Looking at the Welsh Squad for this years Six Nations

First topic message reminder :

the Wales team to face England


1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Lee
4. Jones
5. Ball
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Webb
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. JD2
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Baldwin
17. James
18. Jarvis
19. Charteris
20. Tipuric
21. Phillips
22. Preistland
23. Williams


WALES 2015 SIX NATIONS SQUAD:


Forwards:
Looseheads
Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Paul James (Bath), Rob Evans (Scarlets)

Tightheads
Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues)

Hookers
Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)

Locks
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro)

Blindsides
Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), James King (Ospreys)

Opensides
Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)

Number 8
Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)


Backs:

Scrumhalves
Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets),

Fly halves
Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues)

Centres
Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Wings
Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints),

Fullbacks
Liam Williams (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)

bedfordwelsh wrote:Priestland has had a good run of games of late and seems to be getting some confidence back, still not see what Anscombe has done to be in there as yet.

Will OWens be fit, would have Dee in there and King has never impressed me other than that pretty much as expected.

Normal service has resumed…i think bedford, it's more to do with what Anscombe hasn't done, he hasn't done what Preistland has done and I don't think he will either.

Walesonline.com wrote: Scott Baldwin

The Ospreys man had a patchy autumn when called up but is likely to be given the chance to further underline his Test credentials.

Given that his performances in the autumn were indeed patchy, why is he entitled to another chance, when Elliot Dee has been playing so well?

Walesonline.com wrote: Luke Charteris

More of a back-up role these days for the Racing Metro man but has the class and experience that underlines the strength in depth Wales have in this position right now.

Bradley Davies

The Wasps man is in the same bracket as Charteris but is a real unit and takes no prisoners. All the experience in the world too.

Given that neither of these two are genuine contenders for the first XV, their places in the squad shouldn't be guaranteed either. Andrew Coombs has been a nuisance (in a good way) since coming back for the Dragons, and can cover back row too.

Walesonline.com wrote: James King

Was on the bench for Wales' win against South Africa last November and has performed well in a successful Ospreys side thus far.

I just don't see it. I never notice him when he plays for the Ospreys, and not in a good, doing the dirty work Richard Hill kind of way. If Navidi's getting a call-up based on form, then James Thomas should definitely get in the squad ahead of King. His work rate is ridiculous.

Agree on King just can't see what others do as for Navidi he has been on great form and with Baker unfortunately out injured there is a gap for a back up No8.

That wasn't meant to be a dig at Navidi, I'm saying he deserves a call up based on form, and if form is what we're going on, James Thomas has done more than King.

Whats the odd on a Phillips Priestland pairing for England game then

bedfordwelsh wrote:Whats the odd on a Phillips Priestland pairing for England game then

Unless there are injuries, very very unlikely.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That wasn't meant to be a dig at Navidi, I'm saying he deserves a call up based on form, and if form is what we're going on, James Thomas has done more than King.

Harsh on King in my opinion but I don't think he has stood out as a player of the calibre we expect these days, despite that he is a good blindside for the ospreys, very athletic works well with Tips when we have the big fella at eight.

I definitely agree that James Thomas deserves recognition, he and Cudd have been very impressive this season, add to that James Davies at Scarlets who is doing very good work also.

As I alluded to last night there are certain players continuing to play their way into contention. For me, 3 starters who pushed their case further forward last night were Rob Evans, Jake Ball and Scott Williams.

bf I know you disagree, but Jenkins and James are both knackered. For me Jenkins (like Adam Jones) is a good bench option, James is 3rd choice. I think James will be bordering on 2nd/3rd choice when he goes to the Ospreys.

Evans, Hibbard, Lee, Ball, AWJ, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau, Webb, Biggar, Williams, Roberts - positions sewn up IMO.

I agree with Saint

Regarding loosehead I would put james behind gethin and Rob Evans, he is not going well at Bath, I would say, most Bath fans would agree that the you English prop Nick Auterac is probably first choice there, James second.

The Saint wrote:As I alluded to last night there are certain players continuing to play their way into contention. For me, 3 starters who pushed their case further forward last night were Rob Evans, Jake Ball and Scott Williams.

bf I know you disagree, but Jenkins and James are both knackered. For me Jenkins (like Adam Jones) is a good bench option, James is 3rd choice. I think James will be bordering on 2nd/3rd choice when he goes to the Ospreys.

Evans, Hibbard, Lee, Ball, AWJ, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau, Webb, Biggar, Williams, Roberts - positions sewn up IMO.

