Welsh World Cup Squad

First topic message reminder :

Dragons not playing until tomorrow and quiet on here so just wondered what early thoughts are on the Welsh WC squad.  I think a lot of it will pick itself unless injury or shock retirements dictate.  I have gone with a 30 man squad 16/14 forwards/back split same as last world cup so here's my thought.

Here's the 47 man Training Squad, Players in bold are the ones I think are already inked in:

Props (5) JENKINS,JAMES,LEE, Evans, Francis, Jarvis, Andrews
Hookers (3) BALDWIN,OWENS, Dacey
2 Row (3) AWJ, CHARTERIS, Ball, Davies, Day
Backrow (5) FALETAU, WARBURTON, LYDIATE, TIPURIC,Moriarty, King

No9s (3) WEBB, Davies, Ll Williams
No10s (3) BIGGAR, PRIESTLAND, Anscombe, Morgan
Centres (3) ROBERTS, Sc WILLIAMS, Morgan, Allen
Back 3 (5) NORTH, HALFPENNY, Li WILLIAMS, Cuthbert, Walker, Amos, James (Then 2 from Cuthbert, Amos, Walker) For me Cuthbert and Amos

As I said the ones in Bold are the ones I feel are already pencilled in to go. Updated squad as we stand now

beshocked wrote: Rolland is as French as Tomas Francis is English. Or alternatively you could say Rolland is as Irish as Tomas Francis is Welsh.

Rolland represented Ireland but he's French, Francis represents Wales but he's English.

Anyway we are going on off topic.

Gatland is in a very tough position. He and the Welsh fans know that - Pool A is one of the strongest RWC pool groups in living memory but that will be no consolation if they go out. Expectations are high even though Wales will start marginal underdogs.

Both England and Australia can be beaten by Wales but Wales must not give either England or Australia any sign of weakness.

I do think that England and Australia have the psychological edge over Wales but we'll see if that remains the case in the RWC.

Will be very interesting to see how Wales tackle each game - will it be from the boot of Halfpenny or is a bolder approach going to be used?

The win against Ireland in the 6 nations was a warning that Wales can slog it out with a good side like Ireland and come out on top.

Do you think they'll try a similar sort of approach?

None of the coaches will want to show their hand before the tournament starts, so I doubt we'll see anything new.

beshocked wrote: Will be very interesting to see how Wales tackle each game - will it be from the boot of Halfpenny or is a bolder approach going to be used?

The win against Ireland in the 6 nations was a warning that Wales can slog it out with a good side like Ireland and come out on top.

Do you think they'll try a similar sort of approach?

I am hoping that with the loss of Foxy in the centre, and the crumble of Cuthburt form-wise, that Gatland will be forced into playing a more attractive style of rugby, which is far less reliant on the boot of Halfpenny. IMO in the recent occasions when Halfpenny has gone off Wales have looked a far more potent side. I appreciate that is not down to him being a poor player, but more to do with how he is utilised.

Part of me is hoping we can do similar to last world cup, where we were playing boring predictable rugby right up until the kick-off of the first game, and then we suddenly shown that we were capable of playing a different game. The introduction of the likes of Lydiate, Faletau and Priestland helped greatly with that. So with the likes of Amos, Dixon/Morgan and Liam Williams can help in a similar way this time.

Scarletspiderman perhaps but I thought Halfpenny played well in that win over Ireland. Wales' defence was impressive and that's what has brought Wales their 3 GSs with Gatland in charge.

Playing fast and loose against Australia and England is not something I would recommend.

Sometimes a straightforward gameplan is the most effective and in a RWC defences are generally on top which I think is an advantage for Wales.

The worrying thing for me is that 2 key players are out injured and did not participate in the world cup camps (Lee + Williams).  Gatland is talking about both of them going.  Conditioning wise I've no clue if this is a wise move.  They wont be anywhere near the shape of the others in the squad.  Even then there is no certainty they will make the cut.  I certainly don't think Rhod will make it back either, not that he was threating for first team inclusion.

