Looking at the Welsh Squad for this years Six Nations

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the Wales team to face England


1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Lee
4. Jones
5. Ball
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Webb
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. JD2
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Baldwin
17. James
18. Jarvis
19. Charteris
20. Tipuric
21. Phillips
22. Preistland
23. Williams


WALES 2015 SIX NATIONS SQUAD:


Forwards:
Looseheads
Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Paul James (Bath), Rob Evans (Scarlets)

Tightheads
Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues)

Hookers
Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)

Locks
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro)

Blindsides
Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), James King (Ospreys)

Opensides
Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)

Number 8
Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)


Backs:

Scrumhalves
Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets),

Fly halves
Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues)

Centres
Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Wings
Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints),

Fullbacks
Liam Williams (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)

Gwlad, Anscombe has been far from great for the Blues. He's shown potential, but I'd say in each game so far he's been 50% good and 50% bad. He had a decent game Vs Dragons but tbh I didn't think he was that good, but there were no other candidates for MOTM really. So to answer your question he has a few weeks to do a lot more to show he's worth a shot on the bench.

Our depth is looking good, but a lot of them are untested.

The Saint wrote:Gwlad, Anscombe has been far from great for the Blues. He's shown potential, but I'd say in each game so far he's been 50% good and 50% bad. He had a decent game Vs Dragons but tbh I didn't think he was that good, but there were no other candidates for MOTM really. So to answer your question he has a few weeks to do a lot more to show he's worth a shot on the bench.

Our depth is looking good, but a lot of them are untested.

Options though Saint?

Priestland - i think he has had numerous opportunities to show his worth for Wales and has failed to fulfill any of the promise he showed at RWC 11. At his worst he is a liability.
Williams - untested as you say, fair enough he is the form Premiership 10 and owns Leicester shirt but to expect him to come into the set up now pre RWC when he isn't even playing in Wales seems a big ask.
Hook - just no. Enough already with him, i really think Anscombe offers more as back up 10
Anscombe - untested, but raised in NZ QED he must be better than everyone else. I think he has settled in as 10 very well. yes he has a way to go but he hasn't been here 5 minutes. As for the mom v dragons, he deserved it and so did gethin.
Mathew Morgan - what is the story with him? Injury?

I honestly think Gats would already have said to Anscombe that if he can hold down the 10 shirt for Blues he will get his shot and now is the time, i just dont see the reason for coming here otherwise….having lived in Newport i can assure you the transporter bridge isn't that big a draw even for him

I still think we will see him as bench option in the 6 Nations. Only way back for RP is if Biggar is injured IMO

I said either on this thread or a similar one that I think our options are very limited. I was hopeful of Owen Williams being afforded an opportunity, deservedly so IMO, but I think his re-signing with Tigers has harmed his chances. Apart from Biggar no other fly-half is playing well at all and it worries me. Due to the fact that RP can be so badly erratic I vouched for Hook as 2nd choice, though I also accept he's pretty average as well. He was never as bad as RP though.

There is a chance Gats said that to his fellow kiwi, and due to our limited options you may be right. The only hope is for Patchell to return from injury and slot in at 10 ahead of Anscombe at the Blues. Sounds pretty unlikely.

What is the story with Mathew Morgan?

Gwlad wrote:What is the story with Mathew Morgan?

He's injured

Seems like Lee has suspected disc problems in his neck

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:What is the story with Mathew Morgan?

He's injured

Is he again? He was injured, but made his comeback last week. Has he picked up another one?

For what its worth I think Anscombe will be selected but I don't think he should be, I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary since he's been here and making the Blues 10 shirt his own isn't hard given Patchell is out injured.

Priestlands form has been improving but his confidence is his problem.

For me O Williams should be given a go, he's performing week in week out for Leicester and for me it doesn't matter where he is playing his club rugby.

But like I said I think Anscombe will be involved.

I think Gatland may select both actually and see who handles camp the best. Based on his statement regarding all games being pre RWC preparation i think he is looking at the 6 Nations as a dress rehearsal big competition, after beating SA the pressure is somewhat off him I think regarding 6 Nations results. With key players like Launchbury Manu and Cole out i honestly see no major concerns about England coming to Cardiff and feel our big backs may rule the roost. It is the perfect opportunity to see which of these 10s is going to become the back up to Biggar. I would like to see Morgan in there too and if Patchell is ready then perhaps it is his time but i just don't know why he hasn't figured until now…injury?

I can't see Morgan being involved at any level while he is at Bristol or until/if they get promoted. I think the 3 No10s will be Biggar, Priestland and Anscombe but like I said for me it would be Williams ahead of Anscombe.

Morgan's move was certainly a strange one but he was selected for SA whilst that move was public so I think the one certainty for 2015 is that the normal rules won't apply. Bristol are coming up anyway i think, though Worcester could do it i suppose. I just think Morgan needs to be in the mix as he has that Shane Williams potential we need.

