Etzebeth to Toulon

by **Biltong** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 4:20 am

Planet Rugby wrote:According to local paper Var Matin, the Springbok lock will join the club from the South of France after next year's World Cup.

It would be a major coup for Mourad Boudjellal, who will lose Botha at the end of the season when he hangs up his boots.

Clermont Auvergne were believed to be keen on signing Etzebeth from the Stormers, but it seems his heart is set on Toulon.

Etzebeth would join the likes of Mamuka Gorgodze, Ali Williams, Romain Taofifenua and Jocelino Suta as second row options next year, while Samu Manoa is also believed to have signed for the club.

The 23-year-old Etzebeth has 33 Springbok caps to his name since making his debut back in 2012.

by **Biltong** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 4:22 am

It's becoming a bit pathetic when SARU can't even hold onto their 23 year old Springboks.

It is time they lay down the law, no overseas players for the Boks, our domestic rugby is suffering because of this, how many more players can Europe and Japan accommodate?

by **George Carlin** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 6:52 am

Oh jaysus, that was predictable.

by doctor_grey Mon 08 Dec 2014, 6:58 am

Biltong wrote:It's becoming a bit pathetic when SARU can't even hold onto their 23 year old Springboks.

It is time they lay down the law, no overseas players for the Boks, our domestic rugby is suffering because of this, how many more players can Europe and Japan accommodate?

Agree. This is bad for Rugby.
You are probably right in your approach, as I can't see any middle ground.

by **Notch** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 7:57 am

This is getting ridiculous now. What more evidence do the SARU need to change their policy on overseas players?

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 8:25 am

Us Welsh have been living with this for years now, first we lost a whole generation to rugby league, now we have been losing our best players to the rich clubs in France and England, I know exactly how frustrating it is, but just remember, you bring an over seas policy in and it WILL affect your national side, you cannot blame a player wanting to earn more money elsewhere, perhaps your union should bring central contracts or dual contracts like we are doing, to stem the tide.

by bedfordwelsh Mon 08 Dec 2014, 8:37 am

Biltong,

Didn't you use to have an overseas policy a while back, why did they change it?

by **Notch** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 8:41 am

LordDowlais wrote:Us Welsh have been living with this for years now, first we lost a whole generation to rugby league, now we have been losing our best players to the rich clubs in France and England, I know exactly how frustrating it is, but just remember, you bring an over seas policy in and it WILL affect your national side, you cannot blame a player wanting to earn more money elsewhere, perhaps your union should bring central contracts or dual contracts like we are doing, to stem the tide.

You do understand that the SARU already have central contracts right?

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 8:53 am

Notch wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Us Welsh have been living with this for years now, first we lost a whole generation to rugby league, now we have been losing our best players to the rich clubs in France and England, I know exactly how frustrating it is, but just remember, you bring an over seas policy in and it WILL affect your national side, you cannot blame a player wanting to earn more money elsewhere, perhaps your union should bring central contracts or dual contracts like we are doing, to stem the tide.

You do understand that the SARU already have central contracts right?

No, I did not know that. Anyway, it does not change anything, we have been living with this type of thing for a whole lot longer than anyone else. steam

by Guest Mon 08 Dec 2014, 9:14 am

I think Argentina and the pacific island teams have it worse than us.

Problem is if you enforce a no overseas players policy, it can go either way, either players will not care and leave for the money anyway, or you will retain them. In the short term all of your great overseas players will make the national side a lot weaker.

by **George Carlin** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 9:18 am

I assume that Big Ezzy is starting with Toulon after the RWC?
Expect more of this sort of deal to be annouced over the coming months.

by HammerofThunor Mon 08 Dec 2014, 9:36 am

IronMike wrote:I think Argentina and the pacific island teams have it worse than us.

Problem is if you enforce a no overseas players policy, it can go either way, either players will not care and leave for the money anyway, or you will retain them. In the short term all of your great overseas players will make the national side a lot weaker.

But it shouldn't be all about the short term success of the national side. Even if the best players go, it is still possible to make a stronger team without the disruption of those overseas players.

