Ireland V France

First topic message reminder :

   
IRELAND v FRANCE
14 February 2015
KO: 17:00
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
AR1: Nigel Owens (WRU)
AR2: Stuart Berry (SARU)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

IRELAND

15 Rob Kearney
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Jared Payne
12 Robbie Henshaw
11 Simon Zebo
10 Johnny Sexton
9 Conor Murray

1 Jack McGrath
2 Rory Best
3 Mike Ross
4 Devin Toner
5 Paul O'Connell (c)
6 Peter O'Mahony
7 Sean O'Brien
8 Jamie Heaslip

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Cian Healy, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Iain Henderson, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Isaac Boss, 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Felix Jones

FRANCE

15 Scott Spedding
14 Yoann Huget
13 Mathieu Bastareaud
12 Wesley Fofana
11 Teddy Thomas
10 Camille Lopez
9 Rory Kockott

1 Eddy Ben Arous
2 Guilhem Guirado
3 Rabah Slimani
4 Pascal Papé
5 Yoann Maestri
6 Thierry Dusautoir (c)
7 Bernard Le Roux
8 Damien Chouly

16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Uini Atonio, 18 Vincent Debaty, 19 Romain Taofifenua, 20 Loann Goujon, 21 Morgan Parra, 22 Rémi Talès, 23 Rémi Lamerat

*****
This is an interesting battle, and very much a case of brains v brawn.
French flair is long gone, they now rely on the likes of Bastareaud and their pack of overweight lumps to get over the line.
Ireland are very much a team of robots, Joe gives instructions on how to dismantle a team like IKEA gives instructions on how to make a cupboard. With the right personnel in Sexton, SOB and the likes of Heaslip at the helm, they should be able to devour the French fatties like they're the last square of a Kinder Bueno.
All logic points to an Irish victory, but as so often happens the French defy logic.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I think what all of us will agree on is that Ireland have become perhaps the most Pragmatic side in the ranking top 10.... apart perhaps from the ABs themselves.  

Exactly right - and what have both these got in common? - they lack the power, depth and physical bulk of many their top ten rivals and therefore pragmatism, accuracy and fitness are paramount.

It's taken a kiwi to understand that Ireland can't be south Africa.

You only read the first part of me post, damn it!!!

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I never realised how biased the Rugby board was, christ there's no inbetween for any of you.

From my memory Barnes was favouring the attacking team in the scrum so kind of makes your breakdown theory a bit of old rubbish Rodders.

Hmm, yep - over on the English v Italy thread I was reading posts from English people that the Irish ref needs lessons in reffing and that they pity the poor Pro12 teams that have to deal with him week in and week out. So lots of nice objective ref watching all round

But biased? The Irish? As in some Irish supporters saying Ireland will cruise the 6N and other Irish posters saying England will have something to say about it? ....and some Irish fans saying Schmidt has the perfect tactics for any game and other Irish fans saying he's going to be found out real soon?

Uniformly biased? The Irish? We don't have one consistent thought in our head. We hate each other much more than we hate you fellow 6N guys. Relax.

I think it'll be very tight against England. I actually think their more recent additions like Ford, Joseph and Watson, are not great defenders and I think Burrell is very average. They could bring back in Barrett though.

5'9" Ford coped ok with Jamie Roberts...

At present my feeling is England have a LOT more potential. Ireland are very tough and very practical and might well do us, but I do like the look of this England side - if we can develop as we should.

Cowshot wrote:5'9" Ford coped ok with Jamie Roberts...

At present my feeling is England have a LOT more potential. Ireland are very tough and very practical and might well do us, but I do like the look of this England side - if we can develop as we should.

England still need to improve in the backs. Much of the improvement has come from the brilliance of individiuals, Joseph in particular this year rather than looking like they are a really well drilled attacking unit. If you have guys like May Brown and Joseph all on form England will be hard to stop.

There is a lot of doom and gloom about the Ireland performance. A bit of perspective may be required. We won by 7 points. Only once in my lifetime have we beaten france by more than 7 points and that was in '09. In total we have only beaten France by 7 points or more 3 times since 1980. 2001 was the only other time.

We played a very effective game plan almost to perfection. Ireland were nearly always in control. Dicipline was the main concern for me as we usually dont give away so many penalties. Some of them were blatant others probably down to Barnes' idiosyncratic interpretations and tendancy to panalise Ireland in general when he refs us.

