Well what an improved European Rugby format that is

First topic message reminder :

Round 6...

only 1 team has qualified for the quarter finals

as BOD said this evening - "this is unique. to have 11 teams still with a shot of making the quarter finals and only 1 team already qualified come round 6"

not a single dead rubber group come round 6. what a massive improvement that is on previous HC formats.

my picks for qualifiers. In order (first 4 get home quarters)

clermont
wasps
toulon
saints
toulouse (win group but not home QF)
RCM92
Saracens
Bath

NB - as a quins fan i admit that our group with leinster and wasps is the tightest. but i fancy wasps to deny leinster a LBP and thus qualification.

looks like a fair reflection of the actual quality of respective club rugby. without loaded draws by virtue of too many walkover matches.

Sin é wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just a split across the 3 leagues. fairest way to ensure the improvement of the 2nd tier. It wouldn't be beneficial for me to just drop it.

Why would the PRO12 teams do that - they were forced into this new setup and are struggling financially as it is. Its the English & French clubs who insisted on messing around with the competition structure. When organised by the ERC, it had a sponsor, incentives and much better tv coverage.

It was also a much more mature product. Give this new comp some time.

The Qualifying Competition for next season's Challenge Cup:


"Qualifying EPCR : Calvisano and Mogliano win comfortably in Round 1

17/01/2015 - 31/12/2015
Italian clubs Cammi Rugby Calvisano and Rugby Mogliano defeated Rugby Viadana, the third Italian club in the EPCR playoffs, and the Portuguese Champions "Centro Desportivo Universitário de Lisboa” (CDUL) respectively in the first round of qualifying matches for the 2015/16 European Rugby Challenge Cup.
In the first match in Pool 1, Calvisano, one of the last year's losing semifinalists and a former Italian "Eccellenza" Champions, scored four tries to none, to defeat arch-rivals Viadana, the other 2013/14 " Eccellenza" semifinalist, 34-3 at the Peroni Stadium in Calvisano. The match was refereed by Romania's Vlad Iordachescu.
In pool 2, in a match refereed by RFU's Tom Foley, Italy "Eccellenza" Champions Rugby Mogliano scored seven tries to three to defeat their Portuguese guests Centro Desportivo Universitário de Lisboa” (CDUL) 45-17 at the "Maurizio Quaggia" Stadium in Mogliano.
The other two contenders, Russia's champions Enisei-STM, who are making their debut in an European club competition and Spain's El Salvador enter the fray next weekend in Round 2, when they take on Rugby Viadana and CDUL respectively on January 24.
The third round of matches in the round-robin pools will be played on April 4, with the winners taking on Femi-CZ Rovigo and Bucharest Wolves, home and away, for the two available starting berths in the 2015 Challenge Cup. The first round of play-off matches is scheduled for April 18 with the final round taking place on May 2, 2015. Rugby Rovigo and Bucharest Wolves had qualified for the current European Rugby Challenge Cup through a play-off series in September 2014.
Pool 1: Cammi Rugby Calvisano 34 (Steyn, Cavalieri tries, 2 pen tries; Seymour 4 cons, 2 pens) Rugby Viadana 3 (Gennari pen)

Pool 2: Rugby Mogliano 45 (Enrico Ceccato 2, Speradio 2, Filipucci, Cornelli, Lucchin tries; Endrizzi 4 cons, Barraud con) Universitario de Lisboa 17 (Tu, Murray, Lino try each; Canas con)"

http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/article-704.htm



3 Italians, 1 Spanish, 1 Portuguese and 1 Russian team playing for the right to challenge the 2 incumbents, Rovigo and Buceresti.

As far as I can tell, EPCR turned down the opportunity to finance this competition back in September (£500k was the figure thrown about), so this is a Rugby Europe competition financed by FIR.

Going to be some cracking games this weekend
castre - quins v v slim chance of quins qualifying if they get tbp and every other result goes in their favour!
wasps - leinster - cup final for both possibly
saints - RCM - great matchup, especially england players vs welsh starters as a teaser for 6N 6th feb
ulster - leics. could be a good match if both put out their strongest teams
bath - glasgow. mouth-watering. huge opportunity for each to go through especially if they get a tbp.
clermont - sarries. massive. clermont desperate for revenge (SF last year) Sarries desperate to qualify.

going to be an awesome weekend's rugby.

as you say geoff, SKY must be gutted they have such a poor lineup.

