Title Decider 2: Wales v Ireland 14 March

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WALES v IRELAND
Saturday 14 March 2015
KO: 14:30
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
AR1: Chris Pollock (NZR)
AR2: Federico Anselmi (UAR)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

*****

The bookies are keeping with their earlier predictions of no GS winner above Ireland's chances. And same for the Triple Crown.  Though they have Ireland as favourites in Cardiff but not by much.

Given the distinct love-in that we've had over the last fortnight between Irish and English fans, are Wales now the new 'old enemy'?

Keep it clean folks.

Well a bit anyway.

Ireland team:
15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 13. Jared Payne (Ulster) 12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 11. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 10. Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92) 9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) (capt) 6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

Replacements: 16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 18. Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster) 19. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 21. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 23. Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)

Wales Team: Webb, Roberts, Biggar, North, Williams, Halfpenny, Davies, Jones, Falateau, Warburton, Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee.
Replacements: R Hibbard R Evans A Jarvis , J Ball J Tipuric , M Phillips , R Priestland , S Williams

did someone organise a cyclops convention?

Barnes was completely missing the typical irish tricks at the breakdown of taking players out way beyond the ruck and then holding Wales players in with their legs while waiving and playing up to the ref. Although the time he told o'brien to be quiet it was golden, put him in his place.

Also, Jamie Heaslip. What a pile of sh.t he is these days. Hangs out in the backs with his white boots on and rushes out of the line in defence, f.cks it up royally with scott williams going past him and then tries to put the blame on tommy bowe. How much does he get paid a year again? Ireland need to start Murphy and put ol' Heaslip out of his misery.

And what about Golden Boy Sexton getting stuck on his backside by JD

quinsforever wrote:did someone organise a cyclops convention?

... some guy called Barnes?

quinsforever wrote:rory. grow up. you are very young. time will lend you some perspective.

england won their match. not sure what sort of moral victory i would be angling for from a match they weren't involved in.

maybe i humiliated you previously in a discussion, but it does amuse me every time i post that you always attack me personally and never the content of my posts. it's a pretty obvious admission that you cant discuss that actual post on its merits.

Aside from the fact I haven't personally attacked you once (really? ) if I were to follow your posts as you seem to think, my post count would be much, much higher. You happen to post some rather amusing posts in threads that I too am a part of, and I respond accordingly. The content of your posts are already being debated by many others on here and I see little point in getting drawn into the same meaningless debate.

Don't take it too seriously though, it is only a forum after all.

gcBlues wrote:Barnes was completely missing the typical irish tricks at the breakdown of taking players out way beyond the ruck and then holding Wales players in with their legs while waiving and playing up to the ref. Although the time he told o'brien to be quiet it was golden, put him in his place.

Also, Jamie Heaslip. What a pile of sh.t he is these days. Hangs out in the backs with his white boots on and rushes out of the line in defence, f.cks it up royally with scott williams going past him and then tries to put the blame on tommy bowe. How much does he get paid a year again? Ireland need to start Murphy and put ol' Heaslip out of his misery.

And what about Golden Boy Sexton getting stuck on his backside by JD  

Are you serious? Do you watch these games with both eyes open? Rhys Webb is notorious for holding players on the wrong side of the ruck and pretending they are disrupting his service. One shouldn't throw stones in glass houses.

gcBlues wrote:Barnes was completely missing the typical irish tricks at the breakdown of taking players out way beyond the ruck and then holding Wales players in with their legs while waiving and playing up to the ref. Although the time he told o'brien to be quiet it was golden, put him in his place.

Actually I noticed them getting away with a lot of that previously too but didn't want to mention it after the England match for fear of being labelled a poor loser - I do wonder why it rarely if ever gets pinged though as surely it's obstruction?

I do actually, why would i watch it with one eye closed? I'm not Keet Wood.

Heaf wrote:

gcBlues wrote:Barnes was completely missing the typical irish tricks at the breakdown of taking players out way beyond the ruck and then holding Wales players in with their legs while waiving and playing up to the ref. Although the time he told o'brien to be quiet it was golden, put him in his place.

