Wales will not get out of World Cup Group - Robinson

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beshocked wrote:Jimpy England haven't improved obviously.

Chances were created but not taken. England have been sloppy throughout the tournament even against Wales where they could have probably score at least two other tries.

17 breaks and only 3 tries - you don't think finishing is an issue? Should have really stuffed Scotland by 30-40 points.

England overturned the deficit vs the worst side in the competition - that's the bare minimum expected.

The result shouldn't have been in doubt - England were at home, haven't lost to Scotland at Twickenhem in over 30 years.

Sure England have scored more tries than other sides but England have still been wasteful and idiotic in their play. England have to focus on English problems.

My point is if England don't improve their abysmal finishing then Wales will be confident that Gatlandball could well work vs England. England do create and score more tries than the opposition but still not enough. Afterall England lost to Ireland.


Wales had the intensity and ability to take the points on offer vs Ireland, in contrast England did not have the same vs Scotland.

But England's abysmal finishing is the best in the 6N this year

Where do Wales's points come from if Halfpenny isn't playing?

Where was the finishing vs Ireland? Oh right there wasn't any because England got a big fat 0 tries.

Making 17 clean breaks and scoring just 3 tries is poor finishing too.

Oh and which teams do you want to compare your finishing to?

Surely England wants to be matching and surpassing the best sides in the world?

England have not improved since hammering Wales in Cardiff. Anyone thinks they have is oblivious to their shocking performance against Scotland, loss to ireland and meander v Italy.

There is always a shock result in the 6 Nations and we haven't had it yet

Could italy beat Wales with a weakened front row? Unlikely
Will ireland lose two on the tort in Edinburgh? Maybe but i doubt it
Could Franc put one over on England in Twix?

Gwlad wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Thought this thread was about Wales not getting out of the group, anyway Sexton was rubbish. Seems his best in the world tag caused his hubris to overtake his talent…too much fancy pants play in the 10/12 channel, lateral attack and awful kicking

'Thank God!!!' breathes Wales in a sigh of relief

Some of you guys make it seem like you're disappointed Sexton played crap???  Rejoice.  It keeps you in the fight.

No relief. I expected the win and predicted the score.

Good for you. You still needed Sexton to play crap to do it. Relief - your Captain certainly panted enough to tell how hard it was playing Sexton in a rubbish moment.

I think both England and Wales will go through and Aus will be sent packing.

If I were a betting man I would bet on England and Aus going thru

Scotland England. Would the England write ups be as bad had we only made 3 line breaks to go with the 3 tries? (OK probably yes but for different reasons)

I would say that alongside the sharpness in making the breaks in the first place (and the failure in Scotland with the main defence) you have to give credit to Scotland for the quality of their scrambling defense (e.g Hogg)

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Thought this thread was about Wales not getting out of the group, anyway Sexton was rubbish. Seems his best in the world tag caused his hubris to overtake his talent…too much fancy pants play in the 10/12 channel, lateral attack and awful kicking

'Thank God!!!' breathes Wales in a sigh of relief

Some of you guys make it seem like you're disappointed Sexton played crap???  Rejoice.  It keeps you in the fight.

No relief. I expected the win and predicted the score.

Good for you.  You still needed Sexton to play crap to do it.  Relief - your Captain certainly panted enough to tell how hard it was playing Sexton in a rubbish moment.

You are right, Ireland definitely are a One Man Team.

One Man Ireland. Sigh of Relief.

Jimpy wrote:Where do Wales's points come from if Halfpenny isn't playing?.

it might surprise you, but Dan Biggar is just an able deputy for taking kicks as Halfpenny is, infact I would say Biggar is more accurate, but Halfpenny has the distance over Biggar, not by much mind.

Sexton wasn't just crap (sparkling analysis) he was woeful. In fact I have never seen a 10 turn his back away from a breakdown. I had believed the hype - that he deserved his No1 in the world moniker recently - but frankly his performance was one of the worst i have ever seen by an international 10.

TJ wrote:If I were a betting man I would bet on England and Aus going thru

Well it depends on  the odds you got offered, but  yes they are the favourites as they have been for some time. 
Its not that controversial a statement that  Robinson made is it? Maybe  the confidence with which the prediction is worded is a bit  strong but Wales are the least likely to qualify. 
The gap is not big between the teams though/beat anyone on their day/home advantage etc. 

