50 Greatest Rugby players of the modern game

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This from an article by Simon Thomas.

50. Scott Quinnell (WAL)

After a short spell in league, the man from the famous rugby family returned to Union when the game went open. One of the most effective ball-carrying No 8s in the world, he was like a one-man pack for Wales at times.

49. Yannick Jauzion (FRA)

You just couldn’t bring him down! The elegant Toulouse centre had a unique ability to stand up in the tackle and deliver a killer off-load. A sharp rugby brain as well. Pure class.

48. Carl Hayman (NZ)

We just hadn’t seen a tight-head prop like him before. At 6ft 4ins and 18st 13lbs, the Otago powerhouse was a man mountain in the All Blacks pack ahead of a lucrative move to Europe.

47. Mils Muliaina (NZ)

A wonderful counter-attacking full-back. Such a silky balanced runner and hardly ever made a mistake. One of an elite group to have appeared in 100 Tests for New Zealand.

46. Gary Teichmann (SA)

An inspirational No 8, he captained South Africa to a record 17 Test winning streak before launching the Bok and Amber revolution at Newport.

45. Martyn Williams (WAL)

Mr Consistency. Man of the Match time and again for club and country. A footballing openside flanker, this Wales centurion went on three Lions tours.

44. Rob Howley (WAL)

Shone brightly despite spending much of Test career behind a beaten Welsh pack. Confirmed status as a world class scrum-half with the Lions and won Wasps the Heineken Cup.

43. Ma'a Nonu (NZ)

Known initially more for his braided hair and eyeliner, the man from Wellington has added passing and kicking to his raw line-breaking power to become one of the great centres.

42. Bakkies Botha (SA)

The second row enforcer in South Africa’s World Cup winning team of 2007, he retired from international rugby this year. You simply didn't mess with Bakkies!

41. Will Greenwood (ENG)

A tall, stylish centre who had a particular penchant for scoring tries against Wales. Two Lions tours, but his finest hour was lifting the World Cup with England in 2003.

40. Thierry Dusautoir (FRA)

Produced one of the most incredible individual performance of modern times when he made an eye-popping 38 tackles and scored a try in France’s 2007 World Cup win over New Zealand. World player of year in 2011.

39. Tana Umaga (NZ)

A great reader of the game, the Hurricanes centre was the focal point of the New Zealand back-line for years and a hugely successful skipper, winning 19 out of 21 games at the helm, including a Lions clean-sweep.

38. Jean de Villiers (SA)

Can fulfil the role of the hard-running centre as well as do all the pretty stuff. Recognised as the king of interception, he has scored 25 Test tries in all, and has gone on to become a fine leader of South Africa. Suffered a horror injury against Wales this sutumn that could rule him out of next year's World Cup.

37. Conrad Smith (NZ)

Nicknamed The Snake because of his ability to slither through the smallest of gaps and strike with a sudden burst of speed. Brings fluidity to the All Blacks midfield with his intelligent passing and vision.

36. Augustin Pichot (ARG)

A pivotal figure in the emergence of Argentina as a major force in the game, the much travelled scrum-half captained the Pumas to their breakthrough third place finish in the 2007 World Cup. Such a livewire.

35. Adam Jones (WAL)

His record speaks for itself. The scrum cornerstone of three Grand Slam winning teams and the Test tight-head on two Lions tours. A true legend of Welsh rugby even if he doesn't make the World Cup squad.

34. Schalk Burger (SA)

One of the most physical flankers in the game, he was dubbed a “threshing machine” by former Springboks coach Nick Mallett.

33. Joe Rokocoko (NZ)

The former All Blacks winger boasts a remarkable strike rate, having scored 47 tries in 68 Tests. When you’ve got speed and strength, you’ve always got a chance and the Fijian-born flier had both in bucketloads.

32. Stephen Larkham (AUS)

A converted full-back, the elegant Larkham proved a worthy successor to Michael Lynagh as the Wallaby No 10. Pulled the strings to great effect during Australia’s 1999 World Cup winning campaign.

31. Fourie du Preez (SA)

Any aspiring scrum-half should watch this man in action. A master tactician, with a great kicking game, he was the lynchpin of the South African team that won the World Cup and defeated the Lions.

30. Juan-Martin Fernandez-Lobbe (ARG)

Look for the ball and the Pumas back rower is certain to be somewhere in the vicinity. He’s either scrabbling for it on the deck, leaping to pluck it out of the air, fielding it deep in his own half or carrying it on the charge.

29. Justin Marshall (NZ)

Some players talk the talk, some walk the walk. Justin Marshall could do both. Backed up his chirping by running the show for the All Blacks in an 81-cap Test career ahead of a high-profile spell with the Ospreys.