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just a split across the 3 leagues. fairest way to ensure the improvement of the 2nd tier. It wouldn't be beneficial for me to just drop it.

Why would the PRO12 teams do that - they were forced into this new setup and are struggling financially as it is. Its the English & French clubs who insisted on messing around with the competition structure. When organised by the ERC, it had a sponsor, incentives and much better tv coverage.

It was also a much more mature product. Give this new comp some time.

As a mature product what was the point in destroying it?

edit: it must be concerning that at this stage there is no one running this organisation and seemingly have difficulty in recruiting a Director General (they have been trying to do that since about the last 9 months). The problem surely is that Switzerland has no expertise in rugby and there would not be that many who have any expertise in running Leagues/Cup competitions. Most of that expertise would be in Ireland (as the HQ of world rugby and where the PRO12, Lions, 6Nations are all based).

quinsforever wrote:ulster - leics. could be a good match if both put out their strongest teams

It's not so much whether we put out our strongest team I'm worried about. It's whether we can put out a team at all!

One complaint to be made against the old and the new European competition is why cap the size of squad you can register? When you have a game like this and one team might have to play a scrum-half on the wing or otherwise improvise because they're struggling to find five fit outside backs to start the game, never mind replacements, it's just a shame.

I'd say its to stop teams like Toulon from totally taking the urine!

I'd imagine they will have to review the number of players you can include though due to the increasing number of injuries.

It's a fix. It gives the English and French teams an unfair advantage as they would be concentrating on league position anyways whereas the pro12 teams don't really care, therefore it's a bit of an inconvenience for us.

Sadly Ulster may well not be competitive.
A scrum half could start on the wing and two other scrum halves will be our only backs cover on the bench.

Leicester could be pushing at an open door

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:The Pro12 teams have been going backwards this year. Not necessarily because of the Euro debacle (though you could argue it had some bearing especially in Wales)

Treviso had a scare last season that they would pull out of the pro12. While it never came to anything many of their players legged it to England, leaving them in the sh1t.

Welsh teams had their long running feud with the WRU which has to have affected their performances.

Irish teams have had their union focusing on the national team (Understandable in a WC year) and so have not had any decent foreign players signed. (Also affected by inflated wages in France & Japan and increasingly England)

These things go in cycles. We had 5 quarter finalists in 2012 to England's 1. Probably lucky to have one this year. (2 still in with a shout)

Every team in the pro 12 is more geared up towards the national side cause of the world cup. Thats the difference between privately owned teams and Union founded teams. Even Treviso are now working with the FIR.

I for one am not that surprised at the urine poor results from pro 12 teams.

That is a good point Vince. Coming into the back-to-backs in December, most of the Pro12 teams will have just spent a month to 6 weeks away from their club involved in International training camps even if they are not involved in playing.

Sin é wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just a split across the 3 leagues. fairest way to ensure the improvement of the 2nd tier. It wouldn't be beneficial for me to just drop it.

Why would the PRO12 teams do that - they were forced into this new setup and are struggling financially as it is. Its the English & French clubs who insisted on messing around with the competition structure. When organised by the ERC, it had a sponsor, incentives and much better tv coverage.

Well the format had to change as it was balanced more to 1 league. If 1 of the leagues expects to get more benefits in terms of monet it s going to cause issues though which may stop any cash oncentives, P ersonally don t think a guranteed place at the top comp would make that much dufference to the teams not taking it seriously though.

Sin é wrote:

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just a split across the 3 leagues. fairest way to ensure the improvement of the 2nd tier. It wouldn't be beneficial for me to just drop it.

Why would the PRO12 teams do that - they were forced into this new setup and are struggling financially as it is. Its the English & French clubs who insisted on messing around with the competition structure. When organised by the ERC, it had a sponsor, incentives and much better tv coverage.

It was also a much more mature product. Give this new comp some time.

