Wales v England - 6 February 2015 - Match thread

[BamBam]

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Wales v England
6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off at 20.05

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)
AR1: Romain Poite (FFR)
AR2: Mathieu Raynal (FFR)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

Live on BBC1

Wales

01. Gethin Jenkins
02. Richard Hibbard
03. Samson Lee
04. Alun Wyn Jones
05. Jake Ball
06. Dan Lydiate
07. Sam Warburton (c)
08. Toby Faletau

09. Rhys Webb
10. Dan Biggar
11. George North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Scott Baldwin
17. Paul James
18. Aaron Jarvis
19. Luke Charteris
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Mike Phillips
22. Rhys Preistland
23. Liam Williams

England

15. Mike Brown
14. Anthony Watson
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Luther Burrell
11. Jonny May
10. George Ford
09. Ben Youngs  

01. Joe Marler
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Dan Cole
04. David Attwood
05. George Kruis
06. James Haskell
07. Chris Robshaw (captain)
08. Billy Vunipola

16. Tom Youngs
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Kieran Brookes
19. Tom Croft
20. Nick Easter
21. Richard Wigglesworth
22. Danny Cipriani
23. Billy Twelvetrees

[bluestonevedder]

Maybe the Western Mail should run a campaign to get every Welsh fan to bring an umbrella - the net sonic effect being the same as one big roof.

Now I'm picturing 60,000 fans dressed as leeks and daffodils holding umbrellas.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

...

Of course an Englishman is the mastermind of the Welsh defence too....you owe most of your success to an Englishman - don't forget it.

You could say Englishmen but I guess we had better not go there

Interesting article in the Torygraph about Phil Bennett's wind up talk before leading out Wales against England, full of "they have shut our mines", "they have bought all our houses and only live in them 2 weeks a year" the usual crap (even if some of it was true). He says he couldn't do that now, too many Englishmen in the side, about half of them were born here and not Wales. If you take parents and place of birth as 1/3 of nationality each. Half the Welsh side is 2/3s English.

[LordDowlais]

Half the Welsh side is 2/3s English

Well, they would not cope in England would they ? What with all this strength in depth you have, they would never get to know each other, they would never get tested on the international stage, they would forget all the moves they learned in training because they have never played together. Nah, they chose the more settled of the two nations, a nation where they would be loved, and capped more often than not, imagine having to be played at 8th fiddle behind everybody and only getting your chance when everyone else was injured, how on earth would you be expected to be even to catch a ball at international level at that rate.

[MarcusHalberstram]

...

Of course an Englishman is the mastermind of the Welsh defence too....you owe most of your success to an Englishman - don't forget it.

You could say Englishmen but I guess we had better not go there

Interesting article in the Torygraph about Phil Bennett's wind up talk before leading out Wales against England, full of "they have shut our mines", "they have bought all our houses and only live in them 2 weeks a year" the usual crap (even if some of it was true). He says he couldn't do that now, too many Englishmen in the side, about half of them were born here and not Wales. If you take parents and place of birth as 1/3 of nationality each. Half the Welsh side is 2/3s English.


     

They wear a different colour shirt - they live "over there" - and they think they're better than us. That's about all you need to keep a sporting rivalry going.

[MarcusHalberstram]

And by the way - just to be clear, my previous statement is meant to be universally applicable - not just about the English!

[TightHEAD]

Half the Welsh side is 2/3s English

Thats why I respect and fear them.

[nobbled]

I think the roof issue is pretty simple. Pishing with rain or heavy snow? Closed. Otherwise - open.

[TightHEAD]

Cant close it when there is snow about as it will collapse.

[Alex_Germany]

Interesting article in the Torygraph about Phil Bennett's wind up talk before leading out Wales against England, full of "they have shut our mines", "they have bought all our houses and only live in them 2 weeks a year" the usual crap (even if some of it was true). He says he couldn't do that now, too many Englishmen in the side, about half of them were born here and not Wales. If you take parents and place of birth as 1/3 of nationality each. Half the Welsh side is 2/3s English.


     

He would also be charged with racism and get sacked.

Or would that only be if the English Captain spouted similar drivel about the Welsh? He'd be charged with "aggravated arrogance".

[The Saint]

Good luck to England, I bet they're targeting the Grand Slam this year. I hope for their own sake they do better this year as when they've been close to achieving that in the past they got absolutely thrashed in their final game. First it was given out by Ireland in 2011, then Wales also handed them another good drubbing in 2013. The ref was blamed on both occasions.