Actually I noticed them getting away with a lot of that previously too but didn't want to mention it after the England match for fear of being labelled a poor loser - I do wonder why it rarely if ever gets pinged though as surely it's obstruction?

You should have just mentioned it, the only ones who would kick up a fuss would be the Oirish who would be angry because you had the audacity to claim St Parl and his men were something other than whiter than white at the breakdown.

Oh dear. It seems like we have a cheeky little welsh man on the forums now. Best be careful.

Wow this Rory fella really is coming across bitter and angry . Kinda like those kids in school who pretend they're amused when they're loosing an argument. Come on son, the rest of the Ireland fans seem to be taking it well enough, dont let the side down, time to man up..

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Oh dear. It seems like we have a cheeky little welsh man on the forums now. Best be careful.

visits Craggy Island would've been entertaining.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Barnes was excellent consistent explained his decisions clearly everything you d want.

I don't think he was overly consistent but he was fairly evenly inconsistent to both teams.

He annoyed the hell out of me at scrum time where he varied the length of time before calls and bizarrely only picked up on one crooked feed all game.

Congratulations to Wales....................... and that old sly dog Gats.  He did the biz on what was needed and to a man the Welsh players answered and gave him what he told them it required.
We were blown of the field on intensity levels needed for this level, which Ireland didn't come close to bringing.  But you can only play what's in front of you and Wales hit everything that moved for the full 80.

I'm not really down at all though - shockingly so but pleasantly so.  I think Ireland have a lot in the tank and probably some that they're not showing yet still.  Part of me thinks this is a rigid Championship pre-plan to stick to the plodding stuff come hell or high water.

But to the victor the spoils.....  Ireland never deserved to win that game playing the way they did.  And Wales certainly deserved playing it their way.

SecretFly wrote:Congratulations to Wales....................... and that old sly dog Gats.  He did the biz on what was needed and to a man the Welsh players answered and gave him what he told them it required.
We were blown of the field on intensity levels needed for this level, which Ireland didn't come close to bringing.  But you can only play what's in front of you and Wales hit everything that moved for the full 80.

I'm not really down at all though - shockingly so but pleasantly so.  I think Ireland have a lot in the tank and probably some that they're not showing yet still.  Part of me thinks this is a rigid Championship pre-plan to stick to the plodding stuff come hell or high water.  

But to the victor the spoils.....  Ireland never deserved to win that game playing the way they did.  And Wales certainly deserved playing it their way.

Deserved a draw, I reckon. The Irish animal at the end there looked in control to me.

Haven't read back..I'm sure there's a load of the usual auld waffle..

Firstly well done Wales - the hungrier, better side won - they won the arial battle and defensively were fantastic, pretty much did to us what we've been doing to other sides so no complaints on the result. Much was made of Ireland being favorites but once Wales beat France this was always going to be the toughest game of the championship.

That said I'm bitterly disappointed the GS is gone, particularly as we had numerous chances to win the game and butchered a number of try scoring chances.

However to come back from 12-0 down to almost win answers a few questions about the side and to keep some perspective this is the 5th time (2003,2007, 2009, 2013) in the pro era I can remember us going into the final weekend with a realistic shot at the title so its not all doom and gloom.

Not enough Dave. Take the plaudits. Your side earned them. We were lilly livered in the first half when we should have offered Wales more of a game.

But Wales were honest enough to say they knew what they needed to do to win and that was close to 90% for every man on the field. They gave their coach the sweat and endeavour required for the full 80 and they earned that victory.

I'm genuinely okay about Ireland. It kinda was needed actually. The rubbish was becoming oppressive in the media. Schmidt himself won't say he's happy - but a part of him will be glad that the crap talk will cool now.

Sidestep wrote:Wow this Rory fella really is coming across bitter and angry . Kinda like those kids in school who pretend they're amused when they're loosing an argument.   Come on son, the rest of the Ireland fans seem to be taking it well enough, dont let the side down, time to man up..

I'm neither bitter nor angry sir.. have a good night.

Why do Ireland have such a large chip on their shoulder about Barnes?