28. Matt Giteau (AUS)

Blessed with huge natural ability, he was able to turn his hand to scrum-half, fly-half and centre and prove a devastating in each position. Having won 92 caps with Australia, he has been on the Toulon trophy trail of late.

27. Will Genia (AUS)

One of those special players who can win a game single-handedly, either with his own sniping breaks or by putting others into space. A pocket dynamo, on his day the Wallaby scrum-half is pound for pound one of the strongest players in world rugby.

26. Scott Gibbs (WAL)

Responsible for one of the great moments in Welsh rugby history, with that Wembley try against England in 1999, and a similarly seminal Lions image with his dumping of Os du Randt two years earlier. A wrecking ball centre.

25. Richard Hill (ENG)

The ultimate players’ player. Did all the unseen, grafting work and just got on with his job in unassuming fashion, putting his body on the line. Able to excel right across the back row, he was a pivotal figure on two Lions trips and an England World Cup winner.

24. Gethin Jenkins (WAL)

Has revolutionised the role of the loose-head prop. Like an extra back row player with his ability over the ball and his defensive work-rate. As with fellow front rower, Adam Jones, the medal haul says it all.

23. Doug Howlett (NZ)

A star sprinter as a schoolboy, he once clocked a personal best of 10.94 seconds for 100 metres. Used his speed to great effect in his rugby career, scoring a record 49 tries for the All Blacks. Also known as a winger with a high work rate and strong defensive ability, Howlett went on to become a firm favourite with Munster, lifting the Heineken Cup.

22. Christian Cullen (NZ)

Just about the most exciting player in the world game for a few years in the late 1990s. Nicknamed the Paekakariki Express, he had a remarkable strike rate, scoring 46 tries in just 58 Tests for New Zealand, with his elusive running and pace from full-back simply ripping sides apart.

21. Lawrence Dallaglio (ENG)

Went from being a schoolboy chorister to one of the most formidable physical presences in the game of rugby. Had it all in his prime - pace, power, aggression, pride and a steely, winning mind-set.

20. George Smith (AUS)

The scourge of the Lions at the age of 20 and more than 100 caps to his name for the Wallabies before he was 30. An absolute pest and nuisance at the breakdown, he made a living out of slowing down or stealing opposition ball, while he could also be highly effective as an attacking flanking force.

19. John Smit (SA)

One of the great captains of the professional era. Led South Africa a record 83 times in 111 Tests, guiding them to victory at the 2007 World Cup, a series triumph over the Lions in 2009 and two Tri-Nations titles. A teak hard performer in his own right, mainly at hooker, but also at prop. A warrior.

18. Jason Robinson (ENG)

Known as Billy Whizz, this former rugby league star proved a hugely successful convert to Union. A lethal runner from full-back or wing, he was a nightmare to mark in one-on-one situations. Had a knack of scoring memorable tries on the biggest stages of all, for England and the Lions.

17. Zinzan Brooke (NZ)

A dynamic ball carrier, this Kiwi No 8 also had better kicking and handling skills than some fly-halves. Heaped the ultimate indignity on England in the 1995 World Cup semi-final, landing an audacious drop goal from 40 metres after they had already been demolished by four-try Jonah Lomu.

16. Percy Montgomery (SA)

His Test days appeared to be over when he joined Newport in 2002, but the move actually re-ignited his international career and he went on to be the top points scorer at the 2007 World Cup, excelling at full-back as South Africa took the trophy. Ended up with a century of caps. Blond style!

15. Paul O'Connell (IRE)

Munster fans will tell you that Superman wears Paul O’Connell pyjamas! The Irish lock certainly has special rugby powers having been one of the world’s leading tight forwards for more than a decade. A three-times Lions who captained the tour of South Africa in 2009.

14. George Gregan (AUS)

A talkative figure on the field, was responsible for one of the great on-field jibes, taunting the All Blacks with the words “Four more years” during the dying moments of Australia’s 2003 World Cup semi-final victory. Born in Zambia, this complete scrum-half won a whopping 139 caps.

13. Victor Matfield (SA)

Dubbed the best centre in South Africa for his love of running with the ball in midfield, this ultra athletic second row has come out of retirement and looks as good as ever.

12. Bryan Habana (SA)

Anyone who races cheetahs in his spare time is likely to be reasonably rapid and the South African speedster has scorched his way to 53 Test tries, including a record-equalling eight to help the ‘Boks win the 2007 World Cup.

