6N Round 2: Scotland v Wales, 15 February

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SCOTLAND v WALES
Sunday 15 February 2015
KO 15:00 (GMT)
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC1

Referee: Glen Jackson (NZR)
AR1: George Clancy (IRFU)
AR2: Dudley Phillips (IRFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

A. Teams:

1. SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors);
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors);
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors);
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors);
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby);
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors);
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester);

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby);
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby);
3 Geoff Cross (London Irish);
4 Richie Gray (Castres);
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors);
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors),
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish);
8 Johnnie Beattie (Castres);

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors);
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors);
18 Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors);
19 Jim Hamilton (Saracens);
20 Alasdair Strokosch (USA Perpignan);
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby);
22 Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby);
23 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby);

2. WALES

15 Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)
14 Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues)
13 Jonathan Davies (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
12 Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro)
11 Liam Williams (Scarlets)
10 Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
09 Rhys Webb (Ospreys)

01 Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues)
02 Richard Hibbard (Gloucester)
03 Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys)
04 Jake Ball (Scarlets)
05 Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys)
06 Dan Lydiate (Ospreys)
07 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, CAPT)
08 Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)

16 Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)
17 Paul James (Bath Rugby)
18 Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues)
19 Luke Charteris (Racing Metro)
20 Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)
21 Mike Phillips (Racing Metro)
22 Rhys Priestland (Scarlets)
23 Scott Williams (Scarlets)

B. Form (last 4 games):

1. SCOTLAND

07/02/15 - France 15 - 8 Scotland

22/11/14 - Scotland 37 - 12 Tonga

15/11/14 - Scotland 16 - 24 New Zealand

08/11/14 - Scotland 41 - 31 Argentina

2. WALES

06/02/15 - Wales 16 - 21 England

29/11/14 - Wales 12 - 6 South Africa

22/11/14 - Wales 16 - 34 New Zealand

15/11/14  - Wales 17 - 13 Fiji

C. Head to Head:

120 Played 120

48 Wins 69

69 Losses 48

3 Draws 3

180 Tries 227

80 Conversions 112

130 Penalties 142

30 Drop Goals 25

1,204 Points 1,578

GavinDragon wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:That kind of clear out happens all the time, but that is a particularly bad example of it and could lead to shoulder/neck/back injuries.

The problem is that it is an incredibly strong ruck position to get into - that's why people do it - so your only choices are:

A - Run full steam into them with your shoulder and smash them down (how can you get your arms round them then?)

or

B - Do a judo style throw of them, getting your arm round their leg or arm and levering them away.


Jenkins being an 18st prop looking at a 14 stone fullback obviously favoured the former.

completely agree with this...when you bridge the ball that low as a player you know the dangers....many moons ago he would have had 6 studs down his back

I'm not sure if you took from my post that I was in favour of what Jenkins did - I certainly am not, and think it is as dangerous as taking someone out in the air. Problem is it is less obvious to spot.

All I was saying was that it is now part of the game due to the defending technique at rucks, and that it happens quite often now across the game.

Bakkies Botha made a career out of those kind of clear outs!

GLove39 wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:

GLove39 wrote:Speaking of a sad day for the game in general, players firing themselves off their feet into rucks with no arms or regard for any players safety needs to be addressed & urgently.

What this clip from the Wales game, for a 'perfect' example https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/567051677396897792

What in the name of actual Frak is Jenkins playing at??? It's sickening to watch, the potential for serious injury so high. Its a wonder Hogg walked away & played on.  

I want to see refs get a whole lot stricter on that.

Seen that at the time, I thought it warranted a penalty and possibly a yellow.

Definite yellow for me. A complete no arms shoulder charge into an opponent in open play would surely be punished with one. This situation is far worse, players are so vulnerable when bridging a ruck like that. There's nothing they can do to protect themselves.

Disgusting.

And we have to read Gatland saying that he thought the Finn Russell incident merited a red card. Pathetic.

GavinDragon wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:That kind of clear out happens all the time, but that is a particularly bad example of it and could lead to shoulder/neck/back injuries.

The problem is that it is an incredibly strong ruck position to get into - that's why people do it - so your only choices are:

A - Run full steam into them with your shoulder and smash them down (how can you get your arms round them then?)

or

B - Do a judo style throw of them, getting your arm round their leg or arm and levering them away.


Jenkins being an 18st prop looking at a 14 stone fullback obviously favoured the former.

completely agree with this...when you bridge the ball that low as a player you know the dangers....many moons ago he would have had 6 studs down his back

Oh right, so if Hogg was injured he would only have himself to blame.