Right about now I would have preferred Adam Jones to be available.  Because lets face it, Scot Andrews is not international quality at tighthead.  So that leaves us with Francis (who even uncapped has to be first choice) with Jarvis his backup.  Francis looks like he could have probably made the test squad anyway but Jarvis doesn't have the set piece game at this level.  So basically at this stage if we lose Francis for any reason our World Cup could be over before its even started.  

The fact Gats didn't pick up the phone and call Adam back is a little bizarre to me given they must have already know Andrews was a total waste of a selection call.  At the very least I would have Adam as a emergency backup cover to Francis and Lee.  

I really hope this doesn't come back to bite us....

beshocked wrote:Scarletspiderman perhaps but I thought Halfpenny played well in that win over Ireland. Wales' defence was impressive and that's what has brought Wales their 3 GSs with Gatland in charge.

Playing fast and loose against Australia and England is not something I would recommend.

Sometimes a straightforward gameplan is the most effective and in a RWC defences are generally on top which I think is an advantage for Wales.

I wouldn't disagree with the importance of a solid defence. That said I'd probably equate a solid set piece even more important than that. If Wales have a solid platform and a good defence they will be difficult to beat.

However at this minute in time I have concerns of our ability at scrum time given our area of weakness at tighthead.

Welshmushroom wrote:The worrying thing for me is that 2 key players are out injured and did not participate in the world cup camps (Lee + Williams).  Gatland is talking about both of them going.  Conditioning wise I've no clue if this is a wise move.  They wont be anywhere near the shape of the others in the squad.  Even then there is no certainty they will make the cut.  I certainly don't think Rhod will make it back either, not that he was threating for first team inclusion.

Right about now I would have preferred Adam Jones to be available.  Because lets face it, Scot Andrews is not international quality at tighthead.  So that leaves us with Francis (who even uncapped has to be first choice) with Jarvis his backup.  Francis looks like he could have probably made the test squad anyway but Jarvis doesn't have the set piece game at this level.  So basically at this stage if we lose Francis for any reason our World Cup could be over before its even started.  

The fact Gats didn't pick up the phone and call Adam back is a little bizarre to me given they must have already know Andrews was a total waste of a selection call.  At the very least I would have Adam as a emergency backup cover to Francis and Lee.  

I really hope this doesn't come back to bite us....

Fact is you just know it will.

Lee is a lump and not only has he missed camp you can't replicate rugby fitness without a lot of running so i expect him to be really unfit by comparison. Not only will he be off the pace but his achilles though healed, is much more likely to go again now. I don't think Hair was/is a solution anymore so yes all the pressure falls on an untested Francis. And there is no strength in depth. Frankly i would use James as back up to Francis at the moment. He at least has the experience of international scrummaging and has played 3 a fair amount.

I am less worried about Sanjay not being in camp for some reason.

Knowing Gatland though this injury management could all be part of his plan to keep his opponents guessing; for all we know Lee could be fit now!

Gwlad wrote:Knowing Gatland though this injury management could all be part of his plan to keep his opponents guessing; for all we know Lee could be fit now!

It's possible. I'm sure he said recently that the whole thing about them being the fittest side in the last World Cup was a myth, but they said it often enough that people believed it.

munkian wrote:I reckon we'll see Amos, T Morgan and Dixon involved as well as Moriarty and Francis to make sure they are tied to us.

Amos has a cap, Morgan and Dixon played under twenties so are already tied to Wales. Reading the interview with Moriarty I don't think he has any doubt with whom his international future lies. From what has been said about Francis, neither does he.

We need those lads to have the chance and opportunity to prove their worth more than their allegiance

Amos is nailed on to start after today's news. I expect he would've been anyway. Think Tyler might too. Dixon bench at best. I'd expect Moriarty and Francis to start too.

maestegmafia wrote:

munkian wrote:I reckon we'll see Amos, T Morgan and Dixon involved as well as Moriarty and Francis to make sure they are tied to us.