It's so large that it's not just a chip! It's the whole feckin potato!

tigertattie wrote:Why do Ireland have such a large chip on their shoulder about Barnes?

It's so large that it's not just a chip! It's the whole feckin potato!

He's added another bag of them (potatoes) today, poor lad.

tigertattie wrote:Why do Ireland have such a large chip on their shoulder about Barnes?

It's so large that it's not just a chip! It's the whole feckin potato!

Barnes should not have been reefing that game today. Its an absolute joke that he was, bearing in mind that his employer had most to gain if Ireland lost.

Never mind about Barnes.  He showed up because he got a late call to show up.

I want to know why Walsh could say he had business interests that kept him away from a game he had been designated for.  Surely, reffing a 6N game, that he'd have been down for well in advance, had priority over any subsequent engagement.

So the big question remains - Where the fuk was Walsh?

Sin é wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Why do Ireland have such a large chip on their shoulder about Barnes?

It's so large that it's not just a chip! It's the whole feckin potato!

Barnes should not have been reefing that game today. Its an absolute joke that he was, bearing in mind that his employer had most to gain if Ireland lost.

That in an ingenious parody/WUM. Chapeau sir.

Barnes got everything right, apart from the scrum at the end imo.

I only watched the first half yesterday, but from what i see was the Ireland was terrible. they did not front up one bit. Was it down to nerves (playing at the MS) was it because of the pressure Wales put on them? i don't know, but that was the worst game i have seen from Ireland in a long time.


But well played Wales for making the contest wide open. and well done for getting the win.

Oooo it's sore head time this morning.....

I didn't read back much on this thread so excuse me if I repeat what's been said.
Barnes was at his pedantic worst and tried his best to ruin the match as a spectacle. Both sides had to deal with his laughable reffing so we can't blame the final score on him entirely. The scrum decision at the death was odd to say the least as it was clear that Ireland mullered the Welsh scrum despite the ball being fed directly at the feet of the second row.

However, never mind all that. Well done Wales for one hell of a wrestle. It had all the nailbiting and excitement that's required for a saturday afternoon 6 nations match. I had a feeling it would be a very tight match and it was squeeky bum time throughout. Going 12 points behind was silly enough but not taking the points when on offer was terrible decision making seeing as our ealry lineouts were kak.

Anyway, off to nurse this hangover....

Pete330v2 wrote:Oooo it's sore head time this morning.....

I didn't read back much on this thread so excuse me if I repeat what's been said.
Barnes was at his pedantic worst and tried his best to ruin the match as a spectacle. Both sides had to deal with his laughable reffing so we can't blame the final score on him entirely. The scrum decision at the death was odd to say the least as it was clear that Ireland mullered the Welsh scrum despite the ball being fed directly at the feet of the second row.

However, never mind all that. Well done Wales for one hell of a wrestle. It had all the nailbiting and excitement that's required for a saturday afternoon 6 nations match. I had a feeling it would be a very tight match and it was squeeky bum time throughout. Going 12 points behind was silly enough but not taking the points when on offer was terrible decision making seeing as our ealry lineouts were kak.

Anyway, off to nurse this hangover....

But of course the Irish never blame a referee!

2ndtimeround wrote:

But of course the Irish never blame a referee!

Well why not?  Join the party, I say.  The Welsh have an entire warehouse full of ref complaints over their lifetime.  The ref always plays a part in their defeats. So why should Ireland deny itself the luxury?  Why should we miss out on that fun, say I?

Barnes was as poor for both sides but given that Wales were given the yellow card and a penalty try against them he seemed to favour Ireland more.

The game itself was fantastic with the Welsh defence in those 2 periods absolutely outstanding which for me proved to be the difference and the turning point.

I said before the game that I didn't know which way this game would go or how to call but I did say there wouldn't be more than 10 points in it and as I had Wales by 6-10 with Coral I am happy with that as well

Not a fan of Jarvis but given how we had to rejig our front row I thought he done well enough and guessing he will start next week, also thought Evans done well to for his first cap.