As a mature product what was the point in destroying it?

edit: it must be concerning that at this stage there is no one running this organisation and seemingly have difficulty in recruiting a Director General (they have been trying to do that since about the last 9 months). The problem surely is that Switzerland has no expertise in rugby and there would not be that many who have any expertise in running Leagues/Cup competitions.  Most of that expertise would be in Ireland (as the HQ of world rugby and where the PRO12, Lions, 6Nations are all based).

couple of observations

while the epcr is somewhat leaderless, as you say, the product kind of takes care of itself. the average quality of rugby and excitement of the format are imo at least as good as last year. i am sure they will get the management structure sorted out eventually. i dont think any rugby fans care about what goes on behind the scenes as long as what is on the screens is good. and the clubs and unions care about silverware and money, although not necessarily in that order.

switzerland does have quite a bit of sporting administration expertise i think you will find...FIFA, IOC, UCI, etc, etc. Not sure that them being pants at rugby has any bearing on the ability to establish Switzerland as the base for a multinational sporting entity.

Sin é wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just a split across the 3 leagues. fairest way to ensure the improvement of the 2nd tier. It wouldn't be beneficial for me to just drop it.

Why would the PRO12 teams do that - they were forced into this new setup and are struggling financially as it is. Its the English & French clubs who insisted on messing around with the competition structure. When organised by the ERC, it had a sponsor, incentives and much better tv coverage.

Neither Champions Cup nor Challenge Cup have individual sponsorship (both are lacking 4 of 5 intended sponsorship slots).
Neither Champions Cup nor Challenge Cup have individual TV deals.
All the income is shared out in the proportions negotiated (as was the case with ERC, however derived).

There was no incentive in the closing pool rounds of the Amlin to finish 2nd, there is in the Challenge Cup. Amlin finalists (or was it just the winners?) got one share of the prize money, same as losing HC quarter finalists. I haven't seen anything on the EPCR distribution of prize money, if any, for either Cups. I have seen little change in the attitudes of the English and French in team selection - some go full monty, some for heavy rotation, some vary - same as it ever was. There are however less "minnow" games, in which academy sides were often fielded.

TV coverage of Amlin games was sparse - there may or may not have been more than for the Challenge Cup, but I'm certain that it wasn't "much better".

The major criticism of EPCR appears to be that the winners no longer qualify for the senior Cup. McNaughton in the Irish Times (thanks Sin e) appears to infer that there is a route via the playoffs. RTE's published interview with Jackman stated that
"Jackman criticised the fact that the Challenge Cup did not offer any route to qualification for the Champions Cup, by contrast with its predecessor the Amlin Cup."
whereas, in the same article Jackman was quoted as
“And even if we do go and win it we wouldn’t be guaranteed a place in the Champions Cup for next year."

I've bolded the two significant and conflicting phrases.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/challenge-cup/2014/1031/656108-pointless-challenge-cup-unsustainable-jackman/

If this is the case, my major criticism of EPCR is that they failed to debunk RTE's article (which has been widely quoted subsequently), along with Jackman's opinion of the lack of interest in France, despite a couple of teams having their hitherto biggest crowds of the season in their opening home Challenge Cup fixtures.

The ERC have organised this year's competition.

The only sporting organisation in Switzerland who would have any expertise in organising a cup/league competition would be FIFA (who have loads of cash).

Anyway, if the recruitment of staff is so easy, how come it hasn't happened nearly a year later?

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:
“And even if we do go and win it we wouldn’t be guaranteed a place in the Champions Cup for next year."

I've bolded the two significant and conflicting phrases.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/challenge-cup/2014/1031/656108-pointless-challenge-cup-unsustainable-jackman/

If this is the case, my major criticism of EPCR is that they failed to debunk RTE's article (which has been widely quoted subsequently), along with Jackman's opinion of the lack of interest in France, despite a couple of teams having their hitherto biggest crowds of the season in their opening home Challenge Cup fixtures.

No point debunking it in RTE - its the French Press that need to sort that one out as Jackman coaches in the Top 14. One of the EPCR executives (formerly of Clermont) is based in Switzerland.

