Wales vs the Boks

by maestegmafia Mon 24 Nov 2014, 8:21 am

First topic message reminder :

Wales vs the Boks - Page 3 Wales_10

Wales v South Africa
29 November 2014
KO: 14:30
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)

****
Another week of misery for us Welshmen. What a shame, so much to be proud of vs the ABs but the scoreline does not reflect that.

These boys have shown they can push SA and it would be good to take something from this Autumn Series though I doubt many of expect we will.

Will be missing some good players who have to return to their clubs. So will SA.

We also have a good number of worrying injuries. Not sure if the team announcement will be Tuesday or not...?

The boks fielded a few experimental selections last Saturday against Italy in a weakened team. I imagine they will change a few players around and we will see a side similar to that which beat England.

by GavinDragon Tue 25 Nov 2014, 12:44 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
ebop wrote:Honest question. Do people think Ireland are the second best team going around at the moment. If not the best?

Team of the AIs maybe yes , but second best team in the world in 2014 no. They had good victories at home vs the Boks and Australia but beating someone at home and winning away are two different beasts. The boks turned over both the Aussies and All blacks in South Africa but if you said are the Boks the best team in the world at that moment i'd say no just as well . The main reason I think Ireland didnt win team of the year was coz they played the Pumas in the summer tour . So of all the top 5 they had the easiest summer , easy in that Argentina are lower ranked not that the Pumas are easy to beat at home (Ask the Wobblies) . Had the Irish toured say Australia and won one game out of three then i'd say they were the form team in 2014 when its all said and done

is the NH/SH gap closing?

by **Biltong** Tue 25 Nov 2014, 12:47 pm

So basically the first choice backline is available for Wales?

by wayne Tue 25 Nov 2014, 12:48 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.

Wayne,

The things is we have heard this many times before how this is our best chance etc etc, Howley saying we will learn from the NZ game. Well when are we going to start learning from the games FFS, how many times has it happened now.

Also we could possibly be going into this game with a very in-experienced front row and also Phillips will either be starting or on the bench with Priestland on the bench as well.

BW, we could be going in with Jenkins, Baldwin and Lee, that is not a bad front row, a lot was made of Baldwins throwing in last week, yes there was a couple of mis throws, there was also 2 where NOBODY was in the air, so NOT his fault, even though Phillips was at fault for Reads try there was nobody in front of him blocking Read, he should have passed it back for somebody else to clear, I also agree with many on here who wanted O. Williams brought into the squad, yet he would still NOT be available for this game, Priestland is the best available for this match and we need to get behind him and definetely NOT boo him if and when he comes on.
A team of Halfpenny/Williams, North/Williams, Davies, Roberts, Cuthbert/Williams, Biggar, Webb/Phillips, Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee, AWJ, Ball, Lydiate, WRUburton, Faletau and a bench of, if the worse come to the worse of Phillips, Jones, Jones, Charteris, Tipuric, Williams, Priestland, and S. Williams will IMO still be enough to win this game game

by Bullsbok Tue 25 Nov 2014, 12:49 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Bullsbok wrote:
ebop wrote:Honest question. Do people think Ireland are the second best team going around at the moment. If not the best?

Team of the AIs maybe yes , but second best team in the world in 2014 no. They had good victories at home vs the Boks and Australia but beating someone at home and winning away are two different beasts. The boks turned over both the Aussies and All blacks in South Africa but if you said are the Boks the best team in the world at that moment i'd say no just as well . The main reason I think Ireland didnt win team of the year was coz they played the Pumas in the summer tour . So of all the top 5 they had the easiest summer , easy in that Argentina are lower ranked not that the Pumas are easy to beat at home (Ask the Wobblies) . Had the Irish toured say Australia and won one game out of three then i'd say they were the form team in 2014 when its all said and done

is the NH/SH gap closing?

Difficult to say , this year judging on Ireland in the AI alone you'd say hell yes . But then the NH tours the big three SH in the summer and get whitewashed all round . Only Ireland pull wins . Its actually a hard question to answer when you think about it . If anything i'd say the gap between the Ozzies and the NH is almost non existent based on this year. Gap between the other two and the NH though..is a different matter , maybe not so much for Ireland however.

by fa0019 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 12:50 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.

I think come scrum time you should get a nudge and also at the breakdown... although both Coetzee and Bissie are top operators so it may be a good idea to swap Lydiate for Tipuric. With no Alberts, no Burger then the boks ball carrying effectiveness is far lesser than usual and Wales could do with another more mobile forward with pace to burn.