11. Martin Johnson (ENG)

A player who led by example and the kind of man you would always want alongside you in the trenches when the chips are down. Would never ask someone to do something he wouldn’t himself. Holds the unique distinction of having captained the Lions on two tours, including the triumphant 1997 trip to South Africa, while he will ever be remembered as the man who was presented with the 2003 World Cup, which England won in Sydney.

As well as being an inspirational leader, the Leicester lock was also a formidable player in his own right. Never a man to mess with, he was a rock like presence in the tight, whose rugby motto was if in doubt, go forward.

10. Jonny Wilkinson (ENG)

In some ways, you could argue Wilkinson has been the epitome of the professional era. He has set new standards in terms of dedication and an almost obsessive pursuit of perfection. He’s also been one of the great match winners of the era and one of the game’s greatest ever accumulators of points. In fact, only Dan Carter has scored more in Test rugby, with Wilkinson having garnered 1,246 during his 97 caps for England and the Lions. His finest hour, of course, came in 2003, when he slotted the drop goal that won the World Cup. The fact he landed it with his weaker right foot speaks volumes for his hours and hours of diligent practice. Bowed out this year having earned two more trophies with Toulon.

9. John Eales (AUS)

Nicknamed “Nobody” because “Nobody’s perfect” and his record is certainly pretty close to perfection. One of a select band of players to have won two World Cups, skippering Australia to glory in Cardiff in 1999. Captained the Wallabies 55 times during his 86-cap Test career, establishing himself as one of the most respected figures in the game. He was also very much a one of a kind as a player. It’s hard to believe now, but he scored 173 points in international rugby. An agile, athletic second row lineout ace, he was also a top-class place-kicker, who landed 65 Test shots at goal. A real ambassador for the game and a great player.

8. Shane Williams (WAL)

Everyone remembers his side-stepping magic and wing wizardry, but it’s easy to forget just how hard Shane Williams worked in order to be able to hold his own physically on the international stage. Having burst onto the scene in exciting fashion, he spent two years in the Test wilderness amid concerns over his size. But having grabbed his chance at the 2003 World Cup, he worked diligently to complement his God-given ability by working on his physique, emerging as the greatest Welsh player of his generation. Named world player of the year in 2008, he ended up with 60 Test tries, leaving him third on the all-time list behind behind Daisuke Ohata and David Campese.

He was The Great Entertainer.

7. Tim Horan (AUS)

When he made his Test debut for Australia against New Zealand in 1989, he impressed his opposite number, Joe Stanley, so much that Stanley gave him his jersey. The Kiwi knew talent when he saw it.

After emerging as one of the young stars of the 1991 World Cup, Horan returned from a horrendous knee injury to be player of the tournament eight years later as he lifted the Webb Ellis trophy for a second time.

Possessed pace, balance, great ball skills and courage, with his attacking prowess, formidable defence and play-making ability marking him out as one of the finest centres the game of rugby has ever seen. Scored 40 Test tries at a rate of one every other game.

6. Sergio Parisse (ITA)

There’s no such thing as a one-man team in rugby, but it’s got pretty close to that with Italy at times over the past decade. That one man, of course, is their talismanic skipper Sergio Parisse. The Argentinian-born No 8 has been a key figure for the Azzurri since making an eye-catching debut as an 18-year-old against New Zealand in 2002..

Big and strong, he has the size to make holes in any defence, but he also has hands to die for and the subtlety to execute passes out of the back of his hand as though he were a fly-half. Add to that an astute brain for the game and an absolute refusal to bend the knee and you have pretty much the complete rugby player.

5. Joost van der Westhuizen (SA)

One of the game’s great competitors on the field, the former Springboks scrum-half has carried that attitude into his off-field battles since hanging up his boots.

You only have to watch the legendary Living With Lions video from the South African tour of 1997 to understand just how highly he was rated by the opposition and what a threat he was seen as.

Aggressive and fearless, he was one of the finest running scrum-halves the game has ever seen, scoring 38 tries in 89 Tests, a remarkable tally for a No 9. Despite standing 6ft 1ins tall, he was able to find and penetrate the tiniest gaps in opposing defences.

An inspirational force as a player, he has inspired people once again in recent years with his fight against motor neurone disease.

4. Jonah Lomu (NZ)

Has one man ever done more to popularise the game of rugby than Jonah? When he burst onto the scene at the 1995 World Cup, it was like a meteor landing from outer space. We had never seen anything like him before and his incredible feats grabbed the attention of folk who had never previously been interested in the sport. The physical impact Lomu had on the 1995 World Cup was beyond the effect of any other player in the history of the game.

He scored seven tries in 1995, including four in an unforgettable one-man demolition job of England in the semi.