I know it's currently part of the game, but in no way does that make it right. For the player welfare & longevity etc we really need to find a way of eliminating that sort of play.

George Carlin wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:

GLove39 wrote:Speaking of a sad day for the game in general, players firing themselves off their feet into rucks with no arms or regard for any players safety needs to be addressed & urgently.

What this clip from the Wales game, for a 'perfect' example https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/567051677396897792

What in the name of actual Frak is Jenkins playing at??? It's sickening to watch, the potential for serious injury so high. Its a wonder Hogg walked away & played on.  

I want to see refs get a whole lot stricter on that.

Seen that at the time, I thought it warranted a penalty and possibly a yellow.

Definite yellow for me. A complete no arms shoulder charge into an opponent in open play would surely be punished with one. This situation is far worse, players are so vulnerable when bridging a ruck like that. There's nothing they can do to protect themselves.

Disgusting.

And we have to read Gatland saying that he thought the Finn Russell incident merited a red card. Pathetic.

I must say, whilst it was never a red card in my book, I did worry that Russell may have seen red at the time in a Payne-esque decision. I also thought JD2 was a bit unlucky, looked to me like Lamont may have helped him on his way a bit.

Still, I remember the Jenkins clear-out and it was a no arms charge. I called it at the time, and it went unpunished. Certainly a penalty.

Gatland did also have the decency to report back that the Welsh players felt that was the best Scotland side they have faced, which fills me with warmth and happiness.

Bad luck, Scotland. It's good to see some real promise in that team.

In many ways having won may be a bad thing for us, an excuse for the coaching team not fundamentally to reassess our approach, which is badly needed. At least we seem to have a decent 10 after a few years of uncertainty.

Theres a lot of bitter people on here, its a real shame.

My opinions:

Wales werent great but should have had that game sewn up by 60minutes.

Scotland created a lot again, but couldnt finish.

Wales were a lot better competing for the high ball, and the kick chase game was better. Wales were a lot more powerful throughout the team I thought. Scotland were a lot more inventive in attack at times, just lacked the ability to see numbers out wide when it was on and couldnt stick passes to hands when they needed to.

Russell on Biggar was a definite yellow card, he knew what he was doing and didn't make any real effort to get out of the way, he was in a good position to compete, had he competed it may not have been a penalty even. Good to see biggar get up and carry on.

JD on Beattie was a penalty, I can understand why the yellow was given after the previous yellow.

Both teams extremely lucky not to be yellow carded for repeated infringements in their 22s.

Webb on SHC was high, but SHC was starting to go down as he hit him and JD2 was right there, the ball fell forward and bounced backwards to my eyes.

JD2 ran a very clever support line for Webb's try, he wasnt in front of the ball and didnt change his line (even if he had done it doesnt matter, its not his duty to get out of the way, hes running a support line) so I have no idea why people are calling that illegal?

We see clearouts like that in every game, I agree its dodgy but no different to any other game.

Ref was pretty poor overall, but I think both sides had chances to put the match to bed (Wales) or win (Scotland) despite him and he cant be blmaed for the outcome of the match.

Welsh team thoughts:

Jenkins was poor in the tight again, 2 games in a row. I'd give him 1 more to see how he goes, he was good in the loose.
Hibbard again, nothing special, some decent carries.
Jarvis poor throughout.
AWJ - everywhere.
Ball - big and physical, like Hibbard I want to see him impact more in the tight exchanges, some decent carries but nothing spectacular.
Lydiate - some decent tackles but useless ball in hand (the difference when Tips came on was visibile from the get go)
Warbs - not great, thought he looked better paired with Tips.
Faletau - good game overall, hes saving us at the back of that scrum more often than not.
Webb - someone tell him to stop trying to be like mike, hes lost his speed of execution (clearly down to the gameplan).
Biggar - everything we need him to be again imo.
Cuthbert - caught behind the gain line a number of times (as hes been forthe blues this season) but I thought he was good under the high ball when called upon.
Roberts - the battering ram we need in midfield, nothign spectacular but industrious and good defence in the main.
JD2 - anonymous and got lucky for the try, I'd expect any internationa lcentre to have stopped him first up. Id replace with Scott Williams.
Liam Williams - great support and the ability to keep play alive. Without him we lack any sort of flair currently.
Halfpenny - good kicking, good tackling, nothing much else again.

