Wales vs the Boks

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Wales v South Africa
29 November 2014
KO: 14:30
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)

****
Another week of misery for us Welshmen. What a shame, so much to be proud of vs the ABs but the scoreline does not reflect that.

These boys have shown they can push SA and it would be good to take something from this Autumn Series though I doubt many of expect we will.

Will be missing some good players who have to return to their clubs. So will SA.

We also have a good number of worrying injuries. Not sure if the team announcement will be Tuesday or not...?


The boks fielded a few experimental selections last Saturday against Italy in a weakened team. I imagine they will change a few players around and we will see a side similar to that which beat England.

Bullsbok wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Given the injuries Wales have and the players that are not avalible foe SA due to returning to their clubs, retirement,injuries then this should be the game that Wales DO win.

The only real loss is Habana from the starting lineup . Losing Jannie could end up being a blessing if anything. The man is a walking yellow, no need to give the laser guided Halfpenny more guaranteed penalties than we need to

Bulls,

Don't be so mean I think we will need all the penalties we can get as we haven't really looked like scoring that many.

We will win this one.

If Phillips doesn't play.

I'm cautiously optimistic

If Phillips doesn't play

I think we will take it and win it well, not in a high score just see a controlled game.

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I think we will take it and win it well, not in a high score just see a controlled game.

I'll only believe it's true when the final whistle has gone and i've checked a few sources just to check the BBC had the score right....

I think I will just assume Wales are going to lose until 80+ minutes from now on, it will save a lot of stress and frustration.

I always think that too, but the way they play in some games always give me the belief they're going to win!

wales606 wrote:

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:I think we will take it and win it well, not in a high score just see a controlled game.

I'll only believe it's true when the final whistle has gone and i've checked a few sources just to check the BBC had the score right....

I think I will just assume Wales are going to lose until 80+ minutes from now on, it will save a lot of stress and frustration.

606,

I agree I am that way inclined now it saves getting hope up then cruelly dashed away again

So Rob Howley the Welst attack coach (yes we have one apparently) reckons despite the game getting away from us that Saturdays game was one of the best seen at the MS in the past decade for skill set and intensity.

Bloke needs certifying

We were laughing here (NOT at Wales!) but my family were collected and we turned over to catch the Welsh game.  We saw the score and we said 'Wales are in this!' - and almost instantly, I mean comically instantly, New Zealand opened up for the beginning of that end period.

So we got a bloody shock but it must have been an even bigger shock to those who witnessed the first half of the game, which seems to have been a classic.  Obviously I didn't see it but looking at Jamie Roberts (he looked the most shattered and exhausted physically I think I've ever seen him) I did get the hint that it must have been some first half!

SecretFly wrote:We were laughing here (NOT at Wales!) but my family were collected and we turned over to catch the Welsh game.  We saw the score and we said 'Wales are in this!' - and almost instantly, I mean comically instantly, New Zealand opened up for the beginning of that end period.

So we got a bloody shock but it must have been an even bigger shock to those who witnessed the first half of the game, which seems to have been a classic.  Obviously I didn't see it but looking at Jamie Roberts (he looked the most shattered and exhausted physically I think I've ever seen him) I did get the hint that it must have been some first half!

Fly,

It was a cracking game and the atmosphere in the MS was one of the best I have witnessed for a long time but and there's always a but other than the try we never really looked like scoring or threatened. Yes we defended fantastic for 65 minutes and forced uncharacteristic errors from the Blacks which unfortunately we didn't capitalise on, then they had 3 chances and bang 3 tries as easy as that.

I am sick to the back teeth of being involved in fantastic games but ultimately losing at this moment in time I would quite happily take a boring dire game inwhich we won 3-Nil.

I love watching the replay of Barretts try, you could hear a pin drop when he chipped ahead followed by a collective sigh of disbelief, I dont think anyone in the stadium expected him to score that.

IronMike wrote:I love watching the replay of Barretts try, you could hear a pin drop when he chipped ahead followed by a collective sigh of disbelief, I dont think anyone in the stadium expected him to score that.

Jiffy said last night that it was Halfpennys fault nad that player of his calibre should have caught it, I can just image now if that had been Li Williams (not that he would have let it bounce) the guy would have been hung drawn and quartered by fans and media alike.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

IronMike wrote:I love watching the replay of Barretts try, you could hear a pin drop when he chipped ahead followed by a collective sigh of disbelief, I dont think anyone in the stadium expected him to score that.

Jiffy said last night that it was Halfpennys fault nad that player of his calibre should have caught it, I can just image now if that had been Li Williams (not that he would have let it bounce) the guy would have been hung drawn and quartered by fans and media alike.

