Scotland World Cup look ahead and squad

First topic message reminder :

A. WORLD CUP WARM-UP MATCHES:

                                
15 August 2015:Ireland v Scotland, Dublin.

                              
22 August 2015:  Italy v Scotland, Turin.

                                 
29 August 2015:  Scotland v Italy, Edinburgh

                                      
05 September 2015: France v Scotland, Paris

B. WORLD CUP POOL MATCHES

                                         
23 September 2015:  Scotland V Japan, Kingsholm - Gloucester.

                                        
27 September 2015:  Scotland v USA, Elland Road - Leeds.

                                        
03 October 2015:  Scotland v South Africa, St James Park - Newcastle.

                                     
10 October 2015:  Scotland v Samoa, St James Park - Newcastle.

C. EXTENDED SCOTLAND SQUAD

- FORWARDS (25) -

Prop (7):
Mike Cusack (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 44 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped
Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons) – 4 caps

Hooker (3):
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 85 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped

Second-row (6):
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 8 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Richie Gray (Castres) – 44 caps
Jim Hamilton (Saracens) – 61 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors) – 15 caps
Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps

Back-row (9):
Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
John Barclay (Scarlets) – 43 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Hugh Blake (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Blair Cowan (London Irish) – 11 caps
David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps
Josh Strauss (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) – 44 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap

- BACKS (21) -

Scrum-half (4):
Chris Cusiter (Sale Sharks) – 70 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby) – 5 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester) – 39 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps

Stand-off (3):
Ruaridh Jackson (Wasps) – 25 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps

Centre (6):
Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps
Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 12 caps
Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)

Back-three (8):
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps
Damien Hoyland (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped
Rory Hughes (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 93 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sean Maitland (London Irish) – 15 caps
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) – 4 caps
Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 18 caps

tigertattie wrote:

BigGee wrote:Whether RV gets into the squad may depend on how much game time he gets for Glasgow between now and the end of the season. Will Toonie let him play at 12 over Horne when the 2 FH's are fit again. He does seem to be getting better as he plays more but it may be that this WC comes too soon. The fact that we are now considering him as a contender does suggest that his move to centre can be considered a success.

Barclay did not standout on Saturday, nothing there to suggest that he is the answer to our problems. The standout OS was the Welsh guy, with Watson not far behind him. Both unfortunately may be deemed to small for international rugby.

I think we will only take 1 OS in the WC squad and the smart money would be on Cowan. Strauss, Denton and Ashe will all go as well with Harley making up the numbers due to his versatility.

Care to expand on that? I've heard rumours that he can play in the 2nd row but Brown, for example, can play anywhere in the back row!

Harley is a good old fashioned chopper! Unfortuantly he is not on form at the moment and that chopping roll is starting to go from the game!

No.8's and Blind sides we are not short of with Ashe, Strauss and Denton, I don't think Brown is going to leap frog any of them. Cowan will go as an OS, I think he had a decent 6N as well and was definitely one of our better players. That just leaves one spot, do you take another specialist OS such as Watson, or Harley, who can play both sides, but is primarily a BS, or Brown or Barclay, who you could also say are all rounders (Barclay, despite being touted by many as the best OS in history, plays mainly at No.8 for Scarlets these days).

Harley did not have a great 6N, but was playing brilliantly before he was injured. If he gets his form back over the rest of the season, then I still think he will get the final shout.

I think VC and probably a lot of other coaches will see 2 OS specialists in the squad as a luxury they can't afford. It is an option though and it is up to those players to make their case. Watson did a pretty good job at the weekend.

BigGee wrote:The standout OS was the Welsh guy, with Watson not far behind him. Both unfortunately may be deemed to small for international rugby.

Going by the (probably unreliable) stats I can find online, Watson is pretty much the same size as Ross Rennie, which for me says he's certainly not too small to have a real impact at international level. He's got some work to do to get near Rennie's skills at the breakdown, but Watson's work around the park in terms of playing as a link man and running support lines is already very good indeed, so I believe he's got a big future for Scotland.