[lostinwales]

Good luck to England, I bet they're targeting the Grand Slam this year. I hope for their own sake they do better this year as when they've been close to achieving that in the past they got absolutely thrashed in their final game. First it was given out by Ireland in 2011, then Wales also handed them another good drubbing in 2013. The ref was blamed on both occasions.

We didnt lose because of the ref 2 years ago. That had everything to do with an inspired Welsh performance and a poor England one. But the magnitude of the defeat did have a lot to do with him, and aspects of his performance will always leave a bad taste.

[gregortree]

+1

[The Saint]

Good luck to England, I bet they're targeting the Grand Slam this year. I hope for their own sake they do better this year as when they've been close to achieving that in the past they got absolutely thrashed in their final game. First it was given out by Ireland in 2011, then Wales also handed them another good drubbing in 2013. The ref was blamed on both occasions.

We didnt lose because of the ref 2 years ago. That had everything to do with an inspired Welsh performance and a poor England one. But the magnitude of the defeat did have a lot to do with him, and aspects of his performance will always leave a bad taste.

Welsh fans said the same about Poite, who looked as if he didn't have a clue and didn't penalise both sides fairly. Yet we weren't allowed to say so. It would seem that Wales fans on here don't have the same rights as everyone else.

[gregortree]

diddums Saint, ain't life unfair on 606, never mind, this will make it better....

[No 7&1/2]

But Hartley was standing up

[The Saint]

diddums Saint, ain't life unfair on 606, never mind, this will make it better....

I'd rather have won a Slam in 2008 and 2012 than get stuffed at the final hurdle though 2013 was alright, just business as usual.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Maybe the Western Mail should run a campaign to get every Welsh fan to bring an umbrella - the net sonic effect being the same as one big roof.

Now I'm picturing 60,000 fans dressed as leeks and daffodils holding umbrellas.

Don't forget the pink Cowboys now

[TightHEAD]

Maybe the Western Mail should run a campaign to get every Welsh fan to bring an umbrella - the net sonic effect being the same as one big roof.

Now I'm picturing 60,000 fans dressed as leeks and daffodils holding umbrellas.

Don't forget the pink Cowboys now

Why the pink hats, why?

[gregortree]

Maybe the Western Mail should run a campaign to get every Welsh fan to bring an umbrella - the net sonic effect being the same as one big roof.

Now I'm picturing 60,000 fans dressed as leeks and daffodils holding umbrellas.

Don't forget the pink Cowboys now

Why the pink hats, why?

TightHead, you know nothing of valley fashion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb21lsCQ3EM

[Jimpy]

diddums Saint, ain't life unfair on 606, never mind, this will make it better....

I'd rather have won a Slam in 2008 and 2012 than get stuffed at the final hurdle though 2013 was alright, just business as usual.

Its funny, because I think pretty much everyone on here could have predicted you were going to respond like that.

[The Saint]

diddums Saint, ain't life unfair on 606, never mind, this will make it better....

I'd rather have won a Slam in 2008 and 2012 than get stuffed at the final hurdle though 2013 was alright, just business as usual.

Its funny, because I think pretty much everyone on here could have predicted you were going to respond like that.

Should I be like one of the low lives on here and start slagging nations off whilst hiding behind the anonymity of a monitor? I'd rather talk about rugby. If you don't then perhaps you should have stayed away, eh gimpy .

Oh and try not to keep blaming the ref when you guys lose games this year.

[gregortree]

Keep that up Saint and I'll reluctantly be forced to break out my 1966 and 2003 retaliatory weapons.

[The Saint]

Keep that up Saint and I'll reluctantly be forced to break out my 1966 and 2003 retaliatory weapons.

Nothing changes eh!

[gregortree]

ok then, you asked for this.
6 nations - the leaderboard. Top for PD, Tries, points.

Pld W D L PF PA PD T Pts Champs
England 75 51 1 23 2061 1157 + 904 214 103 4 1 3 0
France 75 50 2 23 1899 1324 + 575 184 102 5 3 N/A 1
Ireland 75 49 2 24 1833 1393 + 440 188 100 2 1 4 0
Wales 75 40 2 33 1688 1630 + 58 153 82 4 3 3 1
Scotland 75 19 2 54 1183 1872 − 689 85 40 0 0 0 3
Italy 75 11 1 63 1098 2386 − 1288 89 23 0 0 N/A 10

[Jimpy]

diddums Saint, ain't life unfair on 606, never mind, this will make it better....