BODisGOD wrote:

Notch wrote:

BODisGOD wrote:Everyone kept on saying how big the French were and that we wouldn't be able to deal with their physicality, even when the collective weight of the two packs were shown and Ireland's were over 30kg heavier. This mentality of the Irish people is getting exhausting.

Players like Mike Ross and Devin Toner might be heavy, but they aren't as physical as their French counterparts. It's not a size issue its the fact that the French have some explosive ball carriers. Physicality and weight are not the same thing- they definitely have a more physical side than us.

France's tight 5 were all on the light side apart from Maestri, and they're back row definitely wouldn't be a better ball carrying unit then ours!

And Atonio, Debaty, Kayser and Taofifénua off the bench are all massive carriers and changed the game and swung the momentum to France.

For the record, I don't think Ireland are robotic at all. There's a huge difference between being one dimensional and knowing your job inside out. For me it's been an absolute delight to watch Ireland lately after several years where players just looked utterly confused about what they were meant to be doing.

In some games Ireland have been very expansive and attacking, in others we've played very tight and defensive. We have a variety to the way we play that Wales do not have, the game plan has always been different depending on the opposition. But it will always be difficult to attack when we are losing the collisions like we did on Saturday. In games like that we just have to be pragmatic and make sure we get the result even if we have to kick and chase for 80 minutes.

For all the SOB doubters one ruck summed up why SOB was brought back into the team. TOD is a very good player in all fairness but no one can clean out a ruck like SOB:

No only did he clean out three French players while on the back foot he also cleaned out Heaslip. Basically he cleaned out the whole ruck. Mightyu stuff:

http://www.the42.ie/sean-obrien-rucking-ireland-france-1940485-Feb2015/

Notch wrote:For the record, I don't think Ireland are robotic at all. There's a huge difference between being one dimensional and knowing your job inside out. For me it's been an absolute delight to watch Ireland lately after several years where players just looked utterly confused about what they were meant to be doing.

In some games Ireland have been very expansive and attacking, in others we've played very tight and defensive. We have a variety to the way we play that Wales do not have, the game plan has always been different depending on the opposition. But it will always be difficult to attack when we are losing the collisions like we did on Saturday. In games like that we just have to be pragmatic and make sure we get the result even if we have to kick and chase for 80 minutes.

Completely agree Notch. Some people just want to moan. Ireland are fascinating to watch. They mixed it up a lot and are full of surprises. Where they lack in offloads and clean breaks for me they make up for it in bucket loads of innovation everywhere else.

We beat France by 7 points and always looked in control. I am absolutely delighted with this.

Notch wrote:For the record, I don't think Ireland are robotic at all. There's a huge difference between being one dimensional and knowing your job inside out. For me it's been an absolute delight to watch Ireland lately after several years where players just looked utterly confused about what they were meant to be doing.

In some games Ireland have been very expansive and attacking, in others we've played very tight and defensive. We have a variety to the way we play that Wales do not have, the game plan has always been different depending on the opposition. But it will always be difficult to attack when we are losing the collisions like we did on Saturday. In games like that we just have to be pragmatic and make sure we get the result even if we have to kick and chase for 80 minutes.

Amen to that!

I am genuinely staggered that there should be negativity about our style being robotic.

Every coach wants their players drilled to the point where everything is second nature - its good coaching!

Everybody wants to win convincingly and score a shed-load of tries in the process. We don't have the personnel to do that just now through injuries, lack of depth etc. Schmidt is putting square pegs in square holes and HE IS WINNING.

How many times in the past have we gone into a game against France expecting to win?

We held a dogged Italy to 3 points in Rome. They scored 17 against England at Twickers

We beat France, holding out to the end when in the past we would probably have capitulated.

I'm excited, we're winning.

I fully expect us to beat England.

Given the first 2 games I expect England to win in Ireland unless Ireland up their game. I think they've been efficient but little else so far.

I also fully expect Ireland to up their game. Sorry should have mentioned that!

What will be interesting is the mental toughness of this England side. They are definitely developing in the right direction under Lancaster, this game may tell us a lot about England and 'where they are' now.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Given the first 2 games I expect England to win in Ireland unless Ireland up their game. I think they've been efficient but little else so far.

