Wales v England - 6 February 2015 - Match thread

[BamBam]

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Wales v England
6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off at 20.05

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)
AR1: Romain Poite (FFR)
AR2: Mathieu Raynal (FFR)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

Live on BBC1

Wales

01. Gethin Jenkins
02. Richard Hibbard
03. Samson Lee
04. Alun Wyn Jones
05. Jake Ball
06. Dan Lydiate
07. Sam Warburton (c)
08. Toby Faletau

09. Rhys Webb
10. Dan Biggar
11. George North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Scott Baldwin
17. Paul James
18. Aaron Jarvis
19. Luke Charteris
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Mike Phillips
22. Rhys Preistland
23. Liam Williams

England

15. Mike Brown
14. Anthony Watson
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Luther Burrell
11. Jonny May
10. George Ford
09. Ben Youngs  

01. Joe Marler
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Dan Cole
04. David Attwood
05. George Kruis
06. James Haskell
07. Chris Robshaw (captain)
08. Billy Vunipola

16. Tom Youngs
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Kieran Brookes
19. Tom Croft
20. Nick Easter
21. Richard Wigglesworth
22. Danny Cipriani
23. Billy Twelvetrees

[TheRugbyMaster]

Wales. 75 minutes aimlessly kicking it away, and then 5 minutes of left to right pedestrian back line play. Got anything else?

[Fernando]

Wales 16-21 England -

1 minute to find a try for Wales

[whocares]

awful awful awful.

garces will be demoted for this. you heard it here first.

are you applying for his job?

[quinsforever]

the rules are clear. if the alleged abstruction player is behind the ball then there's no obstruction unless he created a clear advantage. which he didnt. mako was tackled on the line.

[Geordie]

Well I'm not a twelvetrees fan but that was a tremendous turnover / penalty.

[Steve_rugby]

Come on England, keep them in their 22.

[Fernando]

FT Wales 16-21 England

[nathan]

Get in there, Frak hell!

[quinsforever]

awful awful awful.

garces will be demoted for this. you heard it here first.

are you applying for his job?

hell no. i recognise given the rules of rugby that its a poopshow, but he has had a howler tonight. at HW this would be a 20 point whupping.

[The Saint]

We still haven't learnt not to get into a maul eh. Terrible decisions by players and management going into this game. Deserved win by england. However, I suggest a sticky be set up where england fans can go and complain about the ref. this thread has just been pathetic english moaning.

[Steve_rugby]

Have it !

[mckay1402]

That was pretty terrible second 70 minutes from Wales

[whocares]

England defense had been awsome this half. Only one team on the pitch in the last 40. Fully deserved

[Guest]

Congratulations England. Good win with a weakened team.

Wales: Absolute shocker. Created nothing. Spent no time in their 22 after the first few minutes. No attacking moves. No penetration. Totally outplayed.

[TheRugbyMaster]

now that England have won - it's all about the World Cup.

[BamBam]

Get in England, commiserations Welsh fans

I'm off to get peed!

[Steve_rugby]

Never in doubt.

[Biltong]

Congrats England, against the odds.

I thought it was a good game, intensity hugh and entertaining stuff.

[Steve_rugby]

Maybe it's you that needs to learn the rules. You've been talking absolute rubbish all game.

Laws.

[nobbled]

England A defeat Wales 1st team!!!

Sorry - couldn't resist!!

[quinsforever]

told you it would be an england win.

in spite of the rubbish first half garces performance. as has been said, someone obviously reminded garces of the rules at half time.

[nathan]

We still haven't learnt not to get into a maul eh. Terrible decisions by players and management going into this game. Deserved win by england. However, I suggest a sticky be set up where england fans can go and complain about the ref. this thread has just been pathetic english moaning.

And so you being better than those by errrrrrr.... Moaning.

[Biltong]

Never in doubt.

I beg to differ on that.

[Geordie]

Well that was a huge win.

I wasn't impressed first half but they turned It round. Well done.