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 9:45 am

IronMike wrote:I think Argentina and the pacific island teams have it worse than us.

Yes, but they do not have any pro rygby in thier own countries, in Wales we lost a whole generation to league, now we are seeing all our best players being snapped up by rich English, and even richer French clubs, as we speak I am hearing romours of Tipuric and Liam Williams being eyed up by French clubs waving Euros infront of them. No wonder our regions do not make any noises in the CC.

by HammerofThunor Mon 08 Dec 2014, 9:50 am

To be honest, I think the Australians have the hardest time. They've been competing with league for a lot longer than the Welsh. They also lose players to the richer clubs, except they're the other side of the world, rather than nextdoor. But they have strict non-slection policies to stem the flow a bit, even if it does massively hamper them.

by **rodders** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 9:54 am

Well lifetime bans didn't stop Welsh and English players moving to league in the 90s so I don't really see what can be done here. Careers are short and players need to earn what they can, whilst they can.

This is just the unfortunate side affect of more money coming into the game and the weakening power of the Unions vs the top clubs and money men.

As the game grows in Japan and the USA expect even more of this.

The only solultion is to hold the 2023 RWC in Ireland and get the SA teams into the Pro12.

by HammerofThunor Mon 08 Dec 2014, 9:56 am

rodders wrote:Well lifetime bans didn't stop Welsh and English players moving to league in the 90s so I don't really see what can be done here. Careers are short and players need to earn what they can, whilst they can.

This is just the unfortunate side affect of more money coming into the game and the weakening power of the Unions vs the top clubs and money men.

As the game grows in Japan and the USA expect even more of this.

The only solultion is to hold the 2023 RWC in Ireland and get the SA teams into the Pro12.

by beshocked Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:04 am

Lorddowlais Wales only has itself to blame - should have had in place - if you want to play for Wales internationally you must play in Wales. Too late for that now.

The likes of Ireland and NZ have been less affected because of their policies.

by HammerofThunor Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:14 am

Does Ireland have a 'policy' on this? Or do they just tend to retain their best players? Partly because they're able to pay them well, coach them well, etc.

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:15 am

beshocked wrote:Lorddowlais Wales only has itself to blame - should have had in place - if you want to play for Wales internationally you must play in Wales. Too late for that now.

The likes of Ireland and NZ have been less affected because of their policies.

If we had that, we would be back in the same place as the early ninetees/late eightees where all our players were playing RL and we were getting battered every international game we played in. I am sorry, but there must be some middle ground, you cannot stop a player/person from earning more money if it is on offer, you also cannot discriminate them because of their abilities, if they are good enough to earn twice as much elsewhere, then they should not be penalised for doing it either, what should be perhaps done, is pressure put on the individual unions to make sure that clubs have a majority of players from their own country, although that could cause lots of legal issues, perhaps a world wide salary cap ? I do not know, but punishing individuals for working hard and getting paid more elswhere is also wrong, it happens in all other walks of life, why should rugby be any different ? What I would like to see is some sort of compensation for clubs who develope players, but then do not see the benefit of the said player because big spending clubs snap them up by flashing money infront of them.

by The Saint Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:17 am

If SA had all their players playing in SA they'd be in a much better position to get No.1 spot in world rugby.

by **rodders** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:20 am

HammerofThunor wrote:Does Ireland have a 'policy' on this? Or do they just tend to retain their best players? Partly because they're able to pay them well, coach them well, etc.

Well preference is definitely given to the home based players but as we've seen with the likes of Bowe a few years ago and more recently Sexton, if the players are good enough they'll still get picked.

Kudos to the IRFU - they've managed to buck the trend generally and retain most of the best players. I think there are a couple of reasons which has helped them - one the provinces have been pretty successful over the last decade and the other is that the players play less games and are well looked after.

by BamBam Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:22 am

LordDowlais wrote:
beshocked wrote:Lorddowlais Wales only has itself to blame - should have had in place - if you want to play for Wales internationally you must play in Wales. Too late for that now.

The likes of Ireland and NZ have been less affected because of their policies.

