FA Cup Final Thread - 2014/15 season

by Fernando Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:28 pm

First topic message reminder :

FA Cup Final

Arsenal vs Aston Villa

by kingraf Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:46 am

If impeding without contact is a penalty... then I think we all know why you can't find a decent defender anywhere.

by westisbest Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:33 am

who ever wins our game, hope they get winner of Bradford v Reading.

I know a lot of people would want to see Liverpool v Man u/Arsenal.

For me i like the lesser team v the stronger team.
Magic of the cup.

Don't watch much football when the Villa are not playing, but would only watch the cup final if the above happened.

Beat West Brom and we are back at Wembley. Although i dont like the semi's at Wembley.

I feel we are gonna slide right under the radar and get to the final. Then who knows.

Why the fk not, at this stage anything could happen.

3 games till the quarters, lets see how we play under Sherwood.
Surely cant be any worse than under Lambert.

by FootballLight Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:37 am

One of Bradford or Reading will be in the Semi-Finals of the FA Cup. That's the same with Villa and West Brom as well. If Villa get through to the SF's for example, they will face Bradford/Reading and all the other potential possibilities. I don't mind the odd shock to live up to the "FA Cup magic" scheme that everyone wants to see every season, but I don't like seeing Middlesbrough against Man City. That means 1 top team has left the competition, so the competition lacks quality then I think. Middlesbrough aren't going to win the competition (obviously because they are out now) no matter who they play.

I'd rather see a shock like Bradford vs Sunderland because if you put all the teams back in the competition again from Round Three, Sunderland probably wouldn't win the FA Cup. Whereas someone like Man City (or Chelsea) who have gone out to lower league opposition will be more likely to win the competition. This is why we end up with games like Villa vs Leicester on Sunday, just 2 poor PL teams playing so poorly and playing boring football. For the entertainment value, I'd have rather have seen Man City vs Leicester for example because at least you know someone like Man City will probably win and produce good quality for neutrals.

That's just my view on the FA Cup, especially this season anyway.

by **hampo17** Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:01 am

By the letter of the law, kindly posted by Duty, that was a penalty. The goalkeeper will have known if he challenges there and misses the ball then it's likely he'll trip Rooney, a soft one yes but by the letter of the law a foul.

The sad part is that Rooney doesn't need to go down, he stays on his feet he scores and he's gone down for nothing more in my opinion than to get the keeper sent off.

by FootballLight Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:12 am

It was a penalty. Although, Rooney couldn't have stood up because not only did he take the ball further away from goal, he wouldn't have caught it as he belted it away from him. Laugh

He played for it.

But for me, they should always be red cards because its denying a goalscoring opportunity when the keeper comes from his net. Even if the goalkeeper is 50 yards from goal and commits a foul, he's still denying a goalscoring opportunity because its pretty easy to score without a keeper. He wouldn't have to shoot from 50 yards, he could just take it forward a little bit further and then slot it away.

The only things keepers should be booked for is time wasting and accidental handball (if he just comes out of his area with the ball still in his hands). Everything else that he could do to a player on the pitch should be red for me. Correct me though if there are still some soft fouls though.

by VTR Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:45 am

FootballLight wrote:One of Bradford or Reading will be in the Semi-Finals of the FA Cup. That's the same with Villa and West Brom as well. If Villa get through to the SF's for example, they will face Bradford/Reading and all the other potential possibilities. I don't mind the odd shock to live up to the "FA Cup magic" scheme that everyone wants to see every season, but I don't like seeing Middlesbrough against Man City. That means 1 top team has left the competition, so the competition lacks quality then I think. Middlesbrough aren't going to win the competition (obviously because they are out now) no matter who they play.

I'd rather see a shock like Bradford vs Sunderland because if you put all the teams back in the competition again from Round Three, Sunderland probably wouldn't win the FA Cup. Whereas someone like Man City (or Chelsea) who have gone out to lower league opposition will be more likely to win the competition. This is why we end up with games like Villa vs Leicester on Sunday, just 2 poor PL teams playing so poorly and playing boring football. For the entertainment value, I'd have rather have seen Man City vs Leicester for example because at least you know someone like Man City will probably win and produce good quality for neutrals.

That's just my view on the FA Cup, especially this season anyway.

So by that reckoning Wigan wouldn't have won the cup as they wouldn't be allowed in the final in the first place. I would rather see a Bradford vs Man U final or similar than Chelsea vs Man City part 60. One of the most boring finals I have ever seen was Man U vs. Chelsea, in 2007 I think it was. Also that Arsenal vs Man U final that ended in penalties.