Its a pretty cracking group really.

Gwlad wrote:Sexton wasn't just crap (sparkling analysis) he was woeful. In fact I have never seen a 10 turn his back away from a breakdown. I had believed the hype - that he deserved his No1 in the world moniker recently - but frankly his performance was one of the worst i have ever seen by an international 10.

Thus the smiles and the relief.  Samson didn't perform - Samson got a haircut on the wrong week.  Warburton breathes a big sigh of relief in the press conference.  'We slaughtered them Irish minnows when their God lost his nerve......'

Don't you see the picture you're painting, Gwlad?

lostinwales wrote:Scotland England. Would the England write ups be as bad had we only made 3 line breaks to go with the 3 tries? (OK probably yes but for different reasons)

I would say that alongside the sharpness in making the breaks in the first place (and the failure in Scotland with the main defence) you have to give credit to Scotland for the quality of their scrambling defense (e.g Hogg)

lostinwales if this was a good Scottish side who were chasing a GS it might be a different scenario. Except it's not - Scotland are absolutely devoid of any belief or confidence as well as lacking the personnel and coaching to have a realistic chance of beating England at the moment.

England would have been expecting to break down the defence of currently the worst team in the 6 nations (also when you remember they stuck 6 past the 2nd worst too). Scramble defence by Scotland was good yes but English players just needed to make the correct decisions like passing the ball.

Wales might be a limited side but it didn't stop them beating Ireland. England will need to be in better form and improve their basic skills to beat Wales.

Ireland beat England with a very basic and simple gameplan - Wales with Gatlandball are more than capable of doing the same to England.

England need to make sure they are well prepared for the threat.

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Sexton wasn't just crap (sparkling analysis) he was woeful. In fact I have never seen a 10 turn his back away from a breakdown. I had believed the hype - that he deserved his No1 in the world moniker recently - but frankly his performance was one of the worst i have ever seen by an international 10.

Thus the smiles and the relief.  Samson didn't perform - Samson got a haircut on the wrong week.  Warburton breathes a big sigh of relief in the press conference.  'We slaughtered them Irish minnows when their God lost his nerve......'

Don't you see the picture you're painting, Gwlad?

i think it's you doing the painting, or at the very least attempting to with some rather desperate fumblings, have to say i have seen elephants paint more a more subtle canvas though.

Were Wales relieved to win, yes of course. Ireland threw everything at them (laterally) kicked like donkeys and squandered the set piece. They were too busy trying to dazzle behind the gain line in midfield to worry about how to cross it. And that failure was under Sexton's stewardship. He cost them so much go forward ball that already slow ruck ball was easily defended against by a superb Welsh rush.

Were they relieved Sexton was shockingly awful? Um, one expects so. Did they beat Ireland at their own game and show them up as a One Man Show. Most certainly.

Any team is capable of beating any other, but England have put a couple of good performances in over Wales now.(actually more than a couple, just there was this little, err, 'blip'... in the middle, *sigh.)

For all of Wales' sabre rattling they have been toothless against England

One thing I would say as a neutral it was certainly an absorbing contest and Wales were worthy winners.

Could well be a blessing in disguise for Ireland because it shows that if Ireland's Plan A doesn't work they don't have an answer - plus the lack of tries and poor attack were there all to see.

Ireland have their own problems like England and Wales. We'll see who deals with them best.

Will Wales now believe that Gatlandball is good enough to beat England and Australia?

Gwlad wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Sexton wasn't just crap (sparkling analysis) he was woeful. In fact I have never seen a 10 turn his back away from a breakdown. I had believed the hype - that he deserved his No1 in the world moniker recently - but frankly his performance was one of the worst i have ever seen by an international 10.

Thus the smiles and the relief.  Samson didn't perform - Samson got a haircut on the wrong week.  Warburton breathes a big sigh of relief in the press conference.  'We slaughtered them Irish minnows when their God lost his nerve......'

Don't you see the picture you're painting, Gwlad?

i think it's you doing the painting, or at the very least attempting to with some rather desperate fumblings, have to say i have seen elephants paint more a more subtle canvas though.

