50 Greatest Rugby players of the modern game

This from an article by Simon Thomas.

50. Scott Quinnell (WAL)

After a short spell in league, the man from the famous rugby family returned to Union when the game went open. One of the most effective ball-carrying No 8s in the world, he was like a one-man pack for Wales at times.

49. Yannick Jauzion (FRA)

You just couldn’t bring him down! The elegant Toulouse centre had a unique ability to stand up in the tackle and deliver a killer off-load. A sharp rugby brain as well. Pure class.

48. Carl Hayman (NZ)

We just hadn’t seen a tight-head prop like him before. At 6ft 4ins and 18st 13lbs, the Otago powerhouse was a man mountain in the All Blacks pack ahead of a lucrative move to Europe.

47. Mils Muliaina (NZ)

A wonderful counter-attacking full-back. Such a silky balanced runner and hardly ever made a mistake. One of an elite group to have appeared in 100 Tests for New Zealand.

46. Gary Teichmann (SA)

An inspirational No 8, he captained South Africa to a record 17 Test winning streak before launching the Bok and Amber revolution at Newport.

45. Martyn Williams (WAL)

Mr Consistency. Man of the Match time and again for club and country. A footballing openside flanker, this Wales centurion went on three Lions tours.

44. Rob Howley (WAL)

Shone brightly despite spending much of Test career behind a beaten Welsh pack. Confirmed status as a world class scrum-half with the Lions and won Wasps the Heineken Cup.

43. Ma'a Nonu (NZ)

Known initially more for his braided hair and eyeliner, the man from Wellington has added passing and kicking to his raw line-breaking power to become one of the great centres.

42. Bakkies Botha (SA)

The second row enforcer in South Africa’s World Cup winning team of 2007, he retired from international rugby this year. You simply didn't mess with Bakkies!

41. Will Greenwood (ENG)

A tall, stylish centre who had a particular penchant for scoring tries against Wales. Two Lions tours, but his finest hour was lifting the World Cup with England in 2003.

40. Thierry Dusautoir (FRA)

Produced one of the most incredible individual performance of modern times when he made an eye-popping 38 tackles and scored a try in France’s 2007 World Cup win over New Zealand. World player of year in 2011.

39. Tana Umaga (NZ)

A great reader of the game, the Hurricanes centre was the focal point of the New Zealand back-line for years and a hugely successful skipper, winning 19 out of 21 games at the helm, including a Lions clean-sweep.

38. Jean de Villiers (SA)

Can fulfil the role of the hard-running centre as well as do all the pretty stuff. Recognised as the king of interception, he has scored 25 Test tries in all, and has gone on to become a fine leader of South Africa. Suffered a horror injury against Wales this sutumn that could rule him out of next year's World Cup.

37. Conrad Smith (NZ)

Nicknamed The Snake because of his ability to slither through the smallest of gaps and strike with a sudden burst of speed. Brings fluidity to the All Blacks midfield with his intelligent passing and vision.

36. Augustin Pichot (ARG)

A pivotal figure in the emergence of Argentina as a major force in the game, the much travelled scrum-half captained the Pumas to their breakthrough third place finish in the 2007 World Cup. Such a livewire.

35. Adam Jones (WAL)

His record speaks for itself. The scrum cornerstone of three Grand Slam winning teams and the Test tight-head on two Lions tours. A true legend of Welsh rugby even if he doesn't make the World Cup squad.

34. Schalk Burger (SA)

One of the most physical flankers in the game, he was dubbed a “threshing machine” by former Springboks coach Nick Mallett.

33. Joe Rokocoko (NZ)

The former All Blacks winger boasts a remarkable strike rate, having scored 47 tries in 68 Tests. When you’ve got speed and strength, you’ve always got a chance and the Fijian-born flier had both in bucketloads.

32. Stephen Larkham (AUS)

A converted full-back, the elegant Larkham proved a worthy successor to Michael Lynagh as the Wallaby No 10. Pulled the strings to great effect during Australia’s 1999 World Cup winning campaign.

31. Fourie du Preez (SA)

Any aspiring scrum-half should watch this man in action. A master tactician, with a great kicking game, he was the lynchpin of the South African team that won the World Cup and defeated the Lions.