Lomu went one better in 1999 to finish with a record 15 tournament tries, enjoyed a stint with the Cardiff Blues before showing his dignity with his brave fight against a debilitating kidney problem. One of a kind.

3. Brian O'Driscoll (IRE)

We may never see the likes of BOD again.

One of the most feared players in the game, O’Driscoll has also been one of the most consistent since bursting onto the international stage over a decade ago.

His 141 Test caps, including eight for the Lions, make him the most experienced international ever.

The all-time Irish record try scorer with 46, O’Driscoll also led his country more times than any other player and his brilliant defensive qualities and dazzling attacking skills made him a threat all over the field.

Has provided some magical memories with his hat-trick against France in Paris in 2000 and his wonderful solo try for the Lions against Australia in Brisbane the following year which evokes memories of the ‘Waltzing O’Driscoll’ song that epitomised the 2001 tour.

Also evoked controversy, most notably, Warren Gatland’s decision to leave him out of the final Lions Test in Sydney last summer. But BOD deserves to be remembered for what he was. One on the best.

2. Dan Carter (NZ)

Dan the man. He challenged for number one spot in our top 50 list, but was just edged into second place.

Runners-up position isn’t bad, though, for a player who has undoubtedly established himself as the greatest fly-half of the professional era.

Carter’s record speaks for itself. One hundred caps for New Zealand, a world Test record of 1,440 points.

Throw in a further 1547 points for the Crusaders and his impact on the game cannot be emphasised enough.

A prolific goal-kicker, a wonderful silky runner from 10 at his best, a masterful controller of matches at the very highest level.

Carter possesses the lot and has been unstoppable, a genuine match-winner.

The mercurial fly-half maestro made his international debut against Wales in Hamilton at the age of 21, although that night he played inside centre.

He quickly gave a sign of what was to come by scoring 20 points and to this day still regards that as his finest moment in rugby.

It was also against Wales in 2010, when he kicked a penalty from halfway at the Millennium Stadium, that Carter overtook Jonny WIlkinson as the world’s top point scorer.

Wilkinson momentarily took the record back in an England game against France, but Carter reclaimed it when playing against South Africa.

He averages almost 15 points a Test, the highest of any player in history who has scored more than 500 points.

One of his greatest performances came against Sir Clive Woodward’s Lions in 2005, when he completely outshone Jonny Wilkinson in their fly-half battle to lead New Zealand to an emphatic 48-18 triumph.

Carter scored two tries, five penalties, and four conversions and ended the match with33 points ... easily eclipsing the previous record of 18.

He is the greatest back of the professional era.

1. Richie McCaw (NZ)

You only have to look at the 49 names below Richie McCaw on this list to recognise what a legend the All Blacks captain has proved over the last decade or more.

The years are creeping up on the New Zealand openside but he remains one of the best No. 7s the world has ever seen.

If not the best. His work at the breakdown is so important to the way this All Blacks side plays.

When he forces turnovers, his teammates have the ability to turn them into points in the blink of an eye. Brave, athletic, quite outstanding exponent at the breakdown.

He’s big enough to take the boshes and the bashes around the breakdown, lithe and quick and skillful enough to link with any of the thousand sets of breathtaking backs the men in black might care to put out.

Lifting the 2011 World Cup in his backyard was a fitting tribute to one of the greatest All Blacks in history. It would have also been a fitting finale because the great man has nothing left to prove.

But he soldiers on and will win his 125th cap against England today having won 110 Test matches as an All Black.

In early 2013, McCaw took the option to sit out the early part of the Super XV to allow his 32-year-old body a break after a gruelling 2012. He came back for the play-offs and the start of the international season rejuvenated.

Injuries saw him play intermittently during the Rugby Championship, but his role in this All Blacks team was underlined by the haste with which Steve Hansen hurried him back to face the Springboks in that wonderful deciding Test in Johannesburg, where McCaw was outstanding.

As a captain, his cool head pervades throughout his team, and there is no one better at holding a conversation with the referee than McCaw. Kieran Read may be ready to take on the captaincy, but McCaw could have set an impossibly high bar.

The world’s best? We reckon so.

The Great Aukster wrote:Can't understand Umaga being included when all he is really known for is taking out his biggest threat and creating a Law change in the process?

You were joking, right?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Can't understand Umaga being included when all he is really known for is taking out his biggest threat and creating a Law change in the process?

You were joking, right?

rather have Jamie Noon, Graeme Morrison or Wynand Olivier any day!

There are a great many things Graeme Morrison could do that Tana Umaga couldn't, sadly none of them having a positive impact on a rugby field.

funnyExiledScot wrote:There are a great many things Graeme Morrison could do that Tana Umaga couldn't, sadly none of them having a positive impact on a rugby field.

rubik cube blindfolded?

fa0019 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:There are a great many things Graeme Morrison could do that Tana Umaga couldn't, sadly none of them having a positive impact on a rugby field.

rubik cube blindfolded?

