Looking at the Welsh Squad for this years Six Nations

First topic message reminder :

the Wales team to face England


1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Lee
4. Jones
5. Ball
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Webb
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. JD2
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Baldwin
17. James
18. Jarvis
19. Charteris
20. Tipuric
21. Phillips
22. Preistland
23. Williams


WALES 2015 SIX NATIONS SQUAD:


Forwards:
Looseheads
Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Paul James (Bath), Rob Evans (Scarlets)

Tightheads
Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues)

Hookers
Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)

Locks
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro)

Blindsides
Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), James King (Ospreys)

Opensides
Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)

Number 8
Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)


Backs:

Scrumhalves
Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets),

Fly halves
Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues)

Centres
Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Wings
Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints),

Fullbacks
Liam Williams (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Let's be honest as well it's not as if the Regions winning things in abundance when all these players were originally in Wales?

I think people have very short memories. The players didn't leave because they were bored of Newport nightlife, they left because the regions and WRU made a total mess of their working environment which had a direct impact on their careers and because other employers were keen to realize their true value. PLaying abroad is a sign of success, its how we manage them playing abroad that is what needs sorting

It is certainly not managing them abroad that needs sorting, what a short-sighted view. And in some cases it's practically impossible (PRL negotiates player release for England players only). It is how we manage the players in Wales so more don't have much reason to leave. We're hopefully past the total mess caused by the union and regions, DC's is a sign that we are. Now we can address the game in Wales, guys who want to play for team Wales should be at a Welsh region.

Time for drafting players to make sure everyone gets opportunity and game time...???



With four teams, that possibly gives most positions two players per position to establish themselves as a potential international prospect.

In many ways we need players to play abroad so that we can see more development at the highest level of competition they can play at. On the flip side we need more quality players in Wales so we can halt promoting players to senior ranks when they could be strengthening the premiership.

The Saint wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

The Saint wrote:Going abroad to play, and re-signing contracts if you're already playing there certainly is a disregard for team Wales. Those guys should be a last resort, and if RP is the only option because he's playing in Wales, then that's a last resort.

I never understood Morgan's move to Bristol but ah well. He is certainly a much better player than Sam Davies. Biggar has improved a lot recently, and given his contrasting style of play to Morgan's I think MM would certainly be choice No.2 if he was still at Ospreys. Davies doesn't really offer anything IMO, I'm still struggling to see how he won U20 POTY ahead of Clifford, never mind the other Wales stand-outs.

I really don't understand this sort of view….has Jamie Roberts or any of the other players in France shown any 'disregard' for team Wales or have they shown a total and utter commitment to the side for years. Should they hinder their own career progression and earning potential in what is a free market with a limited career window. If the regions and the WRU hadn't made such a pigs ear of the playing environment in Wales - mostly the WRU who didn't want to pay up and acknowledge they were an employer not a mercenary outfit - and had they all realized where they would end up anyway with DCs, then i think most of this could have been avoided and the players would have largely stayed in Wales as has been shown by the return of many so quickly. We talk about commitment and disregard but what about reciprocity? The only failings any of these players can be accused of is failing to negotiate the right releases to allow them to pursue their national aspirations. PLaying abroad and for Wales is not and should not be mutually exclusive.

When those guys signed the game in Wales was in disarray. Players and the union were unsure of the future of the game in Wales, plus we didn't have DCs then. There's time later in a player's career to top up their pension. Now that DC's in, players going abroad and re-signing current overseas contract is disregard for Wales. If you believe rumours, Roberts is on his way back to Wales.

 You know they left at the same time as Owen Williams left right.

 Apparently Owen had discussed it with WRU who said he would still be picked if he was playing better than the other. (In Gatlands view).

 FYI Gatlands Law doesn't apply to welsh players playing outside of wales at the time so don't see a problem there.

Welly wrote:

When those guys signed the game in Wales was in disarray. Players and the union were unsure of the future of the game in Wales, plus we didn't have DCs then. There's time later in a player's career to top up their pension. Now that DC's in, players going abroad and re-signing current overseas contract is disregard for Wales. If you believe rumours, Roberts is on his way back to Wales.

 You know they left at the same time as Owen Williams left right.

 Apparently Owen had discussed it with WRU who said he would still be picked if he was playing better than the other. (In Gatlands view).

 FYI Gatlands Law doesn't apply to welsh players playing outside of wales at the time so don't see a problem there.[/quote]

I know he was. I don't see your point though as it isn't clear? We don't know for certain, but re-signing with Tigers when he had the change for a DC might have harmed his chances.