Hard to expect McNaughton (who is the PRO12 rep) to do everything.

they arent looking for a cure for cancer sin e.

its really a very very simple business and all the important decisions get made at board level, not by staff.

so they need to run the website, communicate with partners, liaise with and recruit sponsors, and divide up and distribute the money back to clubs along pre-agreed lines. they will use outside counsel for tax and legal.

as long as the matches take place we the punters wont really notice any difference.

quinsforever wrote:they arent looking for a cure for cancer sin e.

its really a very very simple business and all the important decisions get made at board level, not by staff.

so they need to run the website, communicate with partners, liaise with and recruit sponsors, and divide up and distribute the money back to clubs along pre-agreed lines. they will use outside counsel for tax and legal.

as long as the matches take place we the punters wont really notice any difference.

In normal circumstances that would be fine, but the management are unable to even agree on who the Independent Chair should be and have been unable to appoint a Director General.

The ERC did all of those things like running a website, organising fixtures, dealing with media, divided up the money etc., yet they were not good enough. The punters want some notice about when the matches are on and against whom (and I'd imagine Saracents wouldn't want a back-to-back with Clermont in December either so would want to argue that one.

It should also be noted that the mess the Top 14 organisers landed themselves in with regard to media rights, so maybe its not so easy after all.

edit: Dubbelyew - just looking at the Challenge Cup table, the Welsh & English teams are doing well, so maybe only the French clubs didn't know of this route.

Sin é wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:
“And even if we do go and win it we wouldn’t be guaranteed a place in the Champions Cup for next year."

I've bolded the two significant and conflicting phrases.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/challenge-cup/2014/1031/656108-pointless-challenge-cup-unsustainable-jackman/

If this is the case, my major criticism of EPCR is that they failed to debunk RTE's article (which has been widely quoted subsequently), along with Jackman's opinion of the lack of interest in France, despite a couple of teams having their hitherto biggest crowds of the season in their opening home Challenge Cup fixtures.

No point debunking it in RTE - its the French Press that need to sort that one out as Jackman coaches in the Top 14. One of the EPCR executives (formerly of Clermont) is based in Switzerland.

Hard to expect McNaughton (who is the PRO12 rep) to do everything.

It's RTE's statement "...the Challenge Cup did not offer any route to qualification..." which appears to contradict McNaughton, and appears to misinterpret Jackman. Their quote of Jackman "... not guaranteed..." is consistent with McNaughton if the Challenge winners still have to contest one or two playoff games. There is a route to qualification, but it's not automatic nor guaranteed.

They also used his "pointless" in the headline but inferred it as completely pointless. When in fact he said:

“The Challenge Cup is from my point of view a bit of a pointless competition in terms of your first-grade players,” Jackman said. “It’s a great opportunity to give guys game time.
“The second competition over here, the Espoirs, is under-23s only, and you can have one overage player. So we have guys, 27 or 28, who don’t get to play for us probably as regularly as you’d like.
“So for them it’s a case of giving them two weeks in a row to get 80 minutes under their belts and prove that they’re ready for a first-team place; [it’s also] to rehabilitate guys coming back from injury, and get game time into them; and also to have a look at some of our young French guys who in our academy.”

Which sounds like he thinks they get a lot out of the competition.

HammerofThunor wrote:They also used his "pointless" in the headline but inferred it as completely pointless. When in fact he said:

“The Challenge Cup is from my point of view a bit of a pointless competition in terms of your first-grade players,” Jackman said. “It’s a great opportunity to give guys game time.
“The second competition over here, the Espoirs, is under-23s only, and you can have one overage player.  So we have guys, 27 or 28, who don’t get to play for us probably as regularly as you’d like.
“So for them it’s a case of giving them two weeks in a row to get 80 minutes under their belts and prove that they’re ready for a first-team place; [it’s also] to rehabilitate guys coming back from injury, and get game time into them; and also to have a look at some of our young French guys who in our academy.”

Which sounds like he thinks they get a lot out of the competition.

Challenge Cup is a "Great Opportunity" - Jackman

may not be the headline that fits with the agenda, though.

Ah hear now Hammer, you guys never stopped complaining about the PRO12 because you claimed that the Irish Provinces just used it as a training ground to warm up for the Heineken Cup - and you don't even play in the PRO12 so it had nothing got to do with you.

Surely you are not claiming that its alright for the 2nd Competition in Europe to be used as a training ground for guys over 23 who are not first team players - a training ground for the Top 14?