I'd rather have won a Slam in 2008 and 2012 than get stuffed at the final hurdle though 2013 was alright, just business as usual.

Its funny, because I think pretty much everyone on here could have predicted you were going to respond like that.

Should I be like one of the low lives on here and start slagging nations off whilst hiding behind the anonymity of a monitor? I'd rather talk about rugby. If you don't then perhaps you should have stayed away, eh gimpy .

Oh and try not to keep blaming the ref when you guys lose games this year.

I thought that that is pretty much all you do - maybe I was wrong. Oh, and name calling too.

I've been offline for a while, but I think you'll find that i've attempted to contribute to this discussion in a meaningful way upon my return, i'm struggling to see where you have?

Who has been blaming the referee for losses? Maybe one or two have - certainly no more than some Welsh posters have blamed the referee for their losses. There is plenty of sensible discussion to be had on this article, please try to contribute or perhaps it is you who should stay away?

[beshocked]

Well said Jimpy.

Yes the saint Wales have done well recently with 3 GS in the last 10 years but that doesn't mean you are guaranteed one this year.

Plus it seems like Wales are slow starters who build up momentum as a tournament goes on.

Steve Walsh fits into the same hall of infamous refs as Alain Rolland but he wasn't the reason England lost in 2013. Wales were simply the better team - they also exposed weaknesses in England's game like scoring two tries down the wing of the out of position Brown which gave a favourable gloss to the scoreline. Putting Wood at no 8 didn't help either.

An imbalanced backrow of Croft,Robshaw,Wood didn't stand a chance!

Haskell,Robshaw and Vunipola has a bit more bite to it.

A much improved Marler, a beefier hooker like Hartley and Cole should lead to a stronger scrum.

Far more reasons to be more optimistic than 2013.


No out of form Manu at 13 instead we have arguably the form 13 in Europe - Joseph.

[Chjw131]

Well said Jimpy.

Yes the saint Wales have done well recently with 3 GS in the last 10 years but that doesn't mean you are guaranteed one this year.

Plus it seems like Wales are slow starters who build up momentum as a tournament goes on.

Steve Walsh fits into the same hall of infamous refs as Alain Rolland but he wasn't the reason England lost in 2013. Wales were simply the better team - they also exposed weaknesses in England's game like scoring two tries down the wing of the out of position Brown which gave a favourable gloss to the scoreline. Putting Wood at no 8 didn't help either.

An imbalanced backrow of Croft,Robshaw,Wood didn't stand a chance!

Haskell,Robshaw and Vunipola has a bit more bite to it.

A much improved Marler, a beefier hooker like Hartley and Cole should lead to a stronger scrum.

Far more reasons to be more optimistic than 2013.


No out of form Manu at 13 instead we have arguably the form 13 in Europe - Joseph.

Spot on, paper-wise I feel more confident about this game than I did last time around. We also have the last win, in which we played very well.

[beshocked]

chjw131 true but no Care who caught Wales napping, no Farrell who kept Wales honest with his goal kicking and good kicking game (no one realises it but Burrell's try started from a brilliant kick to touch by Farrell), Twelvetrees only on the bench (the so called messiah's grubber being hailed as being absolute genius).No Morgan, a Burrell who is not in the same form as he was last season, ditto Brown. No Wood,Lawes or Launchbury.

It will be a different team to the one who beat Wales last season so we'll see....

[Chjw131]

chjw131 true but no Care who caught Wales napping, no Farrell who kept Wales honest with his goal kicking and good kicking game (no one realises it but Burrell's try started from a brilliant kick to touch by Farrell), Twelvetrees only on the bench (the so called messiah's grubber being hailed as being absolute genius).No Morgan, a Burrell who is not in the same form as he was last season, ditto Brown. No Wood,Lawes or Launchbury.

It will be a different team to the one who beat Wales last season so we'll see....

All true but out of that group Lawes and Launchbury are the biggest losses for me. I like Attwood but those two were forming a really formidable partnership in the second row. The line-out was mostly outstanding as well. We'll see how it goes with Kruis running it this time. Whilst he's an impressive youngster I don't yet know how he's going to step up properly to international level.

Ford's kicking game (from hand) has the edge on Farrell I think. From the tee he's nowhere near as consistent as Farrell. Burrell hasn't been in too bad a form, with the exception of playing on with a knock against JR, he was outstanding in The Saints' defeat of Tigers. Joseph is also the form centre of the AP and has played against South Africa away and Argentina away, so I don't worry about him too much.