The areas I said Ireland would have the advantage were 2nd row and half backs but I thought AWJ and Charteris were both outstanding. As for the hall backs Webbs box kicking still fills me with dread and I thought Murray was poor today, was Sexton fully fit? I don't think he was and he came off second best to Biggar today.

One area where I said we had the advantage was in the centre and Roberts and Davies proved me right and were way ahead of the Ireland pairing in my opinion.

People go on about Wales not having a Plan B, but where was Irelands yesterday, I read earlier in the weak that the aerial approach wouldn't work against Wales but they started with it and it didn't work with Halfpenny, Williams, Roberts and Biggar amazing in the air.

So onto next week and the fact that we are even in with a sniff after the England game is good enough for me.

Bedford, would you say we need to beat Italy by at least 50 points next week to get the championship? Is it doable?

As I said earlier, Barnes was very pedantic for the first 25-30mins but he was consistent. Both teams learnt and as a result, the game got better as a spectacle after. I have no real complaints about him myself, Wales were simply the better team yesterday.

The Saint wrote:Bedford, would you say we need to beat Italy by at least 50 points next week to get the championship? Is it doable?

Saint,

I think its hard to put a points figure on it and first off we have to concentrate on winning the game rather than getting fixated on points but we just have to put as many as we possibly can on them and hope its enough.

I never doubted we would win in Cardiff 2 years ago but I didn't think we would win by enough, history shows otherwise so we just have to hope for the best.

Been having an interesting debate with a few friends and the topic of staggered kick off times has come, I love super Saturday but should all games be played at the same time?

That's what my friend also said about staggered KO times, but he also happens to predominantly be a football fan.

With Lee out and injury doubts to Jenkins, Hibbard and Roberts selection could be interesting next week.

Lets say they are all ruled out I would go for

Evans Baldwin Jarvis
AWJ Charteris
Lydiate Faletau Warburton

Webb Biggar

Li Williams Sc Williams JD North

Halfpenny

Bench would be

LHead prop??? Owens, Francis (get him capped) Ball Tipuric, Phillips, Priestland, Amos

Not sure who the next L/Head prop in line is, Bevington I guess but isn't he injured as well? I would put Amos on the bench then use Nroth as centre cover if needed.

The Saint wrote:That's what my friend also said about staggered KO times, but he also happens to predominantly be a football fan.

It's great that all games can be watched live and I guess it's very rare that all 3 games will have a say in the Championship, first time I can recall it.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

People go on about Wales not having a Plan B, but where was Irelands yesterday, I read earlier in the weak that the aerial approach wouldn't work against Wales but they started with it and it didn't work with Halfpenny, Williams, Roberts and Biggar amazing in the air.

It's we ourselves who recognise that Ireland have become very much a Plan A side (although England kicked more than us for the first two games - and Wales kicked more than us yesterday )  But yes - ours is very much a Plan A in that any attempts at a Plan B can appear downright rusty and unconvincing.  We had quite a bit more variety last year... perhaps because of the more experienced axis at centre.  Not that I'd blame Payne or Henshaw for yesterday.  They're developing fine.  It'll take time with any Centre partnership we finally pick on.

Not happy Wales won, obviously - but my hat goes off to that performance they put in to get it.  But largely content enough with Ireland who needed to do a hell of a lot more to win that game yesterday and yet in the end, despite all the rusty Plan B and non-functioning Plan A, were very close to either stealing it or drawing.  

Bad day at the office (forced by Wales).  But not a disaster.

Fly,

As much as I get surprised by Wales in some games in they way they stick to things when not working I was surprised Ireland stuck to the kicking game. Given Schmidt has proved to be a great tactical coach he must have known how good Wales have been in the air and again I think we won most 50/50 challenges.

Surely now is time for Wales to bring Francis in? Jarvis clearly doesn't belong to this level and the least said about Andrews the better.

They will be mullered against the strong Italian scrum if they start with Jarvis.

SecretFly wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

But of course the Irish never blame a referee!

Well why not?  Join the party, I say.  The Welsh have an entire warehouse full of ref complaints over their lifetime.  The ref always plays a part in their defeats. So why should Ireland deny itself the luxury?  Why should we miss out on that fun, say I?

