The Indian Wells Masters 1000 Thread

[temporary21]

First topic message reminder :

Figured that masters 1000 events deserve their own threads and as such here is your place for all things Indian Wells.

[HM Murdock]

I note that even against a woefully below par Andy, Novak still managed to find a way to get broken when serving for a set.

Why must he keep doing this to us?

[Haddie-nuff]

I note that even against a woefully below par Andy, Novak still managed to find a way to get broken when serving for a set.

Why must he keep doing this to us?

OH yeah ???? and you think YOU have problems ??? join my club

[HM Murdock]

I note that even against a woefully below par Andy, Novak still managed to find a way to get broken when serving for a set.

Why must he keep doing this to us?

OH yeah ???? and you think YOU have problems ??? join my club

You'll just have to console yourself with those 14 slam titles!

[Haddie-nuff]

I note that even against a woefully below par Andy, Novak still managed to find a way to get broken when serving for a set.

Why must he keep doing this to us?

OH yeah ???? and you think YOU have problems ??? join my club

You'll just have to console yourself with those 14 slam titles!

And counting

[Born Slippy]

Why was Murray so bad today? Suddenly serving at 40% and making loads of UEs. Just too much pressure versus Djoker?

[Gerry SA]

Novak must wake up at night in a cold sweat thinking 'how did I lose two Major finals to a stiff like Murray'? The gulf in skill, talent and will to win is polar opposites.

[laverfan]

Who is the blondie with silly glasses?

Were you looking at Gwen Stefani?

[laverfan]

Novak must wake up at night in a cold sweat thinking 'how did I lose two Major finals to a stiff like Murray'? The gulf in skill, talent and will to win is polar opposites.

There is a Laurentian Abyss between Murray (under Lendl) and Murray (under anyone else). Lendl made it possible for Andy to be truly part of Top 4. Lendl may never come back and join Murray again, so Murray needs to keep looking.

[Danny_1982]

BS - he started the match like it was an exhibition, and he was incredibly passive particularly at the start of each set. He lacked intensity and purpose. The forehand looked as bad as it has in a long time.

Novak was rock solid and moved impeccably, but didn't need to get out of 3rd gear.

[Jahu]

Who is the blondie with silly glasses?

Were you looking at Gwen Stefani?

My god, you got it, I just googled here, and remembered the "Don't Speak" song, thought I never knew her name, till you said it

[Gerry SA]

Novak must wake up at night in a cold sweat thinking 'how did I lose two Major finals to a stiff like Murray'? The gulf in skill, talent and will to win is polar opposites.

There is a Laurentian Abyss between Murray (under Lendl) and Murray (under anyone else). Lendl made it possible for Andy to be truly part of Top 4. Lendl may never come back and join Murray again, so Murray needs to keep looking.

Is Murray that mentally weak, that without having Lendl holding his hand, he can't grow a backbone?

[Jahu]

Novak must wake up at night in a cold sweat thinking 'how did I lose two Major finals to a stiff like Murray'? The gulf in skill, talent and will to win is polar opposites.

There is a Laurentian Abyss between Murray (under Lendl) and Murray (under anyone else). Lendl made it possible for Andy to be truly part of Top 4. Lendl may never come back and join Murray again, so Murray needs to keep looking.

Is Murray that mentally weak, that without having Lendl holding his hand, he can't grow a backbone?

Yes, he grew without a father, thats why he needed Lendl a no bullscheize Father figure, not some french baguette.

[It Must Be Love]

Is Murray that mentally weak, that without having Lendl holding his hand, he can't grow a backbone?

Why don't you give him some tips, must take massive cojones to copy and paste the same line again and again on an internet forum.

[It Must Be Love]

Murray before Lendl was mentally strong with the exception of Grand Slam finals, people forget his superb Masters record (beating Federer many times in Masters) and him beating Nadal in USO 2008.

After surgery he's not really come back to his best, he was good at some points in this year's Australian Open, but apart from that he's been poor. Today he lacked belief.