Got to get he ball into North and Cuthberts hands too... a lot. Not necessarily weak the bok back 3 but there is no Habana, no Pietersen. Its either going to be De Allende, Le Roux & Hendricks or Le Roux, Goosen & Hendricks at 11,15 & 14. I would favour De Allenda as they need muscle to counter the big Welsh wingers.

Hendricks vs. North will be interesting but to be fair to Hendricks he didn't have a problem with Savea this year in both tests. Always got his man so I don't think North will rattle his cage too much. Cuthbert on the other hand.. that will be interesting, the guy is big and fast and is a top finisher... terrible defensively though so I think the boks may look to exploit him... lots of kicks to his side, lots of cross field kicks down his channel.

For me though.... AW Jones has to front up to Eben & Bissie. If he can then I think Wales has a great chance. I'm not convinced he can but he has the potential yet its the age old question.

Goosens unavailable , JC keo guy whos on tour with the Boks just reported its Mvovo Hendricks Le Roux back three and Lambie , Reinach starting halfbacks with De allende on the bench for center

Thanks for the heads up. Just gone to his site and the read the article..... hmm, Mvovo vs. Cuthbert? Interesting battle. Not sure what Meyer is doing with De Allende though... well other than carrying tackle bags and the water bottles.

by wales606 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 12:51 pm

wayne wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.

Wayne,

The things is we have heard this many times before how this is our best chance etc etc, Howley saying we will learn from the NZ game. Well when are we going to start learning from the games FFS, how many times has it happened now.

Also we could possibly be going into this game with a very in-experienced front row and also Phillips will either be starting or on the bench with Priestland on the bench as well.
BW, we could be going in with Jenkins, Baldwin and Lee, that is not a bad front row, a lot was made of Baldwins throwing in last week, yes there was a couple of mis throws, there was also 2 where NOBODY was in the air, so NOT his fault, even though Phillips was at fault for Reads try there was nobody in front of him blocking Read, he should have passed it back for somebody else to clear, I also agree with many on here who wanted O. Williams brought into the squad, yet he would still NOT be available for this game, Priestland is the best available for this match and we need to get behind him and definetely NOT boo him if and when he comes on.
A team of Halfpenny/Williams, North/Williams, Davies, Roberts, Cuthbert/Williams, Biggar, Webb/Phillips, Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee, AWJ, Ball, Lydiate, WRUburton, Faletau and a bench of, if the worse come to the worse of Phillips, Jones, Jones, Charteris, Tipuric, Williams, Priestland, and S. Williams will IMO still be enough to win this game game

It is not just that game where Baldwins throwing has been a problem though,

It has always been a concern, and while he seems to have improved this year, when under pressure he still does not get the accuracy needed of an international hooker.

I would like to see Kristian Dacey in the squad for the 6Ns

by Bullsbok Tue 25 Nov 2014, 12:54 pm

fa0019 wrote:
Bullsbok wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.

I think come scrum time you should get a nudge and also at the breakdown... although both Coetzee and Bissie are top operators so it may be a good idea to swap Lydiate for Tipuric. With no Alberts, no Burger then the boks ball carrying effectiveness is far lesser than usual and Wales could do with another more mobile forward with pace to burn.

Got to get he ball into North and Cuthberts hands too... a lot. Not necessarily weak the bok back 3 but there is no Habana, no Pietersen. Its either going to be De Allende, Le Roux & Hendricks or Le Roux, Goosen & Hendricks at 11,15 & 14. I would favour De Allenda as they need muscle to counter the big Welsh wingers.

Hendricks vs. North will be interesting but to be fair to Hendricks he didn't have a problem with Savea this year in both tests. Always got his man so I don't think North will rattle his cage too much. Cuthbert on the other hand.. that will be interesting, the guy is big and fast and is a top finisher... terrible defensively though so I think the boks may look to exploit him... lots of kicks to his side, lots of cross field kicks down his channel.

For me though.... AW Jones has to front up to Eben & Bissie. If he can then I think Wales has a great chance. I'm not convinced he can but he has the potential yet its the age old question.

Goosens unavailable , JC keo guy whos on tour with the Boks just reported its Mvovo Hendricks Le Roux back three and Lambie , Reinach starting halfbacks with De allende on the bench for center

Thanks for the heads up. Just gone to his site and the read the article..... hmm, Mvovo vs. Cuthbert? Interesting battle. Not sure what Meyer is doing with De Allende though... well other than carrying tackle bags and the water bottles.

Hoping De allende gets a look in at center , with Jan Moving closer to flyhalf. But the only way Meyer would pull his captain is if the win was guaranteed . Mvovo Cuthbert , at least there'll be no 70m trys from Cuthbert if he has Mvovo chasing Very Happy

by wayne Tue 25 Nov 2014, 1:02 pm

wales606 wrote:
wayne wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.