Why not indeed, its not criticising the ref that's the problem, its the hypocrisy we see from a certain group of posters that thinks its fine when the officiating suits them to make out that the Welsh are just sore losers that will blame anyone but their own team, then repeatedly try to claim the morale high ground by claiming the Irish never blame the officials when they lose. That claim just a week or to back was really prevalent on these boards and has been followed up by not just fans blaming officials but the coaches of 2 provinces claiming that at best Welsh officials are not impartial and at worst they are actually cheating!
I guess this really should be a topic for a different thread but as there were several examples of thinly veiled attacks on Barnes on this thread it seemed a very opportune time to raise the issue. Personally I think there will always be issues with interpretation from different officials but the kind of tirade of comments recently aimed at Welsh posters who have been unhappy with non neutral officials really does need highlighting as the hypocritical kind of BS it actually was.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Fly,

As much as I get surprised by Wales in some games in they way they stick to things when not working I was surprised Ireland stuck to the kicking game.  Given Schmidt has proved to be a great tactical coach he must have known how good Wales have been in the air and again I think we won most 50/50 challenges.

I noted Wales in the air too - from the start of this Championship I've been saying this is no fluke and it's even more intense this season.  These guys are practicing this stuff to snuff somebody's tactics out And I've been impressed.  But yes, if I could see it, so could Schmidt.

There are two things I'll say about it.  Despite what everyone was saying up until this point, our 'catchers' haven't really been nearly as clinical as the media have been saying.  Kearney is way way off his best form.  It's worrying at this point how undercooked he is - and almost timid in his attempts at catching.  Zebo is okay but the catches haven't been as clean as I'd have liked.  Bowe has chosen this season to more tap-back than actually catch - and that's ominous for me because again it hints at a lack of confidence.  So all the talk of Ireland's kick chase for me has been a bit of a non-event in clinical execution of the tactic.  It's been working to a point but the sharpness of the accuracy has actually let us down more than it's aided us.
The other thing I'd say is that Schmidt sees what we see.  The stubbornness of the One 'turgid' way this season is obviously a design, for whatever reasons - perhaps due to a lack of form with certain players but perhaps a slow cook form build up process too.  After all - the time when all sides have to be on their best form is a few months down the line - not today.  So, like you, I say to myself Schmidt must be seeing the limitations and therefore he must have his reasons for them.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Fly,

As much as I get surprised by Wales in some games in they way they stick to things when not working I was surprised Ireland stuck to the kicking game.  Given Schmidt has proved to be a great tactical coach he must have known how good Wales have been in the air and again I think we won most 50/50 challenges.

Except they didn't. With the twice the possession they kicked 11 times to Wales 22. Ireland kicked the ballless in this game than any since Schmidt took over. Instead they ran it which is why Wales broke the record for number of tackles in a 6Ns game (80 more than the old record set by Italy last year)

VinceWLB wrote:Surely now is time for Wales to bring Francis in? Jarvis clearly doesn't belong to this level and the least said about Andrews the better.

They will be mullered against the strong Italian scrum if they start with Jarvis.

I would def put Francis on the bench next week but I didn't think Jarvis got shown up yesterday and given that just after half time we had 2 new props on and our whole front row had a total of 17 caps I thought it went better than it could have.

2ndtimeround wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

But of course the Irish never blame a referee!

Well why not?  Join the party, I say.  The Welsh have an entire warehouse full of ref complaints over their lifetime.  The ref always plays a part in their defeats. So why should Ireland deny itself the luxury?  Why should we miss out on that fun, say I?

Why not indeed, its not criticising the ref that's the problem, its the hypocrisy we see from a certain group of posters that thinks its fine when the officiating suits them to make out that the Welsh are just sore losers that will blame anyone but their own team, then repeatedly try to claim the morale high ground by claiming the Irish never blame the officials when they lose. That claim just a week or to back was really prevalent on these boards and has been followed up by not just fans blaming officials but the coaches of 2 provinces claiming that at best Welsh officials are not impartial and at worst they are actually cheating!

