Wales v England - 6 February 2015 - Match thread

[BamBam]

First topic message reminder :


Wales v England
6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off at 20.05

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)
AR1: Romain Poite (FFR)
AR2: Mathieu Raynal (FFR)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

Live on BBC1

Wales

01. Gethin Jenkins
02. Richard Hibbard
03. Samson Lee
04. Alun Wyn Jones
05. Jake Ball
06. Dan Lydiate
07. Sam Warburton (c)
08. Toby Faletau

09. Rhys Webb
10. Dan Biggar
11. George North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Scott Baldwin
17. Paul James
18. Aaron Jarvis
19. Luke Charteris
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Mike Phillips
22. Rhys Preistland
23. Liam Williams

England

15. Mike Brown
14. Anthony Watson
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Luther Burrell
11. Jonny May
10. George Ford
09. Ben Youngs  

01. Joe Marler
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Dan Cole
04. David Attwood
05. George Kruis
06. James Haskell
07. Chris Robshaw (captain)
08. Billy Vunipola

16. Tom Youngs
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Kieran Brookes
19. Tom Croft
20. Nick Easter
21. Richard Wigglesworth
22. Danny Cipriani
23. Billy Twelvetrees

[Scottrf]

I thought it were a poor decision to penalise Easter; there would be an extra 15 transgressions, or so, a game if you were to penalise that each time.

And incidents such as that always look worse on the slow-motion video replay (x5).

Still, didn't matter in the end.

The amount of TMOs was just ridiculous in general. Haskell was more shoulder height than at the base of the post, the Watson try was clearly a try without a replay. Ref should only be paid for the decisions he actually makes.

[Nachos Jones]

If it's any consolation to the Welsh amongst us, I thought you were really good at the pre game light display!

I thought attempts to wind up, gloat or personally attack were to be dealt with and bans handed out?

But not if you're Mod! Obvs

Or you could get a sense of humour.  It's called banter,  found at most rugby grounds around the country.

Banter and humour were ruled out on this site when power hungry Mods (not you) were given the power on this site.

[lostinwales]

Best players - Wales 1/2p Rees, Faletau (to an extent) Biggar (much better than Ford early on)

England - Watson, Haskell (took some big hits but never stopped) Kruis - hell all of them. May was a little quiet. Ford did fine in defense- no problems at all

The biggest worries for me was Kruis - who played really well, and Tom Youngs lineouts. TY did mess up badly picking the ball up at that ruck - but the lineouts were great.

[TJ]

Okay - George Ford man of the match?
Really? He was good....but MOM?
Not convinced - who do you think it should have been?

One of the forwards. robshaw? Haskell?

[Steve_rugby]

If it's any consolation to the Welsh amongst us, I thought you were really good at the pre game light display!

[Scottrf]

yes, but it could have done. England were 15-20 points better than Wales today without the home advantage

Behave.

[Gwlad]

If it's any consolation to the Welsh amongst us, I thought you were really good at the pre game light display!

I thought attempts to wind up, gloat or personally attack were to be dealt with and bans handed out?

But not if you're Mod! Obvs

Or you could get a sense of humour.  It's called banter,  found at most rugby grounds around the country.

Um, if you call that banter you should quit now

Clear attempt by a MOD to gloat and wind up QED double standard.

Will you be banning yourself or will someone else do it?

[No 7&1/2]

How is the obstruction rule normally applied here? Saw Edwards comments pre match re league blocking and in league the 'try' would have stood I believe as Mako wasn t directly behind him when receiving the ball and when the 'tackle' was made. Im completely in the dark here though!

[Scottrf]

Is this serious? Calling for someone to be banned for a clear inoffensive joke. Grow up.

[blackcanelion]

Enthralling game. I thought England were the better side in the end. Bullied wales up front. I can understand the Easter call (you do see similar calls made in internationals). I think the issue is timing, distance from the ball and the choice of the player with ball in hand. I'm not a fan of the TMO bringing up incidents. I'd rather the ref could review the play, based on a team challenge a la NFL. On another note I dislike the constant flopping (going in off the feet, delayed rolling away) at the ruck. It was a blight on much of the game.