[temporary21]

We gonna do this everytime Murray loses to somebody? Novaks number 1 in the world, Andys 4th, of course theres a gap, the clues in the numbering system. If someone doesnt win every match they play, that doesnt make them mentally weak, under that definition Federer would be pathetic.

This forum really is extraordinarily negative about everything, its little wonder new people never stay...

[Gerry SA]

Is Murray that mentally weak, that without having Lendl holding his hand, he can't grow a backbone?

Why don't you give him some tips, must take massive cojones to copy and paste the same line again and again on an internet forum.

I'm not the one he's paying X amount of money, that's Mauresmo's job...

[Gerry SA]

We gonna do this everytime Murray loses to somebody? Novaks number 1 in the world, Andys 4th, of course theres a gap, the clues in the numbering system. If someone doesnt win every match they play, that doesnt make them mentally weak, under that definition Federer would be pathetic.

This forum really is extraordinarily negative about everything, its little wonder new people never stay...

You're comparing a 33 year old, passed his peak, Federer to Murray?

[Danny_1982]

Mentally weak? No.

After freezing on the big occasion so many times, and be told he's not good enough to win a slam relentlessly by the British media... To then come back and become a multi slam winner in the face of such adversity, no matter how much Lendl assisted, that takes huge mental strength.

However, mentally weak when directly compared to Novak, roger and Rafa? ..... Yes. Without question.

[laverfan]

Murray before Lendl was mentally strong with the exception of Grand Slam finals, people forget his superb Masters record (beating Federer many times in Masters) and him beating Nadal in USO 2008.

After surgery he's not really come back to his best, he was good at some points in this year's Australian Open, but apart from that he's been poor. Today he lacked belief.

It requires consistency to stay at the top. There are many examples. Wawrinka is the latest in that series.

[Silver]

Such a shame that Murray seemed out of ideas today, just got comprehensively outplayed. Novak was excellent and should win tomorrow if he can carry that form through, but Andy seemed lost. I kind of hope that this jolts him out of his apparently complacency regarding his general gameplan. As Craig/Jahu/etc said, he needs to rediscover that aggression and step in. And sort the second serve! No good being bloody-minded about such a glaring weakness.

Federer just a tad too wily and experienced for Raonic, he stole the key games as soon as he saw a few chinks in the armour. I thought Milos played a decent match, though not as good as Brisbane - he'll be back. Fed will need to change it up yet again for the #1 though. Rematch from last year, as well as Dubai...those two really do seem to be significantly above everyone else right now. Going to say Novak in 3, same as last year. Thanks for the input also, HM and socal.

Can't wait for the clay season already. Rafa looking iffy, Novak seemingly set to conquer but you can't count out the mighty King - and could others have a say? Federer's playing lots of clay events this year, and Nishikori/others could make some runs.

[temporary21]

Its all looking a bit grim to be honest. Nadal frankly hasnt picked up enough form, Tsongas out, Cilic is nowhere, Gulbis has wandered off somewhere, Raonic isnt good on clay. Murray needs more work again, Nishikori running himself into the ground.

Tbh the only person looking like competing with Novak is Roger, but his serve is key, and its stunted on clay.

[socal1976]

As for Federer v. Raonic I knew Raonic would most likely lose in this manner. Roger is a tougher match up for him than Nadal. He just has no clue how to return Roger. Federer knows he only needs an odd break to win that match. Plus his slice backhand just tortured the big tall Raonic.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion Socal until yesterday Raonic had never beaten Nadal in five previous meetings

I am not saying that Nadal is a good matchup for Raonic, but I feel like he has more of a look at Nadal than against Federer. I don't even know the H2H, just my analysis of their various strengths or weaknesses gives me the feeling that while neither guy is a good matchup, maybe Nadal is not quite as bad as a Fed match for him.