No, he kept dropping it.

In 2007, Will Carling listed his 50 greatest rugby players of all time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/2320582/Will-Carling-My-50-top-rugby-players.html

50. Rory Underwood (Wing, England, 85 caps) Did well to score tries early in his career as well when England were not so strong. Pace, power, ability.

49. Uli Schmidt (Hooker, South Africa, 17 caps) First explosive front row runner I ever saw – his side step and ball skills were mind boggling for a hooker.

48. Fran Cotton (Prop, England, 31 caps) Sheer size and might of the guy was incredible. Iconic photograph sums him up. One of the classic Lions.

47. Joost van der Westhuizen (Scrum-half, South Africa, 89 caps) One of the most dangerous runners at scrum half there has ever been, certainly in my career.

46. Graham Price (Prop, Wales, 41 caps) To me any prop that can run the length of the field and score at Parc des Princes is very special.

45. Andy Irvine (Full-back, Scotland, 51 caps) Could play wing or full-back. Ability and confidence to take risks and carry off what he intended from anywhere on the field.

44. Lawrence Dallaglio (No 8, England, 77 caps) In his prime he had everything really - pace, power, aggression, pride.

43. Gregor Townsend (Fly-half, Scotland, 82 caps) Naturally gifted player, he was always predictably unpredictable and was a player that could win a game on his own.

42. Fergus Slattery (Flanker, Ireland, 61 caps) The long hair and the side-burns complimented his courage and his bravery. Another classic Lion.

41. Michael Lynagh (Fly-half, Australia, 72 caps) Great tactician, great kicker, very underrated runner, pivot of 1991 World Cup-winning side.

40. Denis Charvet (Centre, France, 23 caps) Movie star figure in the French backline.

39. Rob Howley (Scrum-half, Wales, 59 caps) Had it all as a scrum-half and was still brilliant behind a losing Welsh pack.

38. Phil Bennett (Fly-half, Wales, 46 caps) Almost in here for his three sidesteps for the Baabaas alone (1973 v All Blacks). Brilliant runner.

37. John Kirwan (Wing, New Zealand, 63 caps) First of the big powerful wingers with a sidestep, the ball skills and a footballing brain.

36. Gerald Davies (Wing, Wales, 46 caps) The most devastating sidestepper I've ever seen.

35. Tana Umaga (Wing/Centre, New Zealand, 74 caps) He was the focal point of the New Zealand backline and a great reader of the game.

34. Raphael Ibanez (Hooker, France, 84 caps) Durability and passion. His career was over but amazingly he is now back to captain France.

33. Jerry Guscott (Centre, England, 68 caps) Smooth runner, pace, anticipation, confidence, a supreme attacker.

32. Richard Hill (Flanker, England, 71 caps) I’m a huge fan of his. Great work rate, great lines, great at reading the game. Quiet, unassuming demeanour but was always vital.

31. Nick Farr-Jones (Scrum-half, Australia, 63 caps) Intelligent player, great tactician, great skills, great leader.

30. Keith Wood (Hooker, Ireland, 58 caps) Mad, explosive Irish talent.

29. Jason Leonard (Prop, England, 114 caps) More than 100 caps as a prop is unbelievable.

28. Barry John (Fly-half, Wales, 25 caps) The king, to me his swerve and body movement were simply sublime. A subtle move of his hips sufficed. A very deceptive runner.

27. Richie McCaw (Openside, New Zealand, 55 caps) Brave, athletic, quite outstanding exponent at the breakdown.

26. Morne du Plessis (No 8, South Africa, 22 caps) He was everything that's great about South African rugby - intelligent, athletic, brave.

25. John Eales (Second row, Australia, 86 caps) Line out genius, quiet leader, double World Cup winner.

24. Jonny Wilkinson (Fly-half, England, 57 caps) The ultimate kicking and defensive fly half.

23. Dan Carter (Fly-half, New Zealand, 41 caps) At his best – sublime. If he continues in same vein will make top ten.

22. Wayne Shelford (No 8, New Zealand, 22 caps) Huge influence in returning the pride to the haka and the All Blacks.

21. Tim Horan (Centre, Australia, 80 caps) Double World Cup winner. Pace, balance, great ball skills, courage.

20. JPR Williams (Full-back, Wales, 55 caps) When I was growing up he was the embodiment of competitiveness. Brave, attacking full back and a rock in defence.

