6N Round 2: Scotland v Wales, 15 February

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SCOTLAND v WALES
Sunday 15 February 2015
KO 15:00 (GMT)
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC1

Referee: Glen Jackson (NZR)
AR1: George Clancy (IRFU)
AR2: Dudley Phillips (IRFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

A. Teams:

1. SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors);
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors);
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors);
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors);
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby);
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors);
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester);

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby);
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby);
3 Geoff Cross (London Irish);
4 Richie Gray (Castres);
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors);
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors),
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish);
8 Johnnie Beattie (Castres);

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors);
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors);
18 Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors);
19 Jim Hamilton (Saracens);
20 Alasdair Strokosch (USA Perpignan);
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby);
22 Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby);
23 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby);

2. WALES

15 Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)
14 Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues)
13 Jonathan Davies (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
12 Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro)
11 Liam Williams (Scarlets)
10 Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
09 Rhys Webb (Ospreys)

01 Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues)
02 Richard Hibbard (Gloucester)
03 Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys)
04 Jake Ball (Scarlets)
05 Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys)
06 Dan Lydiate (Ospreys)
07 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, CAPT)
08 Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)

16 Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)
17 Paul James (Bath Rugby)
18 Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues)
19 Luke Charteris (Racing Metro)
20 Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)
21 Mike Phillips (Racing Metro)
22 Rhys Priestland (Scarlets)
23 Scott Williams (Scarlets)

B. Form (last 4 games):

1. SCOTLAND

07/02/15 - France 15 - 8 Scotland

22/11/14 - Scotland 37 - 12 Tonga

15/11/14 - Scotland 16 - 24 New Zealand

08/11/14 - Scotland 41 - 31 Argentina

2. WALES

06/02/15 - Wales 16 - 21 England

29/11/14 - Wales 12 - 6 South Africa

22/11/14 - Wales 16 - 34 New Zealand

15/11/14  - Wales 17 - 13 Fiji

C. Head to Head:

120 Played 120

48 Wins 69

69 Losses 48

3 Draws 3

180 Tries 227

80 Conversions 112

130 Penalties 142

30 Drop Goals 25

1,204 Points 1,578

No 7&1/2 wrote:But it did nt go ten so should have either a retake or scrum. Law 13.8 if you want to look it up.

It doesn't work like that after the 80 minutes, the ball is dead and it's the final whistle.

It's all about context though. Cuthbert might have a higher strike rate, but you have to watch the games and see where those tries were scored from. North regularly looks more threatening when they play together for me, since the 30-3 game I can't really remember Cuthbert scoring any crucial tries? Not that North has either, but I just feel he is the better rugby player whereas Cuthbert is pretty much solely a finisher.

If James is the best TH we have then we are in trouble. Some refs dislike his technique and will just ping him all day. I've seen it for Bath this year too. Evans definitely needs to get some game time this 6N though. Off the bench in Paris though.

As for the kick off, you might not be able to kick it straight out but there are ways around so it's a massive red herring really. Scotland shouldn't get the ball back if Wales have any game smarts about them, whether Jackson allows the kick off or not.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:But it did nt go ten so should have either a retake or scrum. Law 13.8 if you want to look it up.

It doesn't work like that after the 80 minutes, the ball is dead and it's the final whistle.

Think it does.

JDizzle wrote:It's all about context though. Cuthbert might have a higher strike rate, but you have to watch the games and see where those tries were scored from. North regularly looks more threatening when they play together for me, since the 30-3 game I can't really remember Cuthbert scoring any crucial tries? Not that North has either, but I just feel he is the better rugby player whereas Cuthbert is pretty much solely a finisher.

If James is the best TH we have then we are in trouble. Some refs dislike his technique and will just ping him all day. I've seen it for Bath this year too. Evans definitely needs to get some game time this 6N though. Off the bench in Paris though.

As for the kick off, you might not be able to kick it straight out but there are ways around so it's a massive red herring really. Scotland shouldn't get the ball back if Wales have any game smarts about them, whether Jackson allows the kick off or not.

No worse than we have been the last 2 games with Jenkins, bath are flying high in their league on the back of a pretty solid pack display so James can't be that bad.