Brown's form hasn't been anything to write home about but he still breaks the first tackle and that's what Lancs wants of him I think.

[maestegmafia]

chjw131 true but no Care who caught Wales napping, no Farrell who kept Wales honest with his goal kicking and good kicking game (no one realises it but Burrell's try started from a brilliant kick to touch by Farrell), Twelvetrees only on the bench (the so called messiah's grubber being hailed as being absolute genius).No Morgan, a Burrell who is not in the same form as he was last season, ditto Brown. No Wood,Lawes or Launchbury.

It will be a different team to the one who beat Wales last season so we'll see....

Hold on a minute mate...

Ford is playing much better than "out of form Farrell", you wrote that yourself. Joseph and Burrell are the form English Qualified centres in the premiership. Brown is apparently world class, may is the first choice winger as is Watson.

In the pack Marler is first choice as Corbs is barely ever fit enough to take the field. You guys always pick Hartley over Youngs and Webber, God knows why, but they are all fit. Cole is definitely the best tighthead you have, not much game time, but he has played almost the same amount of games as Warburton this year.

Second row, no one knows who your first choices are, you keep changing??? They are all much of a muchness..

Backrow is all the first choices on form bar maybe Billy V who is number two, but you could have picked Easter who is the form number eight in the league...

Injuries have forced Lancaster to not pick his favourites... But on so many threads and posts prior to the six nations all the English fans were selecting a dream fifteen that looks a lot like this...

[BamBam]

Will Kruis or Attwood be calling the lineout?

Believe me maes, Lawes and Launchbury are our first choice, no question about it

If Wilson was fit, Cole would be on the bench too, Davey has been in great form and Cole needs to take the shirt back off him, which he'll now have the chance to do

[Chjw131]

Will Kruis or Attwood be calling the lineout?

Believe me maes, Lawes and Launchbury are our first choice, no question about it

If Wilson was fit, Cole would be on the bench too, Davey has been in great form and Cole needs to take the shirt back off him, which he'll now have the chance to do

According to some it's Kruis calling. That's why I can't understand Kitchener not being involved.

[thomh]

I think the problem with the England side is not so much that the players we've picked are much worse than those being replaced through injury, but just that the constant lack of consistency in selection is holding back the team from developing. We were playing pretty well by the end of the Autumn series, but have now had to change 6 of the players from the starting team. We quite comfortably beat Wales last year but some of the standout players from that game have got injured or lost form (Lawes, Care, Farrell, Twelvetrees etc).

Haskell, Joseph, Cole, Kruis, Vunipola and Burrell are all perfectly good replacements some of which people were calling for anyway, but the volume of changes is frustrating.

[maestegmafia]

Will Kruis or Attwood be calling the lineout?

Believe me maes, Lawes and Launchbury are our first choice, no question about it

If Wilson was fit, Cole would be on the bench too, Davey has been in great form and Cole needs to take the shirt back off him, which he'll now have the chance to do

Other than the locks, that is a team made up of form players that all the fans have been calling for prior to this game.

To them say it is a weak team when only two locks are missing from the team you guys want to see is a bit ridiculous.

Also the locks, who quite a number of England's fans rate very highly.

[maestegmafia]

I think the problem with the England side is not so much that the players we've picked are much worse than those being replaced through injury, but just that the constant lack of consistency in selection is holding back the team from developing. We were playing pretty well by the end of the Autumn series, but have now had to change 6 of the players from the starting team. We quite comfortably beat Wales last year but some of the standout players from that game have got injured or lost form (Lawes, Care, Farrell, Twelvetrees etc).

Haskell, Joseph, Cole, Kruis, Vunipola and Burrell are all perfectly good replacements some of which people were calling for anyway, but the volume of changes is frustrating.

Bit late now...! The RWC is in September...

[Gwlad]

Ford may well be the future, but isn't this his first 6 nations game, with a new centre pairing (surprise!) against Wales, in Cardiff. If he produces the results on Friday he should be canonized on the spot and made to marry Pippa Middleton next weekend.

[LondonTiger]

Lord, it is amazing how some people never have anything positive to say, instead always having a dig.

I am hoping for a good game, but expect instead to get a nervy affair. Wales are a settled team. Some Welsh fans argue they are too settled and the latest "form" players should be included. Gatland however appreciates building a team and the truism that class is permanent form temporary.