Amos has a cap, Morgan and Dixon played under twenties so are already tied to Wales. Reading the interview with Moriarty I don't think he has any doubt with whom his international future lies. From what has been said about Francis, neither does he.

We need those lads to have the chance and opportunity to prove their worth more than their allegiance

Think you've misread that post somewhat. Pretty sure Munkian knows what's what with regards to the Dragons boys.

Risca Rev wrote:Amos is nailed on to start after today's news. I expect he would've been anyway. Think Tyler might too. Dixon bench at best. I'd expect Moriarty and Francis to start too.

With who? probably Cuthbert i expect. I would love to see Moriarty in, if they have knocked off some rough edges he could be an awesome impact carrier in the last third. Francis nailed on; i expect with Hibbard but unsure on loose head.

Ball and Bradley.

Tipuric, one of the eight options ? and i expect Warburton.

Davies, Anscombe/Priestland, Amos, centres? , Cuthbert, Anscombe/Hook.

and we'll lose.

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

munkian wrote:I reckon we'll see Amos, T Morgan and Dixon involved as well as Moriarty and Francis to make sure they are tied to us.

Amos has a cap, Morgan and Dixon played under twenties so are already tied to Wales. Reading the interview with Moriarty I don't think he has any doubt with whom his international future lies. From what has been said about Francis, neither does he.

We need those lads to have the chance and opportunity to prove their worth more than their allegiance

Think you've misread that post somewhat. Pretty sure Munkian knows what's what with regards to the Dragons boys.

Shucks

Yeah, I meant the Wenglish contingent.

beshocked wrote:Scarletspiderman perhaps but I thought Halfpenny played well in that win over Ireland. Wales' defence was impressive and that's what has brought Wales their 3 GSs with Gatland in charge.

Playing fast and loose against Australia and England is not something I would recommend.

Sometimes a straightforward gameplan is the most effective and in a RWC defences are generally on top which I think is an advantage for Wales.

I'm not too sure that playing fast and loose again England or Australia would be a bad idea, especially if they are expecting tight and dull. Sometimes playing totally against the expected game plan pays dividends. But unless halfpenny is crocked, I can't see us playing anything other than trying to keep the ball in the opposition half and slottig pens when they come (which is a proven loser against Australia for us)

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

beshocked wrote:Scarletspiderman perhaps but I thought Halfpenny played well in that win over Ireland. Wales' defence was impressive and that's what has brought Wales their 3 GSs with Gatland in charge.

Playing fast and loose against Australia and England is not something I would recommend.

Sometimes a straightforward gameplan is the most effective and in a RWC defences are generally on top which I think is an advantage for Wales.

I'm not too sure that playing fast and loose again England or Australia would be a bad idea, especially if they are expecting tight and dull.  Sometimes playing totally against the expected game plan pays dividends.  But unless halfpenny is crocked, I can't see us playing anything other than trying to keep the ball in the opposition half and slottig pens when they come (which is a proven loser against Australia for us)

Mixing it up has worked; we beat SA finally by getting it wide and quick instead of going round the corner. Game management has to definitely be at the top of Gtaland's thinking this RWC and i expect much more intensity at the breakdown and that we will play a more high tempo rugby with offload featuring much more than it has under Gatland before. I also expect our set piece to be of a much higher standard. I agree that kicking goals is inevitably part of the game plan and v Aus it has been all we had to offer on occasion. We have to beat Aus eventually and i have confidence that if the mental game is right and our error rate is down we can do it. That said they look sharp and i can see them winning this weekend.

The Wail say this, but it is probably based on nothing.

Wales probable: H Amos, A Cuthbert, T Morgan, S Williams, E Walker, J Hook, M Phillips, N Smith, S Baldwin, A Jarvis, D Day, J Ball, R Moriarty, J Tipuric, D Baker.