Stats - Jonny Gray missed a tackle! 13 tackles from dickinson 120+ m fro Hogg - and five defenders beaten

Beattte was pish - he has to go. Strox / Hamilton added little so they should be out as well. Tight vfived decent games all of them. Russell will have better games as will laidlaw. I'd give SHC a start I think. Rest of the backs fine but hopefully Maitland or Seymour will be beck.

Scotland should have won that. Didn't put the chances away. Let 'em off at the end of the half

That was a shocking game from Scotland - loads of time to go and they don't take the kicks for goal in a two score game! They could have won that game with kicks alone. Yes they were unlucky having a perfectly good try disallowed and not to see at least one more Welsh player binned, but they were also lucky Russell only got yellow. Couldn't believe big Jim thought it was a good idea to help Wales run the clock down by starting a fracas and then Russell ran the rest of it down dallying over the kick.

Cotter must now realise what he has let himself in for.

I see Taylor started for Saracens - doubt he'll get into the Scotland squad, but gives VC something to think about.

Just a thought - do you think Hamilton started a fight trying to win a penalty for Scotland after the conversion? I don't know if that is possible though.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:But it did nt go ten so should have either a retake or scrum. Law 13.8 if you want to look it up.

It doesn't work like that after the 80 minutes, the ball is dead and it's the final whistle.

Think it does.

The game would never end if it did, once the 80 minutes have elapsed there can be no scrums or lineouts and a kick direct into touch does not lead to a penalty.

A scrappy game for both teams.

Scotland i do believe could of won the game IF, IF, they had taken the kicks at goal when in the Welsh half and not try and go for the try. (White line feever) as jiffy called it.

Wale on the other hand i thought butcherd so many chances they could of been clear winners in the end.

Why did Glen Jackson not give a yellow card to Wales ( Baldwin) i think it was who kicked the ball away when Wales gave a penaltie under the post?

Who will be more happy today Wales or Scotland.

Wales should be happy with the win, but what about the performance?

Nematode wrote:Just a thought - do you think Hamilton started a fight trying to win a penalty for Scotland after the conversion? I don't know if that is possible though.

Hamilton started a fight cos that is what he does. Was it not Philips? As far as big Jim goes something always needs punching

bedfordwelsh wrote:

JDizzle wrote:It's all about context though. Cuthbert might have a higher strike rate, but you have to watch the games and see where those tries were scored from. North regularly looks more threatening when they play together for me, since the 30-3 game I can't really remember Cuthbert scoring any crucial tries? Not that North has either, but I just feel he is the better rugby player whereas Cuthbert is pretty much solely a finisher.

If James is the best TH we have then we are in trouble. Some refs dislike his technique and will just ping him all day. I've seen it for Bath this year too. Evans definitely needs to get some game time this 6N though. Off the bench in Paris though.

As for the kick off, you might not be able to kick it straight out but there are ways around so it's a massive red herring really. Scotland shouldn't get the ball back if Wales have any game smarts about them, whether Jackson allows the kick off or not.

No worse than we have been the last 2 games with Jenkins, bath are flying high in their league on the back of a pretty solid pack display so James can't be that bad.

And Northampton are top of the Prem. Doesn't mean Myler is better than Ford or Cipriani. James has solid days and then has days where refs get against him and he gets pinged pretty much every scrum. I can't believe he is that much better than Jenkins. I'd rather see Evans given a go, going off the comments on him.

JDizzle wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

JDizzle wrote:It's all about context though. Cuthbert might have a higher strike rate, but you have to watch the games and see where those tries were scored from. North regularly looks more threatening when they play together for me, since the 30-3 game I can't really remember Cuthbert scoring any crucial tries? Not that North has either, but I just feel he is the better rugby player whereas Cuthbert is pretty much solely a finisher.

If James is the best TH we have then we are in trouble. Some refs dislike his technique and will just ping him all day. I've seen it for Bath this year too. Evans definitely needs to get some game time this 6N though. Off the bench in Paris though.

As for the kick off, you might not be able to kick it straight out but there are ways around so it's a massive red herring really. Scotland shouldn't get the ball back if Wales have any game smarts about them, whether Jackson allows the kick off or not.

No worse than we have been the last 2 games with Jenkins, bath are flying high in their league on the back of a pretty solid pack display so James can't be that bad.

And Northampton are top of the Prem. Doesn't mean Myler is better than Ford or Cipriani. James has solid days and then has days where refs get against him and he gets pinged pretty much every scrum. I can't believe he is that much better than Jenkins. I'd rather see Evans given a go, going off the comments on him.

