at 6 and Maitland at 15 against France.

To be fair we don't really know what Solomons thinks about who is best. Blake injured himself in his first run out for the A team and is only just back to fitness, so there has not really been any chance to compare. Roddy G has been a solid player in a poor Edinburgh side for many years now, but has never really shown international class. Not many players really make that step up at his stage in their careers, so I am not surprised he has not been picked. Watson, who would no doubt have nailed down the Edinburgh shirt this year if not for his injury, is the real form pick. He is also young and has hunger and potential on his side. Unfortunately for Roddy, I don't think he was ever in the mix.

funnyExiledScot wrote:It also shows that Barclay actually cares and wants to be picked. Sure, Brown was far more dignified in dealing with it, but I don't actually mind players with a bit of attitude and niggle.

We don't want 15 wallflowers, just the best players available.

Agreed we do not want wallflowers, but we don't want prima donnas either.

To do it once with the original tweet (subsequently removed), I can just about get, though I still think it was foolish for an experience international like JB. To then do it again the next day is just daft. 'Ex International' could very easily be interpreted as not wishing to be considered again. I don't know if he does mean that or not but at the very least it smacks of petulance and is very unbecoming.

Hogg was silly last year as well. He at least had the 'when I was young and foolish' excuse, which you can only really use the once and did have the grace to come clean and admit his folly at a later date. JB is a mature professional man and I am afraid that the same rules don't apply to him.

Riskysports wrote:there was always going to be some questions on selection and I suppose that is right.

Bringing in young new guys is ok, and might be the right idea - we can only guess at this time

the one I can not fathom is Brown vs Strokosch

Both 6's-
but
one a much better 6
one can play 7 and 8 to a good standard
one is playing top flight rugby regularly
one is playing in a top team in top flight rugby
One is playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby
One is in form and playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby
One is competing in the top European competition in form and playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby

One is selected - one is not

Browns failing is probably he's what we were calling a 6.5 a couple of years ago. Can play 6, 7 and 8.

The 6 that Cotter wants to fit into his tactics is the Strokosh / Harley mold. The get up and tackle repeatedly and being a pain at defensive breakdown slowing ball down and providing strength at attacking breakdown. Limited in other assets but doing the job set out. Bit more a Dan Lydiate than a Sam Warburton. Having this type of player gives a bit more freedom to someone like Richie Gray to not always be at every breakdown.

This was probably the reason that Brown was tested at 7 last season to see if he'd fit into the tactics Cotter was setting out. Whether it was Brown or Cotter (i don't believe this was fully Johnsons decisions) who decided that it didn't work is unknown.

Watch the film Moneyball. It provides insight into the workings of top sports. The player you think is best doesn't always provide the best stats to fit the tactics .

Blake being included is a bit strange but understand the exclusion of Barclay.

Moneyball is about baseball. Fantastic film, but I don't think it adds one smidge of insight as to why Johnson and now Cotter are ignoring Brown and Barclay. With Johnson it was clearly personal, and he's a clown anyway. With Cotter it does sound tactical, although his description of Blake does sound rather like Barclay (in terms of winning turnovers and getting around the park). From the highlight reel, which is all I've seen of Blake, he looks like a less good version of Ross Rennie.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Moneyball is about baseball. Fantastic film, but I don't think it adds one smidge of insight as to why Johnson and now Cotter are ignoring Brown and Barclay.

I didn't mention Barclay!

What you see as an untrained person (doesn't mean to be an insult) in real time will be different to what's being analysed days after the game. All this information is recorded and replayed over and over.

Moneyball. If you've seen the film, the bit with the scouts round the table they are talking about this player and that player to sign - all big, proven names. The coach fell out with the scouts and picked players that did the specific job he was after. Different sport with different stats and tactics but the premise of picking a player to do a specific job is still there.

Each position will have stats they'll be measured on. Interesting that DTH van Merve has tackle completion rate in the 70%s but Maitland is in the 90%s. But then on the other hand DTH has a higher scoring record than Maitland - who do you play?

cp10 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Moneyball is about baseball. Fantastic film, but I don't think it adds one smidge of insight as to why Johnson and now Cotter are ignoring Brown and Barclay.

I didn't mention Barclay!

What you see as an untrained person (doesn't mean to be an insult) in real time will be different to what's being analysed days after the game. All this information is recorded and replayed over and over.