Cockers has said that the WRU has been in talks with Tigers

I’m delighted Owen has stayed with us, as I am that Fraser Balmain and Graham Kitchener have signed new deals this week. All three are young men with very bright futures ahead of them.

Owen was courted by Wales but he has seen the bigger picture and has decided to stay at Welford Road. There was dialogue between our club and the Wales management during the process and the reality is that if they think he is good enough, he will play for his country.

There are always some politics in and around that, but that is the bottom line.

We believe the best place for Owen to develop is here. We took a punt bringing him here, gave him the opportunity and he has taken it.

I can also assure people that I want Owen to play for Wales.



http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Richard-Cockerill-column-Owen-Williams-playing/story-25826471-detail/story.html

Not so sure what was said between Tigers and WRU. Regardless of any supposed Gatland law in place or coming in, Owen has a good chance anyway because we have a bit of a 10 crisis.

TBh I don't think he is ready yet anyway though.

 Against the 6N he should be fine but not sure if he is ready against the SH big 3 yet.

"the bigger picture"

I am starting to feel that Castrogiovani's description of "Cockers" was anotmically accurate..!!!

The Saint wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Let's be honest as well it's not as if the Regions winning things in abundance when all these players were originally in Wales?

I think people have very short memories. The players didn't leave because they were bored of Newport nightlife, they left because the regions and WRU made a total mess of their working environment which had a direct impact on their careers and because other employers were keen to realize their true value. PLaying abroad is a sign of success, its how we manage them playing abroad that is what needs sorting

It is certainly not managing them abroad that needs sorting, what a short-sighted view. And in some cases it's practically impossible (PRL negotiates player release for England players only). It is how we manage the players in Wales so more don't have much reason to leave. We're hopefully past the total mess caused by the union and regions, DC's is a sign that we are. Now we can address the game in Wales, guys who want to play for team Wales should be at a Welsh region.

I think your comment about not living to work reveals the misunderstanding you have of what it takes to be a pro rugby player, the drive, commitment and sacrifices they have to make to be effectively, modern gladiators whose body is a club asset while it still functions but quickly becomes expendable. These elite athletes live to play rugby and good for them if they can cash in at the same time. An approach that wants to discriminate against a player and even threatens to harm his national ambitions is some sort of incentive?!
You are entitled to your opinion obviously but i think it is parochial and naive. Its alarming how righteously possessive fans can be over players careers, i think saying that a player can 'top up his pension' misses the point entirely. If they are lucky they have 10 good years of rugby before what? Likely a body that has been destroyed by the heavyweight pro game and a career in coaching or punditry if they want to stay in the game. Otherwise in their mid 30s they have to retrain and start off a new career at the bottom of the ladder.
Its not for any of us to say anything about a player's right to follow the money in a pro game. What makes them any different anyway? And if it wasn't for his spell in France i bet Stephen Jones would never have come good, he was shocking before he left and awesome when he came back. Following the money does not suggest to me a lack of commitment to 'Team Wales', it's a fact of life and economics in the pro era.
Players rightly voted with their feet because the Welsh game was in tatters, i reckon the likes of Doc also voted on lifestyle and why shouldn't they? Now the regions and WRU have stopped the petty  infighting because they must have realized that the players did have a power of sorts. The power to F off to play rugby and get paid better for it while at home their short careers were being made even shorter by bureaucrats.
But now all of a sudden they have sorted themselves out and we are back to snubbing players for playing abroad? Telling them what they should and shouldn't do? Who has the right to do that? They should just give up the life they are leading and just come home because a fan says they aren't committed to Wlaes if they don't? Because our national management threatens to veto them…its that sort of BS that we now emanates form the millennium and it is the regions/WRU that screwed up Welsh rugby, not the players.
Many have come back pretty damned quickly and some remain abroad and will have to make their choice. I just hope that sense prevails and we don't have the same idiotic people holding them to ransom. If they are foolish enough to not negotiate the right releases or choose to move knowing they can't commit to Wales training and matches then fine, they are fair game for those that want to own them.
Truth is when it comes to Doc I am not sure a DC will be in the offing anyway, he is towards the end of his Wales career in my view and i think that you may even see him retire from Wales national side post RWC and if he doesn't he will be phased out.

maestegmafia wrote:"the bigger picture"

I am starting to feel that Castrogiovani's description of "Cockers" was anotmically accurate..!!!

Cockers is the biggest example of small man syndrome i think i have ever seen.

maestegmafia wrote:Andy Howells select XV from the recent Derbies..