30. Juan-Martin Fernandez-Lobbe (ARG)

Look for the ball and the Pumas back rower is certain to be somewhere in the vicinity. He’s either scrabbling for it on the deck, leaping to pluck it out of the air, fielding it deep in his own half or carrying it on the charge.

29. Justin Marshall (NZ)

Some players talk the talk, some walk the walk. Justin Marshall could do both. Backed up his chirping by running the show for the All Blacks in an 81-cap Test career ahead of a high-profile spell with the Ospreys.

28. Matt Giteau (AUS)

Blessed with huge natural ability, he was able to turn his hand to scrum-half, fly-half and centre and prove a devastating in each position. Having won 92 caps with Australia, he has been on the Toulon trophy trail of late.

27. Will Genia (AUS)

One of those special players who can win a game single-handedly, either with his own sniping breaks or by putting others into space. A pocket dynamo, on his day the Wallaby scrum-half is pound for pound one of the strongest players in world rugby.

26. Scott Gibbs (WAL)

Responsible for one of the great moments in Welsh rugby history, with that Wembley try against England in 1999, and a similarly seminal Lions image with his dumping of Os du Randt two years earlier. A wrecking ball centre.

25. Richard Hill (ENG)

The ultimate players’ player. Did all the unseen, grafting work and just got on with his job in unassuming fashion, putting his body on the line. Able to excel right across the back row, he was a pivotal figure on two Lions trips and an England World Cup winner.

24. Gethin Jenkins (WAL)

Has revolutionised the role of the loose-head prop. Like an extra back row player with his ability over the ball and his defensive work-rate. As with fellow front rower, Adam Jones, the medal haul says it all.

23. Doug Howlett (NZ)

A star sprinter as a schoolboy, he once clocked a personal best of 10.94 seconds for 100 metres. Used his speed to great effect in his rugby career, scoring a record 49 tries for the All Blacks. Also known as a winger with a high work rate and strong defensive ability, Howlett went on to become a firm favourite with Munster, lifting the Heineken Cup.

22. Christian Cullen (NZ)

Just about the most exciting player in the world game for a few years in the late 1990s. Nicknamed the Paekakariki Express, he had a remarkable strike rate, scoring 46 tries in just 58 Tests for New Zealand, with his elusive running and pace from full-back simply ripping sides apart.

21. Lawrence Dallaglio (ENG)

Went from being a schoolboy chorister to one of the most formidable physical presences in the game of rugby. Had it all in his prime - pace, power, aggression, pride and a steely, winning mind-set.

20. George Smith (AUS)

The scourge of the Lions at the age of 20 and more than 100 caps to his name for the Wallabies before he was 30. An absolute pest and nuisance at the breakdown, he made a living out of slowing down or stealing opposition ball, while he could also be highly effective as an attacking flanking force.

19. John Smit (SA)

One of the great captains of the professional era. Led South Africa a record 83 times in 111 Tests, guiding them to victory at the 2007 World Cup, a series triumph over the Lions in 2009 and two Tri-Nations titles. A teak hard performer in his own right, mainly at hooker, but also at prop. A warrior.

18. Jason Robinson (ENG)

Known as Billy Whizz, this former rugby league star proved a hugely successful convert to Union. A lethal runner from full-back or wing, he was a nightmare to mark in one-on-one situations. Had a knack of scoring memorable tries on the biggest stages of all, for England and the Lions.

17. Zinzan Brooke (NZ)

A dynamic ball carrier, this Kiwi No 8 also had better kicking and handling skills than some fly-halves. Heaped the ultimate indignity on England in the 1995 World Cup semi-final, landing an audacious drop goal from 40 metres after they had already been demolished by four-try Jonah Lomu.

16. Percy Montgomery (SA)

His Test days appeared to be over when he joined Newport in 2002, but the move actually re-ignited his international career and he went on to be the top points scorer at the 2007 World Cup, excelling at full-back as South Africa took the trophy. Ended up with a century of caps. Blond style!

15. Paul O'Connell (IRE)

Munster fans will tell you that Superman wears Paul O’Connell pyjamas! The Irish lock certainly has special rugby powers having been one of the world’s leading tight forwards for more than a decade. A three-times Lions who captained the tour of South Africa in 2009.