Were Wales relieved to win, yes of course. Ireland threw everything at them (laterally) kicked like donkeys and squandered the set piece. They were too busy trying to dazzle behind the gain line in midfield to  worry about how to cross it. And that failure was under Sexton's stewardship. He cost them so much go forward ball that already slow ruck ball was easily defended against by a superb Welsh rush.

Were they relieved Sexton was shockingly awful? Um, one expects so. Did they beat Ireland at their own game and show them up as a One Man Show. Most certainly.

The usual 'spark' from you when bitten.  I can handle the personal bites, Gwlad.  No Shrinking Violet here

The painting you're doing is that Ireland are the One Man Team who fell apart when their God/Fool/Overblown Buffoon fell apart under the pressure of the Welsh.  

To a degree - perfectly true.  

But there was rudderless Ireland - operating under the pressure of their flyhalf collapse - and still giving you guys the game that made Warburton gasp at the memory.  And but for Barnes and his ways, it might have been two penalty tries against you and victory.  All by a team trying to carry their One Man.

That's Ireland as rudderless rubbish with a non-functioning 10.  Not bad by anyone's reckoning.

That's you doing that painting job - into the corner you try to side step now that you know you're in it.  I wonder what the score would have been like had the Welsh 10 collapsed?  Ouch.  Not pretty, that's what it would have been like.

majesticimperialman wrote:Who needs tries when you have Halfpenny and his laser guided boot.

Is that not the problem with Wales though. They seem to rely on the boot of Half Penny, from turn overs and penalties. And also the "DROP GOAL'S" from the boot of Dan Biggar

Is Biggar constantly knocking drop goals over for us then?

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Sexton wasn't just crap (sparkling analysis) he was woeful. In fact I have never seen a 10 turn his back away from a breakdown. I had believed the hype - that he deserved his No1 in the world moniker recently - but frankly his performance was one of the worst i have ever seen by an international 10.

Thus the smiles and the relief.  Samson didn't perform - Samson got a haircut on the wrong week.  Warburton breathes a big sigh of relief in the press conference.  'We slaughtered them Irish minnows when their God lost his nerve......'

Don't you see the picture you're painting, Gwlad?

i think it's you doing the painting, or at the very least attempting to with some rather desperate fumblings, have to say i have seen elephants paint more a more subtle canvas though.

Were Wales relieved to win, yes of course. Ireland threw everything at them (laterally) kicked like donkeys and squandered the set piece. They were too busy trying to dazzle behind the gain line in midfield to  worry about how to cross it. And that failure was under Sexton's stewardship. He cost them so much go forward ball that already slow ruck ball was easily defended against by a superb Welsh rush.

Were they relieved Sexton was shockingly awful? Um, one expects so. Did they beat Ireland at their own game and show them up as a One Man Show. Most certainly.

The usual 'spark' from you when bitten.  I can handle the personal bites, Gwlad.  No Shrinking Violet here

The painting you're doing is that Ireland are the One Man Team who fell apart when their God/Fool/Overblown Buffoon fell apart under the pressure of the Welsh.  

To a degree - perfectly true.  

But there was rudderless Ireland - operating under the pressure of their flyhalf collapse - and still giving you guys the game that made Warburton gasp at the memory.  And but for Barnes and his ways, it might have been two penalty tries against you and victory.  All by a team trying to carry their One Man.

That's Ireland as rudderless rubbish with a non-functioning 10.  Not bad by anyone's reckoning.

That's you doing that painting job - into the corner you try to side step now that you know you're in it.  I wonder what the score would have been like had the Welsh 10 collapsed?  Ouch.  Not pretty, that's what it would have been like.

Thank god you got it at last!

I don't understand why Australia in the majority of media outlets are the banker team to go through. They haven't played consistently well for a long long time and if any Northern Hemisphere side were in the sort of disarray they are in, would be dismissed out of hand. Imagine if either England or Wales were sitting 6th in the World Rankings, brought in a new coach 1 year out from the RWC and had lost to the hosts who are also in their group twice in a row?

There would be no chance people would be putting such blind faith in a team.