Moneyball. If you've seen the film, the bit with the scouts round the table they are talking about this player and that player to sign - all big, proven names. The coach fell out with the scouts and picked players that did the specific job he was after. Different sport with different stats and tactics but the premise of picking a player to do a specific job is still there.

Each position will have stats they'll be measured on. Interesting that DTH van Merve has tackle completion rate in the 70%s but Maitland is in the 90%s. But then on the other hand DTH has a higher scoring record than Maitland - who do you play?

Or Brown. It's the same point really is it not??

I love the film, I really do. The problem I have is that I don't think Brown is particularly different to Strokosch. He just does what Strokosch does in the tackle (better and more effectively) and then some (i.e. he's a better carrier and breakdown man). I've been a huge fan of Strokosch over the years. Tough as old boots and in the summer tour to SA a couple of season back he was outstanding. But he's been playing at a lower level ever since, and nowhere near the level of Brown. Again, hard to talk authoritatively about Blake as he hasn't played top level rugby. But Cotter is looking for a 7 to win turnovers, play with ball in hand and make a difference. I wonder whether he's watched John Barclay play??

Stats do have an important role to play though, particularly in the pack. Extracting work rate from your front row whilst not sacrificing the set piece is where the game has been going for some time, and without the stats it is difficult to accurately figure out contribution levels. But where stats let you down in rugby is that they measure one tackle as the same as another. There's no means within the statistical environment of measuring the effectiveness of a tackle, or the importance of one. Great rugby players are in the right place at the right time, and when they enter the ruck or make a tackle, it isn't just about a number, it's about impact and achieving the goal of that action (whether it be to turn the ball over, slow it down or deliberately infringe to sacrifice 3 rather than 7 points). That insight comes from watching rugby rather than analysing stats, which is why rugby doesn't so easily lend itself to the "Moneyball" approach.

I'm a big cricket fan and there's a sport that could certainly fit within a similar sort of structure (in fact cricket has long before baseball been a hugely statistical sport).

funnyExiledScot wrote:He just does what Strokosch does in the tackle (better and more effectively) and then some (i.e. he's a better carrier and breakdown man).

Is that your expert professional opinion? Have you poured over the videos for hours looking at the replays on how the breakdown works? Comparing how Brown tackles compares to Harley/Strokosh? How they then spoil the ball depending on how they fall once the tackle has been completed? How many seconds they delay the oppo scrum half from getting the ball away? How they disrupt a breakdown? How they speed up an attacking breakdown? How long it takes to get to an attacking breakdown?

Brown is a top premiership player and works with the tactics that Saracens set out as they have the right players for the positions they want. Cotter has different tactics so has a different idea of how he wants his 6 to perform. The "dark arts" as Mike Blair put it. Cotter doesn't want them for their attacking skills that Brown has that's not their job. Speed and effectiveness at a breakdown is how you win a rugby game.

Rugby teams and unions wouldn't employ a team of video analysts if they weren't getting the information/stats they wanted. All comes down to stats, its not how we want rugby to be played but that's the professional game.

Now the dust is settling....It's good to see Cotter explaining his Blake decision in more detail. Comments re Moneyball above all seem valid and fit the bill here.

I agree with BigGee that Barclay is coming across a bit petulant here. I know he has been frozen out for a while and it probably hurts but the difference between his reaction and Brown's seems key.

I would like to think these guys can (and already have) had lengthy discussions with VC in which VC lays out the reasons why their game isn't quite suited to his plans. If there are aspects (turnovers, general rucking etc) that he wants to see more from them then this can be discussed and the guys can take that back to their clubs and look to improve, then come back in 6 months and show Vern that they have added/strengthened that particular string to their bow to suit Scotlands game plan more.
Being passive aggressive will not go unnoticed.

I still feel Brown in particular is desperately unlucky here. I feel he does offer more than Strokosch generally but what's done is done. Let's be honest the rest of the squad is pretty perfect, with the few tough/surprising calls going the way of the form guy in VC's eyes (Cusiter/SHC, Toolis/Swinson etc), which is what we have all wanted for years.

I think everyone (myself included) would be a lot happier with his choices if Scott Johnson was no longer around. We all wanted a clean break, new man making the calls etc. Even if some of the calls were the same like in Brown's case - at least we would know it is because Cotter himself made it. With SJ still in the wings it gives you that real doubt his influence is still significant in squad selection, and brings up that bubbling seething resentment of last year.