14. George Gregan (AUS)

A talkative figure on the field, was responsible for one of the great on-field jibes, taunting the All Blacks with the words “Four more years” during the dying moments of Australia’s 2003 World Cup semi-final victory. Born in Zambia, this complete scrum-half won a whopping 139 caps.

13. Victor Matfield (SA)

Dubbed the best centre in South Africa for his love of running with the ball in midfield, this ultra athletic second row has come out of retirement and looks as good as ever.

12. Bryan Habana (SA)

Anyone who races cheetahs in his spare time is likely to be reasonably rapid and the South African speedster has scorched his way to 53 Test tries, including a record-equalling eight to help the ‘Boks win the 2007 World Cup.

11. Martin Johnson (ENG)

A player who led by example and the kind of man you would always want alongside you in the trenches when the chips are down. Would never ask someone to do something he wouldn’t himself. Holds the unique distinction of having captained the Lions on two tours, including the triumphant 1997 trip to South Africa, while he will ever be remembered as the man who was presented with the 2003 World Cup, which England won in Sydney.

As well as being an inspirational leader, the Leicester lock was also a formidable player in his own right. Never a man to mess with, he was a rock like presence in the tight, whose rugby motto was if in doubt, go forward.

10. Jonny Wilkinson (ENG)

In some ways, you could argue Wilkinson has been the epitome of the professional era. He has set new standards in terms of dedication and an almost obsessive pursuit of perfection. He’s also been one of the great match winners of the era and one of the game’s greatest ever accumulators of points. In fact, only Dan Carter has scored more in Test rugby, with Wilkinson having garnered 1,246 during his 97 caps for England and the Lions. His finest hour, of course, came in 2003, when he slotted the drop goal that won the World Cup. The fact he landed it with his weaker right foot speaks volumes for his hours and hours of diligent practice. Bowed out this year having earned two more trophies with Toulon.

9. John Eales (AUS)

Nicknamed “Nobody” because “Nobody’s perfect” and his record is certainly pretty close to perfection. One of a select band of players to have won two World Cups, skippering Australia to glory in Cardiff in 1999. Captained the Wallabies 55 times during his 86-cap Test career, establishing himself as one of the most respected figures in the game. He was also very much a one of a kind as a player. It’s hard to believe now, but he scored 173 points in international rugby. An agile, athletic second row lineout ace, he was also a top-class place-kicker, who landed 65 Test shots at goal. A real ambassador for the game and a great player.

8. Shane Williams (WAL)

Everyone remembers his side-stepping magic and wing wizardry, but it’s easy to forget just how hard Shane Williams worked in order to be able to hold his own physically on the international stage. Having burst onto the scene in exciting fashion, he spent two years in the Test wilderness amid concerns over his size. But having grabbed his chance at the 2003 World Cup, he worked diligently to complement his God-given ability by working on his physique, emerging as the greatest Welsh player of his generation. Named world player of the year in 2008, he ended up with 60 Test tries, leaving him third on the all-time list behind behind Daisuke Ohata and David Campese.

He was The Great Entertainer.

7. Tim Horan (AUS)

When he made his Test debut for Australia against New Zealand in 1989, he impressed his opposite number, Joe Stanley, so much that Stanley gave him his jersey. The Kiwi knew talent when he saw it.

After emerging as one of the young stars of the 1991 World Cup, Horan returned from a horrendous knee injury to be player of the tournament eight years later as he lifted the Webb Ellis trophy for a second time.

Possessed pace, balance, great ball skills and courage, with his attacking prowess, formidable defence and play-making ability marking him out as one of the finest centres the game of rugby has ever seen. Scored 40 Test tries at a rate of one every other game.

6. Sergio Parisse (ITA)

There’s no such thing as a one-man team in rugby, but it’s got pretty close to that with Italy at times over the past decade. That one man, of course, is their talismanic skipper Sergio Parisse. The Argentinian-born No 8 has been a key figure for the Azzurri since making an eye-catching debut as an 18-year-old against New Zealand in 2002..

Big and strong, he has the size to make holes in any defence, but he also has hands to die for and the subtlety to execute passes out of the back of his hand as though he were a fly-half. Add to that an astute brain for the game and an absolute refusal to bend the knee and you have pretty much the complete rugby player.