Wayne,

The things is we have heard this many times before how this is our best chance etc etc, Howley saying we will learn from the NZ game. Well when are we going to start learning from the games FFS, how many times has it happened now.

Also we could possibly be going into this game with a very in-experienced front row and also Phillips will either be starting or on the bench with Priestland on the bench as well.
BW, we could be going in with Jenkins, Baldwin and Lee, that is not a bad front row, a lot was made of Baldwins throwing in last week, yes there was a couple of mis throws, there was also 2 where NOBODY was in the air, so NOT his fault, even though Phillips was at fault for Reads try there was nobody in front of him blocking Read, he should have passed it back for somebody else to clear, I also agree with many on here who wanted O. Williams brought into the squad, yet he would still NOT be available for this game, Priestland is the best available for this match and we need to get behind him and definetely NOT boo him if and when he comes on.
A team of Halfpenny/Williams, North/Williams, Davies, Roberts, Cuthbert/Williams, Biggar, Webb/Phillips, Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee, AWJ, Ball, Lydiate, WRUburton, Faletau and a bench of, if the worse come to the worse of Phillips, Jones, Jones, Charteris, Tipuric, Williams, Priestland, and S. Williams will IMO still be enough to win this game game

It is not just that game where Baldwins throwing has been a problem though,

It has always been a concern, and while he seems to have improved this year, when under pressure he still does not get the accuracy needed of an international hooker.

I would like to see Kristian Dacey in the squad for the 6Ns

You're a Blues supporter and I'm an Ospreys fan so obviously we're going to disagree about our own players, let me tell you we didn't lose a single line out in a Guinness League game up until the start of the RCC, and what happened with the scrum against Australia when him and Jenkins came on against Australia, and let me just say it is NOT all about the props at scrum time.

by fa0019 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 1:05 pm

given you play Hibbard lets be honest a blind man with a gammy arm would be better. Anyone else can't be worse right??? If so you have no chance!!!!!

Outstanding player, probably the worst lineout throwing hooker in tier 1 test rugby mind.... well given Tom Youngs is no longer in the England 23.

by Guest Tue 25 Nov 2014, 1:06 pm

wayne wrote:
wales606 wrote:
wayne wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.

Wayne,

The things is we have heard this many times before how this is our best chance etc etc, Howley saying we will learn from the NZ game. Well when are we going to start learning from the games FFS, how many times has it happened now.

Also we could possibly be going into this game with a very in-experienced front row and also Phillips will either be starting or on the bench with Priestland on the bench as well.
BW, we could be going in with Jenkins, Baldwin and Lee, that is not a bad front row, a lot was made of Baldwins throwing in last week, yes there was a couple of mis throws, there was also 2 where NOBODY was in the air, so NOT his fault, even though Phillips was at fault for Reads try there was nobody in front of him blocking Read, he should have passed it back for somebody else to clear, I also agree with many on here who wanted O. Williams brought into the squad, yet he would still NOT be available for this game, Priestland is the best available for this match and we need to get behind him and definetely NOT boo him if and when he comes on.
A team of Halfpenny/Williams, North/Williams, Davies, Roberts, Cuthbert/Williams, Biggar, Webb/Phillips, Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee, AWJ, Ball, Lydiate, WRUburton, Faletau and a bench of, if the worse come to the worse of Phillips, Jones, Jones, Charteris, Tipuric, Williams, Priestland, and S. Williams will IMO still be enough to win this game game

It is not just that game where Baldwins throwing has been a problem though,

It has always been a concern, and while he seems to have improved this year, when under pressure he still does not get the accuracy needed of an international hooker.

I would like to see Kristian Dacey in the squad for the 6Ns
You're a Blues supporter and I'm an Ospreys fan so obviously we're going to disagree about our own players, let me tell you we didn't lose a single line out in a Guinness League game up until the start of the RCC, and what happened with the scrum against Australia when him and Jenkins came on against Australia, and let me just say it is NOT all about the props at scrum time.

Should be Elliott Dee at Hooker for me Wink

by Guest Tue 25 Nov 2014, 1:07 pm

fa0019 wrote:given you play Hibbard lets be honest a blind man with a gammy arm would be better. Anyone else can't be worse right??? If so you have no chance!!!!!

Outstanding player, probably the worst lineout throwing hooker in tier 1 test rugby mind.... well given Tom Youngs is no longer in the England 23.

Ford for Scotland??? Or has he improved now under a new coach?

by fa0019 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 1:09 pm

Bullsbok wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
Bullsbok wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
wayne wrote:Come on boys, if SA has the number of changes that is being widely reported is true, even though they know what our game plan is going to be, this is the BEST chance we have had since 1999 to win this game, unless Gatland throws a wobbly and selects some real poor players (I'm not talking M. Phillips here), if the team is made up of players who were in the 23 last week, this is the best chance we have had in that period.
I'm a glass half FULL person, be OPTIMISTIC.