We have SJ and he does seem to be making an honest and decent fist of his DOR post so far. I just feel he should be more detached from the International coaching set up for the time being, at least until most of us finish our course of counselling sessions brought on by last years 6 nations.

Of course it's my opinion, and no, I am not an professional rugby analyst.

Have I poured over hours of rugby footage? Yes. Have I watched Brown and Strokosch play for a number of years? Yes. Do I see Brown as an "attacking" blindside unable to fulfil, or less skilled than Strokosch in, the "dark arts"? Absolutely not. Brown's role at Sarries is to tackle his ass off and attack each and every breakdown. He's their workhorse, which seem to be exactly the same role fulfilled by Strokosch, only better. Do you honestly believe that Strokosch is quicker to the breakdown than Brown???

What your stats also won't tell you is that Strokosch is playing second tier rugby in France. His stats, whatever they are, will be distorted by that. Brown is playing at the highest level of club rugby in Europe, far far closer to international level. He's playing well also.

Final point to make is that you seem to suggest that we simply accept all selections because Cotter/Johnson/Robinson/Hadden have video analysts and must surely know more than we do. Rather defeats the point of 606v2 which is to debate these very matters.

cp10 wrote:

Riskysports wrote:there was always going to be some questions on selection and I suppose that is right.

Bringing in young new guys is ok, and might be the right idea - we can only guess at this time

the one I can not fathom is Brown vs Strokosch

Both 6's-
but
one a much better 6
one can play 7 and 8 to a good standard
one is playing top flight rugby regularly
one is playing in a top team in top flight rugby
One is playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby
One is in form and playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby
One is competing in the top European competition in form and playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby

One is selected - one is not

Browns failing is probably he's what we were calling a 6.5 a couple of years ago. Can play 6, 7 and 8.

The 6 that Cotter wants to fit into his tactics is the Strokosh / Harley mold. The get up and tackle repeatedly and being a pain at defensive breakdown slowing ball down and providing strength at attacking breakdown. Limited in other assets but doing the job set out. Bit more a Dan Lydiate than a Sam Warburton. Having this type of player gives a bit more freedom to someone like Richie Gray to not always be at every breakdown.

This was probably the reason that Brown was tested at 7 last season to see if he'd fit into the tactics Cotter was setting out. Whether it was Brown or Cotter (i don't believe this was fully Johnsons decisions) who decided that it didn't work is unknown.

Watch the film Moneyball. It provides insight into the workings of top sports. The player you think is best doesn't always provide the best stats to fit the tactics .

Blake being included is a bit strange but understand the exclusion of Barclay.

I find that amusing because Brown does make an awful lot of tackles. Brown is primarily a 6.

According to the stats last year in the HC he made 87 tackles and missed 0. 2nd highest

http://www.rugbydump.com/2014/05/3749/closing-montage-from-the-last-ever-heineken-cup-plus-tournament-stats

6 nations 2013 - 2nd highest tackle count after Robshaw with 69 compared to 70.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Final point to make is that you seem to suggest that we simply accept all selections because Cotter/Johnson/Robinson/Hadden have video analysts and must surely know more than we do. Rather defeats the point of 606v2 which is to debate these very matters.

They still have to come up with the tactics and I do think they pay too much attention to some stats rather than "heads up rugby". Solomons is an extreme of that with Townsend the opposite. But Scotland through the late 90s and 2000s weren't producing the players due structures and coaching to play that game so fall back on stats rugby. Hadden (3rd 6 nations) and Johnson (3rd 6 nations) first years played good winning rugby but reverted to stats type once they were sussed out.

beshocked wrote:

cp10 wrote:

Riskysports wrote:there was always going to be some questions on selection and I suppose that is right.

Bringing in young new guys is ok, and might be the right idea - we can only guess at this time

the one I can not fathom is Brown vs Strokosch

Both 6's-
but
one a much better 6
one can play 7 and 8 to a good standard
one is playing top flight rugby regularly
one is playing in a top team in top flight rugby
One is playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby
One is in form and playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby
One is competing in the top European competition in form and playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby

One is selected - one is not

Browns failing is probably he's what we were calling a 6.5 a couple of years ago. Can play 6, 7 and 8.