Bristol were expected to go up last year to lol. I would love to see Morgan involved but Bristol will have to come up for it to happen IMO.

bedfordwelsh wrote:For what its worth I think Anscombe will be selected but I don't think he should be, I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary since he's been here and making the Blues 10 shirt his own isn't hard given Patchell is out injured.

Priestlands form has been improving but his confidence is his problem.

For me O Williams should be given a go, he's performing week in week out for Leicester and for me it doesn't matter where he is playing his club rugby.

But like I said I think Anscombe will be involved.

Bedford, you don't half make me laugh, for about a month before and during the AIs you were advocating playing the same team in the NZ and SA games as certain players wouldn't be available for both (primarily English and French based players) and now you want to pick a player who has deliberately shunned Wales by extending his contract with Leicester over someone who has deliberately come from a reasonable standard of Rugby to try to play for the country of his mother, to me there is not a lot of difference in their playing standard, so personally I would definately pick Anscombe before Williams at this moment in time in these circumstances, giving him (Anscombe) a Dual Contract is a different matter altogether.

My three 10s would be Biggar, O.Williams and Anscombe. That's if he picks three, if not then just the first two. It's an odd call to select Anscombe given his form I agree, but if they do then it will be just to tie him to Wales, he might not feature there after (Pretorious anyone?). Selecting Priestland is an even more dim-witted call though.

The Saint wrote:My three 10s would be Biggar, O.Williams and Anscombe. That's if he picks three, if not then just the first two. It's an odd call to select Anscombe given his form I agree, but if they do then it will be just to tie him to Wales, he might not feature there after (Pretorious anyone?). Selecting Priestland is an even more dim-witted call though.

Saint, I agree about picking Williams ahead of Priestland, as IMO Priestland has given up on his Welsh career without too much of a fight, as for the other 2, I'm sorry have to disagree for the reasons I gave, there is very little IMO in their capabilities and one has made a conscious decision to come and commit to Wales while the other has done the exact opposite.
Don't forget for the free weekends of the 6N Williams will be forced to return to the Tigers, Anscombe wont.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:For what its worth I think Anscombe will be selected but I don't think he should be, I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary since he's been here and making the Blues 10 shirt his own isn't hard given Patchell is out injured.

Priestlands form has been improving but his confidence is his problem.

For me O Williams should be given a go, he's performing week in week out for Leicester and for me it doesn't matter where he is playing his club rugby.

But like I said I think Anscombe will be involved.

Bedford, you don't half make me laugh, for about a month before and during the AIs you were advocating playing the same team in the NZ and SA games as certain players wouldn't be available for both (primarily English and French based players) and now you want to pick a player who has deliberately shunned Wales by extending his contract with Leicester over someone who has deliberately come from a reasonable standard of Rugby to try to play for the country of his mother, to me there is not a lot of difference in their playing standard, so personally I would definately pick Anscombe before Williams at this moment in time in these circumstances, giving him (Anscombe) a Dual Contract is a different matter altogether.  

Wayne,

I stand by that from the AIs but have you seen anything to say that O Williams (if selected) won't be available for the 6 Nations I haven't. I don't really care where they play their rugby but I haven't seen anything from Anscombe to say he should be fats tracked into the Welsh set or (if rumours believed) be given a DC.

I have though said more than once is let him prove himself here first then I won't have a problem.

Williams would potentially be playing for Leicester the week before the England game and during both break weekends. Although potentially they may rest him to give Burns a solid run, the issue with the PRL is if he's rested by the club but played by someone else. But that would be up to Cockerill, personally it makes more sense resting Williams and give Burns a run.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:For what its worth I think Anscombe will be selected but I don't think he should be, I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary since he's been here and making the Blues 10 shirt his own isn't hard given Patchell is out injured.

Priestlands form has been improving but his confidence is his problem.

For me O Williams should be given a go, he's performing week in week out for Leicester and for me it doesn't matter where he is playing his club rugby.

But like I said I think Anscombe will be involved.

Bedford, you don't half make me laugh, for about a month before and during the AIs you were advocating playing the same team in the NZ and SA games as certain players wouldn't be available for both (primarily English and French based players) and now you want to pick a player who has deliberately shunned Wales by extending his contract with Leicester over someone who has deliberately come from a reasonable standard of Rugby to try to play for the country of his mother, to me there is not a lot of difference in their playing standard, so personally I would definately pick Anscombe before Williams at this moment in time in these circumstances, giving him (Anscombe) a Dual Contract is a different matter altogether.  

Wayne,

I stand by that from the AIs but have you seen anything to say that O Williams (if selected) won't be available for the 6 Nations I haven't.  I don't really care where they play their rugby but I haven't seen anything from Anscombe to say he should be fats tracked into the Welsh set or (if rumours believed) be given a DC.

I have though said more than once is let him prove himself here first then I won't have a problem.