5. Joost van der Westhuizen (SA)

One of the game’s great competitors on the field, the former Springboks scrum-half has carried that attitude into his off-field battles since hanging up his boots.

You only have to watch the legendary Living With Lions video from the South African tour of 1997 to understand just how highly he was rated by the opposition and what a threat he was seen as.

Aggressive and fearless, he was one of the finest running scrum-halves the game has ever seen, scoring 38 tries in 89 Tests, a remarkable tally for a No 9. Despite standing 6ft 1ins tall, he was able to find and penetrate the tiniest gaps in opposing defences.

An inspirational force as a player, he has inspired people once again in recent years with his fight against motor neurone disease.

4. Jonah Lomu (NZ)

Has one man ever done more to popularise the game of rugby than Jonah? When he burst onto the scene at the 1995 World Cup, it was like a meteor landing from outer space. We had never seen anything like him before and his incredible feats grabbed the attention of folk who had never previously been interested in the sport. The physical impact Lomu had on the 1995 World Cup was beyond the effect of any other player in the history of the game.

He scored seven tries in 1995, including four in an unforgettable one-man demolition job of England in the semi.

Lomu went one better in 1999 to finish with a record 15 tournament tries, enjoyed a stint with the Cardiff Blues before showing his dignity with his brave fight against a debilitating kidney problem. One of a kind.

3. Brian O'Driscoll (IRE)

We may never see the likes of BOD again.

One of the most feared players in the game, O’Driscoll has also been one of the most consistent since bursting onto the international stage over a decade ago.

His 141 Test caps, including eight for the Lions, make him the most experienced international ever.

The all-time Irish record try scorer with 46, O’Driscoll also led his country more times than any other player and his brilliant defensive qualities and dazzling attacking skills made him a threat all over the field.

Has provided some magical memories with his hat-trick against France in Paris in 2000 and his wonderful solo try for the Lions against Australia in Brisbane the following year which evokes memories of the ‘Waltzing O’Driscoll’ song that epitomised the 2001 tour.

Also evoked controversy, most notably, Warren Gatland’s decision to leave him out of the final Lions Test in Sydney last summer. But BOD deserves to be remembered for what he was. One on the best.

2. Dan Carter (NZ)

Dan the man. He challenged for number one spot in our top 50 list, but was just edged into second place.

Runners-up position isn’t bad, though, for a player who has undoubtedly established himself as the greatest fly-half of the professional era.

Carter’s record speaks for itself. One hundred caps for New Zealand, a world Test record of 1,440 points.

Throw in a further 1547 points for the Crusaders and his impact on the game cannot be emphasised enough.

A prolific goal-kicker, a wonderful silky runner from 10 at his best, a masterful controller of matches at the very highest level.

Carter possesses the lot and has been unstoppable, a genuine match-winner.

The mercurial fly-half maestro made his international debut against Wales in Hamilton at the age of 21, although that night he played inside centre.

He quickly gave a sign of what was to come by scoring 20 points and to this day still regards that as his finest moment in rugby.

It was also against Wales in 2010, when he kicked a penalty from halfway at the Millennium Stadium, that Carter overtook Jonny WIlkinson as the world’s top point scorer.

Wilkinson momentarily took the record back in an England game against France, but Carter reclaimed it when playing against South Africa.

He averages almost 15 points a Test, the highest of any player in history who has scored more than 500 points.

One of his greatest performances came against Sir Clive Woodward’s Lions in 2005, when he completely outshone Jonny Wilkinson in their fly-half battle to lead New Zealand to an emphatic 48-18 triumph.

Carter scored two tries, five penalties, and four conversions and ended the match with33 points ... easily eclipsing the previous record of 18.

He is the greatest back of the professional era.

1. Richie McCaw (NZ)

You only have to look at the 49 names below Richie McCaw on this list to recognise what a legend the All Blacks captain has proved over the last decade or more.

The years are creeping up on the New Zealand openside but he remains one of the best No. 7s the world has ever seen.

If not the best. His work at the breakdown is so important to the way this All Blacks side plays.

When he forces turnovers, his teammates have the ability to turn them into points in the blink of an eye. Brave, athletic, quite outstanding exponent at the breakdown.

He’s big enough to take the boshes and the bashes around the breakdown, lithe and quick and skillful enough to link with any of the thousand sets of breathtaking backs the men in black might care to put out.

