Welsh World Cup Squad

First topic message reminder :

Dragons not playing until tomorrow and quiet on here so just wondered what early thoughts are on the Welsh WC squad.  I think a lot of it will pick itself unless injury or shock retirements dictate.  I have gone with a 30 man squad 16/14 forwards/back split same as last world cup so here's my thought.

Here's the 47 man Training Squad, Players in bold are the ones I think are already inked in:

Props (5) JENKINS,JAMES,LEE, Evans, Francis, Jarvis, Andrews
Hookers (3) BALDWIN,OWENS, Dacey
2 Row (3) AWJ, CHARTERIS, Ball, Davies, Day
Backrow (5) FALETAU, WARBURTON, LYDIATE, TIPURIC,Moriarty, King

No9s (3) WEBB, Davies, Ll Williams
No10s (3) BIGGAR, PRIESTLAND, Anscombe, Morgan
Centres (3) ROBERTS, Sc WILLIAMS, Morgan, Allen
Back 3 (5) NORTH, HALFPENNY, Li WILLIAMS, Cuthbert, Walker, Amos, James (Then 2 from Cuthbert, Amos, Walker) For me Cuthbert and Amos

As I said the ones in Bold are the ones I feel are already pencilled in to go. Updated squad as we stand now

Fanster wrote:Who is this Thornton?

Realistically every player selected for the extended squad is there to prove he is worthy of a RWC slot, Gatland has the ability and balls to choose untested characters, maybe Davies international career is over? Maybe his charater isn't right for the culture Gatland is nurturing?

That said wasn't Wales 2011 world cup squad packed with experience?

True in principle though a lot are included more to give them experience and to see if they have what it takes, some like Tyelr Morgan may get his shot because of injury but other than that I expect an experienced settled squad.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would be hugely surprised if Thornton made the squad, they will take 4 locks at most which are already well established and proven International players.

So for him to dis lodge any of them 4 then it would take some kind of super human performances in the warm up games and training camps.

Yes I think he might do that.. As I said earlier I think he has the talent. Just needs that opertunity.

Well if he performs well enough to dis lodge AWJ, Charteris, Ball OR Davies fair play to the lad.

Beds if he dislodged all of them we would only have one lock.

I ink he has the ability and athleticism to put himself forward ahead of either Davies or Ball. Charteris and AWJ are our best combination.

Maes,

Notice the OR

Fanster wrote:Who is this Thornton?

Realistically every player selected for the extended squad is there to prove he is worthy of a RWC slot, Gatland has the ability and balls to choose untested characters, maybe Davies international career is over? Maybe his charater isn't right for the culture Gatland is nurturing?

That said wasn't Wales 2011 world cup squad packed with experience?

Fanster, Rory Thornton is the captain of Wales U20s for most of the matches this year, he was released back to the Ospreys for one game during the 6N period due to our crippling injury crisis, he has played a few games for us (Os) since the 6N I think mainly as a substitute, he is captaining the U20s in the WC at the moment, it will be a huge shock to me as an Ospreys ST holder if he gets into the Senior squad this year, then again he (Gatland) has an history of selecting outside of the box. So who knows?

When you think Morgan hasn't been released back to the U20s but Thornton has also says a lot about how much he will figure.

bedfordwelsh wrote:When you think Morgan hasn't been released back to the U20s but Thornton has also says a lot about how much he will figure.

Yes you are right BW, the only thing about that though is Gatland's curve ball, as he showed with Prydie and others. We (Os) selected King before him and he can also cover other positions, I just think Gatland is giving Thornton experience of training with the senior squad.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:When you think Morgan hasn't been released back to the U20s but Thornton has also says a lot about how much he will figure.

Yes you are right BW, the only thing about that though is Gatland's curve ball, as he showed with Prydie and others. We (Os) selected King before him and he can also cover other positions, I just think Gatland is giving Thornton experience of training with the senior squad.

Agreed Wayne and whilst I am still not convinced by King I would imagine that if any of the 4 specialist 2nd rowers were to miss it would be for King in a utility role.

I got the feeling Gats might select Moriarty, and not bother with any utility forward.

The Saint wrote:I got the feeling Gats might select Moriarty, and not bother with any utility forward.

I agree.

Is it 6 back-rowers? If so, we could have two specialists in each position - Lydiate, Moriarty, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau, Baker. In case of injury each can cover the other position, and guys like King might get called in.