I'd still like to see Rob Evans, Kristian Dacey and Gareth Anscombe on the bench. Scott Williams to start, Tips to start, Liam to stay on one wing and North to replace Cuthbert (who goes to the bench for the last 10 minuntes where I think he could be devastating from deep counters).

How did Scotland get that close? Based on possession and territory Wales should have been comfortable winners, its worrying that they were not!

Some strange ref calls for foul play. Yellow was the right call for Russell, although Liam Williams was cited for an almost identical hit on Cuthbert and got a retrospective red. JD2 was not even a penalty, he was challenging for the ball and Lamont pushed him into Beattie. Webb's so called high tackle was on a player ducking under the tackle so should not have been a penalty, mind you didn't look forward either! Jenkins clear out on Hogg looked brutal but whilst I think that should be banned, it's not. Some theatrical diving by Webb and Williams early in the first half should have been punished, its getting like wendyball!

Changes? I would have Liam Williams at 15 against France, Halfpenny is not creative enough in attack at 15 so play him with North on the wing. JD2 has hardly played this season but took his try really well and showed just how quick he is in the run up to Webb's try so he stays. Webb is becoming a concern, if Gareth Davies was fit I would start him, but he is not so Webb hangs on. Biggar showed what we already knew, he looks comfortable behind a winning pack but don't expect him to create too much. Up front, Jenkins was far better than against England but must still be under pressure from James and young Evans. Lee must come back and keep Andrews out of the 22, Hibbard again was poor in the set piece, Owens looked very good against Connaught, if he goes well against Munster this weekend I would start him. Maybe a case for swapping Ball with Charteris, but Ball really puts a shift in the tight so he stays. No change with AWJ and the back row staying.

Seagultaf wrote:How did Scotland get that close? Based on possession and territory Wales should have been comfortable winners, its worrying that they were not!

I thought so too Mr Taf but apparently the official Accenture stats have it at:
Scotland 47% Possession 53% Wales
Scotland 49% Territory 51% Wales

George Carlin wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:How did Scotland get that close? Based on possession and territory Wales should have been comfortable winners, its worrying that they were not!

I thought so too Mr Taf but apparently the official Accenture stats have it at:
Scotland 47% Possession 53% Wales
Scotland 49% Territory 51% Wales

The stats were very much in Wales' favour until the final 10 minutes when the numbers very much moved upwards for Scotland (with the exception of the Welsh penalty count).

To be fair, Wales were protecting their lead at that stage, whilst Scotland turned up the heat in order to chase the game. I do think there's something up with the Welsh conditioning. That's two matches where Wales have faded quite badly as the game has gone on.

"Webb's so called high tackle was on a player ducking under the tackle so should not have been a penalty"

WOW!!!!!

The fact he ducked a small amount and the arm hit his forhead would have meant had he not ducked it would have smashed him straight in the face,

It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

Riskysports wrote:It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

Reminds me a bit of the Liam Williams tackle a while back against an NH side where he committed an illegal tackle and the ref effectively gave a penalty try based on a "but for" test. Would the attacker have scored but for the defender being there at all (i.e. you discount the defender completely as the intervention was illegal)? I think the answer is yes, as I didn't see anyone else covering.

Different type of tackle but a similar analysis.

Still, what's done is done. Plenty to be angry about without worrying about Jackson's interpretation of the game. Finn Russell's botched touchfinder had the red mist going for me. Utterly incompetent. Dunbar's botched pass to Bennett blowing a try in the first half was also pretty dreadful. Both completely unforced errors.

Riskysports wrote:"Webb's so called high tackle was on a player ducking under the tackle so should not have been a penalty"

WOW!!!!!

The fact he ducked a small amount and the arm hit his forhead would have meant had he not ducked it would have smashed him straight in the face,

It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

If a player ducks under the tackle it's impossible to call a high tackle, no way of knowing where the hit was intended, IMO should not have been a penalty.

Maybe players duck because that are about to get closelined!

Riskysports wrote:"Webb's so called high tackle was on a player ducking under the tackle so should not have been a penalty"

WOW!!!!!

The fact he ducked a small amount and the arm hit his forhead would have meant had he not ducked it would have smashed him straight in the face,

It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

The tackle is not even noteworthy

The Scottish player's milking of the 'tackle' was however, first class.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Maybe players duck because that are about to get closelined!

It's certainly one way of looking at it, in this instance though it looked to me that Webb came in high to get man and ball and the Scottish player ducked under the tackle (as did Joseph in the Wales England game).

Gwlad wrote:

Riskysports wrote:"Webb's so called high tackle was on a player ducking under the tackle so should not have been a penalty"

WOW!!!!!