Watson isn't the biggest at 6ft 1 and 98kg (apparently) but has a reputation for being one of the strongest players at the club. He is also one of the fittest.

He reminds me of a more dynamic Ross Rennie - great upper body strength. If he can become as prolific as Rennie or Barclay in the turnovers then he will be a very good 7.

Need to see more of him at International level though to see if his lack of bulk will be a problem. If you want to play a fast tempo game though he really is the man for it.

Don't you Scots ever learn ? You have only got two pro sides and you keep filling them with NSQ players edinburgh are becomming a joke for this :-

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/67484900/highlanders-cocaptain-nasi-manu-leaving-for-scotland

LordDowlais wrote:Don't you Scots ever learn ? You have only got two pro sides and you keep filling them with NSQ players edinburgh are becomming a joke for this :-

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/67484900/highlanders-cocaptain-nasi-manu-leaving-for-scotland

To be fair it's probably a one in one out, with Leonardi likely to be on the way out, but I do agree with you. We have two young players in Ritchie (6) and Bradbury (8) and I do hope this arrival doesn't prevent them from getting early exposure to pro rugby. We already have Coman and Du Preez as back row options, both also NSQ, and whilst both will become SQ next year (I think), it would be awful if at any point next year we fielded an entirely NSQ back row.

On the plus side this guy does look to be a really good player. What is worse than signing an NSQ player is signing a rubbish NSQ player, and we've had a fair few of those over the years.

funnyExiledScot wrote:On the plus side this guy does look to be a really good player. What is worse than signing an NSQ player is signing a rubbish NSQ player, and we've had a fair few of those over the years..

I suppose so, but I would not be very pleased if the Welsh regions were scouring the world for players that could become qualified in a few years.

LordDowlais wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:On the plus side this guy does look to be a really good player. What is worse than signing an NSQ player is signing a rubbish NSQ player, and we've had a fair few of those over the years..

I suppose so, but I would not be very pleased if the Welsh regions were scouring the world for players that could become qualified in a few years.

That's a separate issue I think. It may leave a bad taste, but I do not blame the SRU for using the rules to our advantage in order to expand our playing resources. The rules could be changed, and I would support that.

A couple of thoughts from the Weekend games. Hamish Watson and Ritchie Vernon - have they put their hands up for a WC place? SHC must be pushing for the starters berth as well

SH-C has been pushing all season. I think Cotter will stick with Cowan at 7, but if Dunbar doesn't make it back in time then Richie V certainly has a strong case.

I can almost see RV as a supersub given he can play back row or in the backs. I have always rated him as a player - I just wish he had converted to centre earlier

SHC has had a decent season but at the weekend to me for the first time he rally looked the part. Great performance

I'd say Sam H-C put his hand up for selection after the 1872 cup triumph!

I am a glutton for punishment

Just booked Scotland vs South africa tickets in the official re-sale

Riskysports wrote:I am a glutton for punishment

Just booked Scotland vs South africa tickets in the official re-sale

Riskysports wrote:I am a glutton for punishment

Just booked Scotland vs South africa tickets in the official re-sale

How in the name of all that's holy did you get onto the site?
Been queuing for over 4 hours & still haven't got on

I went on at about 8.30am and left when it said the games at Kingsholm were all sold out

Went on at 10.34 - had it running in the back ground for many meetings and finally got on at 1.30

All Scottish games except first one had tickets

Incredibly expensive tickets I'm assuming?

All face value I think.

Tbh, the decision to have the Japan game in Gloucester (17,000 I think) is ridiculous. Japan also play USA there. Surely they could have guessed there would be a higher demand for our game. Why not Villa Park?

Even Canada v Romania is at Leicester City (32,000).

Not that expensive. I got tickets for myself and my daughter to the Samoa game for £70 (inc. ridiculous booking fee). Took 2 hours but worth the wait in my view.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Incredibly expensive tickets I'm assuming?

Face value - paid with Mastercard, so no booking fee

Was £50, £85. £110 and £125 tickets available

Finally got through - cheapest Samoa tickets £115.