Saint,

I don't dis-agree just can't see it happening just the same as I can't see him dropping JD. I said the other week that the Scarlets front row of Evans Phillips and Lee was one for the future and Sc and Liam Williams have been the form backs in Wales and I would love both to start (Williams at XV) but I just can't see him going far outside his favourites. I think Li Williams will start but not at XV and I just hope I am wrong on the others.

maestegmafia wrote:I agree with Saint

Regarding loosehead I would put james behind gethin and Rob Evans, he is not going well at Bath, I would say, most Bath fans would agree that the you English prop Nick Auterac is probably first choice there, James second.

Whether the fans think it or not the coaches don't as James has started most important games and has been captain in a fair few as well. Jenkins has proved me wrong this season I admit but he needs to hit the ground running (as do all of the team) come 6th Feb. Wales as a team and Jenkins of late have been slow starters and need a few games to get momentum but for me we can't afford to do that.

No I agree we can't afford that at all.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Whats the odd on a Phillips Priestland pairing for England game then

Don't even joke about that! Three weeks to go, still time for plenty to happen injury-wise.

Maybe too early to give Tyler Morgan a run? He's 19 and Dragons' website lists him as having started eight games this season, scoring nothing.

An interesting question is where Halfpenny will figure, given the impressive form of Liam Williams and Dan Evans. My guess is he'll be in the starting side for his goal-kicking execution, though at the expense of who? One of the latter mentioned or Cuthbert/North on the wing?
I can't comment on Halfpenny's club form as I haven't been keeping up with Toulon's recent results.

He's been good at Toulon, scored a run in last week vs Racing, roberts also got a try in that game.

He is kicking his goals.

The regular complaint about Halfpenny is his inability to counterattack despite having great pace. Something Liam Williams seems to relish and be very accomplished at.

It's harsh to criticise Halfpenny who is a work class marksman with the boot, can score tries, can counter attack and has an imovably committed defence.

But Williams is in such great form...!

I do also believe that Halfpenny should shift over to accommodate Williams at full back, but it will be other way around. As I've been saying since before the autumn series Cuth and North should be demoted and perhaps one of Amos, Prydie, Walker get promoted. I think Amos is leading those three. So in my mind back 3 is now sewn up too, that just leaves the bench.

Amos had a good day today, looked sharp.

Amos is upping his claim the more the season goes on.

The Halfpenny fullback-wing debate is a real headache area. I don't think anyone is willing to sacrifice Halfpenny's capacity to keep the score ticking. The main appeal people find in Williams is that he's consistently on the lookout for a chance to counter attack. And North/Cuthbert both have better strike rates ball-in-hand than Halfpenny. Whatever combo is picked, we lose something and gain something different.

I'm going to be bold and say that Halfpenny on the wing would be a waste of a wing slot. The wingers function as two of the most potent attacking threats teams have and Halfpenny's offence/counterattack simply does not live up to this label. I know he started as a winger but his approach now is totally different from when he was a u20.

You are right it is a headache that I think we fans are possibly grateful we are not responsible for.

Let's just see how Williams fitness goes.

Halfpenny and Williams are both good options, committed campaigners that won't let us down.

Whoever takes the fifteen shirt will be justified and vilified.

Interesting comparing this thread and our collective mentality to that of the oppositions fans.

The Welsh posters lose interest in players that are rarely seen week in week out, Halfpenny and JD2, where as the English relish the impact that a player like Tuilagi or Steffan Armitage could have on their prospects.

Out of sight out of mind or absence making the heart grow fonder?

I'd be interested to see Biggar's club kick % this season (and last season for that matter). I've always rated him as a decent penalty/conversion taker. Is he so much worse than Halfpenny at kicking? I'm not convinced. It's probably something like a 80% vs a 70% rate. Therefore, I'm not sure Halfpenny is so indispensable. I know someone will point out that a 10% differnce in kick rate could be the difference between winning and losing, but if it means getting our most potent wingers AND attacking fullback on the field at the same time then we could end up scoring more tries anyway. I've never seen a player go to ground in attack as easily as halfpenny, apart from maybe Adam Jones, so it would be refreshing to see an attacking line of North, Cutbert and Williams who all seem to be able to either cut the line AND ride the tackle with a few opponents hanging off them if need be. Not sure how Liam Williams does it with his smallish frame, but he always seems to make yards and hard to put down!

Would losing Halfpenny be a benefit to Wales?

Only a year ago he was lions player of the series, player of the six nations too...! That was certainly not just for his goal kicking.

maestegmafia wrote:Would losing Halfpenny be a benefit to Wales?

Only a year ago he was lions player of the series, player of the six nations too...! That was certainly not just for his goal kicking.