19. Willie John McBride (No 8, Ireland, 63 caps) Pipe-smoking legend, the definitive Lion.

18. Sean Fitzpatrick (Hooker, New Zealand, 92 caps) Nasty, ultra-competitive winner.

17. Peter Winterbottom (Openside, England, 58 caps) Respected in New Zealand, adored in South Africa, worshipped by me.

16. Jean-Pierre Rives (Openside, France, 59 caps) Hardest and bravest man I have seen on a rugby pitch, and he had all the skills.

15. David Duckham (Wing, England, 36 caps) His talent and sidestepping ability shone through though he was starved of ball.

14. Colin Meads (Second row, New Zealand, 55 caps) 'Pinetree' - this hard man was the foundation which the success of the All Blacks was built around.

13. Mike Gibson (Centre, Ireland, 69 caps) Almost the complete centre. Balance, vision, ball skills, temperament.

12. George Gregan (Scrum-half, Australia, 132 caps) Most capped player of all time - that says it all.

11. Philippe Sella (Centre, France, 111 caps) Prince of French centres, at his best untouchable.

10. Brian O'Driscoll (Centre, Ireland, 71 caps) As a balanced centre he has everything - pace strength, great attacking skill and is as good in defence as attack. On the 2001 Lions tour, he showed his outstanding talent as the stand out back in the series. He has the ability to prise open defences that other players cannot even contemplate. With his poise, his change of speed and his closeness to the ground it is very hard to stop him. Ireland are half the side without him.

9. Zinzan Brooke (No 8, New Zealand, 58 caps) A No 8 who could drop a goal from the 10-metre line. For a forward his skills were outrageous. As comfortable playing sevens as 15s, he had better kicking and handling skills than some fly-halves playing international rugby. You align that with his strength and ability as a forward to read the game - he was unique.

8. Martin Johnson (Second row, England, 84 caps) Inspirational leader, formidable player, competitive in every situation. The example he set in tight situations led the way. He didn't ask you for effort or even have to demand it, his very presence made you want to live up to his high standards. He was indispensable to England in the World Cup win. He made it happen.

7. Hugo Porta (Fly-half, Argentina, 58 caps) Out of anyone that has made an impact on international rugby, few can match Porta. Argentina were playing at a lower level until the class of Porta lifted them. He was a great kicker of the dead ball and out of hand but he was also tactically astute - he knew when to attack and when to kick. He put Argentina on the world map single-handedly, an amazing achievement.

6. Danie Gerber (Centre, South Africa, 24 caps) I wouldn't have liked to have played against him. With his pace, power and aggression, he was like a little rocket. He was built like a tank and had the pace of an F1 car. Although he wasn't seen much on the international scene (because of the apartheid boycotts) he made a huge impact. With more time he would have had an incredible effect.

5. Serge Blanco (Full-back, France, 93 caps) He sums up all that is brilliant about French rugby. He had the audacity to take risks that no one else would. He was daring but he had the breathtaking ability to pull it off. He turned many matches from full-back. He was the epitome of the brilliant Frenchmen. A dream to watch, a nightmare to play against.

4. Jonah Lomu (Wing, New Zealand, 63 caps) Talking of nightmares, the physical impact that Lomu had on the 1995 World Cup was beyond the effect of any other player in the history of the game. He was so quick, so powerful and so strong that he changed rugby. He could singlehandedly take on four or five players - no one had done that before or has done it since.

3. David Campese (Wing, Australia, 101 caps) He was well ahead of his time. His anticipation and vision was way ahead of what everyone else was attempting, and 99 per cent of it came off. He took running lines no one else could fathom and made passes no one could see were on. He was an extraordinary talent - the best winger.

2. Michael Jones (Openside, New Zealand, 55 caps) Like Zinzan Brooke for ball skills. He also had great acceleration and pace and could have played for most international midfields. Yet he was a No 7 who read the game brilliantly and was devastating in defence. He was the first multi talented openside. Up until he played it was unheard of to be such a complete player in this position.

1. Gareth Edwards (Scrum-half, Wales, 53 caps) It's hard to compare generations, yet Edwards is the one guy I can say that would have been great whenever he played. He was a supreme athlete with supreme skills, the complete package. He played in the 1970s, but, if he played now, he would still be the best. He was outstanding at running, passing, kicking and reading the game. He sits astride the whole of rugby as the ultimate athlete on the pitch.

Interesting post Ebop

rodders wrote:Is Jonah Lomu judged on his non performance in the 1995 RWC final and/or ABs capitilation against France in 1999?

Whats Carter's record in RWCs? Tana Umaga's? Apart from beating the worst Lions team in the pro era did there guys produce when 'it counts'?