Bugger that.

I got Samoa tickets in the first draw, reckon that'll be enough. Watching us against South Africa will be purgatory!

Scotland's world cup pre-season has been announced:

Training camp

15-17 June: BT Murryfield

18-23 June: Font Romeu


23 June-August: Skills and conditioning at BT Murrayfield

Warm-up games

Sat 15 Aug: Ireland (A) Dublin

Sat 22 Aug: Italy (A) Turin

Sat 29 Aug: Italy (H) BT Murrayfield

Sat 5 Sep: France (A) Paris

RWC 2015 Pool stages

Wed 23 Sep: Scotland v Japan, Kingsholm (kick-off 2.30pm)

Sun 27 Sep: Scotland v USA, Elland Road (kick-off 2.30pm)

Sat 3 Oct: South Africa v Scotland, St James Park (kick-off 4.45pm)

Sat 10 Oct: Samoa v Scotland, St James Park (kick-off 2.30pm)

So a 15th of June start. Not much of a break for the Edinburgh players if they finish 7th in the league and have to fight there way towards the playoff final at the end of May (which could be quite likely). Even more likely, the Pro 12 final is also the last weekend in May so if Glasgow reach the final they also won't have much of a break! So we could be going into our world cup preparations with the majority of the squad only having 2 weeks break between seasons.

Obviously there are some big assumptions on results for the remainder of this season.

p.s. if this is announcement is an April fool in some way then it is a really, really bad one!

Another signing for you lot, but at least this time his father is Scottish:-

Rugby League full-back Kevin Locke has reportedly been targeted for a move to Union to play for Scotland, according to reports.

Locke played for the Warriors and New Zealand in League before moving to England to join the Salford City Reds last year.

Talks between the Scottish Rugby Union and the player are now believed to be underway, after Salford owner Marwan Koukash gave permission for the two parties to enter discussions.

Locke made eight appearances for New Zealand between 2011-2013, including in the Rugby League World Cup Final two years ago.

This is fairly old news, unless something has changed.

There was a lot of press about it at the time and the man himself sent several tweets saying it wasn't happening.

It eventually fell through.

RDW_Scotland wrote:This is fairly old news, unless something has changed.

There was a lot of press about it at the time and the man himself sent several tweets saying it wasn't happening.

It eventually fell through.

Sorry, it must be old news then. I am only just reading about it this morning.

For some Odd reason optiumism is returning for me. I think its the number of quality young players coming thru - if we can find the leadership and play as a real team we should move up a step. am I just deluded?

TJ wrote:For some Odd reason optiumism is returning for me.  I think its the number of quality young players coming thru - if we can find the leadership and play as a real team we should move up a step.  am I just deluded?

Yes.

Always remember,

A post mortem requires something to be dead. Scottish rugby may have had a few cardiac arrests but it's pretty tough. A change of thinking at the SRU is needed.

TJ wrote:For some Odd reason optiumism is returning for me.  I think its the number of quality young players coming thru - if we can find the leadership and play as a real team we should move up a step.  am I just deluded?

That's what being a Scotland fan is always about, optimism always returns, it has to, deluded or not!

What do people think about Tom Brown's chances for the RWC as a possible bolter?

There are currently 3 fit wingers - Seymour, Fife, Visser and Hogg at FB. Suppose also that Weir and Jackson are not quite match fit.

Does Tom Brown sneak in to cover FB/Wing?

Hopefully not.  I'd say he's probably 6th choice wing and 5th choice fullback.  There would need to be a lot of injuries for him to be involved!

He certainly gives his all and is fearless, bordering on reckless with what he does to himself on the pitch, but he's not an international class winger.

He's also not been in Edinburgh squads much this year.

Its just that since the 6N ( which altho rubbish in terms of results contained 3 near misses) Glasgow and Edinburgh are both doing well. SHC has continued to show great form, Hamish the coo is looking like a mighty fine player and gives more back row options. cotter now must be clear what the issues are - teamwork and leadership. Surely the only way is up. Is that light at the end of the tunnel or is it an oncoming train?