[Breadvan]

Woohoo. Great second half display. Not buying this B team nonsense. Only 4 first starters missing.

[quinsforever]

jiffy - "totally outplayed"

"but there's no plan B as usual"

[bluestonevedder]

I've been saying all along that Twelvetrees took unjust flak for his defence, and he was immense in his cameo. Smashed his tackles, vital turnover. He has his faults but he certainly contributed to that victory.

Hue game from England!!

[nathan]

Well that was a huge win.

I wasn't impressed first half but they turned It round. Well done.

Positive Gf!!!

[whocares]

awful awful awful.

garces will be demoted for this. you heard it here first.

are you applying for his job?

hell no. i recognise given the rules of rugby that its a poopshow, but he has had a howler tonight. at HW this would be a 20 point whupping.

You should chill and enjoy the deserved victory. No need for this biaised nonsense

[jimmyinthewell68]

Well done England you deserved to win fair play . good luck to the rest of tour

[Sgt_Pooly]

We can finally say we are better than Wales without question, thank god for that.

Onwards and upwards, great win away, we actually looked like a team.

Ireland are the real challengers.

[nobbled]

Never in doubt.

I beg to differ on that.

Me 2 - my heart rate is still nowhere near where it should be!
In doubt all the way - but great result!

[Guest]

Woohoo. Great second half display. Not buying this B team nonsense. Only 4 first starters missing.

It's the English fans/media, etc mainly who were claiming the B team status pre game. If only 4 were missing then that paints a different picture. I'm not as gutted now if that's the case. But still pretty gutted.

[Mr Taff]

Shameful performance by Wales. Shameful.

[nathan]

Can I just point out that Tom youngs threw better than Hartley. Doesn't happen often

[Steve_rugby]

Great win and we won on tries scored as well

[quinsforever]

awful awful awful.

garces will be demoted for this. you heard it here first.

are you applying for his job?

hell no. i recognise given the rules of rugby that its a poopshow, but he has had a howler tonight. at HW this would be a 20 point whupping.

You should chill and enjoy the deserved victory. No need for this biaised nonsense

chill? you obviously dont understand england wales matches. i have been nervous all day. growing up in cardiff probably explains that. rugby in the bones.

yes england were deserved winners. but the 1st half by garces was indeed poor.

[DaveM]

Totally deserved.

Two general points:

- England have two of the best packs in the world
- In Watson, Joseph, Ford, Brown and May England have a core of a world class backline. They all need to develop and we need to find a 12 with the full skill-set. The Welsh backs look big and ponderous in comparison.

[Mike Selig]

the rules are clear. if the alleged abstruction player is behind the ball then there's no obstruction unless he created a clear advantage. which he didnt. mako was tackled on the line.

Sorry but this is wrong. Obstruction is basically another word for off-side in open play. A player is off-side if he is in front of the ball (you cannot be guilty of obstruction if you are behind the ball, clear offence or not; you can be guilty of offences like playing the man without the ball etc. but that is not obstruction). He is liable to be penalised if he has an effect on the game.

That Easter was behind the passer when he passed the ball is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether:
- he was in front of the ball at any stage (he clearly was)
- he had enough of an effect on the game to be penalised (debateable, I would say probably not on balance)

Overall:
- England thoroughly deserved the win. Wales had nothing in the second half.
- Garces had a decent game. Some of his decisions were contentious, and some were just wrong (in hindsight, and at the time), but I don't think you could say he had an effect on the overall nature or result of the game; as I said earlier, he was fair and balanced, in control, and didn't make any major howlers (if you accept the non award of the try could have gone either way) - don't think either side would have much to complain about. Garces is not the best referee around, but for him he had a good game.

[nobbled]

Had a feeling we were going to do well in the second half just by the way Robshaw looked when he came back out - calm but focussed. Then the intensity was just upped massively

[TJ]

I think we are now arguing semantics. I agree that any player not supporting his feet at the breakdown shouldn't play the ball or indeed interfere in anyway. However the original post said the tackler not supporting his weight was an offence. I was merely pointing out that this is an absurdity.