England will probably need to improve defensively. Conceding 4 tries in two games is a lot no? Especially against the 4th and 6th places teams. As for points difference Ireland only need to defeat England by three points to overtake Englands points difference so it is still quite tight.

This is a must win game obviously. We are certainly due a win v England and there is no better place than Landsdowne to get it. I am really looking forward to it as I love it when England and their fans visit. It is always fun and is my favorite fixture.

Jason Leonard said it was his favorite place to play away.

Should be a good game anyway!

Not sure I'd take too much notice of the tries conceded or scored against Italy to be honest. The game was always going to end with a comfortable victory and lacked the proper intensity of a normal test match. I suppose the question is can England up it again? It would be a big help to get Lawes or Parling back and then I'd be very confident, suppose there's question marks on some important players like Healsip and Brown as well.

Brown has two weeks, Im sure he will be back. Heaslip wont be if he doesnt have a broken vertebrae. Yes it should be very interesting. Hopefully a better game and result than the last time they locked horns in Landsdowne.

No mate, the result was very good!

Was Brown concussed?

Just saw highlights and he looked poleaxed.

I think if you are layed out like that you are always concussed no?

That's what I thought, therefore with protocols being what they are, does it not follow that he won't appear against Ireland.

Not heard if he was concussed or not so I expect we'll hear over the next few days.

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Given the first 2 games I expect England to win in Ireland unless Ireland up their game. I think they've been efficient but little else so far.

England will probably need to improve defensively. Conceding 4 tries in two games is a lot no? Especially against the 4th and 6th places teams. As for points difference Ireland only need to defeat England by three points to overtake Englands points difference so it is still quite tight.

This is a must win game obviously. We are certainly due a win v England and there is no better place than Landsdowne to get it. I am really looking forward to it as I love it when England and their fans visit. It is always fun and is my favorite fixture.

Jason Leonard said it was his favorite place to play away.

You could spin things on their head though and say England have 8 tries to Ireland's 2.

England have clearly been the most attacking side in the competition so far. Also England have left clear cut opportunities on the table vs both Wales and Italy too.

England need to tighten up their defence but Ireland need to up their attack. England will be the stiffest test for Ireland's defence too.

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Given the first 2 games I expect England to win in Ireland unless Ireland up their game. I think they've been efficient but little else so far.

England will probably need to improve defensively. Conceding 4 tries in two games is a lot no? Especially against the 4th and 6th places teams. As for points difference Ireland only need to defeat England by three points to overtake Englands points difference so it is still quite tight.

This is a must win game obviously. We are certainly due a win v England and there is no better place than Landsdowne to get it. I am really looking forward to it as I love it when England and their fans visit. It is always fun and is my favorite fixture.

Jason Leonard said it was his favorite place to play away.

You could spin things on their head though and say England have 8 tries to Ireland's 2.

England have clearly been the most attacking side in the competition so far. Also England have left clear cut opportunities on the table vs both Wales and Italy too.

England need to tighten up their defence but Ireland need to up their attack. England will be the stiffest test for Ireland's defence too.

I agree with that though I wouldnt be overly disapointed if we beat England without scoring a try. I feel both teams will score at least one try though even though there have only been two tries in total in Irelands last two games v England.

So, going by this thread. Everything is perfect in Ireland and Schmidt is doing a brilliant job and no questions should be raised about the performance and game plans simply because Ireland have beaten a poor Italian side in a rather dire match and beaten a French side in an equally lacklustre attacking performance?

Nachos Jones wrote:So, going by this thread. Everything is perfect in Ireland and Schmidt is doing a brilliant job and no questions should be raised about the performance and game plans simply because Ireland have beaten a poor Italian side in a rather dire match and beaten a French side in an equally lacklustre attacking performance?

God, lighten up. You can raise all the questions you want that doesn't oblige anyone to agree! There's a lot more to be positive about than negative about in my opinion. Its not long ago we couldn't buy any kind of win against France so a 7-point win suits me just fine.

I don't think anything is perfect but Schmidt is indeed doing a fantastic job. The performance against Italy was disappointing in that we didn't implement the change in strategy in the last 20 minutes well and failed to transition to an attacking game plan in that time, but I have no problem with the tactics employed in either game whatsoever. We've just won nine games in a row including games against South Africa, Australia and France twice so he's clearly doing something right. Room to improve? Most definitely, but we're still favourites to retain our title and going for a tenth win in a row so people can't be blamed for enjoying it. Thats my opinion and you're entitled to yours.