On the other hand of separating England and Wales (and Ireland as well), I really think it is up in the air who actually the better side are. Wales are showing the best form but were beaten comfortably at home by the English. While Ireland look like the side who are executing their game plan the best but it is a very limited one. While England have as fairly regularly during Lancaster's reign show glimpses of something that could be a very very good side but never the whole package.

Personally if all 3 sides win on the weekend, whoever lifts the trophy is irrelevant. While its nice for the fans and players does it actually determine who is the best? No, no it doesn't.

These are 3 good sides but they can all equally put in naff performances and not turn up and distinguishing between them and being able to genuinely say with any confidence who is going to beat who on a given day is virtually impossible. (I would actually put South Africa in this category too)

To be fair BS I think plan B did work to a large extent, theres not many occasions the opposition would be able to hold out against that level of relentless attack, and frankly there was an element of "strong refereeing" that stopped the draw. Ireland arguably left  more points on the field than England did..the difference being it was the opposition who kept them out for the most part rather than handling errors or not bothering to pass. Wales had to put in 250 tackles, thats ridiculous.
I watched a side go behind, then adjust their game and strike back hard. It wasnt enough but more often than not it wouldve been. The lineout arguably cost them that game.

I'm fairly confident we will finally beat Australia again in the World Cup. Gatland has been playing the old long game to take their scalp again. Clever man

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Who needs tries when you have Halfpenny and his laser guided boot.

Is that not the problem with Wales though. They seem to rely on the boot of Half Penny, from turn overs and penalties. And also the "DROP GOAL'S" from the boot of Dan Biggar

Is Biggar constantly knocking drop goals over for us then?

As he not dropped 2 in the last 2 games. One against England and one against Ireland.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Who needs tries when you have Halfpenny and his laser guided boot.

Is that not the problem with Wales though. They seem to rely on the boot of Half Penny, from turn overs and penalties. And also the "DROP GOAL'S" from the boot of Dan Biggar

Is Biggar constantly knocking drop goals over for us then?

As he not dropped 2 in the last 2 games. One against England and one against Ireland.

Did we not play in between those games? So no he hasn't

Gooseberry wrote:To be fair BS I think plan B did work to a large extent, theres not many occasions the opposition would be able to hold out against that level of relentless attack, and frankly there was an element of "strong refereeing" that stopped the draw. Ireland arguably left  more points on the field than England did..the difference being it was the opposition who kept them out for the most part rather than handling errors or not bothering to pass. Wales had to put in 250 tackles, thats ridiculous.
I watched a side go behind, then adjust their game and strike back hard. It wasnt enough but more often than not it wouldve been. The lineout arguably cost them that game.

Plan B didn't work because Ireland lost. Wales did make a lot of tackles and were made to work hard - Ireland should have exploited that.

I don't think Ireland had nearly as many chances as England but Ireland could have won the match with more precision agreed. E.g. the greedy prop not getting the ball out to the backs when they had a nice overlap or was Jonathan Davies would say: Numbers!

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Who needs tries when you have Halfpenny and his laser guided boot.

Is that not the problem with Wales though. They seem to rely on the boot of Half Penny, from turn overs and penalties. And also the "DROP GOAL'S" from the boot of Dan Biggar

Is Biggar constantly knocking drop goals over for us then?

As he not dropped 2 in the last 2 games. One against England and one against Ireland.

Did we not play in between those games? So no he hasn't

I think the other two people either slept through or are best forgotten, so lets go with "last 2"

Gwlad wrote:Sexton wasn't just crap (sparkling analysis) he was woeful. In fact I have never seen a 10 turn his back away from a breakdown. I had believed the hype - that he deserved his No1 in the world moniker recently - but frankly his performance was one of the worst i have ever seen by an international 10.

If that's true, I can only conclude you haven't been watching rugby long.

beshocked wrote:Where was the finishing vs Ireland? Oh right there wasn't any because England got a big fat 0 tries.

Making 17 clean breaks and scoring just 3 tries is poor finishing too.

Oh and which teams do you want to compare your finishing to?

Surely England wants to be matching and surpassing the best sides in the world?