That's a matter of opinion again though most would have Marler in squad at least. If Evans got the nod then wouldn't have a problem with it one bit but just don't think Jenkins has it now at this level in the scrum which is his primary role.

Good game.....
as a neutral

Back from the pub. Sorry to see the number of reports on this thread because all of the Welsh lads from Port Talbot that were watching the game with me were great value. And they got the first round in. Those people on this thread may still be inclined to squirt vitriol around - just leave it. You know who you are.

Well done to Wales - just about value for the win. I haven't seen the stats but we cannot have had more than 40% of the possession in the entire game. Would I be happy with that as a Wales fan? I would just take the win, to be honest.  

We lost that because we made too many mistakes and made the wrong calls. My heart sank when I saw the kicking to touch from penalties in the first half and the "quick" tap and gos in the second half. I felt it would cost us and it did.

Add to that the ridiculous re-start leading to the passage of play culminating in the second Welsh try where Hogg caught it and was turned over as his pack was nowhere in sight and the bad, bad missed tackle by Matt Scott on JD2 for his score. We could have won it but we didn't.

I don't have any views on the ref at present because I couldn't hear the commentary but it didn't really seem as though he was ever fully in control of the game.

Just a word on some of our 'regular' players:
- Laidlaw - I would seriously contemplate replacing him with Sam Clyne. The Scottish game has moved on and we are now in a position where our backs are more likely to score than our forwards. Laidlaw does not seem to realize this and his slow service and lack of menace around the fringe is really hurting us.
- Beattie - added nothing - I hardly ever saw him. When you compare this to Cowan who works his arse off and is everywhere, we would be much better served by Barclay or Brown, who can add to the breakdown work and is a much bigger influence defensively.
- Strokosch - I love the big feller but the quality is not there. We know whom our loose forwards should be and it's not him or Beattie.

Well played Scotland and thanks for a great weekend...!

Very unlucky not to get more reward for all that endeavour. A great result is not far away.

Wales still make me to angry to comment.. Looks like we are going backwards in many aspects.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:But it did nt go ten so should have either a retake or scrum. Law 13.8 if you want to look it up.

It doesn't work like that after the 80 minutes, the ball is dead and it's the final whistle.

Think it does.

The game would never end if it did, once the 80 minutes have elapsed there can be no scrums or lineouts and a kick direct into touch does not lead to a penalty.

The restart has not been effected if either the ball went out on the full or failed to go 10m - therefore the restart switches to the scrum. There is plenty of precedent for this - and even led to Hartley being sent off against Leicester.

Blame for there not being a restart lies mostly with the TMO who told Jackson that time was up. That he was able to make that call was however down to Hamilton and russell fannying around.

Spoiler:

Like this? Skip to the end of the video.

maestegmafia wrote:Well played Scotland and thanks for a great weekend...!

Very unlucky not to get more reward for all that endeavour. A great result is not far away.

Wales still make me to angry to comment.. Looks like we are going backwards in many aspects.

Never mind all that. The key question is: did Mrs Maes like Edinburgh?

George Carlin wrote:Back from the pub. Sorry to see the number of reports on this thread because all of the Welsh lads from Port Talbot that were watching the game with me were great value. And they got the first round in. Those people on this thread may still be inclined to squirt vitriol around - just leave it. You know who you are.

Well done to Wales - just about value for the win. I haven't seen the stats but we cannot have had more than 40% of the possession in the entire game. Would I be happy with that as a Wales fan? I would just take the win, to be honest.  

We lost that because we made too many mistakes and made the wrong calls. My heart sank when I saw the kicking to touch from penalties in the first half and the "quick" tap and gos in the second half. I felt it would cost us and it did.

Add to that the ridiculous re-start leading to the passage of play culminating in the second Welsh try where Hogg caught it and was turned over as his pack was nowhere in sight and the bad, bad missed tackle by Matt Scott on JD2 for his score. We could have won it but we didn't.

I don't have any views on the ref at present because I couldn't hear the commentary but it didn't really seem as though he was ever fully in control of the game.