The Saint wrote:Is it 6 back-rowers? If so, we could have two specialists in each position - Lydiate, Moriarty, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau, Baker. In case of injury each can cover the other position, and guys like King might get called in.

No set quota as such really each coach has their own ideas, the 6 named above may well figure (5 def will). I know people queried why Moriarty was picked over the likes of Cudd, Navidi and Davies but I guess none are them are 6s - Navidi possibly but more a 7/8. Lydiate is our only specialist 6 really though in past we have moved Warburton there and brought Tipuric on and I am pretty sure Faletau could play anywhere along backrow.

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would be hugely surprised if Thornton made the squad, they will take 4 locks at most which are already well established and proven International players.

So for him to dis lodge any of them 4 then it would take some kind of super human performances in the warm up games and training camps.

Yes I think he might do that.. As I said earlier I think he has the talent. Just needs that opertunity.

Well if he performs well enough to dis lodge AWJ, Charteris, Ball or Davies fair play to the lad.

Beds if he dislodged all of them we would only have one lock.

I ink he has the ability and athleticism to put himself forward ahead of either Davies or Ball. Charteris and AWJ are our best combination.

Cannot see that happening before a world cup. It would be insane for Gatland not to select his 4 internationally experience locks

Fair point, but Ball did it.

Gwlad wrote:

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would be hugely surprised if Thornton made the squad, they will take 4 locks at most which are already well established and proven International players.

So for him to dis lodge any of them 4 then it would take some kind of super human performances in the warm up games and training camps.

Yes I think he might do that.. As I said earlier I think he has the talent. Just needs that opertunity.

Well if he performs well enough to dis lodge AWJ, Charteris, Ball or Davies fair play to the lad.

Beds if he dislodged all of them we would only have one lock.

I ink he has the ability and athleticism to put himself forward ahead of either Davies or Ball. Charteris and AWJ are our best combination.

Cannot see that happening before a world cup. It would be insane for Gatland not to select his 4 internationally experience locks

Fair point, but Ball did it.

But Ball did it during a 6Ns, not a WC, and he got in because half our locks were injured.

And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

God had forgotten about Pretorious.

It's best forgotten about BF. Back then the squad was littered with crap players, and it showed in our AI results.

The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Thornton shows a hell of a lot more talent than your novelty suggestions. Give the guy some credit.

Of course he does Maes. Let's pair him along side AWJ in the RWC pool games.

The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that. Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England, and Pretorious was also capped to ensure he was tied to us. Im not to sure about Howells, but I am thinking there must have been something like that going on as it was before he played for the U20s (and tired to Wales). If Morriaty, Dom Day and Francis get capped then I would say it is pretty much the same as Prydie and Pretorious, ensuring that they are not available for anyone other than us. But if Thornton gets capped, seeing as he is tied already, I would have to say it is because he has shown up in training as one for the future.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that.  Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England, and Pretorious was also capped to ensure he was tied to us.  Im not to sure about Howells, but I am thinking there must have been something like that going on as it was before he played for the U20s (and tired to Wales).  If Morriaty, Dom Day and Francis get capped then I would say it is pretty much the same as Prydie and Pretorious, ensuring that they are not available for anyone other than us.  But if Thornton gets capped, seeing as he is tied already, I would have to say it is because he has shown up in training as one for the future.

In his defense, Prydie had a much more successful debut than Pretorious

munkian wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that.  Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England, and Pretorious was also capped to ensure he was tied to us.  Im not to sure about Howells, but I am thinking there must have been something like that going on as it was before he played for the U20s (and tired to Wales).  If Morriaty, Dom Day and Francis get capped then I would say it is pretty much the same as Prydie and Pretorious, ensuring that they are not available for anyone other than us.  But if Thornton gets capped, seeing as he is tied already, I would have to say it is because he has shown up in training as one for the future.

In his defense, Prydie had a much more successful debut than Pretorious

I fairness to Pretorious, he was the Blues player of the season the year before and was outstanding.

Considering what happened, I don't think you can really blame the guy for not performing that season. :/

munkian wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that.  Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England, and Pretorious was also capped to ensure he was tied to us.  Im not to sure about Howells, but I am thinking there must have been something like that going on as it was before he played for the U20s (and tired to Wales).  If Morriaty, Dom Day and Francis get capped then I would say it is pretty much the same as Prydie and Pretorious, ensuring that they are not available for anyone other than us.  But if Thornton gets capped, seeing as he is tied already, I would have to say it is because he has shown up in training as one for the future.