2 tries disallowed vs ireland. 1 ciorrectly. 1 incorrectly.

england made twice as many line breaks as ireland with less possession.

so you're wrong that england havent improved.

we are much more dangerous in the backs than last year. replacing farrell, ashton and burell (at 13) with ford, watson and jj has made a profound difference to how dangerous we are in attack. plus nowell is much stronger this year than last year.

and we have lawes and launch coming back into the 2nd row.

all unambiguous reasons for optimism in my opinion.

I have said all along that I think this group will be decided on points difference with Wales, Australia and England all beating each other.

We (Wales) have a good chance to set our stall out from the off and hopefully racking up a fair whack against Uruguay but we always start tournaments slow so let's hope we can change that trend.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Sexton wasn't just crap (sparkling analysis) he was woeful. In fact I have never seen a 10 turn his back away from a breakdown. I had believed the hype - that he deserved his No1 in the world moniker recently - but frankly his performance was one of the worst i have ever seen by an international 10.

If that's true, I can only conclude you haven't been watching rugby long.

And i can only conclude you don't have a clue

I don't think Sexton was fully fit, he looked off the pace from the start but when your game plan evolves around won player so much then you play him and hope for the best.

It didn't work this week but Sexton is still one of the best in the game at the moment.

Gwlad wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Sexton wasn't just crap (sparkling analysis) he was woeful. In fact I have never seen a 10 turn his back away from a breakdown. I had believed the hype - that he deserved his No1 in the world moniker recently - but frankly his performance was one of the worst i have ever seen by an international 10.

If that's true, I can only conclude you haven't been watching rugby long.

And i can only conclude you don't have a clue

Either you haven't been watching rugby long, or you're lying for effect. It's one of the two.

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Jimpy England haven't improved obviously.

Chances were created but not taken. England have been sloppy throughout the tournament even against Wales where they could have probably score at least two other tries.

17 breaks and only 3 tries - you don't think finishing is an issue? Should have really stuffed Scotland by 30-40 points.

England overturned the deficit vs the worst side in the competition - that's the bare minimum expected.

The result shouldn't have been in doubt - England were at home, haven't lost to Scotland at Twickenhem in over 30 years.

Sure England have scored more tries than other sides but England have still been wasteful and idiotic in their play. England have to focus on English problems.

My point is if England don't improve their abysmal finishing then Wales will be confident that Gatlandball could well work vs England. England do create and score more tries than the opposition but still not enough. Afterall England lost to Ireland.


Wales had the intensity and ability to take the points on offer vs Ireland, in contrast England did not have the same vs Scotland.

But England's abysmal finishing is the best in the 6N this year

Where do Wales's points come from if Halfpenny isn't playing?

Dan Biggar

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Jimpy England haven't improved obviously.

Chances were created but not taken. England have been sloppy throughout the tournament even against Wales where they could have probably score at least two other tries.

17 breaks and only 3 tries - you don't think finishing is an issue? Should have really stuffed Scotland by 30-40 points.

England overturned the deficit vs the worst side in the competition - that's the bare minimum expected.

The result shouldn't have been in doubt - England were at home, haven't lost to Scotland at Twickenhem in over 30 years.

Sure England have scored more tries than other sides but England have still been wasteful and idiotic in their play. England have to focus on English problems.

My point is if England don't improve their abysmal finishing then Wales will be confident that Gatlandball could well work vs England. England do create and score more tries than the opposition but still not enough. Afterall England lost to Ireland.


Wales had the intensity and ability to take the points on offer vs Ireland, in contrast England did not have the same vs Scotland.

But England's abysmal finishing is the best in the 6N this year

Where do Wales's points come from if Halfpenny isn't playing?

Dan Biggar - one of, if not the best percentage goal kicker in the club game (if he's 2nd, it will be to Halfpenny) .

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Sexton wasn't just crap (sparkling analysis) he was woeful. In fact I have never seen a 10 turn his back away from a breakdown. I had believed the hype - that he deserved his No1 in the world moniker recently - but frankly his performance was one of the worst i have ever seen by an international 10.

If that's true, I can only conclude you haven't been watching rugby long.

And i can only conclude you don't have a clue

Either you haven't been watching rugby long, or you're lying for effect. It's one of the two.

That Italian 10 is worse, but that was certainly Sexton's worst game in years.

lostinwales wrote:Any team is capable of beating any other, but England have put a couple of good performances in over Wales now.(actually more than a couple, just there was this little, err, 'blip'... in the middle, *sigh.)