15 Liam Williams
14 Lucas Amorisino
13 Regan King
12 Scott Williams
11 Hallam Amos
10 Gareth Anscombe
9 Aled Davies
1 Rob Evans
2 Kirby Myhill
3 Sampson Lee
4 Jake Ball
5 Andrew Coombs
6 Aaron Shingler
7 John Barclay
8 Taulupe Faletau

Can he get any less credible?!

Gwlad wrote:I would shave Baldwin back as understudy after his pert v SA

Freudian slips?

Gwlad wrote:I think your comment about not living to work reveals the misunderstanding you have of what it takes to be a pro rugby player, the drive, commitment and sacrifices they have to make to be effectively, modern gladiators whose body is a club asset while it still functions but quickly becomes expendable. These elite athletes live to play rugby and good for them if they can cash in at the same time. An approach that wants to discriminate against a player and even threatens to harm his national ambitions is some sort of incentive?!

How, because what I was actually getting at is rubgy players SHOULD be living to work. Read what I wrote properly. It's not like they'd be on NMW playing in Wales... The game can only function properly if we have our players at the Regions where most of which can be managed properly via DCs, while other push for the DC. NZ employ this method with good reason. The rest of your comment here is just waffled rubbish.

Gwlad wrote:You are entitled to your opinion obviously but i think it is parochial and naive. Its alarming how righteously possessive fans can be over players careers, i think saying that a player can 'top up his pension' misses the point entirely. If they are lucky they have 10 good years of rugby before what? Likely a body that has been destroyed by the heavyweight pro game and a career in coaching or punditry if they want to stay in the game. Otherwise in their mid 30s they have to retrain and start off a new career at the bottom of the ladder.

I think this is an overexaggeration but okay... It's not parochial and naive at all, it's wanting what's best for the game in Wales. Not the the best for the club game in England or France.

Gwlad wrote:Its not for any of us to say anything about a player's right to follow the money in a pro game. What makes them any different anyway? And if it wasn't for his spell in France i bet Stephen Jones would never have come good, he was shocking before he left and awesome when he came back. Following the money does not suggest to me a lack of commitment to 'Team Wales', it's a fact of life and economics in the pro era.
Players rightly voted with their feet because the Welsh game was in tatters, i reckon the likes of Doc also voted on lifestyle and why shouldn't they? Now the regions and WRU have stopped the petty  infighting because they must have realized that the players did have a power of sorts. The power to F off to play rugby and get paid better for it while at home their short careers were being made even shorter by bureaucrats.

So why are you going to such great lengths to debate the point and keep repeating yourself? I don't buy into Stephen Jones going abroad and improving either, he was at the same level. By the time he came back, both Scarlets and Wales were improved teams and he settled back in. When we weren't good it showed just how limited a player he was - poor example. Oh it certainly does show a lack of commitment for reasons pointed out - again, you must think rugby players in Wales live in poverty to feel so strongly about it. Again, the last part of this paragraph has been previously covered. Just go back and read the comments as I'm not as big a fan of repeating myself.

Gwlad wrote:But now all of a sudden they have sorted themselves out and we are back to snubbing players for playing abroad? Telling them what they should and shouldn't do? Who has the right to do that? They should just give up the life they are leading and just come home because a fan says they aren't committed to Wlaes if they don't? Because our national management threatens to veto them…its that sort of BS that we now emanates form the millennium and it is the regions/WRU that screwed up Welsh rugby, not the players.

Snubbing? Who's snubbing? The psychological contract in place is pretty simple; playing outside of Wales from now on will harm your chances of a call-up except for in extenuating circumstances. The rest of your comment again is rubbish.

Gwlad wrote:Many have come back pretty damned quickly and some remain abroad and will have to make their choice. I just hope that sense prevails and we don't have the same idiotic people holding them to ransom. If they are foolish enough to not negotiate the right releases or choose to move knowing they can't commit to Wales training and matches then fine, they are fair game for those that want to own them.
Truth is when it comes to Doc I am not sure a DC will be in the offing anyway, he is towards the end of his Wales career in my view and i think that you may even see him retire from Wales national side post RWC and if he doesn't he will be phased out.

Yes and I think that's the point that DCs and Gatland is trying to make.... Nobody is going hold them to ransom, it's just the ruling and agreement is pretty simple, just not for you it seems. I think doc will be phased out if he re-signs with a French team, I can't see him retiring. I'm not sure why you've wrote all this at the end, it doesn't seem to link up with what you were previously saying...

If you're going to reply again, try not be so repetitive, it's kinda boring reading the same thing over and over.

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:"the bigger picture"

I am starting to feel that Castrogiovani's description of "Cockers" was anotmically accurate..!!!