If we had that, we would be back in the same place as the early ninetees/late eightees where all our players were playing RL and we were getting battered every international game we played in. I am sorry, but there must be some middle ground, you cannot stop a player/person from earning more money if it is on offer, you also cannot discriminate them because of their abilities, if they are good enough to earn twice as much elsewhere, then they should not be penalised for doing it either, what should be perhaps done, is pressure put on the individual unions to make sure that clubs have a majority of players from their own country, although that could cause lots of legal issues, perhaps a world wide salary cap ? I do not know, but punishing individuals for working hard and getting paid more elswhere is also wrong, it happens in all other walks of life, why should rugby be any different ? What I would like to see is some sort of compensation for clubs who develope players, but then do not see the benefit of the said player because big spending clubs snap them up by flashing money infront of them.

I agree with you to an extent, but I like to think of it as the players are free to go earn the money they like and are able to earn, but playing for the country is a privilege, and to do so they must follow the rules of the union. Its why I have no problem with the stance on Steffon Armitage

Regarding compensation for clubs who develop players, going back to your point on all other walks of life, would your employer get any kind of compensation if at the end of your contract you choose to leave to work somewhere else who is offering you more money/lifestyle or whatever other reason you choose to move for?

by bluestonevedder Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:25 am

I can understand the older guys like Bakkies and Williams heading there, but losing Etzebeth is a terrible dent for SARU.

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:32 am

BamBam wrote:Regarding compensation for clubs who develop players, going back to your point on all other walks of life, would your employer get any kind of compensation if at the end of your contract you choose to leave to work somewhere else who is offering you more money/lifestyle or whatever other reason you choose to move for?.

If I have any people working for me, and it is well within my right to do so, and I put them on a college course to learn anything, and I pay for it, if they up sticks and work for another employer, for whatever reason, I am well within my right to make that person pay for his college fees that I have paid to put him through college, now weather or not he/she negotiates with their new employer to pay for it is up to them, but I am well within my right to do so, I tell ALL my employees this, also if they up sticks, they must pay me for all the tools I have purchased for them as well.

by beshocked Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:34 am

LordDowlais wrote:
beshocked wrote:Lorddowlais Wales only has itself to blame - should have had in place - if you want to play for Wales internationally you must play in Wales. Too late for that now.

The likes of Ireland and NZ have been less affected because of their policies.

If we had that, we would be back in the same place as the early ninetees/late eightees where all our players were playing RL and we were getting battered every international game we played in. I am sorry, but there must be some middle ground, you cannot stop a player/person from earning more money if it is on offer, you also cannot discriminate them because of their abilities, if they are good enough to earn twice as much elsewhere, then they should not be penalised for doing it either, what should be perhaps done, is pressure put on the individual unions to make sure that clubs have a majority of players from their own country, although that could cause lots of legal issues, perhaps a world wide salary cap ? I do not know, but punishing individuals for working hard and getting paid more elswhere is also wrong, it happens in all other walks of life, why should rugby be any different ? What I would like to see is some sort of compensation for clubs who develope players, but then do not see the benefit of the said player because big spending clubs snap them up by flashing money infront of them.

Lorddowlais you let the horse bolt - the policy should have been in place since at least 2008. It's only in the last 5-6 years when Wales have really been hit hard IMO.

If you hadn't let your prize possessions go then the Welsh clubs would have been in a stronger position now - you only have yourselves to blame.

You need to stop people if you want to protect the national side - England aren't picking Steffon Armitage. If he wants to play for England he must come back to England - if he wants to chase the big money in France it's his choice.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:37 am

LordDowlais wrote:
If I have any people working for me, and it is well within my right to do so, and I put them on a college course to learn anything, and I pay for it, if they up sticks and work for another employer, for whatever reason, I am well within my right to make that person pay for his college fees that I have paid to put him through college, now weather or not he/she negotiates with their new employer to pay for it is up to them, but I am well within my right to do so, I tell ALL my employees this, also if they up sticks, they must pay me for all the tools I have purchased for them as well.