I think come scrum time you should get a nudge and also at the breakdown... although both Coetzee and Bissie are top operators so it may be a good idea to swap Lydiate for Tipuric. With no Alberts, no Burger then the boks ball carrying effectiveness is far lesser than usual and Wales could do with another more mobile forward with pace to burn.

Got to get he ball into North and Cuthberts hands too... a lot. Not necessarily weak the bok back 3 but there is no Habana, no Pietersen. Its either going to be De Allende, Le Roux & Hendricks or Le Roux, Goosen & Hendricks at 11,15 & 14. I would favour De Allenda as they need muscle to counter the big Welsh wingers.

Hendricks vs. North will be interesting but to be fair to Hendricks he didn't have a problem with Savea this year in both tests. Always got his man so I don't think North will rattle his cage too much. Cuthbert on the other hand.. that will be interesting, the guy is big and fast and is a top finisher... terrible defensively though so I think the boks may look to exploit him... lots of kicks to his side, lots of cross field kicks down his channel.

For me though.... AW Jones has to front up to Eben & Bissie. If he can then I think Wales has a great chance. I'm not convinced he can but he has the potential yet its the age old question.

Goosens unavailable , JC keo guy whos on tour with the Boks just reported its Mvovo Hendricks Le Roux back three and Lambie , Reinach starting halfbacks with De allende on the bench for center

Thanks for the heads up. Just gone to his site and the read the article..... hmm, Mvovo vs. Cuthbert? Interesting battle. Not sure what Meyer is doing with De Allende though... well other than carrying tackle bags and the water bottles.

Hoping De allende gets a look in at center , with Jan Moving closer to flyhalf. But the only way Meyer would pull his captain is if the win was guaranteed . Mvovo Cuthbert , at least there'll be no 70m trys from Cuthbert if he has Mvovo chasing

Could be the Cuthbert vs Mvovo chuckle brothers match.

Cuthbert smashes Mvovo for a try. Mvovo runs rings round Cuthbert, Cuthbert smashes Mvovo for another try, Mvovo runs rings round Cuthbert again. Both are great attackers, both have interesting defence.

The one thing Mvovo has mind is sheer pace so it gives him the advantage. Why risk getting bulldozed when you can give him the outside and tackle him from the side/rear for a 100% likely successful tackle?

by Guest Tue 25 Nov 2014, 1:13 pm

Fa, actually if you watch Cuthbert he is more of a runner than a bosher. Sure, he tries to bosh. And at 6'6" he's got the size. But apart from flopping over the line his usual trick is running at pace in space. He's very quick for his size. Look at a video of his best tries and you'll see. North is actually more of a 'bosher' out of the two.

by fa0019 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 1:13 pm

Griff wrote:Fa, actually if you watch Cuthbert he is more of a runner than a bosher. Sure, he tries to bosh. And at 6'6" he's got the size. But apart from flopping over the line his usual trick is running at pace in space. He's very quick for his size. Look at a video of his best tries and you'll see. North is actually more of a 'bosher' out of the two.

No doubt for me he's the best finisher in European rugby from the 22 onwards.

by Guest Tue 25 Nov 2014, 1:18 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7N6XAjym70

Here's a couple of clips. He gets a few boshes and carries in the middle of the video but he's generally attacking the space. Due to his size he's got some success from people falling of tackles, but his acceleration and change of direction for his size is great.

In defence though....... oh boy!

by SecretFly Tue 25 Nov 2014, 2:03 pm

Defending is what SH sides tend to request of you though.

It's in the contract before the game: "So we flipped a coin and that means you guys elect to defend, right?" "Okay, Ritchie, I guess we'll agree to defend"

by Guest Tue 25 Nov 2014, 2:19 pm

I know. And that's why, for all of his prolific record and fancy footwork, Cuthbert is a bit of a liability. A luxury I question whether we can afford.

The other problem, as discussed ad nauseam, is Wales gameplan. I agree with your tongue-in-cheek coin flip, but Wales don't 'arf help the SH teams out too. I'm a big believer in 'attack is the best form of defence'. However, Wales and Gatland like to nudge in front, boot the ball down field, press up and try to defend and contain, working off mistakes. But the SH (and now Ireland) are not up there in the rankings for no reason - it's because they make fewer mistakes.

Every time we play Aus we get in front, kick to them to soak up the pressure, try to force the errors but they don't come and we concede late points. We seem to get plenty of possession, but I'd prefer us to keep hold of it and attack or at least try to kick deep for a lineout in opposition 22 and try to pinch one. Defending up the pitch with a few defensive liabilities has proved to be a pointless exercise in closing out games!