It was a lucky bounce and Leigh wasn't in a position to catch it. If you go back a phase or two you'll see the JD2 of old, who was a crap defender, in the wrong bloody position in the build up. At least Halfpenny would have tried to have kept it in play. The amount of times I've seen Hook just kick it out when there's no pressure on reminds me why he isn't cut out for Wales duty any more.

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

IronMike wrote:I love watching the replay of Barretts try, you could hear a pin drop when he chipped ahead followed by a collective sigh of disbelief, I dont think anyone in the stadium expected him to score that.

Jiffy said last night that it was Halfpennys fault nad that player of his calibre should have caught it, I can just image now if that had been Li Williams (not that he would have let it bounce) the guy would have been hung drawn and quartered by fans and media alike.

It was a lucky bounce and Leigh wasn't in a position to catch it. If you go back a phase or two you'll see the JD2 of old, who was a crap defender, in the wrong bloody position in the build up. At least Halfpenny would have tried to have kept it in play. The amount of times I've seen Hook just kick it out when there's no pressure on reminds me why he isn't cut out for Wales duty any more.

Barretts a magnet to that sort of luck at that stage of the game. So often he's come on and scored and you have to watch the replay and ask 'How did he do that'? But his timing and placement of the chip was high class. He had 3 defenders on him yet was still able to chip over them in a manner that it just got in behind them yet still had that awkward distance for Halfpenny to be undecided to commit to full or bounce. I mean that was an awful place to be standing to defend hat bounce. In hindsight Halpenny should have dived the ball down on the full but thats how good the chip was.

I guess its also about having the confidence in a tight game to try those sort of things rather than 'playing it safe' so to speak.

Taylorman wrote:

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

IronMike wrote:I love watching the replay of Barretts try, you could hear a pin drop when he chipped ahead followed by a collective sigh of disbelief, I dont think anyone in the stadium expected him to score that.

Jiffy said last night that it was Halfpennys fault nad that player of his calibre should have caught it, I can just image now if that had been Li Williams (not that he would have let it bounce) the guy would have been hung drawn and quartered by fans and media alike.

It was a lucky bounce and Leigh wasn't in a position to catch it. If you go back a phase or two you'll see the JD2 of old, who was a crap defender, in the wrong bloody position in the build up. At least Halfpenny would have tried to have kept it in play. The amount of times I've seen Hook just kick it out when there's no pressure on reminds me why he isn't cut out for Wales duty any more.

Barretts a magnet to that sort of luck at that stage of the game. So often he's come on and scored and you have to watch the replay and ask 'How did he do that'? But his timing and placement of the chip was high class. He had 3 defenders on him yet was still able to chip over them in a manner that it just got in behind them yet still had that awkward distance for Halfpenny to be undecided to commit to full or bounce. I mean that was an awful place to be standing to defend hat bounce. In hindsight Halpenny should have dived the ball down on the full but thats how good the chip was.

Bloody Barrett really does pull of some ridiculous things in the last minute especially as a sub. Its not actually uncommon for him to score tries seemingly out of nowhere from anywhere .

geez this weekend really could be one for the NH. Wales showed enough to be competitive and win this weekend. And Oz are again ready for the pickings.

We softened up both feckers for them!

Why didn't Wales reciprocate and hand over the All Blacks to us for a shot at them after their AI softening up games?

SecretFly wrote:We softened up both feckers for them!

Why didn't Wales reciprocate and hand over the All Blacks to us for a shot at them after their AI softening up games?

With Ireland's current form I thin they would have got the win too

Lesson One take nothing for granted Boks were poor versus Italy as were England
versus Samoa.Neither side had much firepower against a tier 1 side except penaltys.

Unless Wales find some strike power the Boks will kill them with a power game.
IF England rely on those tactics versus Australia they will get badly burned.

Feels like England and Aus are playing fore wooden spoon? Oz confidence isn't where it could be and I think England will knock them over

Boks v Wales should be a brutal affair. I think the boks will win this one as they had the easier week last week. Some of those Welsh boys in the way they tackled last week will still be recovering.

Honest question. Do people think Ireland are the second best team going around at the moment. If not the best?

NO!!

ebop wrote:Honest question. Do people think Ireland are the second best team going around at the moment.

Yeah, why not?

I wouldn't know biltong as I haven't seen them play but have just seen the results and read comments on here.

ebop wrote:I wouldn't know biltong as I haven't seen them play but have just seen the results and read comments on here.

Well they beat the number two and three teams going into the Autumn internationals, so you have to give them credit for that.

If not second then at least the most form team this November I'd say.

For sure, full credit. You guys will always be number 2 (or 1) in my eyes though

ebop wrote:Honest question. Do people think Ireland are the second best team going around at the moment. If not the best?