I will have to look up the legal case, but an employer was found in breach of the law when they tried to put a similar clause in their employees contracts. Things are different if someone leaves during the course (though I am sure you are unable, legally, to reclaim for training already undertaken) - but after they have completed said course I believe it is illegal to do as you say you do.

by **rodders** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:46 am

In fairness I don't think Etzebeth's the kind of fellow you go hounding for a reimbursement of college fees, if that's what is being suggested here.

by **Biltong** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:48 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:Biltong,

Didn't you use to have an overseas policy a while back, why did they change it?

Heyneke Meyer implemented it, it was a big mistake from the start.

by **Biltong** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:49 am

Notch wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Us Welsh have been living with this for years now, first we lost a whole generation to rugby league, now we have been losing our best players to the rich clubs in France and England, I know exactly how frustrating it is, but just remember, you bring an over seas policy in and it WILL affect your national side, you cannot blame a player wanting to earn more money elsewhere, perhaps your union should bring central contracts or dual contracts like we are doing, to stem the tide.

You do understand that the SARU already have central contracts right?

No we don't mate, SARU has only 20 contracted Springboks.

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:49 am

LondonTiger wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
If I have any people working for me, and it is well within my right to do so, and I put them on a college course to learn anything, and I pay for it, if they up sticks and work for another employer, for whatever reason, I am well within my right to make that person pay for his college fees that I have paid to put him through college, now weather or not he/she negotiates with their new employer to pay for it is up to them, but I am well within my right to do so, I tell ALL my employees this, also if they up sticks, they must pay me for all the tools I have purchased for them as well.

I will have to look up the legal case, but an employer was found in breach of the law when they tried to put a similar clause in their employees contracts. Things are different if someone leaves during the course (though I am sure you are unable, legally, to reclaim for training already undertaken) - but after they have completed said course I believe it is illegal to do as you say you do.

I make sure they get government help for their payment now, I was stung once, I have taken legal advice and I will not be stung again, I give them the option, they either pay for it themselves, and all their equipment, or I pay and they must pay me back at the end of their employment, unless they have been with me for years and then I just let it go, the thing is, one person came to work for me as an apprentice, I put him through college, and paid him, gave him all his tools, and as soon as he passed his course he went out and started on his own, as an employer I do have rights against that sort of thing.

by **Biltong** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:51 am

HammerofThunor wrote:To be honest, I think the Australians have the hardest time. They've been competing with league for a lot longer than the Welsh. They also lose players to the richer clubs, except they're the other side of the world, rather than nextdoor. But they have strict non-slection policies to stem the flow a bit, even if it does massively hamper them.

Australian players earn a lot more than SA or NZ players because the revenue the ARU earns is not used to develop rugby at roots level.

by **Biltong** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:54 am

bluestonevedder wrote:I can understand the older guys like Bakkies and Williams heading there, but losing Etzebeth is a terrible dent for SARU.

The problem is, it isn't only Etzebeth, we lost Goosen at age 20, Paul Willemse only 21 is also leaving for France, Juandre Kruger became a Bok and immediately signed for a club in France.

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:54 am

Biltong wrote:Australian players earn a lot more than SA or NZ players because the revenue the ARU earns is not used to develop rugby at roots level..

Am I right in thinking that they cream off the tallent that does not make it in league ?

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:57 am

Biltong wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:I can understand the older guys like Bakkies and Williams heading there, but losing Etzebeth is a terrible dent for SARU.

The problem is, it isn't only Etzebeth, we lost Goosen at age 20, Paul Willemse only 21 is also leaving for France, Juandre Kruger became a Bok and immediately signed for a club in France.

I feel or you Bil, I realy do, George North was only 20 when he went to Northampton, Leigh Halfpenny was only 24 when he went to Toulon, Lydiate was 24 when he went, all our players are being pulled in by the big money men.

by beshocked Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:59 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Biltong wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:I can understand the older guys like Bakkies and Williams heading there, but losing Etzebeth is a terrible dent for SARU.

The problem is, it isn't only Etzebeth, we lost Goosen at age 20, Paul Willemse only 21 is also leaving for France, Juandre Kruger became a Bok and immediately signed for a club in France.