Bedford he will NOT be available to the Team Wales set up for the 13 days before the 6N,just a few days in the first week and for the 2nd week, he HAS to return in the weeks where there are no games whereas Anscombe will be with the Welsh set up, unless not in the Team 23 a few days before each game, and then he decides to extend his Tigers contract with all its ramifications for Team Wales training throughout the year.
I've been on here before stating that any player that decides to leave Wales or extends a contract for after the 2015 World Cup, should NOT be eligible for Team Wales as is the case with England and New Zealand, we NEED strong Regions as well as a strong National Team, I've been advocating this stance for well over a year, it is getting a little better with the stance being forced by RRW or whatever it is now called.
I've already stated my stance as far as Anscombe is concerned over DCs, that doesn't alter the fact that IMO he should be selected for the 6N BEFORE Williams, because of Williams's total disregard for his Team Wales ambitions.

HammerofThunor wrote:Williams would potentially be playing for Leicester the week before the England game and during both break weekends.  Although potentially they may rest him to give Burns a solid run, the issue with the PRL is if he's rested by the club but played by someone else.  But that would be up to Cockerill, personally it makes more sense resting Williams and give Burns a run.

Hammer,

Understood and that may well play against him in terms of selection but he would still be available for the games themselves and if he's rested by his club then there is no one else for him to play for anyway.

HammerofThunor wrote:Williams would potentially be playing for Leicester the week before the England game and during both break weekends.  Although potentially they may rest him to give Burns a solid run, the issue with the PRL is if he's rested by the club but played by someone else.  But that would be up to Cockerill, personally it makes more sense resting Williams and give Burns a run.

I agree Hammer, yet Leicester would have him back and he would NOT be available for TW training

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:For what its worth I think Anscombe will be selected but I don't think he should be, I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary since he's been here and making the Blues 10 shirt his own isn't hard given Patchell is out injured.

Priestlands form has been improving but his confidence is his problem.

For me O Williams should be given a go, he's performing week in week out for Leicester and for me it doesn't matter where he is playing his club rugby.

But like I said I think Anscombe will be involved.

Bedford, you don't half make me laugh, for about a month before and during the AIs you were advocating playing the same team in the NZ and SA games as certain players wouldn't be available for both (primarily English and French based players) and now you want to pick a player who has deliberately shunned Wales by extending his contract with Leicester over someone who has deliberately come from a reasonable standard of Rugby to try to play for the country of his mother, to me there is not a lot of difference in their playing standard, so personally I would definately pick Anscombe before Williams at this moment in time in these circumstances, giving him (Anscombe) a Dual Contract is a different matter altogether.  

Wayne,

I stand by that from the AIs but have you seen anything to say that O Williams (if selected) won't be available for the 6 Nations I haven't.  I don't really care where they play their rugby but I haven't seen anything from Anscombe to say he should be fats tracked into the Welsh set or (if rumours believed) be given a DC.

I have though said more than once is let him prove himself here first then I won't have a problem.

Bedford he will NOT be available to the Team Wales set up for the 13 days before the 6N,just a few days in the first week and for the 2nd week, he HAS to return in the weeks where there are no games whereas Anscombe will be with the Welsh set up, unless not in the Team 23 a few days before each game, and then he decides to extend his Tigers contract with all its ramifications for Team Wales training throughout the year.
I've been on here before stating that any player that decides to leave Wales or extends a contract for after the 2015 World Cup, should NOT be eligible for Team Wales as is the case with England and New Zealand, we NEED strong Regions as well as a strong National Team, I've been advocating this stance for well over a year, it is getting a little better with the stance being forced by RRW or whatever it is now called.
I've already stated my stance as far as Anscombe is concerned over DCs, that doesn't alter the fact that IMO he should be selected for the 6N BEFORE Williams, because of Williams's total disregard for his Team Wales ambitions.    

Wayne,

Got nothing against your stance but that's not mine, I understand when or when not he won't be available but I would rather see our players play than be couped up in camp for such a long period. Yes you risk injuries but then players get injured in training its the nature of the beast.

By players moving outside of Wales it allows youngsters to come through, after all Williams left because he wasn't getting game time in the first place. England like Wales have clauses in their system so they could pick players outside of England if they wanted as is rumoured with Armitage, I just don't think we would be stupid to totally cut off players just because they are not in the Regions but what I would at least expect is for them to be 1st choice for whatever club they are at.

Let's say Williams or Roberts even came back to Wales and for argument sake went to the Blues then he would be playing at a lower level in Europe than if he was to stay with the Tigers which is not what we want our players to be doing.

wayne wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Williams would potentially be playing for Leicester the week before the England game and during both break weekends.  Although potentially they may rest him to give Burns a solid run, the issue with the PRL is if he's rested by the club but played by someone else.  But that would be up to Cockerill, personally it makes more sense resting Williams and give Burns a run.

I agree Hammer, yet Leicester would have him back and he would NOT be available for TW training

But he would be training and playing which for me is of more benefit. I bet if you asked all the players then the biggest majority of them if they were honest would say they would rather be playing than training.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wayne wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Williams would potentially be playing for Leicester the week before the England game and during both break weekends.  Although potentially they may rest him to give Burns a solid run, the issue with the PRL is if he's rested by the club but played by someone else.  But that would be up to Cockerill, personally it makes more sense resting Williams and give Burns a run.