[The Saint]

Just seen the news and it showed a replay RE obstruction. Easter clearly ran into contact before the ball had left No.21s hands, clear obstruction. As I said earlier I don't think it had any sort of effect so we should have played on. The laws are laws I guess, unless you're quinsfanforever and Nathan who seem to be rewriting the law book every week.

[Scottrf]

How is the obstruction rule normally applied here? Saw Edwards comments pre match re league blocking and in league the 'try' would have stood I believe as Mako wasn t directly behind him when receiving the ball and when the 'tackle' was made. Im completely in the dark here though!

10. 1.
b. Can't (EDIT: Intentionally) move or stand in front of the ball carrier.
c. Can't (EDIT: Intentionally) move or stand in a position that stops an opponent from making a tackle.

Other sections are irrelevant and I don't think he broke either of these because b. he was behind the ball carrier and c. the opponent wasn't in position to make a tackle.

[Nachos Jones]

By the way, Gloat and banter as much as you like Ozzy (without retribution) but when Ireland kick your behinds, please think of this when I gloat

[Ozzy3213]

If it's any consolation to the Welsh amongst us, I thought you were really good at the pre game light display!

I thought attempts to wind up, gloat or personally attack were to be dealt with and bans handed out?

But not if you're Mod! Obvs

Or you could get a sense of humour.  It's called banter,  found at most rugby grounds around the country.

Um, if you call that banter you should quit now

Clear attempt by a MOD to gloat and wind up QED double standard.

Will you be banning yourself or will someone else do it?

I'm clearly not posting as mod or it would have been in red. I've seen Saints report about me, no problem, have left it for another mod to deal with. If they deem that some very sensitive souls might have been upset by my words, I'll take my lumps, it's part of being a grown up.

[nathan]

Just seen the news and it showed a replay RE obstruction. Easter clearly ran into contact before the ball had left No.21s hands, clear obstruction. As I said earlier I don't think it had any sort of effect so we should have played on. The laws are laws I guess, unless you're quinsfanforever and Nathan who seem to be rewriting the law book every week.

Or the Saint who seems cry wolf all the time.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Most importantly Scott it has to be 'intentional'.

[Scottrf]

Most importantly Scott it has to be 'intentional'.

Yes, which I don't think was the case either.

[Ozzy3213]

By the way, Gloat and banter as much as you like Ozzy (without retribution) but when Ireland kick your behinds, please think of this when I gloat

Sure ill be sinking a few either way that day chap, and I'll go out ona limb now and say they'll be celebratory!

[Rugby Fan]

England did leave some points out there but, luckily for us, it didn't matter in the end. I suspect Wales would have scored more than we managed if they had enjoyed a similar period of dominance.

I was expecting a whistle on Easter's play when I saw it happening. On replay, it wasn't as obvious as I first thought, and it wouldn't have been a travesty if the try had stood. Similarly, no complaints here that it was overturned.

Wales were disappointing but they were always too close for comfort on the scoreboard. Just as in 2013, we didn't get many penalties in their half, so couldn't get the scoreboard ticking. As we tightened up our discipline, Wales did start infringing and that let us get ahead.

[Nachos Jones]

By the way, Gloat and banter as much as you like Ozzy (without retribution) but when Ireland kick your behinds, please think of this when I gloat

Sure ill be sinking a few either way that day chap, and I'll go out ona limb now and say they'll be celebratory!

I will raise one in your direction as well. Enjoy the win today and the destined loss against the future World champs IRELAND

[maestegmafia]

Well done England...!

Jesus Wales what an awful second half performance didn't do a thing right...!

Too livid at the Welsh team to say anymore....