The EPRC obviously chose Switzerland because they envy the way Mr Blatter runs his competition from there. Obviously it couldn't have been the no questions asked banking and the totally 'not driven by money' model Fifa present - so it must be the sonorous yodeling and the holier than Emmental sporting morals that attracted them?

Actually, Mr Blatter might be out of a job soon. Perhaps the EPRC Board are waiting for him to become available to run their affairs. He would find some interesting places to hold the finals!

Com'on EPRC, you know its what the fans want

Sin é wrote:Ah hear now Hammer, you guys never stopped complaining about the PRO12 because you claimed that the Irish Provinces just used it as a training ground to warm up for the Heineken Cup - and you don't even play in the PRO12 so it had nothing got to do with you.

Surely you are not claiming that its alright for the 2nd Competition in Europe to be used as a training ground for guys over 23 who are not first team players - a training ground for the Top 14?

Never stopped? For a start that's Love sacks. But secondary, no, I don't expect the 2nd tier competition in Europe to be a teams primary focus. I also don't think the LV cup should be a teams primary focus. To me it's League/Top Europe Tier as joint top. Then everything else underneath depending on your club situation. Out of form clubs often put out first teams in the LV as a way of getting a win and gaining confidence.

The Great Aukster wrote:The EPRC obviously chose Switzerland because they envy the way Mr Blatter runs his competition from there. Obviously it couldn't have been the no questions asked banking and the totally 'not driven by money' model Fifa present - so it must be the sonorous yodeling and the holier than Emmental sporting morals that attracted them?

Given that sin e likes to tell how much more it's going to cost in Switzerland, that would be a strange option wouldn't it? Wasn't it a sop to the French because they were paranoid about the Irish influence?

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:Ah hear now Hammer, you guys never stopped complaining about the PRO12 because you claimed that the Irish Provinces just used it as a training ground to warm up for the Heineken Cup - and you don't even play in the PRO12 so it had nothing got to do with you.

Surely you are not claiming that its alright for the 2nd Competition in Europe to be used as a training ground for guys over 23 who are not first team players - a training ground for the Top 14?

Never stopped? For a start that's Love sacks. But secondary, no, I don't expect the 2nd tier competition in Europe to be a teams primary focus. I also don't think the LV cup should be a teams primary focus. To me it's League/Top Europe Tier as joint top. Then everything else underneath depending on your club situation. Out of form clubs often put out first teams in the LV as a way of getting a win and gaining confidence.

It could be of interest to them if there was a decent incentive like a place in the main comp or some prize money.

HammerofThunor wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:The EPRC obviously chose Switzerland because they envy the way Mr Blatter runs his competition from there. Obviously it couldn't have been the no questions asked banking and the totally 'not driven by money' model Fifa present - so it must be the sonorous yodeling and the holier than Emmental sporting morals that attracted them?

Given that sin e likes to tell how much more it's going to cost in Switzerland, that would be a strange option wouldn't it? Wasn't it a sop to the French because they were paranoid about the Irish influence?

They were peed off with the ERC (chaired by a Frenchman) because they thought they were responsible for banning French players for gouging, high tackles and other bold stuff.

Which reminds me of a story - a friend of mine whose sister is married to a Frenchman was bringing said French brother-in-law to the airport (which they were pushed for time to get there), when they were stopped for speeding by a Garda (policeman) where upon the Frenchman starts to try and bribe the Garda!

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:Ah hear now Hammer, you guys never stopped complaining about the PRO12 because you claimed that the Irish Provinces just used it as a training ground to warm up for the Heineken Cup - and you don't even play in the PRO12 so it had nothing got to do with you.

Surely you are not claiming that its alright for the 2nd Competition in Europe to be used as a training ground for guys over 23 who are not first team players - a training ground for the Top 14?

Never stopped? For a start that's Love sacks. But secondary, no, I don't expect the 2nd tier competition in Europe to be a teams primary focus. I also don't think the LV cup should be a teams primary focus. To me it's League/Top Europe Tier as joint top. Then everything else underneath depending on your club situation. Out of form clubs often put out first teams in the LV as a way of getting a win and gaining confidence.

It could be of interest to them if there was a decent incentive like a place in the main comp or some prize money.