I agree Hammer, yet Leicester would have him back and he would NOT be available for TW training

But he would be training and playing which for me is of more benefit.  I bet if you asked all the players then the biggest majority of them if they were honest would say they would rather be playing than training.

So you think, the majority would take the chance to go out of the TW setup, to go back to their clubs and play, so missing the camaraderie of that set up and learning new moves within TW, obviously Williams would, but for the majority playing for Wales is the PINNACLE and they would rather stay within TW, we will have to agree to disagree and more to the point, you are arguing against the point you were making in the Autumn

I don't agree that if a player is playing outside Wales that he should be excluded from the Welsh squad on principle, they are working men who have families and careers, that sort of cutting nose off to spite face is exactly the sort of rhetoric that you would expect to come from the WRU and if it wasn't for Gatland's obviously inspired DC scheme we would still be flailing around looking like chumps. Also look at the reasons they go, take a star like Morgan for example who had to leave as he wasn't going to get picked by Ospreys. However i do believe in strong regions and luckily for us DCs should eradicate the problem pretty quickly now that the WRU have stopped being so intransigent. Any way we can encourage players to come back should be taken but they should dn to be punished if they don't.
As for Williams and Anscombe, lets have them both in camp; Anscombe is going to get a shot and Williams deserves one and will be available for the RWC so IMO now is the time to show him where to hang his boots.

Gwlad wrote:I don't agree that if a player is playing outside Wales that he should be excluded from the Welsh squad on principle, they are working men who have families and careers, that sort of cutting nose off to spite face is exactly the sort of rhetoric that you would expect to come from the WRU and if it wasn't for Gatland's obviously inspired DC scheme we would still be flailing around looking like chumps. Also look at the reasons they go, take a star like Morgan for example who had to leave as he wasn't going to get picked by Ospreys. However i do believe in strong regions and luckily for us  DCs should eradicate the problem pretty quickly now that the WRU have stopped being so intransigent. Any way we can encourage players to come back should be taken but they should dn to be punished if they don't.
As for Williams and Anscombe, lets have them both in camp; Anscombe is going to get a shot and Williams deserves one and will be available for the RWC so IMO now is the time to show him where to hang his boots.

Gwlad,

I think, for once we are in agreement. If Anscombe AND Williams were in squad then ok but not instead of Williams.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:I don't agree that if a player is playing outside Wales that he should be excluded from the Welsh squad on principle, they are working men who have families and careers, that sort of cutting nose off to spite face is exactly the sort of rhetoric that you would expect to come from the WRU and if it wasn't for Gatland's obviously inspired DC scheme we would still be flailing around looking like chumps. Also look at the reasons they go, take a star like Morgan for example who had to leave as he wasn't going to get picked by Ospreys. However i do believe in strong regions and luckily for us  DCs should eradicate the problem pretty quickly now that the WRU have stopped being so intransigent. Any way we can encourage players to come back should be taken but they should dn to be punished if they don't.
As for Williams and Anscombe, lets have them both in camp; Anscombe is going to get a shot and Williams deserves one and will be available for the RWC so IMO now is the time to show him where to hang his boots.

Gwlad,

I think, for once we are in agreement.  If Anscombe AND Williams were in squad then ok but not instead of Williams.

Not for long!!

I would have to disagree and say that there is no way with William's limited availability that he will get the nod over Anscombe. I don't agree with that entirely as i think he deserves a spot, but facts are facts and if wayne is correct and his availability is so severely curtailed by PRL then I see no alternative. And that i guess is what the WRU is banking on, that players severely harm their own chances by playing outside Wales due to stupid rules. Anyway I want and expect to see both in. And Hook gone not least because I think it is unfair on the poor guy to use him they way he has been used.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:I don't agree that if a player is playing outside Wales that he should be excluded from the Welsh squad on principle, they are working men who have families and careers, that sort of cutting nose off to spite face is exactly the sort of rhetoric that you would expect to come from the WRU and if it wasn't for Gatland's obviously inspired DC scheme we would still be flailing around looking like chumps. Also look at the reasons they go, take a star like Morgan for example who had to leave as he wasn't going to get picked by Ospreys. However i do believe in strong regions and luckily for us  DCs should eradicate the problem pretty quickly now that the WRU have stopped being so intransigent. Any way we can encourage players to come back should be taken but they should dn to be punished if they don't.
As for Williams and Anscombe, lets have them both in camp; Anscombe is going to get a shot and Williams deserves one and will be available for the RWC so IMO now is the time to show him where to hang his boots.

Gwlad,

I think, for once we are in agreement.  If Anscombe AND Williams were in squad then ok but not instead of Williams.