[laverfan]

Does anyone recall Nadal v Karlovic IW 2011? It was a tough match for Nadal and he was close to the brink winning it in third set TB 7-6(7). Nadal handled big servers very well, but of late with some of his health issues, big servers are more worrisome. Fowler (ESPN) mentioned something about Nadal standing at the "Indian Wells" sign on the court, which gives more time for a return, but widens the angles to be covered.

Isner also played a 5-setter v Nadal @RG, which very few can claim. Clay should give Nadal more confidence. MC and Rome should be good, if Nadal and Djokovic end up in opposite halves.

[Haddie-nuff]

Whilst I do not think Rafa will get back to where he was.. he has improved slowly since his return. He seems happy enough with his progress. A few good match wins on clay will bring back his confidence of that I feel safe in saying

[laverfan]

It would be good to see a confident Nadal. Any physical issues cause derivative mental issues, which can be much harder to overcome compared to physical healing.

[Haddie-nuff]

Precisely the point I was attempting to make yesterday.. he must be plagued with doubts as to where he is in his career physically. He plays for the most part in pain, on his own admission, thus it has to take its toll on his concentration imo

[Haddie-nuff]

This is a very insightful article re Rafa. For those who love him or hate him it is a good read.

http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/ideas/ed-smith/sport-rafael-nadal

[laverfan]

This is a very insightful article re Rafa. For those who love him or hate him it is a good read.

http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/ideas/ed-smith/sport-rafael-nadal

Nadal remains driven by blood, duty, fear of failure. A family of atheist Mallorcans have created the ultimate embodiment of the puritan work ethic, and he never stops thanking them for it. An easier life remains unimaginable.

This makes no sense to me. After having won so much, reference to this type of psychosis is very strange, to say the least. Is this cultural?

[Haddie-nuff]

The cultural thing in Spain is that they have enormous loyalty to their family.
They are driven by the belief that their family is all and everything to them

We have noticed being English, and now living in Canada the huge difference .. family is not  as sacrosanct here or  UK However .. in Rafa's case he was so brutally brought up by Uncle Toni that I fear he is still driven by the fact that if he doesn't obey somehow he will be punished. The family loyalty has been abused by Toni and he continues to abuse it.   I have noticed that Rafa plays better when Toni does not accompany him to tournaments.  He does not seem so nervous..I like many wish he would kick him off his team.. but again its Family one does not do such things in Spain. I point the finger at his parents frankly. Again with Rafa's humility.. how so many times Ive had to listen to the abuse he has received about it being fake.  Believe me I lived in Spain for 14 years.. there is nothing fake about it.It is what it is.  He has been told all his career by Toni  that he is not as good as Roger, that Novak is better than him.. he believes that even though he has achieved what he has. He reads what is said about him in the press  and the accolades he receives from fans and his  peers.. but he still wont or cant believe it.  What sort of brainwashing exercise did Toni perform on that young boy

I do have another article that states all this so it is not my view

[bogbrush]

This is a very insightful article re Rafa. For those who love him or hate him it is a good read.

http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/ideas/ed-smith/sport-rafael-nadal

Nadal remains driven by blood, duty, fear of failure. A family of atheist Mallorcans have created the ultimate embodiment of the puritan work ethic, and he never stops thanking them for it. An easier life remains unimaginable.

This makes no sense to me. After having won so much, reference to this type of psychosis is very strange, to say the least. Is this cultural?

Fear of failure is a supreme motivating force. It drives me in business as hard as other motivations. Not sure I'd call it psychosis though, all motivation is, by definition, a desperate urge to be in a different state.

People should get off Tonis back. Rafa would be nowhere without him.

[Belovedluckyboy]

I don't think Nadal is any easier an opponent than Fed is for Raonic. In fact, Raonic had mentioned that he had the least success vs Rafa and found him to be the one giving him most problems. The Rafa that Raonic faced here is not a confident Rafa, and it still took Raonic so much effort to edge out a win. I do feel that after the first few encounters, where Fed had difficulties beating Raonic (most of their earlier matches went the distance), Fed had somehow figured how to deal with Raonic more effectively, and hence their later encounters were much easier ones for Fed. I would say that both Fed and Rafa are no easy opponents for Raonic, despite Raonic having his big serves.