Cockers is the biggest example of small man syndrome i think i have ever seen.

That's unfair on small men, most are not like Cockers

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Andy Howells select XV from the recent Derbies..

15 Liam Williams
14 Lucas Amorisino
13 Regan King
12 Scott Williams
11 Hallam Amos
10 Gareth Anscombe
9 Aled Davies
1 Rob Evans
2 Kirby Myhill
3 Sampson Lee
4 Jake Ball
5 Andrew Coombs
6 Aaron Shingler
7 John Barclay
8 Taulupe Faletau

Can he get any less credible?!

he's always trying...!

The problem is that he gets paid for 'trying'!

I'd love to see Elliot Dee get a call up. He's been great for us this season. The only question mark is over his throwing, but that hasn't stopped them picking Scott Baldwin.

On Gareth Anscombe, he's a talent but I think the Six Nations has come too soon for him. He hasn't settled yet at the Blues and if Priestland is going to be criticised for missing touch and throwing poor passes, and Hook criticised for running up blind alleys, it's only fair to point out that Anscombe does the same at times. Owen Williams is the better bet for me. I'd have more confidence in him in a Wales shirt as things stand.

Also, I've never rated him before, but Josh Navidi's having a fine season and deserves a call up, even if he's not going to start a game. With Baker out we're struggling for cover at number eight and Navidi always seems to make ground. He's not a natural eight, but needs must.

As others have said, we really can't ignore Liam Williams. He just has to start, and at full back. He's so much more of a threat than Halfpenny that it should be a no-brainer. The only thing Halfpenny has over Williams is his goalkicking, but with Biggar at ten that's no trump card at all. If Halfpenny really is that vital, stick him on the wing.

LP.

Agree with all that and Navidi has really impressed me this season.

Navidi also covers the entire backrow, so hes a good utility sub

IronMike wrote:Navidi also covers the entire backrow, so hes a good utility sub

The problem being and only my opinion is that you would need 2nd row cover on the bench as well so for me you couldn't have Navidi and Tipuric.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

IronMike wrote:Navidi also covers the entire backrow, so hes a good utility sub

The problem being and only my opinion is that you would need 2nd row cover on the bench as well so for me you couldn't have Navidi and Tipuric.  

I agree. That said Tipuric has not been his usual self of late. Maybe Nalvidi and Coombs would be good cover?

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

IronMike wrote:Navidi also covers the entire backrow, so hes a good utility sub

The problem being and only my opinion is that you would need 2nd row cover on the bench as well so for me you couldn't have Navidi and Tipuric.  

I agree. That said Tipuric has not been his usual self of late. Maybe Nalvidi and Coombs would be good cover?

That would cover all back and 2nd row positions and I think Coombs had the better of king today who seems to be the other one in the mix.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

IronMike wrote:Navidi also covers the entire backrow, so hes a good utility sub

The problem being and only my opinion is that you would need 2nd row cover on the bench as well so for me you couldn't have Navidi and Tipuric.  

I agree. That said Tipuric has not been his usual self of late. Maybe Nalvidi and Coombs would be good cover?

That would cover all back and 2nd row positions and I think Coombs had the better of king today who seems to be the other one in the mix.

I haven't seen a huge amount of Coombs this season but what I have has impressed me. Nalvidi has had a great season at eight. Very impressed.

We are in need of cover at eight due to Bakers continued absence and Nalvidi might be the man. Not sure Baker is going to find getting his shirt back too easy at the Ospreys either, Ardon has played well.

if Gtaland leaves hook out of the squad which i think he will, it means we need more back subs on the bench and for that reason i think Coombs is a good choice to cover 4-8.

Gwlad wrote:if Gtaland leaves hook out of the squad which i think he will, it means we need more back subs on the bench and for that reason i think Coombs is a good choice to cover 4-8.

Not necessarily, looking at the options Priestland, Anscombe and Owen Williams have all covered centre and fullback in there careers.

Hook played very well in Gloucesters win this weekend. So he's not out the picture at all.

Doubt many coaches will go without 5 forwards on the bench these days.

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:if Gtaland leaves hook out of the squad which i think he will, it means we need more back subs on the bench and for that reason i think Coombs is a good choice to cover 4-8.

Not necessarily, looking at the options Priestland, Anscombe and Owen Williams have all covered centre and fullback in there careers.

Hook played very well in Gloucesters win this weekend. So he's not out the picture at all.

I was under the impression Hook didn't play "very well". Are you basing that on his kick?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Doubt many coaches will go without 5 forwards on the bench these days.