Or are we applying double standards to NH v SH players?

good points rodders. Thats part of why I don't want DC involved next year. Both world cups we've ended up struggling at 10 when DC fell to injury, and he'll hogg valuable 10 time right up until we need to replace him. Lomu actually played well in the 99 semi. His two tries- one carrying almost 5 frenchmen to the line is what put the ABs well ahead. The tries the French got- long range against the run of play with an incredible amount of fortune and skill- balls bouncing the right way etc, no one could do anything much about.

Taylorman wrote:

rodders wrote:Is Jonah Lomu judged on his non performance in the 1995 RWC final and/or ABs capitilation against France in 1999?

Whats Carter's record in RWCs? Tana Umaga's? Apart from beating the worst Lions team in the pro era did there guys produce when 'it counts'?

Or are we applying double standards to NH v SH players?

good points rodders. Thats part of why I don't want DC involved next year. Both world cups we've ended up struggling at 10 when DC fell to injury, and he'll hogg valuable 10 time right up until we need to replace him. Lomu actually played well in the 99 semi. His two tries- one carrying almost 5 frenchmen to the line is what put the ABs well ahead. The tries the French got- long range against the run of play with an incredible amount of fortune and skill- balls bouncing the right way etc, no one could do anything much about.

To help you out Rodders I've used an simple model to select non Kiwi players in the greatest players in this era. I've assumed that the AB's are rekatively consistent, that beating them implies a player is good and I've set a limit of at least 3 games and a 50% minimum to reduced random results and eliminate the chafe. Here's the list in order with their winning %'s.....

TM Bowman (Aust) 100
HW Brussow (SA) 100
PN Kearns (Aust) 100
V Ofahengaue (Aust) 100
NP Grey (Aust) 80
PG Muller (SA) 75
MJ Cockbain (Aust) 73
P Bernat-Salles (Fra) 67
AT Blades (Aust) 67
BJ Darwin (Aust) 67
R Dourthe (Fra) 67
JBG Harrison (Aust) 67
HW Honiball (SA) 67
PF Smith (SA) 67
W Swanepoel (SA) 67
AM Walker (Aust) 67
DJ Herbert (Aust) 64
RST Kefu (Aust) 62
DJ Crowley (Aust) 60
JC Erasmus (SA) 60
PF du Preez (SA) 58
JS Little (Aust) 57
JPR Pietersen (SA) 56
JA Eales (Aust) 55
ODA Finegan (Aust) 55
JP Botha (SA) 53
MC Burke (Aust) 53
JWC Roff (Aust) 53
KPP Bracken (Eng) 50
O Brouzet (Fra) 50
M Connors (Aust) 50
BW du Plessis (SA) 50
EJ Flatley (Aust) 50
X Garbajosa (Fra) 50
DT Giffin (Aust) 50
TJ Horan (Aust) 50
MO Johnson (Eng) 50
C Juillet (Fra) 50
C Lamaison (Fra) 50
DJ Lyons (Aust) 50
K Otto (SA) 50
JT Robinson (Eng/Lions) 50
PJ Spies (SA) 50
FPL Steyn (SA) 50

Only Carter and McCaw still playing from Carling's list

blackcanelion wrote:

V Ofahengaue (Aust) 100

ah Willie O, what a player, along with Michael Jones would be in my dream back row.

The Great Aukster wrote:Can't understand Umaga being included when all he is really known for is taking out his biggest threat and creating a Law change in the process?

Its probably because Umaga is the only Rugby player on the list who has been awarded the Pierre de Coubertrin medal for an oustanding act of Sportsmanship and fairplay.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Can't understand Umaga being included when all he is really known for is taking out his biggest threat and creating a Law change in the process?

Its probably because Umaga is the only Rugby player on the list who has been awarded the Pierre de Coubertrin medal for an oustanding act of Sportsmanship and fairplay.

Oh,
That and playing 74 tests with 36 tries at a 80% win rate, captaining 21 for an 85% win rate...

do they change laws for swinging handbags?

aucklandlaurie wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Can't understand Umaga being included when all he is really known for is taking out his biggest threat and creating a Law change in the process?

Its probably because Umaga is the only Rugby player on the list who has been awarded the Pierre de Coubertrin medal for an oustanding act of Sportsmanship and fairplay.

Sorry AL I didn't realise he had been awarded such an accolade by the descendants of a 19th century French aristocrat. Not really surprising I suppose considering their love of the Guillotine?

tut tut...some just can't let things go...amazing how it clouds logical thinking though...

ebop wrote:2. Michael Jones (Openside, New Zealand, 55 caps) Like Zinzan Brooke for ball skills. He also had great acceleration and pace and could have played for most international midfields. Yet he was a No 7 who read the game brilliantly and was devastating in defence. He was the first multi talented openside. Up until he played it was unheard of to be such a complete player in this position.