I also can agree IF there are 3 selected those should be the 3, yet if it is 2 as Gatland has selected in the past it should be Biggar and Anscombe, and Gwlad I don't know who you support but apart for 2 years due to health reasons I've been a Season Ticket holder at the Ospreys since the move to the Liberty and IF you think Morgan is or ever has been a star except for once or twice you are sadly mistaken, he was given ample opportunities to showcase his talents, I as an ex hooker could control a game better than he ever could, and for all his efforts in tackling he was technically useless at it, he was like a saloon door.

No I agree his availability or lack of it is likely to affect him especially as he is not an established member of the squad but for me it doesn't make a lot of difference as like I said I think a lot of players would rather be playing than stuck in camp.

We are notoriously slow starters and I wonder if that is something to do with the fact that the guys haven't played for a fair while by the time the first game comes around.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:I don't agree that if a player is playing outside Wales that he should be excluded from the Welsh squad on principle, they are working men who have families and careers, that sort of cutting nose off to spite face is exactly the sort of rhetoric that you would expect to come from the WRU and if it wasn't for Gatland's obviously inspired DC scheme we would still be flailing around looking like chumps. Also look at the reasons they go, take a star like Morgan for example who had to leave as he wasn't going to get picked by Ospreys. However i do believe in strong regions and luckily for us  DCs should eradicate the problem pretty quickly now that the WRU have stopped being so intransigent. Any way we can encourage players to come back should be taken but they should dn to be punished if they don't.
As for Williams and Anscombe, lets have them both in camp; Anscombe is going to get a shot and Williams deserves one and will be available for the RWC so IMO now is the time to show him where to hang his boots.

Gwlad,

I think, for once we are in agreement.  If Anscombe AND Williams were in squad then ok but not instead of Williams.

I also can agree IF there are 3 selected those should be the 3, yet if it is 2 as Gatland has selected in the past it should be Biggar and Anscombe, and Gwlad I don't know who you support but apart for 2 years due to health reasons I've been a Season Ticket holder at the Ospreys since the move to the Liberty and IF you think Morgan is or ever has been a star except for once or twice you are sadly mistaken, he was given ample opportunities to showcase his talents, I as an ex hooker could control a game better than he ever could, and for all his efforts in tackling he was technically useless at it, he was like a saloon door.  

Fair enough Wayne, i never disagree with a hooker being a loose head. And I am a Dragons fan.

But why did he get selected for SA then?

bedfordwelsh wrote:No I agree his availability or lack of it is likely to affect him especially as he is not an established member of the squad but for me it doesn't make a lot of difference as like I said I think a lot of players would rather be playing than stuck in camp.

We are notoriously slow starters and I wonder if that is something to do with the fact that the guys haven't played for a fair while by the time the first game comes around.

Just looking at fixtures, same as 2005 though Ireland penultimate game this year. I think any of 4 teams could win this year and that if Wales do win their opener they could do the slam again!!

Going abroad to play, and re-signing contracts if you're already playing there certainly is a disregard for team Wales. Those guys should be a last resort, and if RP is the only option because he's playing in Wales, then that's a last resort.

I never understood Morgan's move to Bristol but ah well. He is certainly a much better player than Sam Davies. Biggar has improved a lot recently, and given his contrasting style of play to Morgan's I think MM would certainly be choice No.2 if he was still at Ospreys. Davies doesn't really offer anything IMO, I'm still struggling to see how he won U20 POTY ahead of Clifford, never mind the other Wales stand-outs.

The Saint wrote:Going abroad to play, and re-signing contracts if you're already playing there certainly is a disregard for team Wales. Those guys should be a last resort, and if RP is the only option because he's playing in Wales, then that's a last resort.

I never understood Morgan's move to Bristol but ah well. He is certainly a much better player than Sam Davies. Biggar has improved a lot recently, and given his contrasting style of play to Morgan's I think MM would certainly be choice No.2 if he was still at Ospreys. Davies doesn't really offer anything IMO, I'm still struggling to see how he won U20 POTY ahead of Clifford, never mind the other Wales stand-outs.

I really don't understand this sort of view….has Jamie Roberts or any of the other players in France shown any 'disregard' for team Wales or have they shown a total and utter commitment to the side for years. Should they hinder their own career progression and earning potential in what is a free market with a limited career window. If the regions and the WRU hadn't made such a pigs ear of the playing environment in Wales - mostly the WRU who didn't want to pay up and acknowledge they were an employer not a mercenary outfit - and had they all realized where they would end up anyway with DCs, then i think most of this could have been avoided and the players would have largely stayed in Wales as has been shown by the return of many so quickly. We talk about commitment and disregard but what about reciprocity? The only failings any of these players can be accused of is failing to negotiate the right releases to allow them to pursue their national aspirations. PLaying abroad and for Wales is not and should not be mutually exclusive.

So would people rather go back to the days of league converts when we couldn't use them and had to field some god awful players and cut our nose off to spite face by not picking players who we can because of where they play?

The Saint wrote:Going abroad to play, and re-signing contracts if you're already playing there certainly is a disregard for team Wales. Those guys should be a last resort, and if RP is the only option because he's playing in Wales, then that's a last resort.