No, Brown is fine at club level but he's not an international prospect in my book.

My prediction is that Cotter will take Visser, Seymour, Maitland and Hogg, with Tonks as 3rd choice fly half and cover at 15, and Bennett as notional cover at wing, with Dunbar, Scott and Taylor also going as specialist centres.

If he takes a 4th winger it'll be between Lamont and Fife - neither would add much to the squad for me. Lamont would be a sentimental pick, a nod to the Weegies whose bottom lips are still quivering over the Ruck Inspector retiring, and Fife is really little more than serviceable at international level.

My WC backs (14):

9. SH-C, Laidlaw and Cusiter
10. Russell, Weir and Tonks
11/14. Visser, Maitland and Seymour
12/13. Scott, Dunbar, Bennett and Taylor
15. Hogg

Is Dunbar expected to be back in time?

If so, it's going to be tight for him to get back and he'll be shy of match fitness. Would be good if he does make it.

Also not that he was probably expected to be involved but Low is out for the rest of the season, so his (slim) world cup hopes are probably over.

If Dunbar doesn't get in then I'd take Peter Horne, with 13 covered by Bennett and Taylor.

funnyExiledScot wrote:No, Brown is fine at club level but he's not an international prospect in my book.

My prediction is that Cotter will take Visser, Seymour, Maitland and Hogg, with Tonks as 3rd choice fly half and cover at 15, and Bennett as notional cover at wing, with Dunbar, Scott and Taylor also going as specialist centres.

If he takes a 4th winger it'll be between Lamont and Fife - neither would add much to the squad for me. Lamont would be a sentimental pick, a nod to the Weegies whose bottom lips are still quivering over the Ruck Inspector retiring, and Fife is really little more than serviceable at international level.

My WC backs (14):

9. SH-C, Laidlaw and Cusiter
10. Russell, Weir and Tonks
11/14. Visser, Maitland and Seymour
12/13. Scott, Dunbar, Bennett and Taylor
15. Hogg

Could be pretty close with that selection. I think obviously a lot will depend if Dunbar is fit or not.
Out of the players selected there I think Taylor may miss out and Vernon selected instead. I think Vernon may go for his added value with also being able to cover back row!
In the past they have normally taken just 2 stand offs and think they will probably go the same aswell.
Still not sure what the official squad size's are, does anyone know yet if it is 31 or 32?

Ritchie Vernon needs to go to the WC IMO even if as supersub covering back row and centres. He would give us an easy way out of the bench dilemma - of how many forwards to put on the bench

Also no to Brown (Tom) being involved. He tries hard, but isn't at the level where he would cope at International level.

I would be taking Taylor as a centre, and to be honest with 14 backs picked I think we could afford to take enough specialist back row cover. That said, Vernon is playing well and I wouldn't be too unhappy were he to go ahead of Taylor.

The reason I take Tonks is because he covers 15 better than Horne, and I don't want Maitland anywhere other than on the right wing.

I think Tom Brown is a very good player, the season he burst through which was during the European run he was excellent at 15 and deserved his Scotland cap.
He had a poor second season and never really kicked on due to lack of game time and injuries.
When he has played this season he has put in good performances and has scored a few tries as well. I think the world cup comes too soon for him but if he can get a good run of games together next season then he could challenge as he certainly has the potential to be good enough.
I do think his best position is on the wing though and probably not at full back as his kicking from hand isn't the strongest part of his game.

I know I said in the banter thread that Vernon could be a bolter, but I think we need him to show his recent form for a bit longer before we state he's going to be in the squad.

Fingers crossed he continues this form for the rest of the season and show's he's worthy of a place.

I think Horne will go due to his versatility, we'll probably need him in the centre. Tonks will probably go as well due to his ability to cover 10 & 15.

I'm not sure on Taylor. Not that I don't think he's a decent player, but he's not been involved in the Scotland setup for a while (possibly injured?) which makes me wonder if he's not rated by the coaches.