If we exclude the issues involved in selection last summer, Lancaster has tried to do the same - but at times has been hamstrung by injuries. Thus we see both the benefit of having high numbers of players. When injuries hit thrtr are plenty of able replacements - however sorting the wheat from the chaff is harder.

Wales are at home, they are confident and used to beating England. They are a settled team. While their tactics are pretty basic, they have class sprinkled throughout the side.

England, mainly due to injuries, are yet again an untried unit. It is full of good players who have performed well in Europe. It does not feel enough.

At home I think England will win, away I reckon they are looking at a 10pt defeat.

[maestegmafia]

Anyone else on the injury list yet? I'm thinking back strain for Attwood as he tries in vain to leap for one of Tom Young's lineout throws.

Manu Tuilagi 1st on reputation

Owen Farrell 2nd choice behind Ford

David Wilson first because Coles been injured but definitely second choice over their respective careers.

Joe Launchbury First choice but hasn't played much rugby this year so who knows whether he has been usurped.

Courtney Lawes first choice apparently, but when he's available fans call for Attwood, Kruise, Parling

Tom Wood out of favour with fans but a regular name, many calling for Haskell

Ben Morgan was behind Vunipola until the last game in the AIs. Easter is the form 8 in the AP, Morgan played well as a sub in the autumn.

[BamBam]

Will Kruis or Attwood be calling the lineout?

Believe me maes, Lawes and Launchbury are our first choice, no question about it

If Wilson was fit, Cole would be on the bench too, Davey has been in great form and Cole needs to take the shirt back off him, which he'll now have the chance to do

Other than the locks, that is a team made up of form players that all the fans have been calling for prior to this game.

To them say it is a weak team when only two locks are missing from the team you guys want to see is a bit ridiculous.

Also the locks, who quite a number of England's fans rate very highly.  

Fookin hell mate, I pointed out you were wrong about the locks and Cole I didn't say that it was a weak team, but I do definitely think its not massively close to being a first choice 23 either.

You can add Manu, Corbs, Farrell, Morgan, Wood, maybe even Foden as players who would be in the first choice 23, but I can't really be bothered to argue about it any more

[beshocked]

chjw131 true but no Care who caught Wales napping, no Farrell who kept Wales honest with his goal kicking and good kicking game (no one realises it but Burrell's try started from a brilliant kick to touch by Farrell), Twelvetrees only on the bench (the so called messiah's grubber being hailed as being absolute genius).No Morgan, a Burrell who is not in the same form as he was last season, ditto Brown. No Wood,Lawes or Launchbury.

It will be a different team to the one who beat Wales last season so we'll see....

Hold on a minute mate...

Ford is playing much better than "out of form Farrell", you wrote that yourself. Joseph and Burrell are the form English Qualified centres in the premiership. Brown is apparently world class, may is the first choice winger as is Watson.

In the pack Marler is first choice as Corbs is barely ever fit enough to take the field. You guys always pick Hartley over Youngs and Webber, God knows why, but they are all fit. Cole is definitely the best tighthead you have, not much game time, but he has played almost the same amount of games as Warburton this year.

Second row, no one knows who your first choices are, you keep changing??? They are all much of a muchness..

Backrow is all the first choices on form bar maybe Billy V who is number two, but you could have picked Easter who is the form number eight in the league...

Injuries have forced Lancaster to not pick his favourites... But on so many threads and posts prior to the six nations all the English fans were selecting a dream fifteen that looks a lot like this...

Farrell is woefully out of form now but when he played vs Wales last year he had a decent game. Joseph is the form 13 but he's largely unproven at international level. Burrell is not playing nearly as well as he was in the last year's 6 nations.

I am just saying that when England beat Wales last year backline players like Care,Farrell,Burrell and Brown were playing very well.

Haven't seen the same form this season.

If England are to beat Wales then Joseph will equally need to be a revelation at 13, Ford will need to pull the strings at 10, Brown and Burrell need to show the form of last year etc.

[maestegmafia]

Will Kruis or Attwood be calling the lineout?

Believe me maes, Lawes and Launchbury are our first choice, no question about it

If Wilson was fit, Cole would be on the bench too, Davey has been in great form and Cole needs to take the shirt back off him, which he'll now have the chance to do

Other than the locks, that is a team made up of form players that all the fans have been calling for prior to this game.

To them say it is a weak team when only two locks are missing from the team you guys want to see is a bit ridiculous.

Also the locks, who quite a number of England's fans rate very highly.  