I never understood Morgan's move to Bristol but ah well. He is certainly a much better player than Sam Davies. Biggar has improved a lot recently, and given his contrasting style of play to Morgan's I think MM would certainly be choice No.2 if he was still at Ospreys. Davies doesn't really offer anything IMO, I'm still struggling to see how he won U20 POTY ahead of Clifford, never mind the other Wales stand-outs.

Saint, I agree with your first paragraph, as to your second why do you think Mathew was NEVER offered a new contract at the Ospreys, because he was never suited to our style of play and wasn't rated by our coaches and the vast majority of our fans. Sam is a far better suit for our style of play especially our kicking game, which with the signing of Evans and Matavesi is integral to our style, and is ten times the better tackler.

I'd welcome fewer team Wales games. Less is more, as the saying goes.

bedfordwelsh wrote:So would people rather go back to the days of league converts when we couldn't use them and had to field some god awful players and cut our nose off to spite face by not picking players who we can because of where they play?

Well Bedford plenty of other countries are going down that road, including England, NZ and Aus, as I said earlier I've been advocating play in Wales to play for Wales for well over a year, this to start after the 2015 WC, if you are in the middle of a contract it doesn't apply, yet if you extend that contract, in ONLY extreme circumstances can this be ignored, if the majority of players who have Wales aspirations are playing in Wales, we wont have god awful teams, I notice in the Fail this week that the Doc has said he will not be coming back to Wales very soon, if that means he is going to sign another contract, well for me that means, Morgan, Dixon, Allen and Beck get your Welsh boots ready and any other player coming through.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:So would people rather go back to the days of league converts when we couldn't use them and had to field some god awful players and cut our nose off to spite face by not picking players who we can because of where they play?

Well Bedford plenty of other countries are going down that road, including England, NZ and Aus, as I said earlier I've been advocating play in Wales to play for Wales for well over a year, this to start after the 2015 WC, if you are in the middle of a contract it doesn't apply, yet if you extend that contract, in ONLY extreme circumstances can this be ignored, if the majority of players who have Wales aspirations are playing in Wales, we wont have god awful teams, I notice in the Fail this week that the Doc has said he will not be coming back to Wales very soon, if that means he is going to sign another contract, well for me that means, Morgan, Dixon, Allen and Beck get your Welsh boots ready and any other player coming through.

I can understand the SH sides doing it due to the distance but what with our closeness to England and France plus cross border European games it's not hard to keep track on how players are performing. As for England they have a much larger player base to choose from than us as it is so I just can't see why we would want to limit out choices even further.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:So would people rather go back to the days of league converts when we couldn't use them and had to field some god awful players and cut our nose off to spite face by not picking players who we can because of where they play?

Well Bedford plenty of other countries are going down that road, including England, NZ and Aus, as I said earlier I've been advocating play in Wales to play for Wales for well over a year, this to start after the 2015 WC, if you are in the middle of a contract it doesn't apply, yet if you extend that contract, in ONLY extreme circumstances can this be ignored, if the majority of players who have Wales aspirations are playing in Wales, we wont have god awful teams, I notice in the Fail this week that the Doc has said he will not be coming back to Wales very soon, if that means he is going to sign another contract, well for me that means, Morgan, Dixon, Allen and Beck get your Welsh boots ready and any other player coming through.

Makes no sense, has Doc's contract abroad ever impacted on hi ability to play for Wales? It si not up to the players to shore up the fiasco that has been regional welsh rugby for the last few years, rather it is the responsibility of the game's administrators to provide an environment where they want to play. As for Doc himself, this is a guy who qualified as a doctor whilst playing regional and national rugby, questioning his commitment like this is ridiculous and the sort of die hard inflexibility that is most often seen at the WRU

If Morgan, Dixon, Allen or Beck were playing to a level of Roberts then maybe I could agree but they are not/haven't done so to pick then just because Doc is playing outside of Wales and weaken the team is just, to me carzy.

bedfordwelsh wrote:If Morgan, Dixon, Allen or Beck were playing to a level of Roberts then maybe I could agree but they are not/haven't done so to pick then just because Doc is playing outside of Wales and weaken the team is just, to me carzy.

I agree - again.

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If Morgan, Dixon, Allen or Beck were playing to a level of Roberts then maybe I could agree but they are not/haven't done so to pick then just because Doc is playing outside of Wales and weaken the team is just, to me carzy.

I agree - again.

Me too

Gwlad wrote:

The Saint wrote:Going abroad to play, and re-signing contracts if you're already playing there certainly is a disregard for team Wales. Those guys should be a last resort, and if RP is the only option because he's playing in Wales, then that's a last resort.

I never understood Morgan's move to Bristol but ah well. He is certainly a much better player than Sam Davies. Biggar has improved a lot recently, and given his contrasting style of play to Morgan's I think MM would certainly be choice No.2 if he was still at Ospreys. Davies doesn't really offer anything IMO, I'm still struggling to see how he won U20 POTY ahead of Clifford, never mind the other Wales stand-outs.