Could be. I agree with the vast majority. It should give a spot in the main competition in place of the playoffs.

It is an exciting end to the group stages. I think the tournament is improved - there are fewer weak sides so the average quality has risen.

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:Ah hear now Hammer, you guys never stopped complaining about the PRO12 because you claimed that the Irish Provinces just used it as a training ground to warm up for the Heineken Cup - and you don't even play in the PRO12 so it had nothing got to do with you.

Surely you are not claiming that its alright for the 2nd Competition in Europe to be used as a training ground for guys over 23 who are not first team players - a training ground for the Top 14?

Never stopped? For a start that's Love sacks. But secondary, no, I don't expect the 2nd tier competition in Europe to be a teams primary focus. I also don't think the LV cup should be a teams primary focus. To me it's League/Top Europe Tier as joint top. Then everything else underneath depending on your club situation. Out of form clubs often put out first teams in the LV as a way of getting a win and gaining confidence.

It could be of interest to them if there was a decent incentive like a place in the main comp or some prize money.

Are you saying it is not an incentive to win a trophy which says you are the best of the rest? Oh, wait....

geoff998rugby wrote:I can agree with that.

Anyway to get us back on track I see that there are 4 good looking games in Round 6 and they are all on BT Sports.

Toulon are through so effectively only Leicester and Montpellier, in their 5 fixtures, have have something to play for.
By comparison 9 of the 10 sides on BT Sports having something to play for (Castres are the exception)

Sky must be livid

Actually this might be one of the few times Sky don't notice. I can tell you mate that the bidding right for the Premiership (soccer not rugby) are coming up and after losing the Champions League rights everything Sky have at the minute is gunning for getting the best possible rights to that and from what I can tell from talking to people literally nothing else matters right now except to the legal department who are apparently in a row with the WWE over some sort of programming but I digress. I will actually have a chat to a few people this week when I am over in England and see what the feeling is towards the European rugby and anything else I can find out.

quinsforever wrote:
switzerland does have quite a bit of sporting administration expertise i think you will find...FIFA, IOC, UCI, etc, etc.

Are these really shining examples of sporting administration expertise?

5 is a terrible choice for a number of pools, basically the team in the toughest pool will automatically get an away quarter final (see Edinburgh). So i don't see where the "improvement" is, sorry.

It is an improvement but only an improvement over having no tournament at all (which i thought we would at some point).

Surely with the inclusion of certain teams whatever the number of pools some teams are going to either be advantaged or disadvantaged - for example in the HC those teams with certain Italian teams in their pools were pretty much given a 10 point head-start?

I think you could also maybe make a case for Pool 2 being the toughest pool in the Challenge cup?

i reckon pools 1, 2 and 4 were all equally tough.

Vince - 5 pools is much better than 6, as for the last several years, it meant that whichever pools had the 2 italian teams in usually produced the best runners up. at least with 5 pools, and only 1 italian team, there are genuines scraps for the 2 remaining runner up positions (no conincidence that pool 5 with treviso has already produced the qualifying runner up).

which is why we have so many relevant matches in this last round and so many possible permutations for the quarter finals.

if you dont think that is better then thats because the seeding system in the old HC always favoured the teams that didnt have to qualify...

5 pools is better than 6 as it makes it easier for the English teams to qualify - thats the only reason for it.

The european cup is now very unbalanced, biased towards english and French clubs and devalued

TJ wrote:5 pools is better than 6 as it makes it easier for the English teams to qualify - thats the only reason for it.

The european cup is now very unbalanced, biased towards the better clubs and devalued

corrected that one for you TJ

Its based on leagues so of course it ll be biased towards French and English clubs as the rest cant provide numbers. It isnt biased toward the French and English leagues though.

D'you want to revise your predictions Quins?

LOL. dont know what you mean? i'm 100% so far

100% wrong that is

Good man, predicting this game isn't easy. Part of what makes it great.