The 6 that Cotter wants to fit into his tactics is the Strokosh / Harley mold. The get up and tackle repeatedly and being a pain at defensive breakdown slowing ball down and providing strength at attacking breakdown. Limited in other assets but doing the job set out. Bit more a Dan Lydiate than a Sam Warburton. Having this type of player gives a bit more freedom to someone like Richie Gray to not always be at every breakdown.

This was probably the reason that Brown was tested at 7 last season to see if he'd fit into the tactics Cotter was setting out. Whether it was Brown or Cotter (i don't believe this was fully Johnsons decisions) who decided that it didn't work is unknown.

Watch the film Moneyball. It provides insight into the workings of top sports. The player you think is best doesn't always provide the best stats to fit the tactics .

Blake being included is a bit strange but understand the exclusion of Barclay.

I find that amusing because Brown does make an awful lot of tackles. Brown is primarily a 6.

According to the stats last year in the HC he made 87 tackles and missed 0. 2nd highest

http://www.rugbydump.com/2014/05/3749/closing-montage-from-the-last-ever-heineken-cup-plus-tournament-stats

6 nations 2013 - 2nd highest tackle count after Robshaw with 69 compared to 70.

I don't think its tackle count. More breakdown effectivness. I'm sure Al Dickinson was Scotlands top tackler in one of the AIs not a 6. That's why they were asking Brown to play 7.

He suits Sarries but not Cotters plan.

cp10 wrote:

beshocked wrote:

cp10 wrote:

Riskysports wrote:there was always going to be some questions on selection and I suppose that is right.

Bringing in young new guys is ok, and might be the right idea - we can only guess at this time

the one I can not fathom is Brown vs Strokosch

Both 6's-
but
one a much better 6
one can play 7 and 8 to a good standard
one is playing top flight rugby regularly
one is playing in a top team in top flight rugby
One is playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby
One is in form and playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby
One is competing in the top European competition in form and playing as captain in a top team in top flight rugby

One is selected - one is not

Browns failing is probably he's what we were calling a 6.5 a couple of years ago. Can play 6, 7 and 8.

The 6 that Cotter wants to fit into his tactics is the Strokosh / Harley mold. The get up and tackle repeatedly and being a pain at defensive breakdown slowing ball down and providing strength at attacking breakdown. Limited in other assets but doing the job set out. Bit more a Dan Lydiate than a Sam Warburton. Having this type of player gives a bit more freedom to someone like Richie Gray to not always be at every breakdown.

This was probably the reason that Brown was tested at 7 last season to see if he'd fit into the tactics Cotter was setting out. Whether it was Brown or Cotter (i don't believe this was fully Johnsons decisions) who decided that it didn't work is unknown.

Watch the film Moneyball. It provides insight into the workings of top sports. The player you think is best doesn't always provide the best stats to fit the tactics .

Blake being included is a bit strange but understand the exclusion of Barclay.

I find that amusing because Brown does make an awful lot of tackles. Brown is primarily a 6.

According to the stats last year in the HC he made 87 tackles and missed 0. 2nd highest

http://www.rugbydump.com/2014/05/3749/closing-montage-from-the-last-ever-heineken-cup-plus-tournament-stats

6 nations 2013 - 2nd highest tackle count after Robshaw with 69 compared to 70.

I don't think its tackle count. More breakdown effectivness. I'm sure Al Dickinson was Scotlands top tackler in one of the AIs not a 6. That's why they were asking Brown to play 7.

He suits Sarries but not Cotters plan.

He may do, buy i can not fathom any plan or any tactic where Strokei is a better choice than Brown....

Having now digested these selections I feel a little more calm today. I felt deeply aggrieved for Barclay and Cusiter in particular, but in the end we must trust the man at the top. There has to be method to his madness.

I'm sure we've all played in teams with destructive personalities. As a coach I've had to drop players, and on one occasion ask them to leave permanently, because their negative effect on the team is not offset enough by their relative skill. It's pure conjecture, but this may well be the case with Barclay.

I have heard from a fair few people who know him that he's a bit of an arrogant a**e. Now imagine, let's say, that he engages in a bit of bullying or 'ribbing' of younger players, whispers doubt planting seeds of sedition against the coaches and takes his place in the team for granted. Whilst we may have to play a 7 who is 10% poorer in his place, the 10% spike in moral across the full XV adds up to an extra 150%. I'd rather a team full of honest grafters pulling together than a team of superstar t0ssers.