Lifting the 2011 World Cup in his backyard was a fitting tribute to one of the greatest All Blacks in history. It would have also been a fitting finale because the great man has nothing left to prove.

But he soldiers on and will win his 125th cap against England today having won 110 Test matches as an All Black.

In early 2013, McCaw took the option to sit out the early part of the Super XV to allow his 32-year-old body a break after a gruelling 2012. He came back for the play-offs and the start of the international season rejuvenated.

Injuries saw him play intermittently during the Rugby Championship, but his role in this All Blacks team was underlined by the haste with which Steve Hansen hurried him back to face the Springboks in that wonderful deciding Test in Johannesburg, where McCaw was outstanding.

As a captain, his cool head pervades throughout his team, and there is no one better at holding a conversation with the referee than McCaw. Kieran Read may be ready to take on the captaincy, but McCaw could have set an impossibly high bar.

The world’s best? We reckon so.

...and get ready for WWIII when everyone sees a Welsh player in the top 10.

Welsh pundit on welsh website picks welsh player in top 10.
Reposted by welsh poster - hardly anything to get your knickers in a twist about.

Looks like the Blues could do with IckleShane right now.

Top 3 look pretty good though.

Seriously one of the worst lists I've seen. From an SA point of view, no Juan Smith, no Mark Andrews, no Os du Randt, no Andre Venter, Rassie Erasmus. Much better players than many on this list but much much better.

Not overly sure about Howley on that list and I would have put Jason Leonard in there as well.

Id have thought that the best player to pull on a pair of boots might have made the list. only one openside?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Not overly sure about Howley on that list and I would have put Jason Leonard in there as well.

Howley was a superb player in his day. Certainly deserves to be there as the best scrum half in the NH for a good few years

Adam Jones? That's hilarious, i know how popular he is but the guy should never make one of these lists, without the scrum contest he is an average player at best.

and no Serge Blanco. Stupid list.

Would you call Blanco a player of the modern game?.... Im not suggesting he wasnt a great player though.

Blanco is from the amateur era hence his omission...

These lists are always subjective, it is what it is.

No Michael Jones- who did make it to the pro era, Sean Fitzpatrick who captained the first series versus the Boks in the pro era or John Kirwan where Tim Horan gets here? Not worth the post it's written on. Random mutterings...who gives these guys the paper space when they can't even make the effort to research.

Hardly the modern game...Savea deserves to be in that list. Cullen is higher than half the names above him- Montgomery above him? please..

Didn't realise some Welsh players were so good. Were they playing when Wales were in the top 3?

I would have found room for Keith Wood, Simon Shaw & Matt Dawson

What the frak is Genia doing on that list?

And I'm stunned by wilkinson being below Parisse!!

And no Brad Thorne????? Only the most accomplished player of the modern game

Gwlad wrote:and no Serge Blanco. Stupid list.

I was think about why Blanco was not on the list,

majesticimperialman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:and no Serge Blanco. Stupid list.

I was think about why Blanco was not on the list,

Maj, are you not from an English speaking country?

Scot Quinell?

I would of put Kieren Reed in there some where.

Not saying that Scott was a bad player. But Reed is much better in my opinion.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:and no Serge Blanco. Stupid list.

I was think about why Blanco was not on the list,

Maj, are you not from an English speaking country?

yes i am.

Can understand some ommisions...but Fitzy? Honestly? Not in the top 50- behind great names like Adam Jones, Rob Howley and Pichot?

Honours:
Auckland
National Provincial Championship 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996
Ranfurly Shield 1985-93, 95-96
Blues
Super Rugby 1996, 1997
New Zealand
World Cup 1987
Bledisloe Cup 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997
Tri Nations 1996, 1997
British and Irish Lions Series Captain Victory 1993
Series captain versus Boks in 96
International record for most consecutive test matches (63 successive Tests between 1986 & 1996.)
International team record for most consecutive tests without defeat (23 test matches between 1987 to 1990)


He's not just top 50, he's top 5!

I agree with you Taylor.

It s just a journalists opinion. In all honesty, considering the subjectivness of the task at hand he's done well. There are a few family favourites thrown in for good measure maybe, none were poor players though.

Based on that list, Gethin Jenkins is the best prop since rugby went professional.