Just a word on some of our 'regular' players:
- Laidlaw - I would seriously contemplate replacing him with Sam Clyne. The Scottish game has moved on and we are now in a position where our backs are more likely to score than our forwards. Laidlaw does not seem to realize this and his slow service and lack of menace around the fringe is really hurting us.
- Beattie - added nothing - I hardly ever saw him. When you compare this to Cowan who works his arse off and is everywhere, we would be much better served by Barclay or Brown, who can add to the breakdown work and is a much bigger influence defensively.
- Strokosch - I love the big feller but the quality is not there. We know whom our loose forwards should be and it's not him or Beattie.

I would add Cross to that list, who I have long said is not an international quality TH. Currently Murray is first choice, the scrum went better with him on board last week and he even showed a rarely seen slight of hand. Welsh is a better scrummager than Cross and we lose little around the park and Nelly is going to walk into the squad when he qualifies and probably onto the bench at least.

The ones you named were our weakest links and the good news is that we do have alternatives.

1. At SH, S H-C is really starting to make a case. The pace he injected when he came on was infectious, he also has a much better pass than Laidlaw. He can kick as well!

2. At No.8 hopefully Denton will be fit again soon, though he still looked like he was limping when I saw him on the pitch after Fridays game. Hopefully that was just the bumpy pitch. He will give us some go forward, even if he can't pass and VC will tell him what he needs to do to improve and to give Josh Strauss and Adam Ashe a run for their money when JS walks into the team this autumn, with Ashe not far behind. Unfortunately Beattie is giving us nothing these days and he needs to go back to the club game and re find his form. It was the right decision not to bring him into the squad in the first place.

3. I am not sure what Stroks is bringing to the party either. Impact sub he is not,surely it is time to give Watson (or even Blake) a run. They would have been tailored made for the last 10 minutes today.

The game against Italy will be a very different kettle of fish and it will allow for a bit of experimentation. If those experiments go well, then they could easily become established. Laidlaw and Hamilton in particular are part and parcel of the old guard, the losing Scotland team of so many years. There is no point in calling for the return of other members of that club, we are moving on now. We need to keep on blooding the young and hungry new players. That is where the future lies for Scotland and where we will start getting the results we so badly want.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:But it did nt go ten so should have either a retake or scrum. Law 13.8 if you want to look it up.

It doesn't work like that after the 80 minutes, the ball is dead and it's the final whistle.

Think it does.

The game would never end if it did, once the 80 minutes have elapsed there can be no scrums or lineouts and a kick direct into touch does not lead to a penalty.

On a restart if you dont make ten or kicki t out on the full it does result in scrum retake or lineout 80 min or not.

If deliberately kicked out on full a penalty would be awarded

Sadly in any game that finishes with a small margin of points you'll find the final discussion ends up in a total hammering of opinions of the referee from ALL sides.
Wales can have more than their fair share of gripes too. Scotland didnt have men carded for continual infringements in the first half, a man tackled off the ball in Webb's try, that could easily of been a yellow, and or a penalty at the restart.
The yellow for Biggar should of been red, the Scottish player went under his feet with no attempt to get the ball.

Wales have got genuine gripes also, though for me I think Wales gave away a silly turn over and got caught while attacking for Scotland first try which was against the run of play. While AWJ and Ball ruined a good try for Wales with a pointless blocking move.

I certainly don't think Scotland were unlucky though, that final try at the death made the score line closer than it should of been. Even if play had continued I doubt Scotland would of been able to win.

Looking at the stats one thing that jumps out is the lack of ball carriers in the Scotland pack. Richie Gray carried 5 times for 0 metres. Cross and Ford did OK for front rowers, but the back 5 of the scrum barely got anywhere.

George Carlin wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Well played Scotland and thanks for a great weekend...!

Very unlucky not to get more reward for all that endeavour. A great result is not far away.

Wales still make me to angry to comment.. Looks like we are going backwards in many aspects.

Never mind all that. The key question is: did Mrs Maes like Edinburgh?

Loved it... It has always been one of our favourite cities...

We managed to get a table at the grain store last night, a superb restaurant...!

Great weekend, now heading to the Cairngormes to see old friends for a few days...

Did lunch/tapas at the las Iguanas joint they do a decent Caipirinha.

I have read a lot of complaints about the high tackle at the end of the game but prior to that Visser was holding Cuthbert back chasing the ball carrier! The correctly dis allowed try that happens in most games where they split the maul and take out players and rarely is a penalty given. I still think the pass from Gray to Hogg was forward for his try but Warburton being the captain he is did not ask the question. The point is Wales did not get all the calls in favour and it was not the ref that called time.