Nearly every team has five forwards and three backs on their bench.

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:if Gtaland leaves hook out of the squad which i think he will, it means we need more back subs on the bench and for that reason i think Coombs is a good choice to cover 4-8.

Not necessarily, looking at the options Priestland, Anscombe and Owen Williams have all covered centre and fullback in there careers.

Hook played very well in Gloucesters win this weekend. So he's not out the picture at all.

I was under the impression Hook didn't play "very well". Are you basing that on his kick?

Hook played well Twelvetrees was awful.

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:if Gtaland leaves hook out of the squad which i think he will, it means we need more back subs on the bench and for that reason i think Coombs is a good choice to cover 4-8.

Not necessarily, looking at the options Priestland, Anscombe and Owen Williams have all covered centre and fullback in there careers.

Hook played very well in Gloucesters win this weekend. So he's not out the picture at all.

Do you think Priestland will get picked maesteg? I think he won't and that Gats want to see hi sother options using the 6 Nations as a dress rehearsal for RWC. Reckon he will pick Anscombe and Williams. Then if either slot well into the back up role and perform he has Preistland there as a more experienced back up if Biggar gets injured. As for Hook it makes no sense to me that he gets picked now because as you say Anscombe and Williams can cover full back and with LW and SW also on the we bench have the entire back line covered.

I wonder if Philipps will get picked as well, for me Webb has to be the way forward and also time for Davies to get his shot. And Half is potentially a victim of this season's campaign as with Biggar able to handle kicking LW is much more potent as an attacking 15. The it becomes a battle between Half and Cuthbert for the wing IMO. The great thing is though, that with a small cadre of backs we have real strength in depth from 9-15.

I would like to see this back line

Webb
Biggar
North
Roberts
JD2
L Williams
Half

bench
Davies/Philipps
Scott W
Anscombe/Owen W

Whoever becomes apparent as back up to Biggar really needs to get some game time in against Scotland and Italy.

I don't know what Gatland will do but I think you have a very good point on dropping Priestland to have a look at Anscoombe and Williams.

I don't think Gareth Davies is fully up to speed yet so not sure he will make the cut. Needs more games so might just get time.

Have not seen anything good from Phillips recently in the top 14 so I would cast him aside

Going to stick my neck on the line here and just say that Tavis Knoyle has been playing well for the Blues, especially his partnership with Anscombe. In fact both him and Lloyd Williams are playing well.

maestegmafia wrote:I don't know what Gatland will do but I think you have a very good point on dropping Priestland to have a look at Anscoombe and Williams.

I don't think Gareth Davies is fully up to speed yet so not sure he will make the cut. Needs more games so might just get time.

Have not seen anything good from Phillips recently in the top 14 so I would cast him aside

You think Knoyle over Davies then? No point picking Philipps as we know what he can do.

Gats has said this 6 Nations is not significant as a competition other than as RWC prep so i do expect to see him be more experimental….time to drop some sacred cows and look at other options

Maybe, we are but speculating. I think Knoyle has played some good rugby, as had Williams.

I think we all want to see whether gareth Davies can back to top form as he and Webb are the two most exciting prospects.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

IronMike wrote:Navidi also covers the entire backrow, so hes a good utility sub

The problem being and only my opinion is that you would need 2nd row cover on the bench as well so for me you couldn't have Navidi and Tipuric.  

I agree. That said Tipuric has not been his usual self of late. Maybe Nalvidi and Coombs would be good cover?

That would cover all back and 2nd row positions and I think Coombs had the better of king today who seems to be the other one in the mix.

It has been mentioned on here before how we are biased in favour of our own player, when comparing 2 players, and there is nothing wrong in that, so therefore after watching the game back today, I felt King overshadowed Coombs yesterday, the only times that I noticed Coombs was when he was getting smashed back behind the gain line and this happened on a few occasions. The significant fact of this debate is that people are trying to fit players in to do a number of jobs when there is no reason to do so, you normally have 5 forwards on your bench, 3 front rowers, a 2nd row and a back row, why would you pick EITHER Coombs or King, when NEITHER are anywhere near the best in their positions, if as seems likely AWJ and Ball are the selected 2nd rows, Charteris, Davies and possibly Evans, even Lou Reed are better than those 2, and in the back row if the selected threesome is Lydiate, Warburton and Faletau (more on him later) you have Tipuric, Navidi even Turnbull who are better, and also Baker if he was fit, and to come back to Faletau, he had better start to improve significantly or his position is in danger, he has played against us twice this season and been totally outshone by both Baker and Tyler Ardron yesterday. I said last week I was looking forward to the Back Row battle between Lydiate, Tipuric and Ardron against Evans, Cudd and Faletau, there was no battle just a walkover.