You should really get a job at Sky so you can drool over Super Sunday and players setting Premier League Records.

by **hampo17** Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:49 am

This season the FA Cup has been superb, so many shocks. I'd rather see a tournament like that than the same old teams reaching the later rounds. These teams have earnt the right to play in a semi final and wanting to take that away from them is clueless.

by VTR Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:13 pm

hampo171 wrote:This season the FA Cup has been superb, so many shocks. I'd rather see a tournament like that than the same old teams reaching the later rounds. These teams have earnt the right to play in a semi final and wanting to take that away from them is clueless.

Exactly. If someone desperately wants to see Man City vs Chelsea, then they are already "treated" to the battle of the chequebook twice a season anyway. Last year was a cracking final, Hull had a real go in a very open game. The year before with Wigan winning was good to watch as well.

by Derbymanc Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:54 pm

FootballLight wrote:It was a penalty. Although, Rooney couldn't have stood up because not only did he take the ball further away from goal, he wouldn't have caught it as he belted it away from him. He played for it.

But for me, they should always be red cards because its denying a goalscoring opportunity when the keeper comes from his net. Even if the goalkeeper is 50 yards from goal and commits a foul, he's still denying a goalscoring opportunity because its pretty easy to score without a keeper. He wouldn't have to shoot from 50 yards, he could just take it forward a little bit further and then slot it away.

The only things keepers should be booked for is time wasting and accidental handball (if he just comes out of his area with the ball still in his hands). Everything else that he could do to a player on the pitch should be red for me. Correct me though if there are still some soft fouls though.

That's absolutely ridiculous and would end up in more diving than we had now. A keeper should be protected by the rules of the game, not punished every time they try and make a tackle outside the box etc.

Divings a blight on the game and if you started sending the keeper off for every minor tackle that was slightly mistimed etc it would just increase and increase.

P.S The FA cup contested by one of the top 6 for the 50th time is one of the reasons (for me) it's starting to lose it's luster. Here's hoping Reading or Bradford make the final and play there socks off. Nice to see teams that want to win it for the glory rather than just to take up a space in the cabinet.

by **hampo17** Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Don't worry Derby, he contradicted himself in his own post. Firstly he claims Rooney couldn't have stood up because he took the ball away from goal, but then all keepers should be sent off for fouls because every foul they commit is stopping a goal scoring opportunity.

He's missing the most important word, clear. As soon as Rooney kicked that ball away from goal it stops being a clear goal scoring opportunity, and a goalkeeper fouling someone 50 yards out certainly isn't a clear goal scoring opportunity unless he's been completed abandoned by his defenders.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:41 pm

What class shown by Grayson in the aftermath of the Rooney incident.

by Derbymanc Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:47 pm

I disagree Hammer, looked at it again and it looks like a dive plain and simple, no contact at all. If you can't condemn that then you shouldn't be complaining the next time anyone else does it.

Grayson's got to keep him sweet so Preston will continue to benefit from the possibility of loans and that.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:07 pm

He has to go down, it's a sad fact.

by mystiroakey Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:26 pm

Is diving over a challenge supposedly worse than putting your foot into two flying out studs?

either way it was a penalty- but no contact was made because he hurdled it and then maybe dived,maybe slipped- but certainly hurdled a reckless challenge.

I dont believe he was trying to get the keeper sent of- I think he was just trying to win the penalty but also not injure himself at the same time.

by Guest Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:51 pm

Some embarrassing comments about this, it's a definite penalty. Keeper is recklessly diving in, misses the ball & the momentum of Rooney is such, that his only real option is to dive, in order to avoid serious injury & win a possible penalty, which goes through every players' mind, given that situation. That really should be the end of that debate.

by Derbymanc Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:54 pm

His studs weren't up at all Oakey, videa attached has a perfect angle. It's a dive plain and simple, regardless of if he was looking to get him sent off, get a penalty or was gonna turn it into a backflip.

Your all quick to moan when someone else dives but when it's your own team then it's okay. If your happy to see diving in the modern game then be happy with it, if not then call it what it is.

by Derbymanc Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:55 pm

John wrote:Some embarrassing comments about this, it's a definite penalty. Keeper is recklessly diving in, misses the ball & the momentum of Rooney is such, that his only real option is to dive, in order to avoid serious injury & win a possible penalty, which goes through every players' mind, given that situation. That really should be the end of that debate.

No he could have taken another step and been fine.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:18 pm

I'm not a Manc by birth, locality or football team and I don't think it's a dive.

Then again, I also don't hate diving with the passion some do. It is merely a foul, much like shirt pulling and other tricks defenders pull. Or the defenders who clip a player then get up and pretend they haven't.

by Derbymanc Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:24 pm

I can't see how it's anything but Dolph, there was no contact, no slipping and he looks to be in complete control at all time.