Not yet. I still think it's NZ 1 and SA 2. Their form at home has been great over this year. But NZ and South Africa didn't lose at home either. Australia's one home lose was to the AB's. They were the top dog in the 6 nations, but I think away form is a crucial indicator. We just don't know yet, as they played France (won), England (lost) and Argentina twice (2 wins against what would usually be Argentina's non playing squad reserves). Games in NZ, Australia or South Africa would have given us a better idea. I think we can say that are a real threat next year, if they continue to improve.

If we don't learn to take any chances we get and actually create some this weekend then it will be same result as ever, a glorious defeat which I am sick and tired of.

ebop wrote:Honest question. Do people think Ireland are the second best team going around at the moment.

Em........................ no.

In a sequence of three on neutral territory, I'd still see SA win two of those.  Ireland have a game that can beat any side but it requires lots of physical energy to repeat and repeat for three or four weeks on the trot.  I know we are getting there on consistency and the stamina levels required for consistency at the tempo we play at and are often forced to play at.  But for now, I think we're quite a way off being as familiar with quality performances in a sequence than any of our SH rivals.

I like to see us in 3rd just to quantify how far we've come from our dangerously low 9th just 18 months ago.  But in a sequence of games against the top 3 (oh we're the top three! see how I still think of NZ, SA, AUS as top three ) but in a sequence of games with those guys I still think we'd turn out 4thish.... with Australia overlapping us again.

I do think there is still so much room for improvement though, and I do believe we have players who can play more creatively than their orders to date allow them to... so in time, we might be worth 3rd over a sustained period.  SA 2nd though and rightfully so.

bedfordwelsh wrote:If we don't learn to take any chances we get and actually create some this weekend then it will be same result as ever, a glorious defeat which I am sick and tired of.

We know our game plan already, Gats more or less made it public after the NZ game when he said 'They kicked 50% more than us". It will be the boot up field and hope to live of scraps in their half.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If we don't learn to take any chances we get and actually create some this weekend then it will be same result as ever, a glorious defeat which I am sick and tired of.

We know our game plan already, Gats more or less made it public after the NZ game when he said 'They kicked 50% more than us".  It will be the boot up field and hope to live of scraps in their half.

SS,

Same old story then same old result

Sad but true. Gats has a very narrow approach to the game.

Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.

ebop wrote:Honest question. Do people think Ireland are the second best team going around at the moment. If not the best?

You seriously think so? Beat SA at home is good but I would also say that England should have beaten SA too.

How would Ireland have featured away in SA? Playing at home has its advantages like we all know.

The good thing for Ireland is that they are fast becoming a very solid outfit and very very strong at home. That's the beginnings of a very good side. I think the rankings are a fair reflection at the moment with little between Ireland, England and Australia. Form dictates that Ireland are the top of that 3. For Ireland or anyone to break the top 2 I would imagine they would need to start beating 3N sides on their own patch.

Wales is not too far off either those 3.

wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.    

I'd say our best chance was at 70 minutes in June....

Or the 1pt loss in the WC,

Or the 3pt loss in 2010,

Or the 4pt loss in 2010

Of the last 6 games against SA, we have lost 4 by less than 5pts. (the other two by 9 last November and 22 in SA this Junes)

wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.    

Wayne,

The things is we have heard this many times before how this is our best chance etc etc, Howley saying we will learn from the NZ game. Well when are we going to start learning from the games FFS, how many times has it happened now.

Also we could possibly be going into this game with a very in-experienced front row and also Phillips will either be starting or on the bench with Priestland on the bench as well.

wales606 wrote:

wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.    

I'd say our best chance was at 70 minutes in June....

Or the 1pt loss in the WC,

Or the 3pt loss in 2010,

Or the 4pt loss in 2010

Of the last 6 games against SA, we have lost 4 by less than 5pts. (the other two by 9 last November and 22 in SA this Junes)

Sorry I disagree, not in ANY of those games were SA as depleted as they will be on Saturday if reports are true.

Said it during the Australia game and say it now if we are not at least 10 points clear going into the last minute then mental and psychological weaknesses will surely come to the fore and well we are more than capable of fecking it up.

wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.    

I think come scrum time you should get a nudge and also at the breakdown... although both Coetzee and Bissie are top operators so it may be a good idea to swap Lydiate for Tipuric. With no Alberts, no Burger then the boks ball carrying effectiveness is far lesser than usual and Wales could do with another more mobile forward with pace to burn.

Got to get he ball into North and Cuthberts hands too... a lot. Not necessarily weak the bok back 3 but there is no Habana, no Pietersen. Its either going to be De Allende, Le Roux & Hendricks or Le Roux, Goosen & Hendricks at 11,15 & 14. I would favour De Allenda as they need muscle to counter the big Welsh wingers.