For all of Wales' sabre rattling they have been toothless against England

When? Before the RWC we beat you 3 times consecutively. Then after the RWC we had beaten you 3 times consecutively... If it wasn't for our slumps in form we wouldn't have lost a single game...

The Saint wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Sexton wasn't just crap (sparkling analysis) he was woeful. In fact I have never seen a 10 turn his back away from a breakdown. I had believed the hype - that he deserved his No1 in the world moniker recently - but frankly his performance was one of the worst i have ever seen by an international 10.

If that's true, I can only conclude you haven't been watching rugby long.

And i can only conclude you don't have a clue

Either you haven't been watching rugby long, or you're lying for effect. It's one of the two.

That Italian 10 is worse, but that was certainly Sexton's worst game in years.

Yeah, you would have to have missed any game played by Kelly Haimona to make that claim.

The Saint wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Any team is capable of beating any other, but England have put a couple of good performances in over Wales now.(actually more than a couple, just there was this little, err, 'blip'... in the middle, *sigh.)

For all of Wales' sabre rattling they have been toothless against England

When? Before the RWC we beat you 3 times consecutively. Then after the RWC we had beaten you 3 times consecutively... If it wasn't for our slumps in form we wouldn't have lost a single game...

Thats what we all say...

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Sexton wasn't just crap (sparkling analysis) he was woeful. In fact I have never seen a 10 turn his back away from a breakdown. I had believed the hype - that he deserved his No1 in the world moniker recently - but frankly his performance was one of the worst i have ever seen by an international 10.

If that's true, I can only conclude you haven't been watching rugby long.

And i can only conclude you don't have a clue

Either you haven't been watching rugby long, or you're lying for effect. It's one of the two.

Lying? Embellishing perhaps but lying is a tad strong don't you think? I said one of, not a definitive 'the worst performance' so remove your head from my as and just accept i have my own point of view, just my opinion, subjective, personal and my own. One of the worst performances by an international 10 i have ever seen. There, i just said it again.

I want nothing to do with your 'as'.

History would say England and Australia to go through, form would probably say England and Wales. But beating Australia seems to be a huge millstone for Wales to get past.

For what it's worth, I think the difference between Ireland's performance against England and against Wales was down to the refereeing of the breakdown. Joubert was happy with the way Ireland pile through, Barnes was not. I don't have the stats, but if you look at breakdown penalties I suspect there will be a definite pattern in favour of the home teams in each game (not implying bias, just that it happened to be more in tune with the team that happened to be at home).

For me, it really worries me that two very good refs can have such a huge influence on the game with their different interpretations.

The Saint wrote:
When? Before the RWC we beat you 3 times consecutively. Then after the RWC we had beaten you 3 times consecutively... If it wasn't for our slumps in form we wouldn't have lost a single game...

When?

LondonTiger wrote:

The Saint wrote:
When? Before the RWC we beat you 3 times consecutively. Then after the RWC we had beaten you 3 times consecutively... If it wasn't for our slumps in form we wouldn't have lost a single game...

When?

Actually when did you beat us 3 times consecutively after RWC 11 either?

beshocked wrote:Where was the finishing vs Ireland? Oh right there wasn't any because England got a big fat 0 tries.

Making 17 clean breaks and scoring just 3 tries is poor finishing too.

Oh and which teams do you want to compare your finishing to?

Surely England wants to be matching and surpassing the best sides in the world?

Okay, so if we apply your own logic to that result, Scotland were 'trounced' (because Ireland 'trounced' England by 10 points). Yet, Ireland lost to Wales who England had already beaten.

Did England 'trounce' Scotland? Surely they must have done? I am still trying to see how England 'struggled' past Scotland when we apply your twisted logic.

The bookies had England to win by 13 points, they won by 12, pretty close really. Never were England going to put 30 - 40 points on Scotland - only a few numpties on here thought they might - or dare I say it, are suggesting they should have.

Which is it to be? You can't have it both ways.

quinsforever wrote:

beshocked wrote:Where was the finishing vs Ireland? Oh right there wasn't any because England got a big fat 0 tries.