Now there was a guy who believed principles were more than just a badge someone else had pinned to his shirt.

This thread has surprised me. I don't think I have ever seen the kiwi posters on here get so riled up...

maestegmafia wrote:This thread has surprised me. I don't think I have ever seen the kiwi posters on here get so riled up...

Now I'm really confused. Where's that then ?

goneagain wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:This thread has surprised me. I don't think I have ever seen the kiwi posters on here get so riled up...

Now I'm really confused. Where's that then ?

All over the thread.

maestegmafia wrote:

goneagain wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:This thread has surprised me. I don't think I have ever seen the kiwi posters on here get so riled up...

Now I'm really confused. Where's that then ?

All over the thread.

didn't see it either myself...

The Great Aukster wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Can't understand Umaga being included when all he is really known for is taking out his biggest threat and creating a Law change in the process?

Its probably because Umaga is the only Rugby player on the list who has been awarded the Pierre de Coubertrin medal for an oustanding act of Sportsmanship and fairplay.

Sorry AL I didn't realise he had been awarded such an accolade by the descendants of a 19th century French aristocrat. Not really surprising I suppose considering their love of the Guillotine?

He wasnt awarded the accolade by the descendants of a French aristocrat, but by the International Olympic Committee, in fact it is the highest Olympic award. Umaga is the only rugby player in the history of the game to have been awarded this decoration.Sportsmanship and fairplay are very rare virtues and should be recognised.

Aucklandlaurie wrote:
"He wasnt awarded the accolade by the descendants of a French aristocrat, but by the International Olympic Committee, in fact it is the highest Olympic award. Umaga is the only rugby player in the history of the game to have been awarded this decoration.Sportsmanship and fairplay are very rare virtues and should be recognised."

You're right that Tana Umaga is the only rugby player to have been awarded the medal, which by the way wasn't instituted when Baron de Coubertin founded the modern Olympics in 1896, but almost 70 years later in 1964. Though having played and followed rugby for 60 years, I don't agree that sportsmanship and fair play are very rare, having seen numerous examples at various levels of the game during that time.
But Umaga certainly did extremely well to stop playing, without waiting for the referee, and help Colin Charvis, who had been knocked out in a tackle by Jerry Collins, during a Wales v New Zealand game. It showed an appreciation of the situation which many players wouldn't have had in the heat of a test match. Charvis was very grateful afterwards that Umaga had removed his gum shield and put him in the recovery position so quickly.

Rugby brings out the best and worst in people.

Tana's conduct that day was exceptional, no doubt and he should be applauded for it.

It is a shame because he is more notorious for an incident that I still find it hard to watch, because the intent is sadly so clear.

Taylorman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

goneagain wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:This thread has surprised me. I don't think I have ever seen the kiwi posters on here get so riled up...

Now I'm really confused. Where's that then ?

All over the thread.

didn't see it either myself...

I'm sure MM will provide some examples.

Risca Rev wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

goneagain wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:This thread has surprised me. I don't think I have ever seen the kiwi posters on here get so riled up...

Now I'm really confused. Where's that then ?

All over the thread.

didn't see it either myself...

I'm sure MM will provide some examples.

I'm sure he will too.

optimist wrote:Aucklandlaurie wrote:
"He wasnt awarded the accolade by the descendants of a French aristocrat, but by the International Olympic Committee, in fact it is the highest Olympic award. Umaga is the only rugby player in the history of the game to have been awarded this decoration.Sportsmanship and fairplay are very rare virtues and should be recognised."

You're right that Tana Umaga is the only rugby player to have been awarded the medal, which by the way wasn't instituted when Baron de Coubertin founded the modern Olympics in 1896, but almost 70 years later in 1964. Though having played and followed rugby for 60 years, I don't agree that sportsmanship and fair play are very rare, having seen numerous examples at various levels of the game during that time.
But Umaga certainly did extremely well to stop playing, without waiting for the referee, and help Colin Charvis, who had been knocked out in a tackle by Jerry Collins, during a Wales v New Zealand game. It showed an appreciation of the situation which many players wouldn't have had in the heat of a test match. Charvis was very grateful afterwards that Umaga had removed his gum shield and put him in the recovery position so quickly.

I agree optimist, I was at a schools' game where the opposition fullback raced up the pitch to a guy who had been left on the ground and drew everyone's attention to the situation (broken leg turned out). Basic first aid deserves a medal but thankfully isn't so rare as to require awarding one.