I feel or you Bil, I realy do, George North was only 20 when he went to Northampton, Leigh Halfpenny was only 24 when he went to Toulon, Lydiate was 24 when he went, all our players are being pulled in by the big money men.

That's what happens when you pick players who player in foreign leagues and teams.

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:01 am

beshocked wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Biltong wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:I can understand the older guys like Bakkies and Williams heading there, but losing Etzebeth is a terrible dent for SARU.

The problem is, it isn't only Etzebeth, we lost Goosen at age 20, Paul Willemse only 21 is also leaving for France, Juandre Kruger became a Bok and immediately signed for a club in France.

I feel or you Bil, I realy do, George North was only 20 when he went to Northampton, Leigh Halfpenny was only 24 when he went to Toulon, Lydiate was 24 when he went, all our players are being pulled in by the big money men.

That's what happens when you pick players who player in foreign leagues and teams.

What ? What happens ?

by BamBam Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:03 am

LordDowlais wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
If I have any people working for me, and it is well within my right to do so, and I put them on a college course to learn anything, and I pay for it, if they up sticks and work for another employer, for whatever reason, I am well within my right to make that person pay for his college fees that I have paid to put him through college, now weather or not he/she negotiates with their new employer to pay for it is up to them, but I am well within my right to do so, I tell ALL my employees this, also if they up sticks, they must pay me for all the tools I have purchased for them as well.

I will have to look up the legal case, but an employer was found in breach of the law when they tried to put a similar clause in their employees contracts. Things are different if someone leaves during the course (though I am sure you are unable, legally, to reclaim for training already undertaken) - but after they have completed said course I believe it is illegal to do as you say you do.

I make sure they get government help for their payment now, I was stung once, I have taken legal advice and I will not be stung again, I give them the option, they either pay for it themselves, and all their equipment, or I pay and they must pay me back at the end of their employment, unless they have been with me for years and then I just let it go, the thing is, one person came to work for me as an apprentice, I put him through college, and paid him, gave him all his tools, and as soon as he passed his course he went out and started on his own, as an employer I do have rights against that sort of thing.

I reckon you're right in that example LD, but I work for a company who has paid for me to complete a set of professional exams, and I signed a three year contract when I joined. That contract is up in Sept 2015, and if I choose to leave and go elsewhere they have no right to ask me to pay the fees for the exams, or the college fees etc, this is proven by the countless people before me who have left. If I was to leave within my 3 year contract, then yes I would be liable

I think this is the situation for rugby players and clubs too, as far as I know these players are moving at the end of their contracts, are they not? I just struggle to see a situation in which compensation for clubs losing players makes sense, as it goes against free movement rules if players are then unable to move when out of contract because their new clubs don't want to pay compensation

by alive555 Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:03 am

Notch wrote:This is getting ridiculous now. What more evidence do the SARU need to change their policy on overseas players?

so that means no etzebeth in wc for SA ?

by **Biltong** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:07 am

alive555 wrote:
Notch wrote:This is getting ridiculous now. What more evidence do the SARU need to change their policy on overseas players?

so that means no etzebeth in wc for SA ?

Policy currently allows overseas players.

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:10 am

BamBam wrote:I reckon you're right in that example LD, but I work for a company who has paid for me to complete a set of professional exams, and I signed a three year contract when I joined. That contract is up in Sept 2015, and if I choose to leave and go elsewhere they have no right to ask me to pay the fees for the exams, or the college fees etc, this is proven by the countless people before me who have left. If I was to leave within my 3 year contract, then yes I would be liable

Yes that is what I was told, I could start offering contracts for X amount of years, but that is not sensible in my line of work, so I have my leagle eagle to put clauses in now before I send them off on their merry way, anyway, this is about the BIG mony men in rugby, and I am certainly not one of them, so what could we do about these clubs taking our best and brightest after our own clubs have invested so much into making them the players they are ?

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:13 am

BamBam wrote:I just struggle to see a situation in which compensation for clubs losing players makes sense, as it goes against free movement rules if players are then unable to move when out of contract because their new clubs don't want to pay compensation.