The tournament has been okay this year not really amazing but not terrible either in my opinion. From an Ulster point of view I didn't expect much once I saw the group, really we had such a turbulent summer with Humphreys going and Anscombe going too. The loss of players such as Muller, Ferris, P.Wallace and Afoa and a 15 been tried to play 13 meaning we needed another 15 when what we really needed was a back row.
Not to mention we have issues producing the correct player from our academy in vital positions and coaches who by all accounts are not the best and add in the injuries and really what you have is an interesting season to be an Ulster fan lol
My Hope is next season kiss will come in we will settle down and stabilise a bit.

quinsforever wrote:i reckon pools 1, 2 and 4 were all equally tough.

Vince - 5 pools is much better than 6, as for the last several years, it meant that whichever pools had the 2 italian teams in usually produced the best runners up. at least with 5 pools, and only 1 italian team, there are genuines scraps for the 2 remaining runner up positions (no conincidence that pool 5 with treviso has already produced the qualifying runner up).

which is why we have so many relevant matches in this last round and so many possible permutations for the quarter finals.

if you dont think that is better then thats because the seeding system in the old HC always favoured the teams that didnt have to qualify...

I was talking about the Challenge Cup pools Quins ..

Pot Hale wrote:

quinsforever wrote:
switzerland does have quite a bit of sporting administration expertise i think you will find...FIFA, IOC, UCI, etc, etc.

Are these really shining examples of sporting administration expertise?

my point is that there will be plenty of support staff available to fill jobs within eprc.

and yes those are examples of sporting administration expertise. whether you think the organisations are laudable is a totally other and irrelevant point. they are example of sporting administration expertise by any measure.

quinsforever wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

quinsforever wrote:
switzerland does have quite a bit of sporting administration expertise i think you will find...FIFA, IOC, UCI, etc, etc.

Are these really shining examples of sporting administration expertise?

my point is that there will be plenty of support staff available to fill jobs within eprc.

and yes those are examples of sporting administration expertise. whether you think the organisations are laudable is a totally other and irrelevant point. they are example of sporting administration expertise by any measure.

It doesn't bode well then that the main sport in Neuchâtel is football and the local club went bankrupt in 2012 and are now playing amateur Im sure they will be looking for new jobs.

Lets home the local administrators don't make the same mistakes they made with the the Chumps Cup

By the way, the nearest international airport is 2 hours away and I doubt very much if FIFA, IOC administrators will be jumping up and down to move to Neuchâtel (pop. 48K) which is regarded as a backwater.

1h15min from geneva airport to neuchatel

thats how long it takes to get from heathrow to the city on most days

switzerland is tiny and most locals dont live in the centre of geneva and zurich as they are very expensive

quinsforever wrote:1h15min from geneva airport to neuchatel

thats how long it takes to get from heathrow to the city on most days

switzerland is tiny and most locals dont live in the centre of geneva and zurich as they are very expensive

By train maybe. How many are there a day? Geneva Airport is 122 km away.

Dublin airport (Ryanair HQ) to ERC HQ would be about 30 mins by taxi and 45 mins by coach (which would drop you right outside the building) with coaches every 10 mins or so. Then there would be a public bus service.

I'm not sure what the significance is of where people live in Geneva. The point is that Neuchatal is a biggish town, whose main industry is technology and where it will be difficult to get local people to run the organisation. 11 people have turned down the offer of a job already.

What I'd give to just do away with the group stages altogether. Teams like Castres and Montpellier don't want to be in the competition so why should they be here for 6 rounds of matches. Making it a 32 team home and away knockout would clear out the undeserving early.

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:1h15min from geneva airport to neuchatel

thats how long it takes to get from heathrow to the city on most days

switzerland is tiny and most locals dont live in the centre of geneva and zurich as they are very expensive

By train maybe. How many are there a day? Geneva Airport is 122 km away.

Dublin airport (Ryanair HQ) to ERC HQ would be about 30 mins by taxi and 45 mins by coach (which would drop you right outside the building) with coaches every 10 mins or so. Then there would be a public bus service.

I'm not sure what the significance is of where people live in Geneva. The point is that Neuchatal is a biggish town, whose main industry is technology and where it will be difficult to get local people to run the organisation.  11 people have turned down the offer of a job already.

you said it was 2 hours from the nearest airport. i highlighted what a pile of steaming that statement was. and given that my in-laws live in geneva i can tell you that 1h15 is how long it takes to drive. confirmed by goolemaps incidentally.

nice attempt at moving the goalposts that you set out by the way