The fact he ducked a small amount and the arm hit his forhead would have meant had he not ducked it would have smashed him straight in the face,

It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

The tackle is not even noteworthy

The Scottish player's milking of the 'tackle' was however, first class.

Not as bad as Webb's theatrical dive for the penalty for off side in the ruck in the first half, that was embarrassing!

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Riskysports wrote:It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

Reminds me a bit of the Liam Williams tackle a while back against an NH side where he committed an illegal tackle and the ref effectively gave a penalty try based on a "but for" test. Would the attacker have scored but for the defender being there at all (i.e. you discount the defender completely as the intervention was illegal)? I think the answer is yes, as I didn't see anyone else covering.

Different type of tackle but a similar analysis.

Still, what's done is done. Plenty to be angry about without worrying about Jackson's interpretation of the game. Finn Russell's botched touchfinder had the red mist going for me. Utterly incompetent. Dunbar's botched pass to Bennett blowing a try in the first half was also pretty dreadful. Both completely unforced errors.

I have been watching and playing Rugby for 50 years and that was the first and only time I have heard the "but for" test applied. Any one know of any other examples?

Gwlad wrote:

Riskysports wrote:"Webb's so called high tackle was on a player ducking under the tackle so should not have been a penalty"

WOW!!!!!

The fact he ducked a small amount and the arm hit his forhead would have meant had he not ducked it would have smashed him straight in the face,

It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

The tackle is not even noteworthy

The Scottish player's milking of the 'tackle' was however, first class.

The same player who's since developed mild symptoms of a delayed concussion. Wonder what caused that...

Gwlad wrote:

Riskysports wrote:"Webb's so called high tackle was on a player ducking under the tackle so should not have been a penalty"

WOW!!!!!

The fact he ducked a small amount and the arm hit his forhead would have meant had he not ducked it would have smashed him straight in the face,

It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

The tackle is not even noteworthy

The Scottish player's milking of the 'tackle' was however, first class.

I didn't see SHC milking it. Hard hit to the head and he is now having to go through concussion protocol as was confirmed he has suffered delayed concussion.
Dangerous tackle by Webb and should be cited for it, he knew fine well what he was doing!

Seagultaf wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Riskysports wrote:"Webb's so called high tackle was on a player ducking under the tackle so should not have been a penalty"

WOW!!!!!

The fact he ducked a small amount and the arm hit his forhead would have meant had he not ducked it would have smashed him straight in the face,

It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

The tackle is not even noteworthy

The Scottish player's milking of the 'tackle' was however, first class.

Not as bad as Webb's theatrical dive for the penalty for off side in the ruck in the first half, that was embarrassing!

God its sad, gone are the days when we could ridicule footballers for dives and acting. I also thought Lamonts faux 'taken in the air' fall was hilarious. He must have been about 14mm off the air when JD2 hit him yet he ended up on his back , arms akimbo looking like he had just fallen to earth

Majestic83 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Riskysports wrote:"Webb's so called high tackle was on a player ducking under the tackle so should not have been a penalty"

WOW!!!!!

The fact he ducked a small amount and the arm hit his forhead would have meant had he not ducked it would have smashed him straight in the face,

It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

The tackle is not even noteworthy

The Scottish player's milking of the 'tackle' was however, first class.

I didn't see SHC milking it. Hard hit to the head and he is now having to go through concussion protocol as was confirmed he has suffered delayed concussion.
Dangerous tackle by Webb and should be cited for it, he knew fine well what he was doing!

Yes i am sure in Scotland they didn't even transmit the milking, it was the only opportunity Scotland capitalized on all afternoon.

Gwlad wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Riskysports wrote:"Webb's so called high tackle was on a player ducking under the tackle so should not have been a penalty"

WOW!!!!!

The fact he ducked a small amount and the arm hit his forhead would have meant had he not ducked it would have smashed him straight in the face,

It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

The tackle is not even noteworthy

The Scottish player's milking of the 'tackle' was however, first class.

I didn't see SHC milking it. Hard hit to the head and he is now having to go through concussion protocol as was confirmed he has suffered delayed concussion.
Dangerous tackle by Webb and should be cited for it, he knew fine well what he was doing!

Yes i am sure in Scotland they didn't even transmit the milking, it was the only opportunity Scotland capitalized on all afternoon.

You been on the sauce this afternoon??