Exiledinborders wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Totally. All this nonsense from Sean Edwards that Scotland are the ones under pressure is a pile of old scrotum. Wales are correctly expected to win.

Sean Edwards seems to have learned bad habits from Gatland.

Wales are a good team and their coaches are clearly good coaches. Their coaches habit of mouthing off before every game is however extremely irritating. None of the other countries find it necessary. Why do the Wales coaches?

Did Cotter not mention targeting our scrum? Did strokosch mention making the welsh pay for swan diving and even worse signing post match last season? Hope it has been mentioned.

maes I saw you, but not in Scotland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:A contest of who was less dire.

Wales looked utterly clueless, lateral and error ridden and were it no for Scots letting them in then the game would surely have gone to them, but they were more dire than Wales - just how many pens did they not convert into points- and that is what cost them.

Rugby at its most awful

Wales won't beat Ireland or France playing this way. ThE only player on the park who looked like he was trying to beat the man was Sanjay, JD2 was dire bar one moment of brilliance and IMO Scott Williams deserves his shot.

Scot Andrews offers more than Jarvis, Hibbard and Lydiate have to be question marks too.

Ire Eng decides this tourney and i hope it turns out to be a great game, for me the Irish will win

Gwlad,

Who would have thought we would ever say that about Andrews but he looked the better option out of the two but still not up to it for me.  I would def give Owens a crack over Hibbard and whilst we are stuttering in our style as we are then yeah Lydiates place is in doubt but that would require a change of style and we know Gatland won't do that.

Sc Williams should have started today anyway.

Hats off to Biggar, Halfpenny and Williams they are fearless in the air.

Agree that is probably what tipped it, the aerial battle i mean

Oh and Cuthbert, he was the direst of dire, i mean dire with a creme anglais icing on top…..just awful

Drop Hibbard, Lydiate, poss Webb, JD2 and Cuthbert, and Cuthbert gets actually dropped, from a great height.

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:A contest of who was less dire.

Wales looked utterly clueless, lateral and error ridden and were it no for Scots letting them in then the game would surely have gone to them, but they were more dire than Wales - just how many pens did they not convert into points- and that is what cost them.

Rugby at its most awful

Wales won't beat Ireland or France playing this way. ThE only player on the park who looked like he was trying to beat the man was Sanjay, JD2 was dire bar one moment of brilliance and IMO Scott Williams deserves his shot.

Scot Andrews offers more than Jarvis, Hibbard and Lydiate have to be question marks too.

Ire Eng decides this tourney and i hope it turns out to be a great game, for me the Irish will win

Gwlad,

Who would have thought we would ever say that about Andrews but he looked the better option out of the two but still not up to it for me.  I would def give Owens a crack over Hibbard and whilst we are stuttering in our style as we are then yeah Lydiates place is in doubt but that would require a change of style and we know Gatland won't do that.

Sc Williams should have started today anyway.

Hats off to Biggar, Halfpenny and Williams they are fearless in the air.

Agree that is probably what tipped it, the aerial battle i mean

Oh and Cuthbert, he was the direst of dire, i mean dire with a creme anglais icing on top…..just awful

Drop Hibbard, Lydiate, poss Webb, JD2 and Cuthbert, and Cuthbert gets actually dropped, from a great height.

I guess that would be easier said than done.


You have a lot of players there. who do you have to come in and take their place?

Glen Jackson, who is normally a good ref, will look back on this match as a learning process hopefully - he will not want to be the deciding factor in a match again.

Risca Rev wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Totally. All this nonsense from Sean Edwards that Scotland are the ones under pressure is a pile of old scrotum. Wales are correctly expected to win.

Sean Edwards seems to have learned bad habits from Gatland.

Wales are a good team and their coaches are clearly good coaches. Their coaches habit of mouthing off before every game is however extremely irritating. None of the other countries find it necessary. Why do the Wales coaches?

Did Cotter not mention targeting our scrum? Did strokosch mention making the welsh pay for swan diving and even worse signing post match last season? Hope it has been mentioned.

I know - we've got deaf people too - they were really peed off!

maestegmafia wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Well played Scotland and thanks for a great weekend...!

Very unlucky not to get more reward for all that endeavour. A great result is not far away.