Lighten up?

Have you actually read through this thread? Never have I been rude but have simply added my opinions and the response I get is to be called:

Pompous and arrogant
A fool
Lacking a rugby brain
Moaner

I don't expect every one or anyone to agree with my opinions Notch but feel everyone has the right to be treated with respect.

Nachos Jones wrote:Lighten up?

Have you actually read through this thread? Never have I been rude but have simply added my opinions and the response I get is to be called:

Pompous and arrogant
A fool
Lacking a rugby brain
Moaner

I don't expect every one or anyone to agree with my opinions Notch but feel everyone has the right to be treated with respect.

You are getting a little excited over very little.

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Given the first 2 games I expect England to win in Ireland unless Ireland up their game. I think they've been efficient but little else so far.

England will probably need to improve defensively. Conceding 4 tries in two games is a lot no? Especially against the 4th and 6th places teams. As for points difference Ireland only need to defeat England by three points to overtake Englands points difference so it is still quite tight.

This is a must win game obviously. We are certainly due a win v England and there is no better place than Landsdowne to get it. I am really looking forward to it as I love it when England and their fans visit. It is always fun and is my favorite fixture.

Jason Leonard said it was his favorite place to play away.

You could spin things on their head though and say England have 8 tries to Ireland's 2.

England have clearly been the most attacking side in the competition so far. Also England have left clear cut opportunities on the table vs both Wales and Italy too.

England need to tighten up their defence but Ireland need to up their attack. England will be the stiffest test for Ireland's defence too.

I agree with that though I wouldnt be overly disapointed if we beat England without scoring a try. I feel both teams will score at least one try though even though there have only been two tries in total in Irelands last two games v England.

Yes I agree that a win is important.

Weather could well be a factor too.

It's probably not going to be a high scoring game but we'll see.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
My definition of heads up rugby is to see an opportunity and not be afraid to go for it

And what opportunity didn't we go for?

One clear clear chance when Sexton threw the wrong ball to Payne, when Zebo had a walk in and the other the driving lineout when Heaslip got the knee to the back and Pape should have got red.

It was very difficult to create anything when Barnes was favoring the defending team at the breakdown, especially when they were wearing blue.

Sometimes things don't go for you and you have to win ugly.

There were no opportunities created. For instance, Zebo threw a lovely pass to Payne (against Italy) and Payne looked afraid to actually go for it and try and beat an Italian defender.

Against Australia as well, Zebo was heavily criticised (not the 3 or 4 Irish players who missed their tackles) for trying a creative offload.

Its seems creativity is not on anymore.

Payne is a creative player - all he does is make tackles now.

Of course Zebo was criticised. He passed the ball to an Aussie who scored a try. Thats not creativity that making a bad call.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
My definition of heads up rugby is to see an opportunity and not be afraid to go for it

And what opportunity didn't we go for?

One clear clear chance when Sexton threw the wrong ball to Payne, when Zebo had a walk in and the other the driving lineout when Heaslip got the knee to the back and Pape should have got red.

It was very difficult to create anything when Barnes was favoring the defending team at the breakdown, especially when they were wearing blue.

Sometimes things don't go for you and you have to win ugly.

There were no opportunities created. For instance, Zebo threw a lovely pass to Payne (against Italy) and Payne looked afraid to actually go for it and try and beat an Italian defender.

Against Australia as well, Zebo was heavily criticised (not the 3 or 4 Irish players who missed their tackles) for trying a creative offload.

Its seems creativity is not on anymore.

Payne is a creative player - all he does is make tackles now.

This, this is what I have been saying. I feel that Schmidt is coaching the creativity out of creative players. Its this similarity I see between Schmidt and Gatland which worries me as Wales are now being found out more and more regularly.

I still think that Schmidt is a great coach but this approach worries me.

GunsGerms wrote:Of course Zebo was criticised. He passed the ball to an Aussie who scored a try. Thats not creativity that making a bad call.

Even Joe doesn't agree with you. He blamed the guys for missing the tackles actually.

Nachos Jones wrote:
This, this is what I have been saying. I feel that Schmidt is coaching the creativity out of creative players. Its this similarity I see between Schmidt and Gatland which worries me as Wales are now being found out more and more regularly.