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 25 Nov 2014, 2:42 pm

Griff wrote:I'm a big believer in 'attack is the best form of defence'.

And the welsh game plan at the moment is more 'defence is the best for of attack'

I am starting to wonder whether we are playing crafty games. In the build up tot he last RWC we were playing that god awful typewriter rugby, and using grunt over skill. Then we suddenly chanced it in the RWC to start playing flowing attacking rugby.

We are at the moment playing a really dull defence based game with no real desire to create opportunities, just happy to capitalise on mistakes/pens. So maybe come the RWC we will see the likes of Lydiate, Biggar, Roberts and Halfpenny drop from the team and the likes of Tipuric, Morgan/Patchell, Sc. Williams and Li. Williams getting drafted in as regular starters, and our game plan change from trying to concede less than the opposition, to trying to score more than them.

by **Biltong** Tue 25 Nov 2014, 2:51 pm

We are at the moment playing a really dull defence based game with no real desire to create opportunities, just happy to capitalise on mistakes/pens

SS wrote:

You shouldn't knock that, New Zealand does a fair bit if that, OK granted they know what to do when they turn over ball

by wales606 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 3:07 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Griff wrote:I'm a big believer in 'attack is the best form of defence'.

And the welsh game plan at the moment is more 'defence is the best for of attack'

I am starting to wonder whether we are playing crafty games. In the build up tot he last RWC we were playing that god awful typewriter rugby, and using grunt over skill. Then we suddenly chanced it in the RWC to start playing flowing attacking rugby.

We are at the moment playing a really dull defence based game with no real desire to create opportunities, just happy to capitalise on mistakes/pens. So maybe come the RWC we will see the likes of Lydiate, Biggar, Roberts and Halfpenny drop from the team and the likes of Tipuric, Morgan/Patchell, Sc. Williams and Li. Williams getting drafted in as regular starters, and our game plan change from trying to concede less than the opposition, to trying to score more than them.

Gatland has stated that he is holding back changes for the world cup,

I am hopeful that given a full pre-season build up under Gatland we will see some changes at the WC.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 25 Nov 2014, 3:07 pm

Bilts, to an extent all teams play that way but the current Welsh setup seems geared up to play 10 man rugby, but using 15 men to do it (if that makes sense).

by rainbow-warrior Tue 25 Nov 2014, 3:29 pm

ebop wrote:Boks v Wales should be a brutal affair. I think the boks will win this one as they had the easier week last week. Some of those Welsh boys in the way they tackled last week will still be recovering.

So will Sonny Bill, did nothing, Hibbard kept him in his pocket.

by Jhamer25 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 3:42 pm

So say if Rhys is injured (and by god i hope he isn't), would people automatically pick mike or should we try something different with Rhodri. I've said it for ages now that Mike doesn't deserve to be in the welsh team at all. Im just gutted Gareth Davies is injured now because him and rhys webb would be two great options.

Some are saying it wont be much of a problem because mike can bring physicality to the boks. How many times have we said that and have we beat the boks. He plays a slower more physical game which suits the big bok forwards perfectly.

by Bullsbok Tue 25 Nov 2014, 3:49 pm

Jhamer25 wrote:So say if Rhys is injured (and by god i hope he isn't), would people automatically pick mike or should we try something different with Rhodri. I've said it for ages now that Mike doesn't deserve to be in the welsh team at all. Im just gutted Gareth Davies is injured now because him and rhys webb would be two great options.

Some are saying it wont be much of a problem because mike can bring physicality to the boks. How many times have we said that and have we beat the boks. He plays a slower more physical game which suits the big bok forwards perfectly.

Mike Philips brings /says the same thing over and over again when it comes to the Boks . Physicality and it never translates to wins. Wales need Webb , a fresh nippy scrummie to run around the pack not Philips who'll spend most of his time getting into scuffles with the loose forwards cause he thinks he's big enough to handle them .

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 25 Nov 2014, 5:13 pm

Wales need op ions. Webb/Davies/Rh Williams are nippy and snipe, Phillips is a physical lump. Biggar is a controlling fly half, Priest/Hook are capable of some beautiful attacking rugby. You need, in my humble opinion, players on the bench that offer something different/contrasting to those that start. That way you can use them to change the game plan, rather than just for a fresh set of legs.

by The Saint Tue 25 Nov 2014, 5:18 pm

Biltong wrote:So basically the first choice backline is available for Wales?