I know, it still amazes me that people question Halfpenny's value

He is one of the best defensive fullbacks in the world, a first rate goal kicker and does have an attacking game (which is a bit stifled by Wales' style of play)

Watch him play from Toulon today, he was popping up everywhere and linking the backline or cleaning up sloppy ball. Plus he made 9/10 kicks, most of which were pretty difficult and the one he missed hit the post.

maestegmafia wrote:

The Welsh posters lose interest in players that are rarely seen week in week out, Halfpenny and JD2, where as the English relish the impact that a player like Tuilagi or Steffan Armitage could have on their prospects.

Out of sight out of mind or absence making the heart grow fonder?

Nothing to do with that. JD2 just isn't playing well enough to be considered, he can't make the Clermont team and I reckon Scott Williams is playing better. Hibbard, Halfpenny and Roberts play outside of Wales and all should start with Charteris, who also plays outside on the bench.

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

The Welsh posters lose interest in players that are rarely seen week in week out, Halfpenny and JD2, where as the English relish the impact that a player like Tuilagi or Steffan Armitage could have on their prospects.

Out of sight out of mind or absence making the heart grow fonder?

Nothing to do with that. JD2 just isn't playing well enough to be considered, he can't make the Clermont team and I reckon Scott Williams is playing better. Hibbard, Halfpenny and Roberts play outside of Wales and all should start with Charteris, who also plays outside on the bench.

Yeah for me it's got nothing to do with where they play, Sc Williams is just in way better form than JD at the moment who isn't starting that regularly.  Halfpenny will start and rightly so but for me it should be on the wing with Li Williams at XV and after yesterdays game I would be more than happy to see Amos start on the other wing giving us a back 3 of Halfpenny Williams and Amos.

I think both North and Cuthbert need a rocket up their backside and maybe this could be just the ticket, that said if North runs riot like this afternoon like in the first game then I think we will see him starting against England.

As it stands and if all injuries clear up ok then my starting team against England would be:

James
Hibbard
Lee
AWJ
Ball
Lydiate
Faletau
Warburton

Webb
Biggar

Halfpenny
Roberts
Sc Williams
Amos

Li Williams

Jenkins, Baldwin/Dee, A Jones, Charteris, Navidi, Rh Williams, Priestland, North.

I know the main dis-agreements there will be James over Jenkins but I still think James is the stronger scrummager and Jenkins takes a few games to get back into his stride nowadays and Priestland over Anscombe. Well I have said all along I wouldn't have picked Anscombe as I have not seen anything special from him to warrant his inclusion and Priestland has had some good games of late and getting his confidence back. As for the hooker role then I doubt if Owens will be fit or even if he is he won't get any game time in so its down to who else is selected, if Dee gets selected I would have him in.

Whether Anscombe/Priestland/Williams, or Jenkins/James/Evans are the ones picked for the match I don't mind so much.

I differ in opinion to you Beds as we know and have discussed before.

I worry a bit about our scrum and line out vs them. I think for the first time, in about eight years, they might be stronger than us at the scrum, they always seem better at the line out. Look at Leicester line out to maul and the damage it does. It's the trend in the English league, they all want to do it. I think we can expect them to kick to corners and pressure our line out.

I worry a bit that when we select both Samson and James we lose a lot of intelligence and experience that we used to have in Adam and Gethin, less so in the set piece, more in open play.

Not that the opposition are all PHd scholars in their forwards, (far from it in Hartley), but players like Gethin, who's quick turnover and pass led to Cuthberts try last time, we need. We don't get that from James or Lee. They don't see a big picture, they scrummage and carry ball. We need more.

Not so worried about our scrum but our lineout always worries me no matter who we select or who we play against. I can see you point about the props and maybe a Jenkins Lee or James Jones combo would give bit of both elements.

I hope Evans gets some game time as I doubt if either Jenkins and/or Jones will be involved much after the WC so we need to start bringing players like Evans through now.

Gethin Jenkins should definitely start. He has been in awesome form for the Blues, and it seems people have already forgotten James struggling in the scrum in the Autumn and it only improving when Gethin came off the bench.

In any case, Gatland has already stated with Adam Jones that scrummaging is not all he is looking for with his props under the new laws.

I agree..! And good point regarding the mixing up of experience and form talent to give us a bit of nowse.

The line out is something we really need to focus on. I haven't felt since the days of Bob Norster that we could reliably win a defensive line out in the "red zone".

Wales need to focus hard on this because all the other teams in the six nations will target is there yet again. And we will be exploited.

We all discuss that we know Wales need to be be creative in the backline, we need to convert more of the try scoring opportunities that arise. We need to use our power pace, invention and awareness to pressure the opposition.

But more so we need a solid set piece and a solid defence of the opposition throw in or scrum.

If A Jones isn't included (mad if he's not) then with current injuries who else is there?

bedfordwelsh wrote:If A Jones isn't included (mad if he's not) then with current injuries who else is there?