I still think that Schmidt is a great coach but this approach worries me.

Schmidt seems to make average players better, but he really can't handle creative players.

He failed with Carlos Spencer (ruined him actually). He did nothing to improve Fionn Carr (who regressed when with Leinster). You have to wonder why Conway left Leinster and how Luke Fitz was all ready to move until Schmidt convinced him to stay by promising to help him convert to outside centre.

Sin é wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:
This, this is what I have been saying. I feel that Schmidt is coaching the creativity out of creative players. Its this similarity I see between Schmidt and Gatland which worries me as Wales are now being found out more and more regularly.

I still think that Schmidt is a great coach but this approach worries me.

Schmidt seems to make average players better, but he really can't handle creative players.

He failed with Carlos Spencer (ruined him actually). He did nothing to improve Fionn Carr (who regressed when with Leinster). You have to wonder why Conway left Leinster and how Luke Fitz was all ready to move until Schmidt convinced him to stay by promising to help him convert to outside centre.

And yet he handled Ireland's most creative one and gave him two HECs, a GrandSlam and an 'almost f**king made it' loss to New Zealand. He also handled Nacewa and turned him into pretty much an Irish Provincial legend.

Not bad for a guy who prefers big lumps like Paulie and Toner

BOD's legs were gone by the time Schmidt came on the scene and he was into his hitting rucks & defensive stage of his career. He probably would have turned him into a robot too if he got him when he was 22 or 23.

POC or Toner are not big lumps (in the Brad Thorn /Cudmore way - both favoured by Joe).

SecretFly,

he did an amazing job for Leinster, no doubting that and he began so well with Ireland as well but I am noticing a downturn in that style that made him so successful at Leinster with Ireland.

Like Sin é said, I also feel that he has trouble with creative players at International level and seems to be coaching it out of them. There is a very notable step up between club and International rugby and I do believe that he has done very well and Ireland are winning, not grumbling about that. I just see a trend forming whereby naturally creative players are loosing that license. It just worries me that's all.

Can you imagine this thread if we had lost?

I don't think there is such a thing as truly, unstructured creative play in top international rugby anymore in the way their used to be where teams could run from deep. Now all the best teams rely 99% on structure.

The teams we think of as creative- like the All Blacks and Australia- are actually as highly structured and coached as Ireland are and they rely primarily on structure and execution to create space, not off the cuff genius. The occasional bit of magic by Folau or whoever is only capitalised on because the players around him are so well drilled in terms of support play.

The most creative team in their approach for me in world rugby is Argentina and its no coincidence that they are also a team with an incredibly high number of errors and knock-ons.

I think the problem is overstated. Being 'creative' now is about inventive training ground moves, good skills and good support lines than improvisation and off the cuff play. We've seen plenty of that in Schmidts time as coach.

Sin é wrote:BOD's legs were gone by the time Schmidt came on the scene and he was into his hitting rucks & defensive stage of his career. He probably would have turned him into a robot too if he got him when he was 22 or 23.

POC or Toner are not big lumps (in the Brad Thorn /Cudmore way - both favoured by Joe).

Serious quetion.

Zebo came off his wing many times in the Italy game and created opportunities out wide with good drawing of defenders and zippy passing.

Do you thin that:
A: That was the brief given to him by Scmidt encouraging him to use his creativity and to take the pressure of Keatley?
B: That was Zebo doing it off his own bat?

Given that he was still in the team for the France game I know which box I would tick.

It is very hard to for the backs to show any creativity as we couldnt build phases as we kept getting pinged at the ruck. It was partially our own fault partially Barnes blowing too quickly on occasion but when you know you are gonna get blasted at the breakdown when you spin the ball wide you have to adapt which is what we did I think.

[quote="GunsGerms"]It is very hard to for the backs to show any creativity as we couldnt build phases as we kept getting pinged at the ruck. It was partially our own fault partially Barnes blowing too quickly on occasion but when you know you are gonna get blasted at the breakdown when you spin the ball wide you have to adapt which is what we did I think.[/quote]

exactly and it's worth noting that Ireland were also comitting way less players at most breakdown than France (France probably comitted too much). as a result they could get in defense pretty quickly and ensure france didnt have any gaps to exploit (which worked quite well) and hope French players will get tired faster. on the other hand it means you are unlikely to get quick ball from your 9. the best Irish moves started from a line out or kick and chase from Sexton or Kearney. Variety and specially execution is important here and that's why Ireland with Sexton dominates in Europe at the moment. No doubt they will get more options once SOB and Healy are at 100%.