What is the first choice backline now though? Certainly not the one Gatland is picking.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 25 Nov 2014, 5:21 pm

Jhamer25 wrote:So say if Rhys is injured (and by god i hope he isn't), would people automatically pick mike or should we try something different with Rhodri. I've said it for ages now that Mike doesn't deserve to be in the welsh team at all. Im just gutted Gareth Davies is injured now because him and rhys webb would be two great options.

Some are saying it wont be much of a problem because mike can bring physicality to the boks. How many times have we said that and have we beat the boks. He plays a slower more physical game which suits the big bok forwards perfectly.

Jh,

It doesn't matter what people would pick though don't think many would pick him it's what Gatland will pick and he will pick Phillips.

Nicky Smith has now been ruled out so a lot will ride on Jenkins shaking his injury or it will be a very in-experienced front row. If he is ruled out then I would go with what ScarletsSpider man suggested and picking the Scarlets front row of Evans Phillips and Lee at least that way there is some familiarity.

by wales606 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 5:37 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Jhamer25 wrote:So say if Rhys is injured (and by god i hope he isn't), would people automatically pick mike or should we try something different with Rhodri. I've said it for ages now that Mike doesn't deserve to be in the welsh team at all. Im just gutted Gareth Davies is injured now because him and rhys webb would be two great options.

Some are saying it wont be much of a problem because mike can bring physicality to the boks. How many times have we said that and have we beat the boks. He plays a slower more physical game which suits the big bok forwards perfectly.

Jh,

It doesn't matter what people would pick though don't think many would pick him it's what Gatland will pick and he will pick Phillips.

Nicky Smith has now been ruled out so a lot will ride on Jenkins shaking his injury or it will be a very in-experienced front row. If he is ruled out then I would go with what ScarletsSpider man suggested and picking the Scarlets front row of Evans Phillips and Lee at least that way there is some familiarity.

Jenkins returned to training today

by bedfordwelsh Tue 25 Nov 2014, 5:54 pm

wales606 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
Jhamer25 wrote:So say if Rhys is injured (and by god i hope he isn't), would people automatically pick mike or should we try something different with Rhodri. I've said it for ages now that Mike doesn't deserve to be in the welsh team at all. Im just gutted Gareth Davies is injured now because him and rhys webb would be two great options.

Some are saying it wont be much of a problem because mike can bring physicality to the boks. How many times have we said that and have we beat the boks. He plays a slower more physical game which suits the big bok forwards perfectly.

Jh,

It doesn't matter what people would pick though don't think many would pick him it's what Gatland will pick and he will pick Phillips.

Nicky Smith has now been ruled out so a lot will ride on Jenkins shaking his injury or it will be a very in-experienced front row. If he is ruled out then I would go with what ScarletsSpider man suggested and picking the Scarlets front row of Evans Phillips and Lee at least that way there is some familiarity.

Jenkins returned to training today

That's good news then as despite my thoughts on him not being first choice anymore we will need his experience.

by **Biltong** Tue 25 Nov 2014, 5:55 pm

The Saint wrote:
Biltong wrote:So basically the first choice backline is available for Wales?

What is the first choice backline now though? Certainly not the one Gatland is picking.

Well then, Gatland's first choice

by bedfordwelsh Tue 25 Nov 2014, 6:00 pm

[quote="Biltong"]

The Saint wrote:
Biltong wrote:So basically the first choice backline is available for Wales?

What is the first choice backline now though? Certainly not the one Gatland is picking.

Well then, Gatland's first choice[/quot

Gatlands first choice I think would be the starting line up from the ABs game:

Webb, Biggar, North, Roberts JD, Cuthbert, Halfpenny

Overall most would agree with that but like me a lot feel that Liam Williams should be in there preferably at XV with then an alternative to the boshers on the wing. Whether that alternative is Halfpenny or Amos or Walker who knows.

It's all personnel choice I guess.

by chris_501 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 6:03 pm

The team I would imagine would be -

1. Jenkins
2. Baldwin
3. Lee
4. Ball
5. AW Jones
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau

9.Webb/ Phillips
10. Biggar
11. North/Li Williams
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Emyr Phillips
17. Rob Evans
18. Rhodri Jones
19. Charteris
20. Tipuric
21. Phillips/ Rhodri Williams
22. Priestland
23. Li Williams/ Sc Williams

by **Biltong** Tue 25 Nov 2014, 6:07 pm

Thanks bedfordwelsh, appreciated

by bedfordwelsh Tue 25 Nov 2014, 6:37 pm

chris_501 wrote:The team I would imagine would be -

1. Jenkins
2. Baldwin
3. Lee
4. Ball
5. AW Jones
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau

9.Webb/ Phillips
10. Biggar
11. North/Li Williams
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Emyr Phillips
17. Rob Evans
18. Rhodri Jones
19. Charteris
20. Tipuric
21. Phillips/ Rhodri Williams
22. Priestland
23. Li Williams/ Sc Williams