Alex Bywaters XV of best players from this weekend

15: Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues)

Playing at fly-half for the Blues but comes in at full-back in our side due to the form of Dan Biggar. Anscombe is beginning to grow into his role at the Blues and despite having very little ball against Leinster, still prompted and probed his side around the field. Deadly kicker from the tee too.

14: Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues)

Not many wingers had the chance to impress this weekend, with the returning Eli Walker barely touching the ball for the Ospreys. We’ve plumped for Cuthbert who while not outstanding, looked refreshed from his recent break to New York.

The giant winger skinned Irish international Dave Kearney on one occasion and it took a superb last-ditch tackle from the other Kearney – Dave’s brother Rob – to stop him crossing for a try on his Arms Park return.

13: Ashley Beck (Ospreys)

Beck won’t remember his 100th appearance for the Ospreys for long, the home side’s win over the Dragons a rubbish spectacle for all involved. Beck did set up a try for Tyler Ardron though with a nice miss pass at the right time.

Too many players miss out fellow attackers when it’s simpler to put the ball through the hands. Beck timed his moment right.

12: Jack Dixon (Dragons)

You’d be forgiven for not remembering much about Dixon’s performance at the Liberty but the young centre is one of the most reliable defensive midfield operators about. Tackled his heart out again though his side showed little creativity in attack.

11: Liam Williams (Scarlets)

Another slightly out of position here as he’s on top of his game at full-back but I’d love to see him in the Wales side against England on February 6. Scored a superb individual try in Glasgow and is clearly full of confidence.

He timed his run on to Aled Davies’ pass beautifully and his coaches at regional and international level will be hoping his shoulder problem which forced him from the field isn’t too serious.

10: Dan Biggar (Ospreys)

What can you say about this man? Barely misses from the tee, growing in attack and resolute in defence. Give him that Wales shirt for the Six Nations now.

9: Rhys Webb (Ospreys)

It’s been the Biggar and Webb story all season and to be honest, not much has changed. It was a surprise to see Webb spill the ball with a trademark snipe to the line against the Dragons, an indication of how prolific he’s been this season.

1: Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues)

Produced a huge performance for the Blues against Leinster with a phenomenal display in the loose. The Wales prop can look disinterested at times but he always turns up for the big games and when fully motivated, still remains a force to be reckoned with. Gatland will be hoping his fitness holds up over the next month or so.

2: Elliot Dee (Dragons)

Part of a catastrophic scrum at the Liberty as both front-rows ruined any chance of the spectators enjoying the encounter. Looking past that, Dee can’t be blamed individually for the set-piece mess and remains a promising young hooker.

With Ken Owens and Emyr Phillips out injured, what price a Six Nations call-up for the Bedwas product?

3: Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys)

With the Ospreys being penalised repeatedly at scrum time and Dmitri Arhip getting most of the blame, Jarvis was sent on before half-time to right the wrongs for Steve Tandy’s men. Did just that to help his side on their way to victory and seemingly set for a place in the Wales squad too.

4: Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys)

Tireless operator who continues to give everything for his region. Was his usual nuisance around the pitch though his facial expression at one point in the second half seemed to sum up the thoughts of most of those watching.

5: Jake Ball (Scarlets)

Fresh from his new dual contract, Ball is in fine form and continues to provide his usual ballast to the Scarlets scrum. Set to partner Jones in the Six Nations opener and played the full 80 in Glasgow.

6: Dan Lydiate (Ospreys)

Beginning to find his feet at the Liberty and earned praise from Steve Tandy post match. Can always be relied upon for his work rate, tackling and more but what was pleasing was to see him cut a nice line off a Biggar pass for a clean break. More of that please.

7: Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues)

Has to be the in-form Welsh back-rower around. Always seems to break the first tackle, carries hard and was at it again against Leinster. His only problem seems to be Wales’ embarrassment of riches in his position but could he end up as No.8 back-up to Taulupe Faletau?

8: Tyler Ardron (Ospreys)

Would have been nice to have picked a Welshman here to complete the set but simply put, there wasn’t one! Ardron scored the only try for the Ospreys and was a powerful figure around the park.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

IronMike wrote:Navidi also covers the entire backrow, so hes a good utility sub

The problem being and only my opinion is that you would need 2nd row cover on the bench as well so for me you couldn't have Navidi and Tipuric.  

I agree. That said Tipuric has not been his usual self of late. Maybe Nalvidi and Coombs would be good cover?