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:BOD's legs were gone by the time Schmidt came on the scene and he was into his hitting rucks & defensive stage of his career. He probably would have turned him into a robot too if he got him when he was 22 or 23.

POC or Toner are not big lumps (in the Brad Thorn /Cudmore way - both favoured by Joe).

Serious quetion.

Zebo came off his wing many times in the Italy game and created opportunities out wide with good drawing of defenders and zippy passing.

Do you thin that:
A: That was the brief given to him by Scmidt encouraging him to use his creativity and to take the pressure of Keatley?
B: That was Zebo doing it off his own bat?

Given that he was still in the team for the France game I know which box I would tick.

I'd imagine that Zebo was told to come in and give them a dig out and Bowe was told to stay out on the wing as Luke McClean is a bit more threatening than Sarto.

What I don't understand is why Payne wasn't giving that pass to Zebo rather than the other way around. Zebo would have gone for the line I think. Payne went safety first.

This week, Bowe came in a bit more than Zebo (presumably Teddy Thomas was regarded as less of a threat out wide than Huget).

rapidsnowman wrote:Can you imagine this thread if we had lost?

We love it!

All the affected groans are just throat clearers to release the laughs.

We love the 'He ain't No good' battles after every Irish game.

Irish people all agreeing that "we sure showed them Frenchies how to fry a perfect spud - and they were the Frak spuds!"??

Never going to happen - thankfully

Ireland still hold the Raeburn Shield and have held it for four games in a row now.

GunsGerms wrote:There is a lot of doom and gloom about the Ireland performance. A bit of perspective may be required. We won by 7 points. Only once in my lifetime have we beaten france by more than 7 points and that was in '09. In total we have only beaten France by 7 points or more 3 times since 1980. 2001 was the only other time.

We played a very effective game plan almost to perfection. Ireland were nearly always in control. Dicipline was the main concern for me as we usually dont give away so many penalties. Some of them were blatant others probably down to Barnes' idiosyncratic interpretations and tendancy to panalise Ireland in general when he refs us.  

I am delighted that we won and very happy with Ireland's performances, but I am worried that this style of rugby is not sustainable, and we need to show a bit of innovation and creativity if we want to win the 6 nations, and more importantly the world cup. I am nervous looking forward to the England game.

Nachos Jones wrote:Lighten up?

Have you actually read through this thread? Never have I been rude but have simply added my opinions and the response I get is to be called:

Pompous and arrogant
A fool
Lacking a rugby brain
Moaner

I don't expect every one or anyone to agree with my opinions Notch but feel everyone has the right to be treated with respect.

Fair play Nachos, I for one appreciate your contributions despite not agreeing with all of them, and to be honest it is annoying to see the hypocrisy of some posters who are wound up by your opinions yet do not appreciate it when you do not agree with theirs.

I think plenty of other people on here need to lighten up actually.. Nachos has been civil throughout. Give him a break.

BTW for the record I am a huge Schmidt fan. I just have my concerns about our ability to win the competition currently. The England game is going to answer a lot of questions for me personally. And I really really hope I am proved wrong.

Rory, you know Henderson, don't you? Did you hear what BOD had to say about him last week? What do you think of that?

(Said he was a very talented player etc. etc. but a poor trainer and didn't know the calls and that he won't last with Schmidt if he carries on like that).

I think you mean BOD was GOD.

Sin é wrote:Rory, you know Henderson, don't you? Did you hear what BOD had to say about him last week? What do you think of that?

(Said he was a very talented player etc. etc. but a poor trainer and didn't know the calls and that he won't last with Schmidt if he carries on like that).

I went to school with him, didn't know him all that well as he was a bit older and I stopped playing rugby when we would have played together at senior level. He is an exceptionally gifted player though and it would be very disappointing if he were to be dropped. A professional second row has to know the calls, there is no way around the unfortunately. If he wants to be a blindside flanker then it is a different story.

Personally I want to see him in the second row, and I think he will improve in the line-out with time. Other aspects of his play are already world class though. I really am not using that term lightly either, he has HUGE potential.