Do you read the Welsh posters who debate those issues you talk about though.  Do you read Chunky and what he says?  Do you read Lord, who claims that because Irish refs are paid by the IRFU, then that means that they are almost duty bound and would feel compelled to give all benefits to Irish sides in clashes with Welsh Regions.  That's not even claiming bias - that's saying money is controlling them - blackmail by the IRFU. Serious allegations.

Now Sin made a humourous point on this or another thread a little while ago (after yesterday's game) that Barnes needed to help his 'employer's' team out.  Throwing the accusation back at the initial taunt.  England needed us to loose to increase their chances, and we get Barnes taking over from Walsh, and Walsh being allowed say he had other arrangements???  Surely the arrangements he had was the priority engagement of an important 6N encounter?  So we can joke about the idea and kick some fun at it at the expense of people like Chunky and Lord who throw the dirt our way.

As Barnes was not really allowing any competition at the breakdown kicking the ball away would not be a great tactic to use, Ireland seemed to respond to the way the breakdown was called by keeping possession more rather than kicking for territory, that for me shows a real strength of Irish rugby in that teams will respond to the way a game is officiated.
By calling the game the way he did yesterday Barnes created the running spectacle we witnessed in the second half and I believe the IRB could do the game a favour by encouraging more of this type of decision making throughout all the officials. Rugby has become a sport were the belief seems to be its ok to cheat if you can get away with it and its in the tight is were this is mostly the case, this ruins the game as a spectacle and clamping down on this will as we have seen yesterday encourage teams to actually run at each other and resort more to a multi phase possession based game instead of the borefest we have these days of territorial kicking and the so called dark arts turning the game into not much of a show.

SF.  I know there are a few OTT posters in the Welsh camp but the points I have been reading have seemed more like broadsides aimed at the Welsh posters in general, even Scarlet Spiderman, who has to be one of the most amiable fellas on any forum anywhere has been receiving some serious flak lately, my opinion has been exacerbated by a visit to the Munster fans forum straight after the draw to get the view of the Munster fans on the game that caused so much of the recent furore into non neutral officials, the stuff I read on there was plainly insulting and could realistically have been viewed as very racist. I choose not to bother responding and have just no bothered visiting again.
I have mixed with Irish fans in bars after games on several occasions and found the people that attend the games to be highly knowledgeable and very friendly, for whatever reason lately after returning to this board I have been left forming a very different view of what appears to be a rapidly deteriorating relationship between 2 sets of fans that have previously reveled in each others company through friendly banter and camaraderie based on the love of a game, its just a shame this seems to be getting lost amongst the squabbling on social media. Though it does sound like the atmosphere in Cardiff was as good as ever.
Let's hope its no more than a little bit of keyboard frustration and passes eh.

Well, 2nd.
The ref gig as it relates to Pro12 - you have to admit - had you read enough on 606 over the years - that the vast majority of 'team' and 'fanbase' baiting has come from Welsh supporters claiming outright bias by Irish refs - week after week after month after month.  It has been a constant noise on 606 over the years in Pro12 terms.

So that's the framework by which the 'mood' between fans here began to part ways.  There is only so much of that constant guff and noise you can take before you fight back.  People are human.  The 'Ref is a Cheat' chat started in the Welsh camp of the Pro12.  And obviously it has escalated in recent months/weeks as a tet-a-tet

The other divisive episode was last year's long, long arguments about the future of Rugby Union on these islands, the ERCC, Heineken, PRL, LNR, Top14 moneybags sides, Irish Provinces cottonwooling their players, Welsh Regional wishes and WRU infighting.

All that was debated endlessly, and it created a lot of bad blood throughout the entire spectrum of rugby support from Ireland to England to Wales to Scotland.  People taunted, people responded to taunts, people insulted, people responded to insults.  So that has played its part in spoiling the mood too.

And finally and obviously - the 2013 Lions has played a part in the deterioration of relationships.  This is not a time to re-debate any of that stuff here other than to acknowledge that bad blood has risen from a number of sources and it'll take time to settle (through years not weeks).

But anyway, the rivalry is strong and that's a good thing.