In his defense, Prydie had a much more successful debut than Pretorious

So did North, and Cuthbert, who also fall into the 'cap them to stop others doing it' category.

Did they not cap them because they also realized they had potential ?

munkian wrote:Did they not cap them because they also realized they had potential ?

They were capped because they shown signs that at some point in their career (if they progressed) they would be of international standards, and at that point it would be best that they are Welsh tied rather than them being lost to other nations.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that.  Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England, and Pretorious was also capped to ensure he was tied to us.  Im not to sure about Howells, but I am thinking there must have been something like that going on as it was before he played for the U20s (and tired to Wales).  If Morriaty, Dom Day and Francis get capped then I would say it is pretty much the same as Prydie and Pretorious, ensuring that they are not available for anyone other than us.  But if Thornton gets capped, seeing as he is tied already, I would have to say it is because he has shown up in training as one for the future.

In other words...a novelty cap. The caps could have went to other players at the time, but didn't. Howells was another novelty. The difference with Moriarty and Francis is that they are regular starters in their team and playing to a high level (unlike Prydie, etc, at the time). They're also in good form. They also play in positions that we are weak in. Not so sure why Dom Day is in the squad... Haha yeah maybe, that old 'showed up well in training' thing; I can't see him getting past our usual 4 locks tbh.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

munkian wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that.  Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England, and Pretorious was also capped to ensure he was tied to us.  Im not to sure about Howells, but I am thinking there must have been something like that going on as it was before he played for the U20s (and tired to Wales).  If Morriaty, Dom Day and Francis get capped then I would say it is pretty much the same as Prydie and Pretorious, ensuring that they are not available for anyone other than us.  But if Thornton gets capped, seeing as he is tied already, I would have to say it is because he has shown up in training as one for the future.

In his defense, Prydie had a much more successful debut than Pretorious

So did North, and Cuthbert, who also fall into the 'cap them to stop others doing it' category.

Again, those two wingers were playing regularly for a region and scoring tries every week... It was rewarding form players playing for the right regions.

wales606 wrote:

munkian wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that.  Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England, and Pretorious was also capped to ensure he was tied to us.  Im not to sure about Howells, but I am thinking there must have been something like that going on as it was before he played for the U20s (and tired to Wales).  If Morriaty, Dom Day and Francis get capped then I would say it is pretty much the same as Prydie and Pretorious, ensuring that they are not available for anyone other than us.  But if Thornton gets capped, seeing as he is tied already, I would have to say it is because he has shown up in training as one for the future.

In his defense, Prydie had a much more successful debut than Pretorious

I fairness to Pretorious, he was the Blues player of the season the year before and was outstanding.

Considering what happened, I don't think you can really blame the guy for not performing that season. :/

He was a shadow of his former self after returning to rugby from that injury. His performances for the Blues were below par, probably on Turnbull's level at the time. So the fact that both these got selected ahead of an outstanding Lewis Evans was nothing short of disgraceful.

The Saint wrote:

wales606 wrote:

munkian wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that.  Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England, and Pretorious was also capped to ensure he was tied to us.  Im not to sure about Howells, but I am thinking there must have been something like that going on as it was before he played for the U20s (and tired to Wales).  If Morriaty, Dom Day and Francis get capped then I would say it is pretty much the same as Prydie and Pretorious, ensuring that they are not available for anyone other than us.  But if Thornton gets capped, seeing as he is tied already, I would have to say it is because he has shown up in training as one for the future.

In his defense, Prydie had a much more successful debut than Pretorious

I fairness to Pretorious, he was the Blues player of the season the year before and was outstanding.

Considering what happened, I don't think you can really blame the guy for not performing that season. :/

He was a shadow of his former self after returning to rugby from that injury. His performances for the Blues were below par, probably on Turnbull's level at the time. So the fact that both these got selected ahead of an outstanding Lewis Evans was nothing short of disgraceful.

It wasn't just an injury - http://www.warriors.co.uk/news/8123.php#.VXXOWc9Vikp

It would still be a huge jump from relative obscurity for Thornton to make the WC squad.

bedfordwelsh wrote:It would still be a huge jump from relative obscurity for Thornton to make the WC squad.

Yes it would but not unfashionable considering the talent he has shown. He certainly shows the ability to replace AWJ in a few years. In the mean time the more inclusion he gets the quicker he will progress.

Great to see him in the squad.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:It would still be a huge jump from relative obscurity for Thornton to make the WC squad.