Making 17 clean breaks and scoring just 3 tries is poor finishing too.

Oh and which teams do you want to compare your finishing to?

Surely England wants to be matching and surpassing the best sides in the world?

2 tries disallowed vs ireland. 1 ciorrectly. 1 incorrectly.

england made twice as many line breaks as ireland with less possession.

so you're wrong that england havent improved.

we are much more dangerous in the backs than last year. replacing farrell, ashton and burell (at 13) with ford, watson and jj has made a profound difference to how dangerous we are in attack. plus nowell is much stronger this year than last year.

and we have lawes and launch coming back into the 2nd row.

all unambiguous reasons for optimism in my opinion.

I wouldn't say England have improved necessarily (but there's some seriously flawed logic going on in the minds of some people here). But then, who else has improved if England haven't? The table would suggest a very close contest.

England have done rather well actually - despite being (in my opinion) now held back by an indifferent coaching staff.

quinsforever you say England have improved. I don't think they have.

I thought England played better in last year's 6 nations.

So far it's 11 tries for England in 2015 in 4 matches, England got 14 tries in 2014 in 5 matches.

To surpass last year - England will need to score 4 tries vs France - I will concede England might have improved if they can do that.

England also had a much better points difference and have conceded the same amount of points in 5 games that the 2015 team has conceded in 4.


Jimpy sometimes some teams are winning comfortably then ease off - making a match look closer than it was. Sometimes scorelines do flatter sides.

You're not very good at listening are you? Scotland were beating England at one point. England weren't ever close to beating Ireland. England only pulled away from Scotland very late on the match. Ireland in comparison were comfortably ahead of England for the entire match. I would say that Ireland's win was more comfortable on this basis. England managed to get within 10 of Ireland because Ireland lost their star man on the day and lost shape.

You say England were never going to put 30-40 on Scotland - easy to say that with hindsight isn't it! England beat Italy by 30, beating Scotland by a similar margin was not unrealistic.

It was a hugely frustating performance from England.

I was more happy with England in the 2014 6 nations bar the game vs France.

We'll see what England do vs France.

beshocked wrote:quinsforever you say England have improved. I don't think they have.

I thought England played better in last year's 6 nations.

So far it's 11 tries for England in 2015 in 4 matches, England got 14 tries in 2014 in 5 matches.

To surpass last year - England will need to score 4 tries vs France - I will concede England might have improved if they can do that.

England also had a much better points difference and have conceded the same amount of points in 5 games that the 2015 team has conceded in 4.


Jimpy sometimes some teams are winning comfortably then ease off - making a match look closer than it was. Sometimes scorelines do flatter sides.

You're not very good at listening are you? Scotland were beating England at one point. England weren't ever close to beating Ireland. England only pulled away from Scotland very late on the match. Ireland in comparison were comfortably ahead of England for the entire match. I would say that Ireland's win was more comfortable on this basis. England managed to get within 10 of Ireland because Ireland lost their star man on the day and lost shape.

You say England were never going to put 30-40 on Scotland - easy to say that with hindsight isn't it! England beat Italy by 30, beating Scotland by a similar margin was not unrealistic.

It was a hugely frustating performance from England.

I was more happy with England in the 2014 6 nations bar the game vs France.

We'll see what England do vs France.

Holy cerrrapppp! if that isn't irony personified, I don't know what is!

So who trounced who? I'M questioning YOUR logic as to how you've come up with your opinion. Would you also mind telling me that last time England scored in excess of 30 - 40 points playing Scotland and what led you to believe it was possible this time out? Scotland are much improved this year from last. They were unlucky against Wales, they may still turn Ireland over - despite their lowly table position, they weren't simply going to turn up and roll over were they?

It has been very up and down. We have had 2 games now where we completely shut down an opponent for a full half, and then a game against Italy where they scored 3 tries against us. We have finished in better shape than our opponents every game, but twice started badly and once got shut out so successfully that the end of the game was an irrelevance.

We have managed to look dangerous ball in hand in every game we have played, but have consistently failed to put away chances we have made, and failed to make any headway against Ireland.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think Australia and England are favourites to go through at the expense of Wales, but I wouldn't put a penny on it.

I agree. Its very close