[doctor_grey]

By the way, Gloat and banter as much as you like Ozzy (without retribution) but when Ireland kick your behinds, please think of this when I gloat

Sure ill be sinking a few either way that day chap, and I'll go out ona limb now and say they'll be celebratory!

I will raise one in your direction as well. Enjoy the win today and the destined loss against the future World champs IRELAND

But, but, but.....you won't have Ronan O'Gara to anchor the defense.

[Mad for Chelsea]

I thought the Easter call was borderline personally. By the letter of the law it's obstruction, but you see a lot of refs letting things go when they don't impact play (and indeed Garces seemed happy for scrums to carry on so long as the ball was playable, for instance), and I don't think Easter had any impact on play (Vunipola is a way away from him, Biggar wouldn't have been tackling him...). Fully understand the call though.

Wales once again showed a worrying lack of plan B, Davies is too good a footballer to be used only as a crash ball (and isn't a great crash ball option in any case). Wingers simply never allowed to get into the game at all, though North's attempt at tackling Joseph was pretty poor. Then again, May also got sucked in too easily on the Welsh try.

I think Haskell adds a different option in that backrow, and thought he had a good game today. Don't expect Lancaster to make many changes, if at all. Wilson to the bench if fit? Maybe Care too (his snap against a tiring Italian side should come in handy). Joseph was excellent, Burrell a bit more of a mixed bag, but it looks like a decent centre pairing. Ford and Joseph both stood up well in defence, so nowt to worry about there.

[Scottrf]

By the letter of the law it's obstruction,

No it's not.

[No 7&1/2]

I dont know re obstruction then. Think it comes down to whether in front means ahead of the player or directly ahead if that makes sense?

[Hammersmith harrier]

The problem for the Welsh is they seem to think they'll win just because they have a big backline, their actual physicality is quite poor and their pack is too often overpowered to give them the ball in any case.

[nathan]

Didn't they have a heavier pack?

[Nachos Jones]

I am away, have a night there lads

[Hammersmith harrier]

By the letter of the law it's obstruction,

No it's not.

I don't think you should be able to use the TMO that far back anyway, had the Welsh infringed at the breakdown instead of Attwood going over for a try it would have been an English penalty. The TMO should be used for the phase of play leading to the try and and nothing more, it should not be a safety net for referees who have no conviction in their decisions.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Didn't they have a heavier pack?

The point being what?

Burrell is heavier than Tuilagi but he definitely is not as powerful nor is Jenkins as good a scrummager as Dan Cole.

[Poorfour]

I thought calling Easter for obstruction was probably reasonable, but on the replay it was also very clear that he was offering himself for the pass and Ford only decided not to give it after contact was made. It could just as easily have been a penalty to England for a tackle without the ball, but Easter overrunning Ford earned Wales the benefit of the doubt.

Ultimately it didn't affect the result. If England can build on this, they will be in very good shape come the RWC. I had my concerns about whether Joseph was ready, but he has dispelled my doubts. On today's evidence, I'd let him keep the shirt even if Manu were fit.

[The Saint]

Just seen the news and it showed a replay RE obstruction. Easter clearly ran into contact before the ball had left No.21s hands, clear obstruction. As I said earlier I don't think it had any sort of effect so we should have played on. The laws are laws I guess, unless you're quinsfanforever and Nathan who seem to be rewriting the law book every week.

Or the Saint who seems cry wolf all the time.

Another yawn comment. Every match thread I see you on you're blaming the ref. Both Scarlets vs Tigers games you were out in full force blaming the ref. So perhaps it's not The Saint who is crying wolf? Just a thought.

[Exiledinborders]

I thought England's only hope was that Wales stuck to Gatlandball with Jamie Roberts and Jonathan Davies trucking the ball up predictably. What I was not epecting is that Wales would be so deprived of ball that the tactics of the backs was irrelevent.

To be fair if Roberts and Davies ever got the ball they did follow Lord Melchett's secret plan i.e. run very slowly and very straight at the opposition.