Yes it would but not unfashionable considering the talent he has shown. He certainly shows the ability to replace AWJ in a few years. In the mean time the more inclusion he gets the quicker he will progress.

Great to see him in the squad.

Where has he shown the ability? I've watched him mostly in an U20 jersey, he's had a few good games but nothing that leads me to believe he'll be stepping up shortly. His comments after the loss to France in the 6 Nations were nothing short of embarrassing, saying he was proud of the boys effort when there wasn't any; being okay with mediocrity won't get him far. He hasn't really stood out in the few games he's played for the Ospreys either so I'm not sure what you could be basing these comments on? I reckon Beard looks better, but expect both to have a future in professional rugby. Maybe they'll get some game time with 'Ospreys A' next year and kick on from there. If that goes well, only then will comments make sense.

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:It would still be a huge jump from relative obscurity for Thornton to make the WC squad.

Yes it would but not unfashionable considering the talent he has shown. He certainly shows the ability to replace AWJ in a few years. In the mean time the more inclusion he gets the quicker he will progress.

Great to see him in the squad.

Where has he shown the ability? I've watched him mostly in an U20 jersey, he's had a few good games but nothing that leads me to believe he'll be stepping up shortly. His comments after the loss to France in the 6 Nations were nothing short of embarrassing, saying he was proud of the boys effort when there wasn't any; being okay with mediocrity won't get him far. He hasn't really stood out in the few games he's played for the Ospreys either so I'm not sure what you could be basing these comments on? I reckon Beard looks better, but expect both to have a future in professional rugby. Maybe they'll get some game time with 'Ospreys A' next year and kick on from there. If that goes well, only then will comments make sense.

Yawn...!

maestegmafia wrote:

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:It would still be a huge jump from relative obscurity for Thornton to make the WC squad.

Yes it would but not unfashionable considering the talent he has shown. He certainly shows the ability to replace AWJ in a few years. In the mean time the more inclusion he gets the quicker he will progress.

Great to see him in the squad.

Where has he shown the ability? I've watched him mostly in an U20 jersey, he's had a few good games but nothing that leads me to believe he'll be stepping up shortly. His comments after the loss to France in the 6 Nations were nothing short of embarrassing, saying he was proud of the boys effort when there wasn't any; being okay with mediocrity won't get him far. He hasn't really stood out in the few games he's played for the Ospreys either so I'm not sure what you could be basing these comments on? I reckon Beard looks better, but expect both to have a future in professional rugby. Maybe they'll get some game time with 'Ospreys A' next year and kick on from there. If that goes well, only then will comments make sense.

Yawn...!

Insightful as always. Try comprehending what actually goes on for a change instead of relying on substandard media sites (WalesOnline).

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

The Saint wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:It would still be a huge jump from relative obscurity for Thornton to make the WC squad.

Yes it would but not unfashionable considering the talent he has shown. He certainly shows the ability to replace AWJ in a few years. In the mean time the more inclusion he gets the quicker he will progress.

Great to see him in the squad.

Where has he shown the ability? I've watched him mostly in an U20 jersey, he's had a few good games but nothing that leads me to believe he'll be stepping up shortly. His comments after the loss to France in the 6 Nations were nothing short of embarrassing, saying he was proud of the boys effort when there wasn't any; being okay with mediocrity won't get him far. He hasn't really stood out in the few games he's played for the Ospreys either so I'm not sure what you could be basing these comments on? I reckon Beard looks better, but expect both to have a future in professional rugby. Maybe they'll get some game time with 'Ospreys A' next year and kick on from there. If that goes well, only then will comments make sense.

Yawn...!

Insightful as always. Try comprehending what actually goes on for a change instead of relying on substandard media sites (WalesOnline).

An even bigger yawn...!

Now you're making me yawn... I just don't see why you think Thornton will break into our seniors RWC squad when he is not better than our 4 current locks, with James King as the likely back-up. It must be an Ospreylian thing where you guys aren't satisfied unless there's 15 Ospreys starting in the Wales team!

The Saint wrote:Now you're making me yawn... I just don't see why you think Thornton will break into our seniors RWC squad when he is not better than our 4 current locks, with James King as the likely back-up. It must be an Ospreylian thing where you guys aren't satisfied unless there's 15 Ospreys starting in the Wales team!

Zzz zzz zzz zzz

Sorry to jump in as an outsider.

Quite surprised to hear Thornton is the mix for a WC spot. I have to side with Saint by saying he looks a while off being ready for the step up. I thought he was outplayed by Ewels and he's certainly not ready to make the jump.