I really don't understand this sort of view….has Jamie Roberts or any of the other players in France shown any 'disregard' for team Wales or have they shown a total and utter commitment to the side for years. Should they hinder their own career progression and earning potential in what is a free market with a limited career window. If the regions and the WRU hadn't made such a pigs ear of the playing environment in Wales - mostly the WRU who didn't want to pay up and acknowledge they were an employer not a mercenary outfit - and had they all realized where they would end up anyway with DCs, then i think most of this could have been avoided and the players would have largely stayed in Wales as has been shown by the return of many so quickly. We talk about commitment and disregard but what about reciprocity? The only failings any of these players can be accused of is failing to negotiate the right releases to allow them to pursue their national aspirations. PLaying abroad and for Wales is not and should not be mutually exclusive.

When those guys signed the game in Wales was in disarray. Players and the union were unsure of the future of the game in Wales, plus we didn't have DCs then. There's time later in a player's career to top up their pension. Now that DC's in, players going abroad and re-signing current overseas contract is disregard for Wales. If you believe rumours, Roberts is on his way back to Wales.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:So would people rather go back to the days of league converts when we couldn't use them and had to field some god awful players and cut our nose off to spite face by not picking players who we can because of where they play?

Well Bedford plenty of other countries are going down that road, including England, NZ and Aus, as I said earlier I've been advocating play in Wales to play for Wales for well over a year, this to start after the 2015 WC, if you are in the middle of a contract it doesn't apply, yet if you extend that contract, in ONLY extreme circumstances can this be ignored, if the majority of players who have Wales aspirations are playing in Wales, we wont have god awful teams, I notice in the Fail this week that the Doc has said he will not be coming back to Wales very soon, if that means he is going to sign another contract, well for me that means, Morgan, Dixon, Allen and Beck get your Welsh boots ready and any other player coming through.

Well said Wayne. And that's the first I heard of Roberts but ah well. Scott Williams is playing well.

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If Morgan, Dixon, Allen or Beck were playing to a level of Roberts then maybe I could agree but they are not/haven't done so to pick then just because Doc is playing outside of Wales and weaken the team is just, to me carzy.

I agree - again.

Me too

Sorry, I don't, it didn't seem to affect these teams when the like of Wilkinson, Giteau, Thorn, Hayman etc left their countries to chase the dollar or franc as it is, the players quoted here were not only first choice for their countries some have argued in the past that they were close to being the best in the world, there were many on here and some pundits advocating the dropping of Doc and installing Scott not so long ago, and another example Halfpenny is reputedly (Fail) the third highest paid club player in the world, yet there have been many pundits and on this and other boards have wanted Liam put into the full back position for Wales.
Look I have no objection to these players enhancing their wallets, it can be a very short career and if it means a comfortable living afterwards all well and good, as long as they understand it means for the period that they are playing out of Wales they are NOT eligible for Wales, except under extreme circumstances.

I would pick Liam Williams at XV because he is playing better than Halfpenny NOT because Halfpenny is playing France, I would have Halfpenny on the wing ahead of Cuthbert or North.

Likewise I would be happy to see Sc Williams in ahead of Doc or JD if it is deemed he is playing better than them which arguably he is but again not pick him if the only reason was because the others are playing in France.

As I said earlier in the SH case its hard to keep tabs on Giteau, Thorn and Hayman and some would say JWs best was behind him when he went though they did pick him and Haskell when they first went so they aren't perfect examples.

The Saint wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

The Saint wrote:Going abroad to play, and re-signing contracts if you're already playing there certainly is a disregard for team Wales. Those guys should be a last resort, and if RP is the only option because he's playing in Wales, then that's a last resort.

I never understood Morgan's move to Bristol but ah well. He is certainly a much better player than Sam Davies. Biggar has improved a lot recently, and given his contrasting style of play to Morgan's I think MM would certainly be choice No.2 if he was still at Ospreys. Davies doesn't really offer anything IMO, I'm still struggling to see how he won U20 POTY ahead of Clifford, never mind the other Wales stand-outs.

I really don't understand this sort of view….has Jamie Roberts or any of the other players in France shown any 'disregard' for team Wales or have they shown a total and utter commitment to the side for years. Should they hinder their own career progression and earning potential in what is a free market with a limited career window. If the regions and the WRU hadn't made such a pigs ear of the playing environment in Wales - mostly the WRU who didn't want to pay up and acknowledge they were an employer not a mercenary outfit - and had they all realized where they would end up anyway with DCs, then i think most of this could have been avoided and the players would have largely stayed in Wales as has been shown by the return of many so quickly. We talk about commitment and disregard but what about reciprocity? The only failings any of these players can be accused of is failing to negotiate the right releases to allow them to pursue their national aspirations. PLaying abroad and for Wales is not and should not be mutually exclusive.