[Cardiff Dave]

If it's any consolation to the Welsh amongst us, I thought you were really good at the pre game light display!

I thought attempts to wind up, gloat or personally attack were to be dealt with and bans handed out?

If that's the case then i'm done for.

[The Saint]

If it's any consolation to the Welsh amongst us, I thought you were really good at the pre game light display!

I thought attempts to wind up, gloat or personally attack were to be dealt with and bans handed out?

But not if you're Mod! Obvs

Or you could get a sense of humour.  It's called banter,  found at most rugby grounds around the country.

Um, if you call that banter you should quit now

Clear attempt by a MOD to gloat and wind up QED double standard.

Will you be banning yourself or will someone else do it?

I'm clearly not posting as mod or it would have been in red.   I've seen Saints report about me, no problem, have left it for another mod to deal with.  If they deem that some very sensitive souls might have been upset by my words, I'll take my lumps, it's part of being a grown up.

Ozzy I thought the pre-match light display was very good and added to the build-up. However when multiple posters believe a mod is posting comments trying to wind up opposition fans then I believe the moderation team should look into it. Not only that but you've followed it up with this garbage. Firstly, discussing moderation issues on the forum "Saints report" and secondly, "it's part of being a grown up" - comments intended to stir the pot by having other posters continue with their stupid drivel against me and suggesting these welsh posters aren't being grown up; all because they questioned a moderator over his comments after warnings by the moderation team? I thought you mods were 'promoted' into these positions on good behaviour, good contributions, etc.

[TightHEAD]

The Welsh lads looked a bit fat to be honest, well played england not a classic but it will do.

[dummy_half]

I'd have been well narked had England blown it in the last few minutes. Three or 4 good chances to put the game to bed. The call against Easter was harsh but justifiable - most refs would have let it slide, as Biggar initiated the contact, but I actually want RU refs to be a bit harsher on this sort of obstruction, as there are other teams (no names, but wear green and gold) that push the margins much further...

Haskell played well but really should have been under the posts. Clearly not used to that sort of run in, as he showed a lack of awareness of where he was and of the defenders.

Also the half chance when Burrell broke and couldn't quite find Mike Brown with the pass.

Overall, I don't think the scoreline flattered us at all on the strength of the 2nd half. Wales hardly got a touch, and I really feel sorry for 1/2p that he puts so much in when several of his team mates simply don't match his level of commitment.

[Hammersmith harrier]

You can instantly tell who the resident cry babies are on here, maybe developing a sense of humour is more pertinent than whinging about a harmless comment.

[Cardiff Dave]

Well done England...!

Jesus Wales what an awful second half performance didn't do a thing right...!

Too livid at the Welsh team to say anymore....

Agreed.
Best team won etc. Surprised Gatland mentioned a Rhys Webb box kick in his post match interview. There we are.

[hugehandoff]

Well done boys on a fantastic victory!  A great comeback in the second half in which our forwards took the game by the scruff of the neck. The back row especially got better and as usual it was up front that the game was won. Overall I was impressed with the scrummaging, lineouts and the defence. Marler, Hartley, Attwood were all really impressive. Haskell went well and after a poor first half I thought Billy got better. Captain Robshaw put in another hard working shift without anything spectacular. Youngs and Ford pretty effective. Also impressed with JJ who looked ready for a decent run at test level. He his certainly making a case to be first choice 13. May had a shocking start and gave away the 10 point lead for Wales and he is under pressure. Brown not bad at all and Watson looked lively.

Poor subs again which appear to be done by rote. Mako immediately making the scrums less steady and I think another 10 minutes for Marler would be best. Tom Youngs at least threw well and 36 had a good cameo.

But I cannot believe how poor Wales were. Not much threat and no attempt to take the game to England. They appear to just want to defend and then wait for either an England mistake or a turnover to attack.