Seagultaf wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Riskysports wrote:It was a penalty try - 100% as the ref thought it was a penalty

Reminds me a bit of the Liam Williams tackle a while back against an NH side where he committed an illegal tackle and the ref effectively gave a penalty try based on a "but for" test. Would the attacker have scored but for the defender being there at all (i.e. you discount the defender completely as the intervention was illegal)? I think the answer is yes, as I didn't see anyone else covering.

Different type of tackle but a similar analysis.

Still, what's done is done. Plenty to be angry about without worrying about Jackson's interpretation of the game. Finn Russell's botched touchfinder had the red mist going for me. Utterly incompetent. Dunbar's botched pass to Bennett blowing a try in the first half was also pretty dreadful. Both completely unforced errors.

I have been watching and playing Rugby for 50 years and that was the first and only time I have heard the "but for" test applied. Any one know of any other examples?

Every single penalty try in the history of the game I suppose. "But for" the foul play would a try have been scored is pretty much always the question? The reason it becomes so stark when it's a one on one is that you have to discount whether a legitimate tackle could have stopped the try (i.e. in the Webb case he could easily have saved the try with a legitimate tackle on H-C, but instead swung his arm, and in that case I think you have to treat the incident as if the defender wasn't there).

Penalty tries as usually given for scrums and rolling mauls. Incidents of an illegal tackle stopping a sure try are fairly rare.

The high tackle from Webb was definitely a penalty, and a yellow card, but Biggar I think was coming back and seen as the Scottish player has had to slow down to step inside Webb I don't think you can say 100% he was going to score. And seen as we are playing this game, it should have been a Welsh penalty for the Scots winger pulling and pushing Cuthbert back as Hogg made the original break.

JDizzle wrote:The high tackle from Webb was definitely a penalty, and a yellow card, but Biggar I think was coming back and seen as the Scottish player has had to slow down to step inside Webb I don't think you can say 100% he was going to score. And seen as we are playing this game, it should have been a Welsh penalty for the Scots winger pulling and pushing Cuthbert back as Hogg made the original break.

Is taking Cuthbert out of the game really detrimental to Wales??

funnyExiledScot wrote:

JDizzle wrote:The high tackle from Webb was definitely a penalty, and a yellow card, but Biggar I think was coming back and seen as the Scottish player has had to slow down to step inside Webb I don't think you can say 100% he was going to score. And seen as we are playing this game, it should have been a Welsh penalty for the Scots winger pulling and pushing Cuthbert back as Hogg made the original break.

Is taking Cuthbert out of the game really detrimental to Wales??

Haha, now that is a different argument all together!

George Carlin wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:

GLove39 wrote:Speaking of a sad day for the game in general, players firing themselves off their feet into rucks with no arms or regard for any players safety needs to be addressed & urgently.

What this clip from the Wales game, for a 'perfect' example https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/567051677396897792

What in the name of actual Frak is Jenkins playing at??? It's sickening to watch, the potential for serious injury so high. Its a wonder Hogg walked away & played on.  

I want to see refs get a whole lot stricter on that.

Seen that at the time, I thought it warranted a penalty and possibly a yellow.

Definite yellow for me. A complete no arms shoulder charge into an opponent in open play would surely be punished with one. This situation is far worse, players are so vulnerable when bridging a ruck like that. There's nothing they can do to protect themselves.

Disgusting.

And we have to read Gatland saying that he thought the Finn Russell incident merited a red card. Pathetic.

I thought what Gatland said was pretty fair, in that he initially thought it was a red but even said he was looking at it from a Welsh point of view. At the end of the day, he is asked a question about it and answers it honestly.

"JD2 ran a very clever support line for Webb's try, he wasnt in front of the ball and didnt change his line (even if he had done it doesnt matter, its not his duty to get out of the way, hes running a support line) so I have no idea why people are calling that illegal?"

Not illegal but definitely blocking. No penalty.

TJ wrote:"JD2 ran a very clever support line for Webb's try, he wasnt in front of the ball and didnt change his line (even if he had done it doesnt matter, its not his duty to get out of the way, hes running a support line) so I have no idea why people are calling that illegal?"

Not illegal but definitely blocking. No penalty.  

Actually TJ, someone posted a screengrab on a another thread and it clearly shows JD2 in front of Webb

https://servimg.com/view/17481498/6

Ah - if he is infront then he is illegal is he not?. Didn't look like it to me at the time. the scot should however have pushed into him not tackled him but pushed him into the winger

cakeordeath wrote:

TJ wrote:"JD2 ran a very clever support line for Webb's try, he wasnt in front of the ball and didnt change his line (even if he had done it doesnt matter, its not his duty to get out of the way, hes running a support line) so I have no idea why people are calling that illegal?"