[Belovedluckyboy]

Rafa may not be back to his usual high level on clay, but he still would be a formidable force when his confidence is back. He may not beat his opponents 6-1, 6-0 anymore on clay, but may still beat them. He's already playing well at IW, though his second serve returns needs improving. He's positive that he's on the right path on his comeback trail. The coming clay season will tell us more...

Rafa comes with a highly competitive spirit, as if it's inborn. His uncle, Miquel Angel had noticed it since Rafa was a child. Rafa as a child was already fighting to win in anything that he played, while other children would start crying after a few attempts without success, child Rafa would fight on even harder. I feel that explains why Rafa enjoys 'sufferings' , it's as if after sufferings, the fruits of his labor taste sweeter! And he probably feels happier after overcoming a tough obstacle to get the result(s) that he desires and wants.

I don't think he's playing and winning just to please his uncle Toni, Rafa has his own mind and knows what he himself wants to achieve. He's not a child anymore and he can make his own decisions and bear the consequences.

[Guest]

So what did I miss last night?

[Jahu]

From tennis nothing, otherwise good girls at Saturday Night parties

[Haddie-nuff]

I don't think he's playing and winning just to please his uncle Toni, Rafa has his own mind and knows what he himself wants to achieve. He's not a child anymore and he can make his own decisions and bear the consequences.

Its not about being a child anymore.  What was instilled in him as a child remains, I  personally can state that as a fact. Consciously or unconsciously, knowingly   or unwittingly what was forced on you then is what helps you, or disables you as an adult. Nadal will have a life after tennis.. but that "force" will remain for the rest of his life. He knows his tennis career has been moulded by his Uncle Toni and has recognised it  but so has his fear of failure.And if recognising that Im on Toni's back then sobeit. Rafa has all the financial security he needs for his future, fear of failure should not be an issue but it will because Toni's legacy will live on.
So we know he is not a child anymore and can make his own decisions... so dont tell me tell Toni !!

[Belovedluckyboy]

Haddie, it seems that you're taking things too personally. We have our opinions and none of us know exactly how Rafa thinks and feels. This 'fear of failure' is just a speculation here, no one knows for sure what Toni has instilled into a young Rafa. What's this ' don't tell me tell Toni'??

[Jahu]

Nobody cares if Nadal is a child or what his cousins do in his private life, especially on Sunday

[Haddie-nuff]

Haddie, it seems that you're taking things too personally.  We have our opinions and none of us know exactly how Rafa thinks and feels. This 'fear of failure' is just a speculation here, no one knows for sure what Toni has instilled into a young Rafa.   What's this ' don't tell me tell Toni'??  

Have you read the article I posted..its not about what I think. Its about the man behind the racquet.

[laverfan]

Fear of failure is a supreme motivating force. It drives me in business as hard as other motivations. Not sure I'd call it psychosis though, all motivation is, by definition, a desperate urge to be in a different state.

It is not the only motivating force. Creativity is a much larger driver. Exhilaration in a sporting activity is its own reward. Edison found 10,000 ways to fail, before the light bulb came on. If such a fear was the only driver, we would all be crawling towards Mt. Everest or trying to win a Grand Slam/MS1000s otherwise 99.99% of us are failures. Knowing one's limitations is not failure, it is wisdom, borne out of experience.

Its not about being a child anymore.  What was instilled in him as a child remains, I  personally can state that as a fact. Consciously or unconsciously, knowingly   or unwittingly what was forced on you then is what helps you, or disables you as an adult.

Being a prisoner of your own childhood is tragic. This is abuse of power given to the abuser. Should UT be blamed for it? If there is constant reinforcement of inadequacy and the parents (Sebastian and Anna) do not recognize it, blame can be equally laid on their steps too. Living with his family is imprisonment, the victim has been convinced that such an arrangement is for their own good (this is classic Stockholm Syndrome). If this is the case, perhaps Nadal needs to find a place of his own, post-Tennis and make his own choices.