That pretty much says it all

Its just a bit of innocent fun, and it does show that the Welsh know how to get a bit of light hearted humour out of rugby.

YAWN
Desperate.

Whilst I agree with the top 2 in terms of the modern game, the remainder of the ordering seems almost random.

Taylorman wrote:Can understand some ommisions...but Fitzy? Honestly? Not in the top 50- behind great names like Adam Jones, Rob Howley and Pichot?

Honours:
Auckland
National Provincial Championship 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996
Ranfurly Shield 1985-93, 95-96
Blues
Super Rugby 1996, 1997
New Zealand
World Cup 1987
Bledisloe Cup 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997
Tri Nations 1996, 1997
British and Irish Lions Series Captain Victory 1993
Series captain versus Boks in 96
International record for most consecutive test matches (63 successive Tests between 1986 & 1996.)
International team record for most consecutive tests without defeat (23 test matches between 1987 to 1990)


He's not just top 50, he's top 5!

You can only count everything he did from September 95 onwards, when he was right at the end of an illustrious career. A great player and best hooker I have seen, but not really a modern player.

BamBam wrote:Based on that list, Gethin Jenkins is the best prop since rugby went professional.

That pretty much says it all

The title says it all


It says the Greatest not the best. Great is a far wider ranging subject than best.

Serious question.

Which newspaper is the 'greatest'.

NZ Herald or Walesonline?

maestegmafia wrote:

BamBam wrote:Based on that list, Gethin Jenkins is the best prop since rugby went professional.

That pretty much says it all

The title says it all


It says the Greatest not the best. Great is a far wider ranging subject than best.

OK, he's apparently the greatest prop of the modern era, I guess best is understating his brilliance

I wonder if there is any sport more in love with listing best players than rugby. Cricket might sometimes give it a run, but rugby seems to have a far more developed cottage industry. All-time greats, best World Cup team, Lions selections, North vs South, season's best etc etc.

Fabian Pelous, Thierry Dusautoir, Thomas Domingo, Aurelian Rougerie, Keith Wood and Napolioni Nalaga I would consider to be great players. Well I enjoy(ed) watching them, and that's all that matters to me


And I haven't even got to the English players.

Rugby Fan wrote:I wonder if there is any sport more in love with listing best players than rugby. Cricket might sometimes give it a run, but rugby seems to have a far more developed cottage industry. All-time greats, best World Cup team, Lions selections, North vs South, season's best etc etc.

true, and you'd think theyd be good a getting them right with all that practice...

A list that has Shane Williams above Martin Johnson in surely a joke. Good player to watch certainly but which player would you put on your team sheet first?

The choice of Adam & Gethin on this list is questionable to say the least.

Exiledinborders wrote:A list that has Shane Williams above Martin Johnson in surely a joke. Good player to watch certainly but which player would you put on your team sheet first?

But it's not a list of players you'd put on your team sheet sheet first, or who was the most physically intimidating or most inspiring leader.

Assuming that backs play a part in rugby, I wouldn't pick Johnson on the wing any more than I'd pick Williams in the pack.

There are only 3 forwards ahead of Johnson but 5 half-backs/threequarters ahead of Williams. If you've a quarrel with Johnson's position on the list, you should look at the credentials of Eales, Parisse and McCaw.

Another couple of players that should be there are Sexton; the best 10 in the NH for the last 4-5 years and practically won Leinster their 2nd Heiny on his own.

And O'Gara who is the HC record points scorer. Mr. Consistency for Munster and Ireland.

Hound of Harrow wrote:Fabian Pelous, Thierry Dusautoir, Thomas Domingo, Aurelian Rougerie, Keith Wood and Napolioni Nalaga I would consider to be great players. Well I enjoy(ed) watching them, and that's all that matters to me


And I haven't even got to the English players.

Dusautoir is on the list - number 40.

Dunno how I missed him, opt, but cheers.

BamBam wrote:Based on that list, Gethin Jenkins is the best prop since rugby went professional.

That pretty much says it all

While i tend to agree, the guy is still playing excellent rugby and i believe he was doing so 9 years ago when Wales broke their duck. Not a bad innings.

Exiledinborders wrote:A list that has Shane Williams above Martin Johnson in surely a joke. Good player to watch certainly but which player would you put on your team sheet first?