Fookin hell mate, I pointed out you were wrong about the locks and Cole I didn't say that it was a weak team, but I do definitely think its not massively close to being a first choice 23 either.

You can add Manu, Corbs, Farrell, Morgan, Wood, maybe even Foden as players who would be in the first choice 23, but I can't really be bothered to argue about it any more

Attwood and Kruise are not far behind Lawes and Launchbury, considering that Launchbury hasn't played international rugby in eight months and hardly any club games either, how would anyone know whether he is better than Attwood or Kruise in their current form. Lawes looks good some games, others he is derided massively.

[BamBam]

[maestegmafia]

chjw131 true but no Care who caught Wales napping, no Farrell who kept Wales honest with his goal kicking and good kicking game (no one realises it but Burrell's try started from a brilliant kick to touch by Farrell), Twelvetrees only on the bench (the so called messiah's grubber being hailed as being absolute genius).No Morgan, a Burrell who is not in the same form as he was last season, ditto Brown. No Wood,Lawes or Launchbury.

It will be a different team to the one who beat Wales last season so we'll see....

Hold on a minute mate...

Ford is playing much better than "out of form Farrell", you wrote that yourself. Joseph and Burrell are the form English Qualified centres in the premiership. Brown is apparently world class, may is the first choice winger as is Watson.

In the pack Marler is first choice as Corbs is barely ever fit enough to take the field. You guys always pick Hartley over Youngs and Webber, God knows why, but they are all fit. Cole is definitely the best tighthead you have, not much game time, but he has played almost the same amount of games as Warburton this year.

Second row, no one knows who your first choices are, you keep changing??? They are all much of a muchness..

Backrow is all the first choices on form bar maybe Billy V who is number two, but you could have picked Easter who is the form number eight in the league...

Injuries have forced Lancaster to not pick his favourites... But on so many threads and posts prior to the six nations all the English fans were selecting a dream fifteen that looks a lot like this...

Farrell is woefully out of form now but when he played vs Wales last year he had a decent game. Joseph is the form 13 but he's largely unproven at international level. Burrell is not playing nearly as well as he was in the last year's 6 nations.

I am just saying that when England beat Wales last year backline players like Care,Farrell,Burrell and Brown were playing very well.

Haven't seen the same form this season.

If England are to beat Wales then Joseph will equally need to be a revelation at 13, Ford will need to pull the strings at 10, Brown and Burrell need to show the form of last year etc.

I agree, it's going to be tough to see combinations work quickly. Probably similar to the French team situation.

[thomh]

I don't think that's true about Lawes. He's probably been our most consistently outstanding player for 18 months now. Second row is the one position where our injuries have us looking really quite light.

I don't really see your point anyway? You're saying that the England team isn't weakened by injuries because those players are injured so we can't judge how good they are anyway? Strange logic.

[BamBam]

There isn't any logic to it mate, its just getting a bit desperate now to avoid any kind of pressure on Wales, and in the event of a Welsh victory be able to gloat as much as possible

[maestegmafia]

I don't think that's true about Lawes. He's probably been our most consistently outstanding player for 18 months now. Second row is the one position where our injuries have us looking really quite light.

I don't really see your point anyway? You're saying that the England team isn't weakened by injuries because those players are injured so we can't judge how good they are anyway? Strange logic.

How can that be strange logic.

If a player is playing you can judge him against another, if he has had constant injuries, it's hard to judge whether he has still got it.

Someone posted above that Dan Cole is apparently not the first choice anymore, because he has been injured, that Davy Wilson is now the best tighthead option england could pick if everyone is fit...


It's very confusing as you england fans change your mind to suit the point you're trying to prove.

[BamBam]

Dan Cole was out for over a year, and Wilson has performed superbly for that year

Lawes has been out for about 5 weeks, and was his usual excellent self up to then

Launchbury was playing until mid October, came back after the AIs and got injured again in December.

Attwood has at least had some gametime, Kruis has played about 70 mins total of international rugby

Its hardly the same thing, but you Welsh fans (see anyone can generalise) change the facts to "prove" your point

[LondonTiger]

Welsh fans are just fine, BamBam, so leave them out of it.

I assume a certain poster who used to send me hate mail is posting nonsense. Just ignore him and who knows, in the slight chance England actually win, then hopefully he will disappear again for as long as he did last time.

[Barney McGrew did it]

Maesteg - Wales are favourites to win, why so desperate? It's no shame to beat (or lose to) an England A.

[LondonTiger]

Jeez guys, stop trying to wind him up. You are getting as bad as he is.

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