I do not want make this sound dark and abject, but Cosa Nostra comes to mind.

[Haddie-nuff]

Fear of failure is a supreme motivating force. It drives me in business as hard as other motivations. Not sure I'd call it psychosis though, all motivation is, by definition, a desperate urge to be in a different state.

It is not the only motivating force. Creativity is a much larger driver. Exhilaration in a sporting activity is its own reward. Edison found 10,000 ways to fail, before the light bulb came on. If such a fear was the only driver, we would all be crawling towards Mt. Everest or trying to win a Grand Slam/MS1000s otherwise 99.99% of us are failures. Knowing one's limitations is not failure, it is wisdom, borne out of experience.

Its not about being a child anymore.  What was instilled in him as a child remains, I  personally can state that as a fact. Consciously or unconsciously, knowingly   or unwittingly what was forced on you then is what helps you, or disables you as an adult.

Being a prisoner of your own childhood is tragic. This is abuse of power given to the abuser. Should UT be blamed for it? If there is constant reinforcement of inadequacy and the parents (Sebastian and Anna) do not recognize it, blame can be equally laid on their steps too. Living with his family is imprisonment, the victim has been convinced that such an arrangement is for their own good (this is classic Stockholm Syndrome). If this is the case, perhaps Nadal needs to find a place of his own, post-Tennis and make his own choices.

I do not want make this sound dark and abject, but Cosa Nostra comes to mind.

You have really grasped the point LF
You could not be more accurate. Only these days it is considered child abuse.
I hope he can have a normal life when he retires with his wife and children .. sadly though the Spaniards appear not only to perpetuate this responsibility and obligations to their family but also to their extended families. Toni has been the pivot of that man's life and I think he will never be mentally free of him, whether he has his physical presence or not.!!

One observation can be noted.. Raf's tics on court, hair, pant-picking etc. Notice him on a practice court and you will see none of it. !!
Are Rafa's constant glances towards his team. looking for coaching?? or looking for approval??? Erm

[Belovedluckyboy]

Oh please, don't talk as if Rafa is being abused as a child. Rafa is a happy guy, a positive guy, if he's under constant or consistent abuse while growing up, then he won't end up being such a positive person. His parents love him a lot, just see how often his father accompanies him around the world. In fact Rafa grows up feeling very well loved, IMO. I once watched Rafa's match vs Davy at Rome 2007; Rafa's father was there watching his son closely. While warming up on court, Rafa almost tripped, he looked up at his father in the stands, his father was watching him all along, and they smiled at each other. His father's eyes were always on the son, and I felt the love there, from father to son. Rafa's mum called him almost everyday, according to Rafa. They love their son, if Toni is being harsh, then Rafa's parents provide the love to balance it, and so Rafa grows up a normal guy.

I do believe Toni is harsh when training Rafa from young, so much so that Rafa lacks confidence, sometimes feeling inadequate. It seems that Toni now realizes this (that Rafa lacks confidence) and Toni these days is trying hard to instill some belief in Rafa, by saying that while Fed and Novak (and Murray) are talented, Rafa is also a talented tennis player.

[Haddie-nuff]

Are you really trying to be obtuse. Who said his parents did or do not love him. You are totally missing the point and another who has not bothered to read the article hey ho

[Jahu]

Keep it up Shrinks, talking about Rafa like you lot grew with him.

Sad.

[Belovedluckyboy]

Rafa's tics, it seems that when he's competing, he'll go through his routine, that of pulling at his shorts, his shirt, touching his hair, his nose, etc and etc. it seems that when playing golf, he also did that once he's seriously competing. I do note that during his charity matches with Fed during end of 2010, Rafa wasn't doing his routine tics, in fact none of those. Oh, during his Abu Dhabi exho too one year, final against Fed, Rafa also didn't do the routine tics.