Wales still make me to angry to comment.. Looks like we are going backwards in many aspects.

Never mind all that. The key question is: did Mrs Maes like Edinburgh?

Loved it... It has always been one of our favourite cities...

We managed to get a table at the grain store last night, a superb restaurant...!

Great weekend, now heading to the Cairngormes to see old friends for a few days...

Did lunch/tapas at the las Iguanas joint they do a decent Caipirinha.

Glad to hear it. Grain Store is always a winner.

Were Scotland robbed? Probably.... repeated infringement on the Welsh try line or in the Welsh 22 resulted in a warning from the Ref 'No more penalties'. He then subsequently went on to award 4 more penalties in swift sucession for repeated Welsh infringement in their own 22/half without receiving a yellow card. That and the deliberate attempt to run the clock down by brawling after the last Scottish try...

Having said that, Scotland wasted at least three golden try scoring opportunities so left at least 15 points on the pitch. They lack the finisher - or the nouse to finish. That must be addressed. Wales can count themselves very lucky in my opinion.

So - plucky and encouraging it was then *sigh....

Jimpy wrote:Were Scotland robbed? Probably.... repeated infringement on the Welsh try line or in the Welsh 22 resulted in a warning from the Ref 'No more penalties'. He then subsequently went on to award 4 more penalties in swift sucession for repeated Welsh infringement in their own 22/half without receiving a yellow card. That and the deliberate attempt to run the clock down by brawling after the last Scottish try...

Having said that, Scotland wasted at least three golden try scoring opportunities so left at least 15 points on the pitch. They lack the finisher - or the nouse to finish. That must be addressed. Wales can count themselves very lucky in my opinion.

Plenty finishers in the Scotland side these days, it came down to nouse. Someone clearly felt we could smash our way through a defence built by Gatland and Edwards. I blame Scott Johnson (for everything).

majesticimperialman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:A contest of who was less dire.

Wales looked utterly clueless, lateral and error ridden and were it no for Scots letting them in then the game would surely have gone to them, but they were more dire than Wales - just how many pens did they not convert into points- and that is what cost them.

Rugby at its most awful

Wales won't beat Ireland or France playing this way. ThE only player on the park who looked like he was trying to beat the man was Sanjay, JD2 was dire bar one moment of brilliance and IMO Scott Williams deserves his shot.

Scot Andrews offers more than Jarvis, Hibbard and Lydiate have to be question marks too.

Ire Eng decides this tourney and i hope it turns out to be a great game, for me the Irish will win

Gwlad,

Who would have thought we would ever say that about Andrews but he looked the better option out of the two but still not up to it for me.  I would def give Owens a crack over Hibbard and whilst we are stuttering in our style as we are then yeah Lydiates place is in doubt but that would require a change of style and we know Gatland won't do that.

Sc Williams should have started today anyway.

Hats off to Biggar, Halfpenny and Williams they are fearless in the air.

Agree that is probably what tipped it, the aerial battle i mean

Oh and Cuthbert, he was the direst of dire, i mean dire with a creme anglais icing on top…..just awful

Drop Hibbard, Lydiate, poss Webb, JD2 and Cuthbert, and Cuthbert gets actually dropped, from a great height.

I guess that would be easier said than done.


You have a lot of players there. who do you have to come in and take their place?

maj,

Ken Owens in for Hibbard
Tipuric in for Lydiate with Warburton going to 6
Phillips or Gareth Davies for Webb though I would give Webb another chance
Sc Williams for JD
North back in for Cuthbert though I would drop North and Cuthbert bring Amos in

I have to a degree backed Cuthbert because peoples default option is to drop him but keep North where as in reality they are currently both as bad as each other and both have the same weaknesses but I cant see Gatland dropping both.

Wanted: someone to decorate my living room today. I'm sat in my painting clothes with a sore head, not wanting get started. Help!

Jimpy wrote:Were Scotland robbed? Probably.... repeated infringement on the Welsh try line or in the Welsh 22 resulted in a warning from the Ref 'No more penalties'. He then subsequently went on to award 4 more penalties in swift sucession for repeated Welsh infringement in their own 22/half without receiving a yellow card. That and the deliberate attempt to run the clock down by brawling after the last Scottish try...

Having said that, Scotland wasted at least three golden try scoring opportunities so left at least 15 points on the pitch. They lack the finisher - or the nouse to finish. That must be addressed. Wales can count themselves very lucky in my opinion.