That would cover all back and 2nd row positions and I think Coombs had the better of king today who seems to be the other one in the mix.

It has been mentioned on here before how we are biased in favour of our own player, when comparing 2 players, and there is nothing wrong in that, so therefore after watching the game back today, I felt King overshadowed Coombs yesterday, the only times that I noticed Coombs was when he was getting smashed back behind the gain line and this happened on a few occasions. The significant fact of this debate is that people are trying to fit players in to do a number of jobs when there is no reason to do so, you normally have 5 forwards on your bench, 3 front rowers, a 2nd row and a back row, why would you pick EITHER Coombs or King, when NEITHER are anywhere near the best in their positions, if as seems likely AWJ and Ball are the selected 2nd rows, Charteris, Davies and possibly Evans, even Lou Reed are better than those 2, and in the back row if the selected threesome is Lydiate, Warburton and Faletau (more on him later) you have Tipuric, Navidi even Turnbull who are better, and also Baker if he was fit, and to come back to Faletau, he had better start to improve significantly or his position is in danger, he has played against us twice this season and been totally outshone by both Baker and Tyler Ardron yesterday. I said last week I was looking forward to the Back Row battle between Lydiate, Tipuric and Ardron against Evans, Cudd and Faletau, there was no battle just a walkover.    

I seriously disagree with you regarding Faletau, I think he is in superb form, head and shoulders above the rest. Next in line is Nalvidi.

maestegmafia wrote:

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

IronMike wrote:Navidi also covers the entire backrow, so hes a good utility sub

The problem being and only my opinion is that you would need 2nd row cover on the bench as well so for me you couldn't have Navidi and Tipuric.  

I agree. That said Tipuric has not been his usual self of late. Maybe Nalvidi and Coombs would be good cover?

That would cover all back and 2nd row positions and I think Coombs had the better of king today who seems to be the other one in the mix.

It has been mentioned on here before how we are biased in favour of our own player, when comparing 2 players, and there is nothing wrong in that, so therefore after watching the game back today, I felt King overshadowed Coombs yesterday, the only times that I noticed Coombs was when he was getting smashed back behind the gain line and this happened on a few occasions. The significant fact of this debate is that people are trying to fit players in to do a number of jobs when there is no reason to do so, you normally have 5 forwards on your bench, 3 front rowers, a 2nd row and a back row, why would you pick EITHER Coombs or King, when NEITHER are anywhere near the best in their positions, if as seems likely AWJ and Ball are the selected 2nd rows, Charteris, Davies and possibly Evans, even Lou Reed are better than those 2, and in the back row if the selected threesome is Lydiate, Warburton and Faletau (more on him later) you have Tipuric, Navidi even Turnbull who are better, and also Baker if he was fit, and to come back to Faletau, he had better start to improve significantly or his position is in danger, he has played against us twice this season and been totally outshone by both Baker and Tyler Ardron yesterday. I said last week I was looking forward to the Back Row battle between Lydiate, Tipuric and Ardron against Evans, Cudd and Faletau, there was no battle just a walkover.    

I seriously disagree with you regarding Faletau, I think he is in superb form, head and shoulders above the rest. Next in line is Nalvidi.

Do you actually watch any of these games, he was totally outplayed on both occasions,
and the players name is NAVIDI.

I do watch the games and I dissagree with your opinion.

Why don't you discuss why you think he is a poor player rather than attacking me for disagreeing with you?

maestegmafia wrote:I do watch the games and I dissagree with your opinion.

Why don't you discuss why you think he is a poor player rather than attacking me for disagreeing with you?

Well, why don't you tell me what he did better than Ardron in yesterdays match,
Did he make more yards in contact NO
Did he make more tackles NO
Did he take more lineouts NO
Did he score any any points NO Ardron did
Who was MOTM Ardron
And practically all of those applied to Baker against him in the Autumn, and as for your point that Navidi is next in line at the moment, in the Autumn before his injury most pundits and many on numerous forums had Baker as the heir apparent, even though Josh is playing excellently and wouldn't let us down in any way

I agree that there is always some Regional bias as you say Wayne when comparing players.

I also agree that Faletau has some serious competition from Navidi and have said it for some time, I have also said its what he needs.  With regards earlier posts about the make up of the bench what would your bench cover be, you have criticised other choices but not put forward on of your own.

For me at the moment I would have Navidi there as complete backrow cover which would allow you then to have a specialist 2nd row either Charteris or Davies.

If you went with Tipuric then I think you would have to go with someone like Coombs or King who can provide 2nd row and backrow cover, though I know in the past there has been talk of B Davies covering 6 but not sure on that myself.