I think his routine tics is more for him to calm down and think before he serves, but as he grows older now, his routine gets longer, almost unbearable to watch. I feel the longer routine now indicates that he needs more time to think and to calm his nerve, a sigh that he's not confident in his game. I also dislike it when Rafa keeps looking at his player box, it becomes a habit, whether Toni is there or not. I feel he needs encouragement and approval, more than coaching.

[Haddie-nuff]

Keep it up Shrinks, talking about Rafa like you lot grew with him.

Sad.

No its not me that is sad Jahu its you. Every player is  the subject of a huge joke for you.  I dont know him personally but I know a great deal about him and other players as it happens because I want to know the man as well as the tennis player. There are REAL PEOPLE behind those racquets. Yes I have followed Rafa's career and what makes him tick since his beginnings and I do know more than most about the Spanish way of life.They are all human beings ...ALL of them. Not Robots and an objects of ridicule.

[Belovedluckyboy]

Haddie, why keep talking about the article, as if it's wriitten by Rafa himself? Also, please read carefully. I said Rafa's parents love balanced out Toni's harshness, when did I question whether they love him or not? And why must I believe everything written in that article??

If you choose to believe what you want to believe then by all means believe, but that's not what I would believe. To each his/her own, so no need to convince me about what that article wrote.

[Haddie-nuff]

Rafa's tics, it seems that when he's competing, he'll go through his routine, that of pulling at his shorts, his shirt, touching his hair, his nose, etc and etc.  it seems that when playing golf, he also did that once he's seriously competing.  I do note that during his charity matches with Fed during end of 2010, Rafa wasn't doing his routine tics, in fact none of those.  Oh, during his Abu Dhabi exho too one year, final against Fed, Rafa also didn't do the routine tics.  

I think his routine tics is more for him to calm down and think before he serves, but as he grows older now, his routine gets longer, almost unbearable to watch.  I feel the longer routine now indicates that he needs more time to think and to calm his nerve, a sigh that he's not confident in his game.   I also dislike it when Rafa keeps looking at his player box, it becomes a habit, whether Toni is there or not.  I feel he needs encouragement and approval, more than coaching.

Exactly BLB so why should he need approval??? he is the one out there on court. Ill leave you to decide.

[temporary21]

Please stop calling each other sad. Rafas psyche is an interesting point of note. Tics often come out through anxiety, and theyre probably how Rafa calms his nerves before he serves. Tonis the guy who keep him focused and in check. It does sound like Tonis does this by being a pretty harsh taskmaster, which might explain his tics a bit. Rafa proably trusts Tonis judgement massively for his career, so it might be unintuitive for him to make his own calls if theyre not Tonis.

[Haddie-nuff]

Please stop calling each other sad. Rafas psyche is an interesting point of note. Tics often come out through anxiety, and theyre probably how Rafa calms his nerves before he serves. Tonis the guy who keep him focused and in check. It does sound like Tonis does this by being a pretty harsh taskmaster, which might explain his tics a bit. Rafa proably trusts Tonis judgement massively for his career, so it might be unintuitive for him to make his own calls if theyre not Tonis.

[Jahu]

Keep it up Shrinks, talking about Rafa like you lot grew with him.

Sad.

No its not me that is sad Jahu its you. Every player is  the subject of a huge joke for you.  I dont know him personally but I know a great deal about him and other players as it happens because I want to know the man as well as the tennis player. There are REAL PEOPLE behind those racquets. Yes I have followed Rafa's career and what makes him tick since his beginnings and I do know more than most about the Spanish way of life.They are  all human beings ...ALL of them. Not Robots and an objects of ridicule.

Its is sad HN.

Who cares for the personal life and the childhood of the players?

No, you do not know what makes Rafa tick or how UT treated him when he was child, thats just you throwing random imaginations into Rafas life, all in the name of you knowing his life so well and impressing us with your "insider" information.

Don't be such a compulsive obsessive fan, especially on a weekend here, boring us with deep private stuff of a person you know nothing and that apart from you, no one cares or can confirm your comments.

blla blla blla

[Sponsored content]