Agree with all of that.

White line fever or as JD would put it - "Numbers!" look at all those Scottish backs waiting for the ball!

I just think sometimes teams don't find the right balance between putting some width on the ball and keep it up the jumper.Also the right balance between kicking and not kicking.

The ref could have been more favourable to Scotland but Scotland should be kicking themselves - that match was definitely there for the taking.

Glen Jackson's refusal to go to the TMO for Scotland's apparent "knock on" for that try in the second half has to be investigated.

Had the TMO been consulted, the conclusion he would have come to is obvious.

High Tackle, denying a try scoring oppertunity. Scrum half to the bin, penalty try.

The ref was mince but he wasn't the only reason GATLAND BALL was vindicated yesterday. A sad day for Scottish Rugby, Welsh rugby and the game in general.

Speaking of a sad day for the game in general, players firing themselves off their feet into rucks with no arms or regard for any players safety needs to be addressed & urgently.

What this clip from the Wales game, for a 'perfect' example https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/567051677396897792

What in the name of actual Frak is Jenkins playing at??? It's sickening to watch, the potential for serious injury so high. Its a wonder Hogg walked away & played on.

I want to see refs get a whole lot stricter on that.

GLove39 wrote:Speaking of a sad day for the game in general, players firing themselves off their feet into rucks with no arms or regard for any players safety needs to be addressed & urgently.

What this clip from the Wales game, for a 'perfect' example https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/567051677396897792

What in the name of actual Frak is Jenkins playing at??? It's sickening to watch, the potential for serious injury so high. Its a wonder Hogg walked away & played on.  

I want to see refs get a whole lot stricter on that.

Seen that at the time, I thought it warranted a penalty and possibly a yellow.

That is shocking. Gethin Jenkins is a player of considerable experience and should know better.

cakeordeath wrote:

GLove39 wrote:Speaking of a sad day for the game in general, players firing themselves off their feet into rucks with no arms or regard for any players safety needs to be addressed & urgently.

What this clip from the Wales game, for a 'perfect' example https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/567051677396897792

What in the name of actual Frak is Jenkins playing at??? It's sickening to watch, the potential for serious injury so high. Its a wonder Hogg walked away & played on.  

I want to see refs get a whole lot stricter on that.

Seen that at the time, I thought it warranted a penalty and possibly a yellow.

Definite yellow for me. A complete no arms shoulder charge into an opponent in open play would surely be punished with one. This situation is far worse, players are so vulnerable when bridging a ruck like that. There's nothing they can do to protect themselves.

Disgusting.

Chance of citing. Zero

That kind of clear out happens all the time, but that is a particularly bad example of it and could lead to shoulder/neck/back injuries.

The problem is that it is an incredibly strong ruck position to get into - that's why people do it - so your only choices are:

A - Run full steam into them with your shoulder and smash them down (how can you get your arms round them then?)

or

B - Do a judo style throw of them, getting your arm round their leg or arm and levering them away.


Jenkins being an 18st prop looking at a 14 stone fullback obviously favoured the former.

Jackson was shocking - not checking those potential tries absolutely criminal. His refusal to yellow a player for repeated infringements was baffling. I am not being biased either - Scotland infringed a lot in the first half in our 22 and I thought at the time we were lucky not to pick up a yellow. How Wales managed not to pick up a yellow in the last 15 minutes.

There should be some sort of repercussion for Jackson's performance yesterday.

Anyway, Scotland should've won that even with Jackson's performance. We simply did not convert the chances we had.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:That is shocking. Gethin Jenkins is a player of considerable experience and should know better.

this game stinks. wales should have 1 penalty try awarded against them, thats 7 points plus 2 yellow cards. game over .

RDW_Scotland wrote:That kind of clear out happens all the time, but that is a particularly bad example of it and could lead to shoulder/neck/back injuries.

The problem is that it is an incredibly strong ruck position to get into - that's why people do it - so your only choices are:

A - Run full steam into them with your shoulder and smash them down (how can you get your arms round them then?)

or

B - Do a judo style throw of them, getting your arm round their leg or arm and levering them away.


Jenkins being an 18st prop looking at a 14 stone fullback obviously favoured the former.

completely agree with this...when you bridge the ball that low as a player you know the dangers....many moons ago he would have had 6 studs down his back