SF.
Yes the comments on the refs would of been more from the Welsh posters, its been Irish officials controlling the majority of games for some time now, even several of the Scottish officials are apparently Irish really, and this is at a time when the Irish are dominating. There is bound to be sections of fans questioning neutrality.
As for the issue around European rugby, agreeing to join any tournament became the only option for survival the Regions realistically had, it does seem that with the changes at the top in the WRU will finally solve the infighting and this isn't really an issue as every other nation would of been forced to agree to whatever tournament was agreed between the 2 big financial powerhouses eventually anyway.
And the we get to the true crux of it all, Gatland has been unpopular in Ireland since he was deposed as Irish coach, so when he had the audacity to drop the all Ireland rugby god BOD and the guy chosen to replace him was not just Welsh but scored the winning try then!, well what more can I say, this even after 2 years has still left an open and festering wound that is not been allowed to heal.
As for how long it will take to settle, with the constant open dialogue afforded by these type of forums and the bitterness been harboured by certain commentators then I doubt it ever will, let's just hope it doesn't start to spill over into game day situations as it has in football previously.

2ndtimeround wrote:
And the we get to the true crux of it all, Gatland has been unpopular in Ireland since he was deposed as Irish coach, so when he had the audacity to drop the all Ireland rugby god BOD and the guy chosen to replace him was not just Welsh but scored the winning try then!, well what more can I say, this even after 2 years has still left an open and festering wound that is not been allowed to heal.

There you go. Like I say............ it remains an issue. You look at it from a Welsh perspective. Irish fans look at it from their perspectives. "There is bound to be sections of fans questioning neutrality."

So let's just acknowledge the gulf in perceptions from both camps. But the way to serve the divide is not to insult (not talking to you - talking to all sides - Irish and Welsh) but to continue the debates and dialogues that will undoubtedly continue anyway.
Rivalries are rivalries - and without them sport has no history.

Give us a break on Gatland & BOD 2ndtimer - Gatland has wallowed in it as that excuse to cover up his completely Wales biased selections of 10 (would have been 11 players) in the final test against Australia if Warburton was fit.

Why would Gatland be unpoular in Ireland because Ireland didn't renew his contract.  The thing is Gatland has never forgiven us for not renewing his contract. He is the one who has not let that go. Gatland was a very popular coach and Eddie O'Sullivan was blamed for his dismissal. EOS has suffered for that with the Irish public.

He is also the one who came out with the "Welsh hate the Irish' comments. Can you explain what that is all about coming from a coach?

Sin é wrote:Give us a break on Gatland & BOD 2ndtimer - Gatland has wallowed in it as that excuse to cover up his completely Wales biased selections of 10 (would have been 11 players) in the final test against Australia if Warburton was fit.

Why would Gatland be unpoular in Ireland because Ireland didn't renew his contract.  The thing is Gatland has never forgiven us for not renewing his contract. He is the one who has not let that go. Gatland was a very popular coach and Eddie O'Sullivan was blamed for his dismissal. EOS has suffered for that with the Irish public.

He is also the one who came out with the "Welsh hate the Irish' comments. Can you explain what that is all about coming from a coach?

Psst what about that baldy headed Irish guy chatting on TV during the lead up, half time and full time? He HATES Warran just does not have the balls to say it. Can you explain why you are posting BS? Wales beat you. The Lions beat Australia with out bod he was not needed. Well done Mr Gatland.

I'm not the biggest of Gatland fans personally, I was sorry to see Ruddock step down and honestly believe he would of had more success than Gatland has with what is after all a quality group of Welsh players and the result of the Regional structuring and academies set up by Moffett.
I agree he has played a large part in the rift that has grown between both sets of fans, I also think though he was right to bring in JD2 for that game, however I would of preferred it had been handled far more diplomatically than it was at the time. BOD has a god like status among the Irish fans and as it was Gatland that was dropping him it was always going to be even more controversial. Had he still been Ireland coach however I agree the whole setup of the Lions team would of been completely different with the majority of the side having been Irish, that's just the way he is with sticking to what he knows.