I frickin hate diving with a passion and am massively in favour of retrospective punishment (ban the fookers for 3 games it'll soon stop) but the way you've described it is also spot on and that just makes me sad Sad

by mystiroakey Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:03 pm

Derbymanc wrote:His studs weren't up at all Oakey, videa attached has a perfect angle. It's a dive plain and simple, regardless of if he was looking to get him sent off, get a penalty or was gonna turn it into a backflip.

Your all quick to moan when someone else dives but when it's your own team then it's okay. If your happy to see diving in the modern game then be happy with it, if not then call it what it is.

You think Man U is my team laughing

by **hampo17** Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:04 pm

Dwight Gayle dived twice against us, got Henderson booked with the first one and tried to get Sturridge with the other, did you criticise him? Wink

by Derbymanc Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:13 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:His studs weren't up at all Oakey, videa attached has a perfect angle. It's a dive plain and simple, regardless of if he was looking to get him sent off, get a penalty or was gonna turn it into a backflip.

Your all quick to moan when someone else dives but when it's your own team then it's okay. If your happy to see diving in the modern game then be happy with it, if not then call it what it is.

You think Man U is my team

For some reason I did Oakey, dunno where I got that from?????????????? (Think I got you mixed up with ent)

Point still stands, your all quick to moan about diving then when a blatant one crops up it's all fine. Are you sure your not a ref Wink

by mystiroakey Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:13 pm

South London and Proud pal

#Gladallover

by Derbymanc Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:17 pm

mystiroakey wrote:South London and Proud pal

#Gladallover

Is that you admitting your a Man U fan then?

by mystiroakey Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:18 pm

what!!!

No

The mighty Eagles pal.

Who do you support?

by Derbymanc Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:19 pm

I was kidding by the way Oakey Wink

I'm a born and bred Manc..........................................................................................................................................................who happens to support Derby County

by mystiroakey Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:21 pm

Nice one. You are on one hell of a ride in the champs.

by Derbymanc Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:23 pm

Cheers Oaks,

We're not doing too bad, Am obviously loving us doing well but still undecided whether I want us to go and be a tiny fish in a big pond next year (although we can't do any worse than last time Smile

)

by mystiroakey Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:26 pm

Its exactly how I felt before we came up- That realisation of being huge favs to go down the season after hit me as soon as i got out of wembley stadium!

The championship is one of the best sporting leagues in the world IMO..

But its panned out ok for us(touch wood)- so it could for you

by sportform Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:33 pm

Duty281 wrote:Horrific decision to allow that goal to stand.

Lowlandbrit wrote:
NickisBHAFC wrote:1. United first goal - Offside. Rooney clearly in a offside position, doesn't touch the ball but keeper can't see anything.
At no point was he between the keeper and the ball...

He wasn't interfering with play... Unless the goalkeeper hesitated because he thought Rooney might get a touch and send the ball the opposite way.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Fernando wrote:Preston 1-1 Man Utd - Ander Herrera

Rooney was interfering with play surely?

He is yes but under the current offside rules he's not active until he touches the ball, load of old garbage.

So why do linesmen continuously put the flag up when an offside player, walking back onside, turns to chase a ball?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You mean the midfielder who had his best season playing up top for Everton as a target?
Or are you talking about the inept LVG who has won league titles with four different teams in three different leagues?

But wait for it the novice Ryan Giggs would be a better option.

Fellani played at his best when he was playing just off the striker at Everton. He has never really played there for Man United. He has mostly played in a deeper midfielder role at Old Trafford.

LiamB wrote:No, keeper is doing his job, made himself big, didn't touch ROONEY either. I'll blame the incompetent, out of shape dowd, who fell for the dive & gave a penalty for a quiet clear dive.

Definite penalty. Yes Rooney did dive but doesn't mean it wasn't a penalty. The keeper came out, didn't get the ball, hindered Rooney's stride. If Rooney continues his run he gets taken out. There doesn't have to be contact to be a 'foul'.

Fernando wrote:
Stella wrote:
LiamB wrote:What a dive, dowd has been awful

Blame the keeper.

Why he has the right to come for the ball? It's not his fault Rooney is nothing but a cheat.