This may well be the case with Stroker. Kelly Brown seems like a lovely bloke but Al may be better at pulling in the younger guys. All of these things are impossible for us to assess from the outside.

Moving on from the Barclay/Brown debate for now, I'm disappointed to hear about the lack of A team game.  Taking into account players not picked, and those unlikely to make the Test 23, we could maybe have seen:

1 Sutherland
2 McArthur
3 Cusack
4 Swinson
5 Toolis
6 Low
7 Blake
8 Wilson

9 Kennedy
10 Heathcoat
11 Brown
12 Horne
13 Vernon
14 Fife
15 Cuthbert

Gives some youngsters a chance at representative level, and allows the fringe players of the main squad (McArther, Swinson, Toolis, Horne, Fife) to stake their claim.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Moving on from the Barclay/Brown debate for now, I'm disappointed to hear about the lack of A team game.  Taking into account players not picked, and those unlikely to make the Test 23, we could maybe have seen:

1 Sutherland
2 McArthur
3 Cusack
4 Swinson
5 Toolis
6 Low
7 Blake
8 Wilson

9 Kennedy
10 Heathcoat
11 Brown
12 Horne
13 Vernon
14 Fife
15 Cuthbert

Gives some youngsters a chance at representative level, and allows the fringe players of the main squad (McArther, Swinson, Toolis, Horne, Fife) to stake their claim.

Are there no A games this season at all? Last few seasons we've played England and Ireland, both very useful games which players have come through to the main squad/team.

Someone said earlier in the thread that there are no games, and there's been no mention of it from the SRU.

There was a press release a few months ago saying what the venues would be for all the under 20s / club internationals etc. If I find it it should say if there are A games...

cp10, really enjoying your input here. It's good to have a different slant on things. In which vein...
Has Kellybrows been dropped because he's too good?

What I mean by that is....
It seems pretty clear that Rob Harley is exactly what Jamesie Cotter wants in a 6. Now we could argue for hours over who is the best 6 available but we probably would all agree that Rob Harley is by some distance the best at playing that specific role. i.e. he's the best Rob Harley we have. So, if we have chosen a style of play and certain players seem to be automatic choices then surely the other players in the squad are there for injury cover. Now a player earning a living in D2 would probably have no trouble accepting he's second choice. Whereas a deposed captain and outstanding player who is starring in one of the top teams in Europe might find that a little difficult. Also, if you have seen Kellybrows leading the singing in the dressing room after Sarries last match it is obvious he is a big personality. Can you have such a big personality, such a good player on the fringes of things? I think he has to be an integral part of the process or not there at all.
Jamesie Cotter has shown us something of his philosophy of rugby. A Rob Harley type 6, and if you can't do what I want there's no place for you. A younger hungrier John Barclay type of 7.
I've got a felling that if Rob Harley doesn't return to form and fitness sharpish and young Blake doesn't turn out to be the love child of Ritchie McCaw and Michael Jones then Cotter's tenure may be quite turbulent.

I suppose the best thing to do would be to ask a Sarries fan if they would trade Al Strokosch for Kelly Brown.

That answer should tell you all you need to know.

Beshocked?

Looks like there's no A games:

Scotland representative fixture calendar:
Friday 6 February, 7.30pm
Scotland Club XV v Ireland Club XV | Old Anniesland
Adults £12, Under-18s go FREE

Friday 13 February, 6pm
Scotland Under-20 v Wales Under-20 | 6 Nations Championship
Netherdale
Adults £10, over 60s £5, Under-18s go FREE

Saturday 14 February, 5pm
Scotland Women v Wales Women | 6 Nations Championship
Broadwood Stadium
Adult tickets £5, Under-18s go FREE

Friday 27 February, 7.30pm
Scotland under-20 v Italy under-20 | 6 Nations Championship
Netherdale
Adults £10, over 60s £5, Under-18s go FREE

Sunday 1 March, 1pm
Scotland Women v Italy Women | 6 Nations Championship
Broadwood Stadium
Adults £5, Under-18s go FREE

Friday 20 March, 7.30pm
Scotland under-20 v Ireland under-20 | 6 Nations Championship
Netherdale
Adults £10, over 60s £5, Under-18s go FREE

Saturday 21 March, 11am
Scotland under-18 v Ireland Schools
Mayfield, Dundee
FREE to attend

Sunday 22 March, 1pm
Scotland Women v Ireland Women | 6 Nations Championship
Broadwood Stadium
Adults £5, Under-18s go FREE

Shame to see them charging so much - or indeed charging at all - for these games. Not going to get much of a crowd for the Club International if it is £12 to get in!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I suppose the best thing to do would be to ask a Sarries fan if they would trade Al Strokosch for Kelly Brown.