I don't like people nitpicking officials' decisions overall. I think Garces has had a decent game, it's been fair and balanced, and no major howlers. Given how complex the sport is to referee I think that's as good as you can hope for.

Yup - I agree, No major mistakes, clear instructions to the players. Consistent all game.

[Duty281]

Superb win for England against the odds. Went pretty much the way I thought it would if England were to win: a Welsh fast start, but not being allowed to disappear over the horizon, followed by a gradual England improvement to chip away and wear down the hosts. Flashes of brilliance from the backs, complemented by a good set-piece overall.

Good game management on the whole by England, countering the fast line speed of their opponents, and improving rapidly at the breakdown as the game went on.

Have to say, poor subs from Lancaster once again, though.

Wales rather one-dimensional, and will be dismayed at losing this.

Ahead of the more important rugby event of the year, England, depleted England, have established a tremendous psychological advantage.

[nathan]

The nerves has made me down the bottle of wine, well that's the excuse I'll make to the wife

[Guest]

Totally deserved.

Two general points:

- England have two of the best packs in the world
- In Watson, Joseph, Ford, Brown and May England have a core of a world class backline. They all need to develop and we need to find a 12 with the full skill-set. The Welsh backs look big and ponderous in comparison.

True, but you'll have much harder games than that shower of s*it we offered you today.

[nathan]

Totally deserved.

Two general points:

- England have two of the best packs in the world
- In Watson, Joseph, Ford, Brown and May England have a core of a world class backline. They all need to develop and we need to find a 12 with the full skill-set. The Welsh backs look big and ponderous in comparison.

True, but you'll have much harder games than that shower of s*it was offered you today.

We should also have some players back.

[quinsforever]

Totally deserved.

Two general points:

- England have two of the best packs in the world
- In Watson, Joseph, Ford, Brown and May England have a core of a world class backline. They all need to develop and we need to find a 12 with the full skill-set. The Welsh backs look big and ponderous in comparison.

LOL. But true.

have been banging on about joseph and ford for ages. they are the way forwards. watson was awesome too.

i reckon bath (whose strength is their pack) could well win the euro cup too with that backline.

[TJ]

easter was behind the ball when it was passed. therefore cannot be obstruction. shocking decision. shocking. needs to learn the rules.

Obvoious and clear obstruction Quins. the ball was passed behind him and he blocked a tackler. Correct decision

[Steve_rugby]

I wish the roof had been closed now. The sound of 70,000 Welsh men crying, echoing around the stadium would have been something.

[Biltong]

the rules are clear. if the alleged abstruction player is behind the ball then there's no obstruction unless he created a clear advantage. which he didnt. mako was tackled on the line.

Sorry but this is wrong. Obstruction is basically another word for off-side in open play. A player is off-side if he is in front of the ball (you cannot be guilty of obstruction if you are behind the ball, clear offence or not; you can be guilty of offences like playing the man without the ball etc. but that is not obstruction). He is liable to be penalised if he has an effect on the game.

That Easter was behind the passer when he passed the ball is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether:
- he was in front of the ball at any stage (he clearly was)
- he had enough of an effect on the game to be penalised (debateable, I would say probably not on balance)

Overall:
- England thoroughly deserved the win. Wales had nothing in the second half.
- Garces had a decent game. Some of his decisions were contentious, and some were just wrong (in hindsight, and at the time), but I don't think you could say he had an effect on the overall nature or result of the game; as I said earlier, he was fair and balanced, in control, and didn't make any major howlers (if you accept the non award of the try could have gone either way) - don't think either side would have much to complain about. Garces is not the best referee around, but for him he had a good game.

Technically it is obstruction, regardless of any other factors.

[glamorganalun]

Well done England good win, wales stuffed in scrum not sure it was the front row wales back row looked lightweight, the backs can t play without the ball and what they had they kicked it away, Phillips offered nothing.

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