Not illegal but definitely blocking. No penalty.  

Actually TJ, someone posted a screengrab on a another thread and it clearly shows JD2 in front of Webb

Yes. I thought at the time it was perfectly fine. I saw it again tonight and JD was a good bit in front of the ball carrier so it should have been a penalty to Scotland.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm - certainly didn't look like obstruction at the time.

Any way - lets be clear - we lost because we didn't take our chances - 3 times Wales made a goalline stand IIRC and we gave them a soft try. Thats why we lost.

I hope the Scottish team forget this game and concentrate on improving for the next game, Wales exposed their lack of catching the ball out of the air, against Ireland and England they will lose again if they do not address this issue, maybe they should look for a FB that attacks the ball (and tackle) and stick Hogg at 10 where the back row can protect him.

Scotland have got to get rid of Hamilton he is such a liability he seems to be more interested in foul play and not the team.

cakeordeath wrote:https://servimg.com/view/17481498/6

JD is behind the ball-carrier. What's the problem?

samuraidragon wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:https://servimg.com/view/17481498/6

JD is behind the ball-carrier. What's the problem?

What - unless I have the wrong person, it quite clearly shows he is about 2 yards ahead of the ball carrier!

JD is the one in the grey scrum cap on the Scottish 10m line. The ball carrier is the one outside him, about 2 yards behind.

Maybe only 1 yard.

thomh wrote:Maybe only 1 yard.

You're right. I thought Webb was the ball-carrier. Apologies.

When Scotland scored that last try of the game, and that fight broke out on the touch line why did Glen Jackson not blow for time out. That is what i don't understand.

In a sea of complaints, I'm yet to see anybody mention the blatant high tackle on Visser by Faletau just before Wales stole the ball to run in their first try.

Here's the highlight video. The tackle's at 4.22



That said, I've felt bitter for two days now. I should probably try to forget about it...

That was a bit of a closeline, but I blame Lamont for that try as much as anyone - a man of his experience should know that when you are down to 14 men you shouldn't be forcing offloads. We did well to gain possession then and should have held onto the ball. Instead he threw a stupid offload and we were turned over, ultimately leading to a score.

Yes, it doesn't excuse all the mistakes we made (and there were plenty). I completely accept that it's our own fault we didn't win the game despite the ref's calls, but there's little doubt that a couple more correct calls would have seen Scotland win the game.

Anyway, I really hate coming away from a game complaining about decisions - I don't think I've ever done it so much. There's plenty to improve upon and that's where the focus needs to be.

That's a penalty for sure and depending on the Ref's mood a potential yellow.

the_oncoming_storm wrote:In a sea of complaints, I'm yet to see anybody mention the blatant high tackle on Visser by Faletau just before Wales stole the ball to run in their first try.

Here's the highlight video. The tackle's at 4.22



That said, I've felt bitter for two days now. I should probably try to forget about it...

Yes, we were sitting behind that tryline and it was high and illegal. However when the Welsh gather the ball and start their attack the telling comment is from the commentator, "Cuthbert runs straight through Visser" .

Just a whole litany of errors by Jackson and the touch judges (touch judge should have seen Davies running ahead of the ball carrier, very obvious) ,unacceptable at any level of rugby.

jimbopip wrote:Yes, we were sitting behind that tryline and it was high and illegal. However when the Welsh gather the ball and start their attack the telling comment is from the commentator, "Cuthbert runs straight through Visser".

Visser had another ineffective afternoon, I'm not going to say otherwise. Lamont was also dreadful, and had done nothing really to earn the start in the first place.

I'd put Visser on last chance saloon against Italy, and start Fife against Italy on the right wing (he's decent under the high ball for a start). As soon as Maitland is fit he should be given another chance, on the right wing. As soon as Seymour is fit, he should go onto the left wing. He only defence of Visser and Lamont in the Wales game is that we didn't create a single chance for them - the ball was kept painfully narrow at times.

Lamont should go back to Glasgow where he can perfect the art of being a "defensive winger", making generally bad judgement calls, demonstrating poor handlings skills and showing no pace whatsoever, but crucially being passionate about it. He probably won't get a game because of Lee Jones.

majesticimperialman wrote:When Scotland scored that last try of the game, and that fight broke out on the touch line why did Glen Jackson not blow for time out. That is what i don't understand.

He did. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b052vkkq/six-nations-rugby-2015-scotland-v-wales#group=p02j4np8

2:16:53 on the video clock.