When is Baker back from injury?

Beds

Lydiate, Faletau and Warburton can all play in the other back row positions too so we are not forcing ourselves here. In my opinion it's an option to look at.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I agree that there is always some Regional bias as you say Wayne when comparing players.

I also agree that Faletau has some serious competition from Navidi and have said it for some time, I have also said its what he needs.  With regards earlier posts about the make up of the bench what would your bench cover be, you have criticised other choices but not put forward on of your own.

For me at the moment I would have Navidi there as complete backrow cover which would allow you then to have a specialist 2nd row either Charteris or Davies.

If you went with Tipuric then I think you would have to go with someone like Coombs or King who can provide 2nd row and backrow cover, though I know in the past there has been talk of B Davies covering 6 but not sure on that myself.

When is Baker back from injury?

Bedford, if the normal Gatland back row is selected, then yes it would be a very tough call to leave Navidi out, Tipuric has a different skill set to any of the others, did you see his kick out against IIRC Scarlets behind our line and made with the angle about 50 metres, there are not many backs in Wales that would have done that, but as Maes said, the other 3 can interchange, the only one who hasn't got extensive experience of playing any other position is Lydiate, and I've seen Tips play at blind side for us, it would be a very tough call and obviously because of my natural bias, I would select Tipuric, as for the 2nd row why would you argue about possibly the 5th, 6th or 7th best players, when you have the 3rd and 4th best available, Charteris and Davies, just because they can play to a certain level at 2 positions, for me, to answer your question
I would have Charteris and Tipuric, but wouldn't be unduly worried if it was Davies and Navidi, I definately wouldn't have either King or Coombs anywhere near the team 23 if all those others are available.

Lydiate is more than capable of playing 7 and has played there for Wales once and won MoM that day, I just think if you pick Charteris or Davies either would be fine by me then Navidi would be there better option as he covers all across the backrow.

I agree also that if all four 2nd rowers are fit then King nor Coombs gets near the squad but Gatland always springs a surprise somewhere along the line like he did against the Boks where he picked King over Tipuric.

I think we all know the majority of his squad but there's always that little curve ball selection.

George North needs a big weekend in the CC, he is being closely scrutinised by Gatland this weekend:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-set-monitor-george-8433714

It looks as though they have big concerns over his defensive work. If he does not show a vast improvement he could be left out.

LordDowlais wrote:George North needs a big weekend in the CC, he is being closely scrutinised by Gatland this weekend:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-set-monitor-george-8433714

It looks as though they have big concerns over his defensive work. If he does not show a vast improvement he could be left out.

Lord, we (Os) don't want him to have too good a game this weekend, he has put us to the sword the last couple of times they've played us, it is only with Wales he has had problems, now I wonder who coaches him at that level ?

wayne wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:George North needs a big weekend in the CC, he is being closely scrutinised by Gatland this weekend:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-set-monitor-george-8433714

It looks as though they have big concerns over his defensive work. If he does not show a vast improvement he could be left out.

Lord, we (Os) don't want him to have too good a game this weekend, he has put us to the sword the last couple of times they've played us, it is only with Wales he has had problems, now I wonder who coaches him at that level ?

You blame the Wales coaches for George Norths defensive issues that the coaches are criticising him for...??

maestegmafia wrote:

wayne wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:George North needs a big weekend in the CC, he is being closely scrutinised by Gatland this weekend:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-set-monitor-george-8433714

It looks as though they have big concerns over his defensive work. If he does not show a vast improvement he could be left out.

Lord, we (Os) don't want him to have too good a game this weekend, he has put us to the sword the last couple of times they've played us, it is only with Wales he has had problems, now I wonder who coaches him at that level ?

You blame the Wales coaches for George Norths defensive issues that the coaches are criticising him for...??

Well, the Northampton coaches aren't

Who else should he blame? Both likely starting wingers have defensive issues that Edwards should be working with.

Why do you think Edwards hasn't???

Both wingers have the same issues at club level.

Why is it the Welsh coaches fault...??

The players are both being criticised by the welsh coaches, which, common sense would say, that they do not believe that Cuthbert or North are doing what they are being coached by the Wales Coaches

[quote="maestegmafia"]Why do you think Edwards hasn't???

Both wingers have the same issues at club level.

Why is it the Welsh coaches fault...??


Maes, this story was in the Fail IIRC a few weeks ago why would they want to regurgitate it, why would they have to watch him at club level, where he has had no criticism, when the defensive issues ONLY arise with Team Wales.