He has a right to come for the ball but he didn't get the ball and hindered Rooney's run. Rooney didn't have to go down but then probably wouldn't have got the penalty. Obstruction at the very least,

by monty junior Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:35 pm

Hilarious i remember all the ITV and MOTD pundits firing in to foreigners over the years for diving yet when Michael Owen would do it time and again in the world cup they would call it "clever" or "cheeky". It was a flat out dive from Rooney, no two ways about it. A shame as i thought Preston deserved a result last night.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:03 pm

SF

In the instance of yesterday, Rooney wasn't interfering with play as he didn't touch the ball nor did he look like he was going to. An offside player making an active decision to chase a long ball or whatever is interfering and is thus active.

by Stella Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:15 pm

I know it's a bit grey, and I admit, I'm unsure of the rule, but he must have been interfering with play, as the keeper was anticipating a touch?

by Hammersmith harrier Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:21 pm

Of course but the rules aren't like that, personally think anybody in an offside position within 30 yards of the goal should be flagged regardless, it interferes with the defensive line and shape.

by Ent Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:45 pm

Was a dive but I've no sympathy for the keeper, Wreckless.

by GSC Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:56 pm

I hate the defense if he didnt go down he wouldn't have got a penalty. He deliberately threw himself to the ground to gain an advantage unfairly.

Therefore he dived. Theres no defense for diving.

by Stella Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:59 pm

To be fair to Rooney, I've seen him stay on his feet quite a few times.

by westisbest Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:01 pm

Derbymanc wrote: Cheers Oaks,

We're not doing too bad, Am obviously loving us doing well but still undecided whether I want us to go and be a tiny fish in a big pond next year (although we can't do any worse than last time )

No, we've taken over that title.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:08 pm

Impede someone and they go down, your fault. If your bad challenge means I can't get to the ball then I will make no effort to stay on my feet

by Derbymanc Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:33 pm

bollox, was he incapable of jumping the challenge and getting the ball, yes. Did he fluff his lines and overhit it, yes. Only way to salvage it was to throw himself to the floor.

Diving is a flippin blight on the game, end of.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:35 pm

Are you suggesting the keeper shouldn't have been penalised for what was a fairly reckless challenge that got no near the ball but did impede the attacking player?

by GSC Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:52 pm

Derbymanc wrote:bollox, was he incapable of jumping the challenge and getting the ball, yes. Did he fluff his lines and overhit it, yes. Only way to salvage it was to throw himself to the floor.

Diving is a flippin blight on the game, end of.

Exactly

by Derbymanc Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:53 pm

I don't class it as wreckless HH, studs pointing to the floor, Rooney nowhere near him

by Ent Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:57 pm

He charged out to a non threatening area of his box and dove into a challenge he was never going to get to, never mind win.

Whilst he was in no danger of hurting rooney it was Wreckless play and fairly stupid on his part. I've no sympathy for him.

by Derbymanc Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:46 am

Like I said, just remember this the next time your screaming diver at an opposition player. Wink

Part of the reason diving is accepted in the sport is fans and managers blase attitude towards it.

by **hampo17** Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:50 am

It's not just that though Derby, Rooney doesn't get a foul there if he stays up, but by the letter of the law it is a foul, much of the problem with diving stems from the strange fact that officials don't five fouls if the player doesn't go down.

by Derbymanc Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:56 am

As far as i'm concerned it shouldn't be a foul anyway, he's got ample time to jump over the keeper and tap the ball in BUT it was overhit so he flopped down.

There is a big argument on the referees not giving anything (especially in the box) if people don't go down but the amount of diving in the game that what else can they do?

Would personally like to see more of the top managers start condemning their own teams and leading by example but we know that isn't gonna happen when it could cost you a point or 2.

The other side is we all embrace diving and start praising the players for how good they've got at it.

It's gotten into every aspect of the game and the funniest/saddest thing i've seen is 5/6 year old kids rolling around on the floor when the kids started football. I used to be the only 1 there to tell my lad to get up. (Girl was always too good to get kicked Smile

by Fernando Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:06 am

According to the Preston keeper, Shrek apologized for diving after the game.

Well this is awkward Whistle

by Stella Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:07 am

Derbymanc wrote:As far as i'm concerned it shouldn't be a foul anyway, he's got ample time to jump over the keeper and tap the ball in BUT it was overhit so he flopped down.

There is a big argument on the referees not giving anything (especially in the box) if people don't go down but the amount of diving in the game that what else can they do?

Would personally like to see more of the top managers start condemning their own teams and leading by example but we know that isn't gonna happen when it could cost you a point or 2.

The other side is we all embrace diving and start praising the players for how good they've got at it.

It's gotten into every aspect of the game and the funniest/saddest thing i've seen is 5/6 year old kids rolling around on the floor when the kids started football. I used to be the only 1 there to tell my lad to get up. (Girl was always too good to get kicked

Ample time? It's not Fifa 15. He did dive, but it's a decision made in a split second. He had no choice in hurdling the keeper (who is to blame for this fuss) then in that split second went down.

by **hampo17** Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:16 am

Unfortunately Derby as far as FIFA are concerned once a player trips or attempts to trip an opponent its a foul, this law will lead to more "flopping" but will never be changed.

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