Tough one…. but somewhat ridiculous question as these two are perhaps the least comparable pair of players you could pick.

Even as a Wales fan i can see the awesome impact Jonno has had on teams and as an abrasive leader he has few matches- though not as a manager- but whatever your feelings about Wales and the list, Shane was a points machine and i can think of few wingers who had the same impact on their sides in the last 10 years.

whocares wrote:Blanco is from the amateur era hence his omission...

i see, well it just goes to show that even if rugby has turned pro there are still players who used to smoke at half time who are matchless in the modern era

Rugby Fan wrote:I wonder if there is any sport more in love with listing best players than rugby. Cricket might sometimes give it a run, but rugby seems to have a far more developed cottage industry. All-time greats, best World Cup team, Lions selections, North vs South, season's best etc etc.

This sort of cogitation is entirely subjective and therefore baseless.

You really need to start a thread to see which is the best list.

Gwlad wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:A list that has Shane Williams above Martin Johnson in surely a joke. Good player to watch certainly but which player would you put on your team sheet first?

Tough one…. but somewhat ridiculous question as these two are perhaps the least comparable pair of players you could pick.

Even as a Wales fan i can see the awesome impact Jonno has had on teams and as an abrasive leader he has few matches- though not as a manager- but whatever your feelings about Wales and the list, Shane was a points machine and i can think of few wingers who had the same impact on their sides in the last 10 years.

perhaps Savea vwith 30 tries from 33 tests compared to Williams 60 from 91 tests...ooh hang on...saveas not in the top 50...

Taylorman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:A list that has Shane Williams above Martin Johnson in surely a joke. Good player to watch certainly but which player would you put on your team sheet first?

Tough one…. but somewhat ridiculous question as these two are perhaps the least comparable pair of players you could pick.

Even as a Wales fan i can see the awesome impact Jonno has had on teams and as an abrasive leader he has few matches- though not as a manager- but whatever your feelings about Wales and the list, Shane was a points machine and i can think of few wingers who had the same impact on their sides in the last 10 years.

perhaps Savea vwith 30 tries from 33 tests compared to Williams 60 from 91 tests...ooh hang on...saveas not in the top 50...

£5 says Savea jacks in the all blacks after the next World Cup for a huge cash deal with Toulon and doesn't score as many tries as a man who gave everything in his game for his club and country. Also Savea is almost twice the size of williams...!

Why does anyone take these articles seriously?

WalesOnline is a joke and any clued-up Welsh fan will be the first to say so.

In saying that however, while many of the above players selections are screaming of bias, Shane Williams fully deserves to be on anyone's list and in a high position too.

An interesting article on ESPN (Don't think I can post links but it was titled, 'The little winger who left a big impression') pointed out that while many of his tries did come against the likes of Italy and Scotland, he still held the record for tries scored by a European against Australia and South Africa (obviously southern hemisphere players benefit from more games played against these sides).

He also held the record for most tries scored away from home, so no home advantage, and accounted for almost 25% of his teams tries over 91 matches. What's perhaps most impressive however, is that he achieved all of this and more in a team that struggled to stay in the top 10, with a win rate of below 50%, while wingers with comparable stats played for far more dominant teams.

In my opinion, which of course will be slightly bias, he'd be the highest rated winger of the professional era, in a list including the likes of Howlett, lomu and Robinson. Savea wouldn't yet make the list for me as we're yet to see what he's like in anything but a dominant New Zealand team. That being said he looks like he could go on to be an all time great in the future.

If we were to move away from stats and judge players based solely on talent, entertainment or the ability to make you fall in love with rugby, then surely Shane would walk the list with the likes of Robinson and Caucau. Unfortunately people only remember what they want to and it seems criminal to some that little Shane the underdog should be able to mix with names that are more decorated in silverware thanks to their respective teams.

Would have Pichot way up that list, but it's hard to argue, at this point in time, with the names on the list, just the order

That has to be a joke no Merthens the BEST 10 of his era including Larkham,Montgomery
and Wilkinson.Or Ali Williams pre Achilles injury Fitzy,Michael Jones,Dave Loveridge,Jeff
Wilson,Kieran Reid,Brad Thorn.Thats just SOME from NZ let alone the rest of the world.