Pretty spot on but I would love to see Williams start anyway regardless of weather North is fit or not.

by chris_501 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 8:29 pm

If North is unfit (and it's hard to see how he could get passed fit), do you think Gats may have a bit of him that would like to see Williams at fullback with Halfpenny on the wing?

by Guest Tue 25 Nov 2014, 8:48 pm

My guess is Williams will be on the wing whatever happens,

I would like to see Williams at fullback, Halfpenny gets isolated and turned over a bit easily when running back, hence why he keeps kicking

by chris_501 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 8:59 pm

IronMike wrote:My guess is Williams will be on the wing whatever happens,

I would like to see Williams at fullback, Halfpenny gets isolated and turned over a bit easily when running back, hence why he keeps kicking

The amount of time he slips bringing the ball back is also a bit disconcerting. You'd have thought he would get more appropriate studs.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:01 pm

IronMike wrote:My guess is Williams will be on the wing whatever happens,

I would like to see Williams at fullback, Halfpenny gets isolated and turned over a bit easily when running back, hence why he keeps kicking

IM,

I agree and think Cuthbert will be the one to make way but I don't honestly see that much between him and North.

by Knowsit17 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 10:53 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
IronMike wrote:My guess is Williams will be on the wing whatever happens,

I would like to see Williams at fullback, Halfpenny gets isolated and turned over a bit easily when running back, hence why he keeps kicking

IM,

I agree and think Cuthbert will be the one to make way but I don't honestly see that much between him and North.

Still think Cuthbert is being sold short. His defence this autumn hasn't been noticeably so bad as in the past and overall he's been one of Wales' most prominent attackers all through the year. Currently he's probably Wales' most clinical and consistent finisher given that North's last 5 or so games have been far from his best (North has actually been at fault for plenty of errors this term).

Should North fail to recover, which is a fairly strong possibility, a back three of Cuthbert-Williams-Halfpenny (Williams 15; Halfpenny reconverting to the wing) would surely make the most sense.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 25 Nov 2014, 11:11 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
IronMike wrote:My guess is Williams will be on the wing whatever happens,

I would like to see Williams at fullback, Halfpenny gets isolated and turned over a bit easily when running back, hence why he keeps kicking

IM,

I agree and think Cuthbert will be the one to make way but I don't honestly see that much between him and North.

Still think Cuthbert is being sold short. His defence this autumn hasn't been noticeably so bad as in the past and overall he's been one of Wales' most prominent attackers all through the year. Currently he's probably Wales' most clinical and consistent finisher given that North's last 5 or so games have been far from his best (North has actually been at fault for plenty of errors this term).

Should North fail to recover, which is a fairly strong possibility, a back three of Cuthbert-Williams-Halfpenny (Williams 15; Halfpenny reconverting to the wing) would surely make the most sense.

Knowsit,

I agree on all accounts, Cuthbert gets slated for his defence which I admit can be poor but it no worse than Norths and when you compare their strike rate its pretty much on bar as well, yet when you read about who should be dropped its always Cuthbert.

Touching on what I mentioned on this and other threads about us having gym monkeys rather than players with rugby brains even if he paick Halfpenny at XV and Williams on the wing I would like them both to show a bit of thinking and swap and change positions during the game.

by maestegmafia Wed 26 Nov 2014, 8:34 am

All tall backs get a bad wrap for their defending,even the mighty Lomu got slated for defence before.

As a nippy youngster our games master always offered that a good little'un will always beat a biggun' because the tall lads can't turn fast.

What both Cuthbert and North can do in attack far outweighs the perceived issues on this board by a few posters questioning their defence.

by **Biltong** Wed 26 Nov 2014, 9:09 am

If you think North and Cuthbert has issues on defence, then watch Hendricks and Mvovo, neither are solid defenders.

by blackcanelion Wed 26 Nov 2014, 9:16 am

maestegmafia wrote:All tall backs get a bad wrap for their defending,even the mighty Lomu got slated for defence before.

As a nippy youngster our games master always offered that a good little'un will always beat a biggun' because the tall lads can't turn fast.

What both Cuthbert and North can do in attack far outweighs the perceived issues on this board by a few posters questioning their defence.

Having just watched the mini me play fijian touch with the Island boys. I think I can safely say a quick 6ft 1 inch 20 stone 12 year old doesn't need to turn.........

by **Biltong** Wed 26 Nov 2014, 9:58 am

Springbok team announced for Wales.