Hendricks vs. North will be interesting but to be fair to Hendricks he didn't have a problem with Savea this year in both tests. Always got his man so I don't think North will rattle his cage too much.  Cuthbert on the other hand.. that will be interesting, the guy is big and fast and is a top finisher... terrible defensively though so I think the boks may look to exploit him... lots of kicks to his side, lots of cross field kicks down his channel.

For me though.... AW Jones has to front up to Eben & Bissie. If he can then I think Wales has a great chance. I'm not convinced he can but he has the potential yet its the age old question.

fa,

Both North and Cuthbert are defensively weak so anything down their wings could bear fruit, I really hope Liam Williams gets a start but if all fit I think it will be the same back line as last week.

As I mentioned the front row for us will be interesting especially if Jenkins is ruled out as with James and Hibbard both unavailable then we will have a very in experienced front 3.

Who are Wales missing?

1. James
2, Hibbard
12. Roberts
13. Davies
15. Halfpenny

I assume Lydiate is free to play? I know North is.

Hook, Phillips, Charteris, B. Davies also.

So does that mean a Webb, Biggar, North, Allen???, Williams, Cuthbert, Williams backline???

To be fair I think the lack of players on each side evens itself out.... especially if your centre pairing are both out.

fa0019 wrote:Who are Wales missing?

1. James
2, Hibbard
12. Roberts
13. Davies
15. Halfpenny

I assume Lydiate is free to play? I know North is.

Hook, Phillips, Charteris, B. Davies also.

So does that mean a Webb, Biggar, North, Allen???, Williams, Cuthbert, Williams backline???

To be fair I think the lack of players on each side evens itself out.... especially if your centre pairing are both out.

Fa,

North aside we are only missing our English based players all our French based players have been released. Out of the other English players missing the James and Hibbard would have more than likely started.

So I think we will see

Webb Biggar

North Roberts JD Cuthbert

Halfpenny

I would love to see Williams at XV and just hope Webb is fit or Phillips will start

ebop wrote:Honest question. Do people think Ireland are the second best team going around at the moment. If not the best?

Team of the AIs maybe yes , but second best team in the world in 2014 no. They had good victories at home vs the Boks and Australia but beating someone at home and winning away are two different beasts. The boks turned over both the Aussies and All blacks in South Africa but if you said are the Boks the best team in the world at that moment i'd say no just as well . The main reason I think Ireland didnt win team of the year was coz they played the Pumas in the summer tour . So of all the top 5 they had the easiest summer , easy in that Argentina are lower ranked not that the Pumas are easy to beat at home (Ask the Wobblies) . Had the Irish toured say Australia and won one game out of three then i'd say they were the form team in 2014 when its all said and done

fa0019 wrote:

wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.    

I think come scrum time you should get a nudge and also at the breakdown... although both Coetzee and Bissie are top operators so it may be a good idea to swap Lydiate for Tipuric. With no Alberts, no Burger then the boks ball carrying effectiveness is far lesser than usual and Wales could do with another more mobile forward with pace to burn.

Got to get he ball into North and Cuthberts hands too... a lot. Not necessarily weak the bok back 3 but there is no Habana, no Pietersen. Its either going to be De Allende, Le Roux & Hendricks or Le Roux, Goosen & Hendricks at 11,15 & 14. I would favour De Allenda as they need muscle to counter the big Welsh wingers.

Hendricks vs. North will be interesting but to be fair to Hendricks he didn't have a problem with Savea this year in both tests. Always got his man so I don't think North will rattle his cage too much.  Cuthbert on the other hand.. that will be interesting, the guy is big and fast and is a top finisher... terrible defensively though so I think the boks may look to exploit him... lots of kicks to his side, lots of cross field kicks down his channel.

For me though.... AW Jones has to front up to Eben & Bissie. If he can then I think Wales has a great chance. I'm not convinced he can but he has the potential yet its the age old question.

 

Goosens unavailable , JC keo guy whos on tour with the Boks just reported its Mvovo Hendricks Le Roux back three and Lambie , Reinach starting halfbacks with De allende on the bench for center

bedfordwelsh wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Who are Wales missing?

1. James
2, Hibbard
12. Roberts
13. Davies
15. Halfpenny

I assume Lydiate is free to play? I know North is.

Hook, Phillips, Charteris, B. Davies also.

So does that mean a Webb, Biggar, North, Allen???, Williams, Cuthbert, Williams backline???

To be fair I think the lack of players on each side evens itself out.... especially if your centre pairing are both out.

Fa,

North aside we are only missing our English based players all our French based players have been released.  Out of the other English players missing the James and Hibbard would have more than likely started.

So I think we will see

Webb Biggar

North Roberts JD Cuthbert

Halfpenny

I would love to see Williams at XV and just hope Webb is fit or Phillips will start

wow... that's great for Wales. I agree then, if Wales are ever going to win... its now. If they can't..... the Gatland experiment is probably over. No more... its just a matter of time debate.