Don't they have such a thing in football, if a young player is signed by another club, and he is under a certain age, then compo must be paid ?

by whocares Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:18 am

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:I just struggle to see a situation in which compensation for clubs losing players makes sense, as it goes against free movement rules if players are then unable to move when out of contract because their new clubs don't want to pay compensation.

Don't they have such a thing in football, if a young player is signed by another club, and he is under a certain age, then compo must be paid ?

yes they have and even after the 1st transfer the clubs that were involved in the player development still get a percentage of future transfers which is nice as this when players get a higher value. might not be much but when a small amateur outfit gets a few tens of thousand euro it helps! in rugby there is no tranfer fees between clubs (thanks god) so it would need to be something based on the salary.

by beshocked Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:18 am

LordDowlais wrote:
beshocked wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Biltong wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:I can understand the older guys like Bakkies and Williams heading there, but losing Etzebeth is a terrible dent for SARU.

The problem is, it isn't only Etzebeth, we lost Goosen at age 20, Paul Willemse only 21 is also leaving for France, Juandre Kruger became a Bok and immediately signed for a club in France.

I feel or you Bil, I realy do, George North was only 20 when he went to Northampton, Leigh Halfpenny was only 24 when he went to Toulon, Lydiate was 24 when he went, all our players are being pulled in by the big money men.

That's what happens when you pick players who player in foreign leagues and teams.

What ? What happens ?

You open the flood gates and you moan about the situation.

by broadlandboy Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:19 am

Bilt are not all SA teams Union controlled (like Ireland & NZ) so effectively all players are under Union contracts?

by HammerofThunor Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:23 am

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:I reckon you're right in that example LD, but I work for a company who has paid for me to complete a set of professional exams, and I signed a three year contract when I joined. That contract is up in Sept 2015, and if I choose to leave and go elsewhere they have no right to ask me to pay the fees for the exams, or the college fees etc, this is proven by the countless people before me who have left. If I was to leave within my 3 year contract, then yes I would be liable

Yes that is what I was told, I could start offering contracts for X amount of years, but that is not sensible in my line of work, so I have my leagle eagle to put clauses in now before I send them off on their merry way, anyway, this is about the BIG mony men in rugby, and I am certainly not one of them, so what could we do about these clubs taking our best and brightest after our own clubs have invested so much into making them the players they are ?

Give them incentives to stay that aren't just about money? Good coaching, looking after them when they're injured (didn't Scarlets dump some players [Gavin Thomas?] while they were injured?), and yes, international rugby.

Regarding compensation, there is an agreement in Football but it's by the Football League, so only covers movement within it. A player could go to Spain for nothing. Similar to the George North fine for Saints, they did nothing wrong as such but were in an agreement with the rest of the clubs not to do it. So you need to get agreement from all the teams involved to sort it out.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:24 am

LordDowlais wrote:
so what could we do about these clubs taking our best and brightest after our own clubs have invested so much into making them the players they are ?

Give the players longer contracts - then the club is entitled to compensation.

by LordDowlais Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:24 am

beshocked wrote:You open the flood gates and you moan about the situation..

Thats easy for you to say when your club is one of the main offenders. When you support a team that is constantly having their players rapped from them then we could see if you attitude changes.

by HammerofThunor Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:26 am

LondonTiger wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
so what could we do about these clubs taking our best and brightest after our own clubs have invested so much into making them the players they are ?

Give the players longer contracts - then the club is entitled to compensation.

But that means they can't cast them aside if they're not up to it. Shocked

by **LondonTiger** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:27 am

HammerofThunor wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
so what could we do about these clubs taking our best and brightest after our own clubs have invested so much into making them the players they are ?

Give the players longer contracts - then the club is entitled to compensation.

But that means they can't cast them aside if they're not up to it.

Indeed. Loyalty is a two way street I guess.

by **Biltong** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:29 am

broadlandboy wrote:Bilt are not all SA teams Union controlled (like Ireland & NZ) so effectively all players are under Union contracts?

No mate, Bulls contract Bulls players, Stormers contract Stormer players etc.

SARU only contracts Boks, and then only those they believe will be around. Players that play overseas don't get bok contracts.

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