Aaron Jarvis...?

He is a long way south of Adam and Sampson in the ability stakes...

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If A Jones isn't included (mad if he's not) then with current injuries who else is there?

Aaron Jarvis...?

He is a long way south of Adam and Sampson in the ability stakes...

Lets hope Jones gets picked then, I think Lee would benefit hugely from having him in the squad as well passing on knowledge experience etc etc

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If A Jones isn't included (mad if he's not) then with current injuries who else is there?

Aaron Jarvis...?

He is a long way south of Adam and Sampson in the ability stakes...

Lets hope Jones gets picked then, I think Lee would benefit hugely from having him in the squad as well passing on knowledge experience etc etc

Yes I remember in the second test with the lions when Mako Vunipola was getting a pasting that Adam and Hibs were doing a lot to coach and help him get it right...

James not looking to shabby today by the way

Good news isn't it..

And he's just been subbed for young Auterac. No injuries which is good.

Never doubted him Maes

bedfordwelsh wrote:Never doubted him Maes

I've been to the Rec a few times this season and he has not been at his best, not like his last season at the Ospreys.

Good to see him play well, captain well too and leave the field uninjured.

He's captained them quite a few times this year, will be a good battle between him and Nicky Smith next season at the Os

bedfordwelsh wrote:He's captained them quite a few times this year, will be a good battle between him and Nicky Smith next season at the Os

Only really while Hooper has been injured, but good to see him get the nod. He captained the Ospreys a number of times.

After todays game will Rys Webb still get picked at 9 for Wales? Personaly i think he had a terrible game today.

Is Mike Phillips still in favour for Wales?......If so so you think he will start at 9 against England?

majesticimperialman wrote:After todays game will Rys Webb still get picked at 9 for Wales?

Yes

majesticimperialman wrote:After todays game will Rys Webb still get picked at 9 for Wales?  Personaly i think he had a terrible game today.

Is Mike Phillips still in favour for Wales?......If so so you think he will start at 9 against England?

Webb will be behind a much stronger pack for one certainly one that will at least hold their own and not be totally over run like the Os were today. Phillips will be on the bench I am pretty sure about that.

Also, I don't think Webb was awful today - he just had to play on the backfoot with no clean ball.

wales606 wrote:Also, I don't think Webb was awful today - he just had to play on the backfoot with no clean ball.

A charged down clearance but as much clever play by tom wood as it was an error by Webb.

majesticimperialman wrote:After todays game will Rys Webb still get picked at 9 for Wales?  Personaly i think he had a terrible game today.

Is Mike Phillips still in favour for Wales?......If so so you think he will start at 9 against England?

yes he will get the nod and yes Philipps is still in favor, he now becomes a superb impact 9 with the physicality to exploit 2nd half holes round the breakdown.

Phillips had an incredible impact against the All Blacks for sure.

IronMike wrote:Phillips had an incredible impact against the All Blacks for sure.

Yeah, and so soon after the Fiji game. That was the final nail in the coffin for me. It's a shame Davies is injured. I'd probably still go with a 9 playing in Wales for 3rd choice though; say Rees or L.Williams - wouldn't be so bad rewarding their form.

The Saint wrote:

IronMike wrote:Phillips had an incredible impact against the All Blacks for sure.

Yeah, and so soon after the Fiji game. That was the final nail in the coffin for me. It's a shame Davies is injured. I'd probably still go with a 9 playing in Wales for 3rd choice though; say Rees or L.Williams - wouldn't be so bad rewarding their form.

Knoyle maybe?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Saint wrote:

IronMike wrote:Phillips had an incredible impact against the All Blacks for sure.

Yeah, and so soon after the Fiji game. That was the final nail in the coffin for me. It's a shame Davies is injured. I'd probably still go with a 9 playing in Wales for 3rd choice though; say Rees or L.Williams - wouldn't be so bad rewarding their form.

Knoyle maybe?

Knoyle hasn't played a huge amount, but has been pretty good recently

Lloyd Williams was returning to the sort of form that got him noticed to begin with, but then got injured and has only just come back into things.


I imagine Gatland will stick with his favourites and select Webb, Phillips and Rhodri Williams

Why select Rhodri Williams when he isn't starting for the Scarlets and Aled Davies is?

Never been that impressed with Rhodri Williams anyway

Please not Knoyle or Lloyd Williams, Knoyle is a very poor mans Phillips at best.

IronMike wrote:Why select Rhodri Williams when he isn't starting for the Scarlets and Aled Davies is?

Never been that impressed with Rhodri Williams anyway

Because Gatland has selected him when he hasn't been starting for the Scarlets for 2 years