I think Brown is a good option for Edinburgh to hold onto, but I don't think he's an international prospect. His broken field running isn't exciting enough to overcome my concerns over his lack of size and power. I'd probably put in the same bracket as Lee Jones.

I love his committment, which may be enough for Glasgow fans, but I'm looking for more.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think Brown is a good option for Edinburgh to hold onto, but I don't think he's an international prospect. His broken field running isn't exciting enough to overcome my concerns over his lack of size and power. I'd probably put in the same bracket as Lee Jones.

I love his committment, which may be enough for Glasgow fans, but I'm looking for more.

Saying that though his broken field running in his first season at Edinburgh was first class. He ripped quite a few opposition teams open with his running from deep. His speed is very good and I don't think he is overly lacking in size. He'll be just under 6ft and is pretty well built, he certainly knows how to defend as well.

I think the thing with Brown is just getting a good run of games without the niggly little injuries he has been unfortunate with. I think while a lot of players are away at the world cup could be his time to really put down a marker for Edinburgh again and get that form back from his first season.

Well hopefully he can prove you right during the World Cup, as he should get a run of games at that point.

funnyExiledScot wrote:No, Brown is fine at club level but he's not an international prospect in my book.

My prediction is that Cotter will take Visser, Seymour, Maitland and Hogg, with Tonks as 3rd choice fly half and cover at 15, and Bennett as notional cover at wing, with Dunbar, Scott and Taylor also going as specialist centres.

If he takes a 4th winger it'll be between Lamont and Fife - neither would add much to the squad for me. Lamont would be a sentimental pick, a nod to the Weegies whose bottom lips are still quivering over the Ruck Inspector retiring, and Fife is really little more than serviceable at international level.

My WC backs (14):

9. SH-C, Laidlaw and Cusiter
10. Russell, Weir and Tonks
11/14. Visser, Maitland and Seymour
12/13. Scott, Dunbar, Bennett and Taylor
15. Hogg

Visser will need to show some interest in defending, which to be fair I think he is getting better at. I have seen him make a few tackles lately. Scott needs to find the sort of form we know is capable of. Maitland needs to find the try line

Fair points, but all three of those you mention will certainly make the squad unless injured.

Criticising them is only one side of the coin, there has to be someone better able to take their places.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Fair points, but all three of those you mention will certainly make the squad unless injured.

Criticising them is only one side of the coin, there has to be someone better able to take their places.

and there is our difficulty in one sentence. We now have enough decent players to make a decent team if all fit and in form - but the depth is simply not there to give injury cover.

And those positions are the ones we have relatively good depth in.

If we include Horne we have 4 centres of a decent standard. England are miles ahead and Ireland are not far off them but Wales are not much stronger than us. We have 3 decent wingers which is not far behind Wales or France in terms of depth. Not many 6N teams would cope well with a nailed on starting winger missing the whole thing and your best centre getting broken half way through.

The real problem is in the pack and replacing Russell & Hogg if they got injured.

Hogg would be a huge loss but so far Russell is just promise in a Scotland jersey, he's yet to really deliver for 80 minutes. If we had to start with Weir, Jackson or Tonks at 10 I don't think it would be a big step down. In time I do think Russell will be essential, but not yet.

If you list out a Scotland 1st XV the only player we can't replace without a huge drop off is Stuart Hogg.

1. Dickinson - Reid and Grant cover adequately
2. Ford - Brown would be just fine
3. Murray - Nel will soon take his place and Cross and Welsh are fine
4. J Gray - Gilchrist
5. R Gray - Gilchrist
6. Harley - Brown
7. Cowan - Watson or Barclay
8. Denton - Ashe and shortly Strauss
9. Laidlaw - H-C, Cusiter and Pyrgos
10. Russell - Weir, Jackson and Tonks
11. Seymour - Visser
12. Dunbar - Scott
13. Bennett - Scott would move to 12 and Dunbar to 13
14. Maitland - Visser would move to 11 with Seymour to 14
15. Hogg - Irreplaceable.