15 Willie le Roux,
14 Cornal Hendricks,
13 Jan Serfontein,
12 Jean de Villiers (captain),
11 Lwazi Mvovo,
10 Pat Lambie,
9 Cobus Reinach,
8 Duane Vermeulen,
7 Teboho “Oupa” Mohoje,
6 Marcell Coetzee,
5 Victor Matfield,
4 Eben Etzebeth,
3 Coenie Oosthuizen,
2 Bismarck du Plessis,
1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes:
16 Adriaan Strauss,
17 Trevor Nyakane,
18 Julian Redelinghuys,
19 Lood de Jager,
20 Nizaam Carr,
21 Francois Hougaard,
22 Handré Pollard,
23 Damian de Allende

Some areas for Wales to exploit.

1. Our back three aren't the best defenders.
2. Cornal Hendricks is useless under the high ball.
3. Coenie Oosthuizen scrums in at every scrum, look at him to exploit scrum penalties
4. Jean de Villiers and Jan Serfontein are predictable.
5. Employ Ireland's tactics of up and unders, kick onto Hendricks and get the ball wide, your big runners will break the line easily.
6. Exploit the breakdown, Mohoje brings nothing to it, Coetzee will be too busy making up what Mohoje lacks that Vermeulen will be the only threat at the breakdown.

by Guest Wed 26 Nov 2014, 10:07 am

Looks like a strong enough team, though I don't know many of the replacements except for Strauss, Hougaard and Pollard.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 26 Nov 2014, 10:34 am

What on earth is the point in this game?

9 players are missing because this game is "out of the test window"

Test rugby has made a mockery of the game, and takes it for granted.

Shameful.

by ME-109 Wed 26 Nov 2014, 10:58 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:What on earth is the point in this game?

9 players are missing because this game is "out of the test window"

Test rugby has made a mockery of the game, and takes it for granted.

Shameful.

You have used "pathetic", "a Joke" and "shameful" in a number of posts about this game. You should probably lie down in a dark room for a little as you are getting quite hysterical and you could easily hurt yourself.

by **Biltong** Wed 26 Nov 2014, 11:09 am

The point of this game for me is to se the following aspects.

1. Can our back three prove they are defensively up for it to play against North, Cuthbert, Davies and Roberts? That is a big ask, and if they pass this test Meyer might be prepared to look at talent rather than size. We have a bunch of extremely talented players back home that does not fit the bill of what Meyer requires in the wings. Players such as Senatla who is probably one of the fastest rugby players on the planet, problem is weighs only 76 kg.

We have Cheslin Colbe 72kg, brilliant stepper and oodles of pace. We have someone like Paul Jordaan, only weighs 90 kg, excellent playmaker, he plays 13 for the Sharks.

Those three are brilliantly talented players, and the only way they will ever get a shot is for smaller players to prove to Meyer they can defend.

by Chunky Norwich Wed 26 Nov 2014, 11:26 am

Biltong wrote:The point of this game for me is to se the following aspects.

1. Can our back three prove they are defensively up for it to play against North, Cuthbert, Davies and Roberts? That is a big ask, and if they pass this test Meyer might be prepared to look at talent rather than size. We have a bunch of extremely talented players back home that does not fit the bill of what Meyer requires in the wings. Players such as Senatla who is probably one of the fastest rugby players on the planet, problem is weighs only 76 kg.

We have Cheslin Colbe 72kg, brilliant stepper and oodles of pace. We have someone like Paul Jordaan, only weighs 90 kg, excellent playmaker, he plays 13 for the Sharks.

Those three are brilliantly talented players, and the only way they will ever get a shot is for smaller players to prove to Meyer they can defend.

I don't care about your back three though. I care about domestic rugby. And it is being utterly torn apart by the likes of this needless fixture.

by fa0019 Wed 26 Nov 2014, 11:32 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Biltong wrote:The point of this game for me is to se the following aspects.

1. Can our back three prove they are defensively up for it to play against North, Cuthbert, Davies and Roberts? That is a big ask, and if they pass this test Meyer might be prepared to look at talent rather than size. We have a bunch of extremely talented players back home that does not fit the bill of what Meyer requires in the wings. Players such as Senatla who is probably one of the fastest rugby players on the planet, problem is weighs only 76 kg.

We have Cheslin Colbe 72kg, brilliant stepper and oodles of pace. We have someone like Paul Jordaan, only weighs 90 kg, excellent playmaker, he plays 13 for the Sharks.

Those three are brilliantly talented players, and the only way they will ever get a shot is for smaller players to prove to Meyer they can defend.

I don't care about your back three though. I care about domestic rugby. And it is being utterly torn apart by the likes of this needless fixture.

If the WRU makes a profit from this game and it filters down towards domestic rugby I think you should care about it.

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