That answer should tell you all you need to know.

Beshocked?

As a rounded player Kelly Brown is by far the better player. But he doesn't fit Cotters forward pack jigsaw.

I always saw Strockosh as a short second row. Limited in skill but effective at hitting rucks. And that's what you get from him. Rob Harley is a pretty similar player but better and 3 inches taller.

cp10 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I suppose the best thing to do would be to ask a Sarries fan if they would trade Al Strokosch for Kelly Brown.

That answer should tell you all you need to know.

Beshocked?

As a rounded player Kelly Brown is by far the better player. But he doesn't fit Cotters forward pack jigsaw.

I always saw Strockosh as a short second row. Limited in skill but effective at hitting rucks. And that's what you get from him. Rob Harley is a pretty similar player but better and 3 inches taller.

Maybe its the hair. If you can't have a ginger mop then a shining bald head will just have to do

lostinwales wrote:

cp10 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I suppose the best thing to do would be to ask a Sarries fan if they would trade Al Strokosch for Kelly Brown.

That answer should tell you all you need to know.

Beshocked?

As a rounded player Kelly Brown is by far the better player. But he doesn't fit Cotters forward pack jigsaw.

I always saw Strockosh as a short second row. Limited in skill but effective at hitting rucks. And that's what you get from him. Rob Harley is a pretty similar player but better and 3 inches taller.

Maybe its the hair. If you can't have a ginger mop then a shining bald head will just have to do

Its the eyebrowns (See what I did there)

Well concerns about Blake's match sharpness and readiness for International rugby look to be addressed - he should be turning out for Melrose against Heriots on Saturday!

He's not in Edinburgh European squad.

A very dignified tweet from Chris Cusiter this afternoon, along the lines of KB's. Says he is disappointed to miss out but wishes the team well. His international career may be far from over. He is one injury away from a call up and surely will be included in a wider training squad pre WC. I am sure he will answer the call if needed.

That's good to hear brown and cusiter are taking the news well. Barclay shouldn't be writing/posting the things he is, injuries in six nations are inevitable and he could find himself called up. Saying that, the SRU or Cotter should be contacting these guys and letting them know what's going on straight up. Not fair to keep them in the dark.

Regarding strockosh, I think on his day he is a very good player. He was a wrecking ball vs aus when we won away in the cyclone weather. But I have no idea of his recent form. I think he's very good at the breakdown though and I understand his inclusion. I'm certain SJ rates him.

If there's no A games, perhaps we'll see Blake on bench vs Italy?

bsando wrote:That's good to hear brown and cusiter are taking the news well. Barclay shouldn't be writing/posting the things he is, injuries in six nations are inevitable and he could find himself called up. Saying that, the SRU or Cotter should be contacting these guys and letting them know what's going on straight up. Not fair to keep them in the dark.

Regarding strockosh, I think on his day he is a very good player. He was a wrecking ball vs aus when we won away in the cyclone weather. But I have no idea of his recent form. I think he's very good at the breakdown though and I understand his inclusion. I'm certain SJ rates him.

If there's no A games, perhaps we'll see Blake on bench vs Italy?

Stroker was very good on the mad summer tour and can put in a brick wall shift defensively, which is what Vern wants. Who knows what kind of shape he is in. That's what training camps are for. If the big baldy is blowing out of his arse after a cardio session, it will show.

Incidentally, who are Vern's assistant coaches?

Hodge is attack coach and we've got that Humphries guy as forwards coach.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well concerns about Blake's match sharpness and readiness for International rugby look to be addressed - he should be turning out for Melrose against Heriots on Saturday!

He's not in Edinburgh European squad.

Let's put a positive spin on this, when Scotland were last a consistently competitive team the players were turning out for the likes of Melrose and Heriots etc so this must (hopefully) be an omen...

RDW_Scotland wrote:Hodge is attack coach and we've got that Humphries guy as forwards coach.

Matt Taylor defence coach too.