When those guys signed the game in Wales was in disarray. Players and the union were unsure of the future of the game in Wales, plus we didn't have DCs then. There's time later in a player's career to top up their pension. Now that DC's in, players going abroad and re-signing current overseas contract is disregard for Wales. If you believe rumours, Roberts is on his way back to Wales.

Rumour also has it that he is earning 380k and Half 500k….can't see the DC system competing even for these two but maybe it will. The WRU are not in a position to buy him out apparently, not that we know for certain he wants out…Paris or South Wales is not a tough one (even right now)

Now, i don't know what your trade is but would you accept markedly less money for doing your job in Wales - the market sets your value - by coming back to Wales when you can earn much more for the same job abroad. Why should Welsh rugby players be different? This sort of parochial play in wales to play for wales attitude is out of date is without merit. It's a professional, global sport and players should be able to play where they want. Perhaps i agree that if they do not negotiate full releases them some sort of punitive action seems justifiable but otherwise i think it is very short sighted, almost abusive in that it is almost holding players to ransom. The argument that it harms the regions is also debatable, it is a money ball game and what needs to be addressed is how clubs finance themselves and what support they get to remain competitive

Let's be honest as well it's not as if the Regions winning things in abundance when all these players were originally in Wales?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Let's be honest as well it's not as if the Regions winning things in abundance when all these players were originally in Wales?

I think people have very short memories. The players didn't leave because they were bored of Newport nightlife, they left because the regions and WRU made a total mess of their working environment which had a direct impact on their careers and because other employers were keen to realize their true value. PLaying abroad is a sign of success, its how we manage them playing abroad that is what needs sorting

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Let's be honest as well it's not as if the Regions winning things in abundance when all these players were originally in Wales?

I think people have very short memories. The players didn't leave because they were bored of Newport nightlife, they left because the regions and WRU made a total mess of their working environment which had a direct impact on their careers and because other employers were keen to realize their true value. PLaying abroad is a sign of success, its how we manage them playing abroad that is what needs sorting

Those playing in France get released when we want them which is all we can ask. Those in England are subjected to the blwdi PRL and it's BS agendas.

Gwlad wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

The Saint wrote:Going abroad to play, and re-signing contracts if you're already playing there certainly is a disregard for team Wales. Those guys should be a last resort, and if RP is the only option because he's playing in Wales, then that's a last resort.

I never understood Morgan's move to Bristol but ah well. He is certainly a much better player than Sam Davies. Biggar has improved a lot recently, and given his contrasting style of play to Morgan's I think MM would certainly be choice No.2 if he was still at Ospreys. Davies doesn't really offer anything IMO, I'm still struggling to see how he won U20 POTY ahead of Clifford, never mind the other Wales stand-outs.

I really don't understand this sort of view….has Jamie Roberts or any of the other players in France shown any 'disregard' for team Wales or have they shown a total and utter commitment to the side for years. Should they hinder their own career progression and earning potential in what is a free market with a limited career window. If the regions and the WRU hadn't made such a pigs ear of the playing environment in Wales - mostly the WRU who didn't want to pay up and acknowledge they were an employer not a mercenary outfit - and had they all realized where they would end up anyway with DCs, then i think most of this could have been avoided and the players would have largely stayed in Wales as has been shown by the return of many so quickly. We talk about commitment and disregard but what about reciprocity? The only failings any of these players can be accused of is failing to negotiate the right releases to allow them to pursue their national aspirations. PLaying abroad and for Wales is not and should not be mutually exclusive.

When those guys signed the game in Wales was in disarray. Players and the union were unsure of the future of the game in Wales, plus we didn't have DCs then. There's time later in a player's career to top up their pension. Now that DC's in, players going abroad and re-signing current overseas contract is disregard for Wales. If you believe rumours, Roberts is on his way back to Wales.

Rumour also has it that he is earning 380k and Half 500k….can't see the DC system competing even for these two but maybe it will. The WRU are not in a position to buy him out apparently, not that we know for certain he wants out…Paris or South Wales is not a tough one (even right now)

Now, i don't know what your trade is but would you accept markedly less money for doing your job in Wales - the market sets your value - by coming back to Wales when you can earn much more for the same job abroad. Why should Welsh rugby players be different? This sort of parochial play in wales to play for wales attitude is out of date is without merit. It's a professional, global sport and players should be able to play where they want. Perhaps i agree that if they do not negotiate full releases them some sort of punitive action seems justifiable but otherwise i think it is very short sighted, almost abusive in that it is almost holding players to ransom. The argument that it harms the regions is also debatable, it is a money ball game and what needs to be addressed is how clubs finance themselves and what support they get to remain competitive

Yeah a lot of money. I'd easily go for a better payed job, but tbh I'm only going to work so I can live. I don't live to work. It's a little different for team Wales players I'd like to think. If the market sets the value in rugby then world rugby is doomed because every single player will be in France or Japan. Therefore team Wales should only pick players in Wales, we can't operate without a solid club game. Players going overseas and re-signing now and post 2015 should be discounted. They won't be competitive on a routine basis without the top players.