You have much better options available in AWJ (obviously), Davies, Ball, Charteris & King imo.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Sorry to jump in as an outsider.

Quite surprised to hear Thornton is the mix for a WC spot. I have to side with Saint by saying he looks a while off being ready for the step up. I thought he was outplayed by Ewels and he's certainly not ready to make the jump.

You have much better options available in AWJ (obviously), Davies, Ball, Charteris & King imo.

Exactly. Didn't think Ewels was that special either from what I saw, but he happens to be part of an efficient, well-drilled pack guided by excellent half-backs. Thornton was selected in the extended training squad, which doesn't guarantee you a place in the RWC squad, surprised it isn't Coombes in his place too (and how do you explain Dom Day?). Another U20 in there is Dragons regular Tyler Morgan, but he was withdrawn from the U20s entirely and has been in great form at his regional team - this would surely indicate he is our third centre, and rightly so. I don't see Thornton being in the same position and actually rate his Ospreys U20 mate Beard higher. Different opinions don't usually go down well with Ospreylians from my experience though, hence all of this.

Morgan looks outstanding, he was great when they played Falcons.

Thornton IMO isn't in line for a WC place, if he was he would have been withdrawn form the U20s like Morgan has been.

He's been named in the extended squad with the future in mind and for coaches to have a look at him and also let him know he is on their radar etc.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Thornton IMO isn't in line for a WC place, if he was he would have been withdrawn form the U20s like Morgan has been.

He's been named in the extended squad with the future in mind and for coaches to have a look at him and also let him know he is on their radar etc.

IMO,your absolutely spot on BW, it is just like the situation in the 2011 Australia Autumn International game which was one of Shane's farewell games, when he called up Lewis Evans for his one and only squad trial and was found wanting, never to be seen again.

Why is this even a point for debate; why would Gats use up a lock spot in a small squad on a speculative bolter who is 5th/6th in line? move on.

These squads are in part designed for that, Gatland will have I reckon about 20-22 players who are already in his squad so the other players will be pushing for these extra slots.

In the process some will prove to coaches that whilst they may not make this squad they will make the break through sooner rather than later while others will be found out.

bedfordwelsh wrote:These squads are in part designed for that, Gatland will have I reckon about 20-22 players who are already in his squad so the other players will be pushing for these extra slots.

In the process some will prove to coaches that whilst they may not make this squad they will make the break through sooner rather than later while others will be found out.

I nearly totally agree with that BW except for the number, I reckon 25 to 26 are penciled in, it is the last 5 or 6 to fill.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:These squads are in part designed for that, Gatland will have I reckon about 20-22 players who are already in his squad so the other players will be pushing for these extra slots.

In the process some will prove to coaches that whilst they may not make this squad they will make the break through sooner rather than later while others will be found out.

I nearly totally agree with that BW except for the number, I reckon 25 to 26 are penciled in, it is the last 5 or 6 to fill.

Wayne,

These are the ones I think are already in the squad:

Backs: Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), George North (Northampton Saints), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

Forwards: Paul James (Bath Rugby), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Richard Hibbard (Gloucester Rugby), Ken Owens (Scarlets),  Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys),  Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (CAPT - Cardiff Blues)

Others such as Ball, Davies, Rh Jones, G Davies are there or there abouts with others then dependent on whether he takes out an out specialists or utility players.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Thornton IMO isn't in line for a WC place, if he was he would have been withdrawn form the U20s like Morgan has been.

He's been named in the extended squad with the future in mind and for coaches to have a look at him and also let him know he is on their radar etc.

IMO,your absolutely spot on BW, it is just like the situation in the 2011 Australia Autumn International game which was one of Shane's farewell games, when he called up Lewis Evans for his one and only squad trial and was found wanting, never to be seen again.

That's nonsense and/or incorrect.

Out of interest has a December game been mentioned yet? Or is it off the cards for once?

Pretty sure Lewis Evans was injured rather than 'found wanting'....

Does Moriarty's selection come competely out of left field or has he been on Wales fans' radar screens for a while? He's certainly had a great season.

Bit left field I think GC, he certainly hadn't been mentioned much if at all before. Bit like Francis in the 6 Nations but Gatland does like to throw the odd curve ball.

Also pretty sure Evans got injured so didnt actually join up with the Welsh squad.

Is it really a massive surprise on form, though? As blindsides go, he must be playing at least as well as anyone at the moment and he's been consistent all season.

And his dad and his uncle both played for Wales.