But I also don't agree with making too much out of the missing players as we did not have a settled best XV anyway. The only players missing who clearly are better than those who started tonight are Lawes over Kruis and Morgan over Billy. Corbs I think can return to starting loosehead as he can be world class but Marler is playing to a very  high standard. After tonight I am not sure about May, but maybe he deserves another go? I still want to see Wade given a chance.

Well done again and unlucky Wales. Wales are still a strong team, but they need to back themselves and take a few more chances. And the stadium prior to the start was awesome.

[Exiledinborders]

Okay - George Ford man of the match?
Really? He was good....but MOM?
Not convinced - who do you think it should have been?

One of the forwards.  robshaw?  Haskell?

I don't often agree with you but on this occassion you are right. Haskell for me.

[TightHEAD]

If england ever gets all their players fit at the same time SL will have to make some very tough calls for the RWC.

[lostinwales]

yes, but it could have done. England were 15-20 points better than Wales today without the home advantage

Behave.

But on the 2nd half performance they were. Wales were (generally) toothless. England were dangerous. How many times did Wales get close to scoring a try? once. Was a lovely try yes, but that was it. England got 2 plus one disallowed and one with the post as an extra defender. You could say it was disappointing that England just seemed happy to sit and defend for such a big period in the 2nd half, but once they had the lead you could feel that they really had Wales' number.

The only way it looked like Wales would score by that point was 1/2p and his boot.

[lostinwales]

Oh and Samson Lee. He is a young guy, and should get a lot better (just see how Marler has moved on from where he was when he started) but he really had a night to forget.

[Cardiff Dave]

If it's any consolation to the Welsh amongst us, I thought you were really good at the pre game light display!

I thought attempts to wind up, gloat or personally attack were to be dealt with and bans handed out?

But not if you're Mod! Obvs

Or you could get a sense of humour.  It's called banter,  found at most rugby grounds around the country.

Um, if you call that banter you should quit now

Clear attempt by a MOD to gloat and wind up QED double standard.

Will you be banning yourself or will someone else do it?

Lighten up   FFS.

[The Saint]

Lighten up   FFS.

Dave to be fair, they are going by exactly what was said here*. Others are not, so I wonder if the rules still stand.

*https://www.606v2.com/t57594-please-read-6-nations-threads-on-v2-forum

[TightHEAD]

For the last few years I thought Adam Jones was the linch pin for Wales.


I've said it many times before you show me a world class team or a team with the potential to be world class and I'll show you a very very good tighthead prop!

[dummy_half]

Okay - George Ford man of the match?
Really? He was good....but MOM?
Not convinced - who do you think it should have been?

One of the forwards.  robshaw?  Haskell?

I don't often agree with you but on this occassion you are right. Haskell for me.

Haskell certainly had his good moments, but should have been in for his try. At his size and on the run, he should not have been stopped.
Robshaw was just typical of him - never has a bad game and seems to be involved in everything - just lacks that bit of flair in open field play that would take him to the really world class level.
Thought Attwood was very good as well. Offered good go forwards in the tight, and did his jobs in the line-out and mauls. Indeed, other than a couple of wobbly throws from Hartley the set pieces went really well for a pack that had only 2 or 3 first choice members there (HArtley, Robshaw and perhaps Cole).

Of the backs, I thought Joseph and Watson had better games than Ford, who did quite a lot of good things but a few not so good (charge downs in particular). Was impressed though with how our relatively lightweight back division stood up to wales when they had the ball.

[quinsforever]

I dont know re obstruction then. Think it comes down to whether in front means ahead of the player or directly ahead if that makes sense?

he (Easter) was neither in front of the ball, nor in front of the player, not did he prevent a tackle being made (mako was running a different line and got tackled on the gain line.

utterly special decision.

eramuffs should be complulsory for refs at all 6N matches, but obviously not at RWC

[Rugby Fan]

Guardian player ratings:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/feb/06/wales-england-player-ratings-six-nations

No-one on either side rated less than a five but 18 players are rated six. Guardian gives both Ford and Billy V an eight.

[Sponsored content]