Would not be chuffed to see Amos at 15, as he's been on form at 11. It's nonsensical to give Cuthbert a game just so he can find some form. That's a Gatland classic. I'm sure he will wheel out the trained well line if this is true. On the whole, this is ok. Would probably go somebody else at 9, one of the Blues 10/15's at fullback (Patch or Ans), Francis at 3 and probably somebody over Day at lock.

WOL are reporting that Moriarty, Walker, Amos, T Morgan and Day are all expected to start in a mix and match of experience and youth.

Amos at 15 makes perfect sense, as I said previously. With Williams injury, and Halfpennys tendancy to snooze mid game, a third FB may be required sooner rarther than later.

Not his best position and with our usual tactics he'd be wasted in HPs role

munkian wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

munkian wrote:I reckon we'll see Amos, T Morgan and Dixon involved as well as Moriarty and Francis to make sure they are tied to us.

Amos has a cap, Morgan and Dixon played under twenties so are already tied to Wales. Reading the interview with Moriarty I don't think he has any doubt with whom his international future lies. From what has been said about Francis, neither does he.

We need those lads to have the chance and opportunity to prove their worth more than their allegiance

Think you've misread that post somewhat. Pretty sure Munkian knows what's what with regards to the Dragons boys.

Shucks

Yeah, I meant the Wenglish contingent.

Apologies mate

Dim problem

Hope we dont have Walker and Cuthbert on wings - cant tackle and wont tackle

Those are terrible half-backs, and the forward pack looks under powered. So if that's the team you would bet on us losing - which I can live with as long as we win our remaining two games.

munkian wrote:Not his best position and with our usual tactics he'd be wasted in HPs role

Only HP can play the HP role, Williams certainly doesn't when he plays FB! If not Amos then who?

Fanster wrote:

munkian wrote:Not his best position and with our usual tactics he'd be wasted in HPs role

Only HP can play the HP role, Williams certainly doesn't when he plays FB! If not Amos then who?

Anscomme, as he is pretty likely to be at the Rev filling the utility role on the bench.

That's an attacking backline, assuming Phillips can get them the ball... Amos should be allowed to play his own game. If he continues to be versatile he will get more caps. I hope he continues his form but I guess scoring from your own 22 is a bit ambitious against Ireland.

Risca Rev wrote:The Wail say this, but it is probably based on nothing.

Wales probable: H Amos, A Cuthbert, T Morgan, S Williams, E Walker, J Hook, M Phillips, N Smith, S Baldwin, A Jarvis, D Day, J Ball, R Moriarty, J Tipuric, D Baker.

Would not be chuffed to see Amos at 15, as he's been on form at 11. It's nonsensical to give Cuthbert a game just so he can find some form. That's a Gatland classic. I'm sure he will wheel out the trained well line if this is true. On the whole, this is ok. Would probably go somebody else at 9, one of the Blues 10/15's at fullback (Patch or Ans), Francis at 3 and probably somebody over Day at lock.

Makes no sense not to play Francis asap. Also, isn't Bradley in the squad….needs game time at lock. And nonsense to play Philipps at 9.

Day would be the big shock for me as well what with Davies in the squad, not overly bothered about Phillips at 9 but again why aren't we capping Francis. He should have been capped against Italy.

Other than that if that is the side I quite like it.

What can Gatland possibly learn about Mike Phillips that he doesn't already know? Same with Hook. I hoped we'd moved on from these two.

LP,

I agree in a way but I guess he wants some experience in there and not just a totally new in experienced side. I would imagine that G Davies and Anscombe or M Morgan will be on the bench and get some game time.

Though if the choice was Hook or Anscombe then I know which one I would pick and I am not his biggest fan either

Is the Ireland side named today as well?

I fear that back line will be wasted with slow service from Phillips. Would have much preferred Davies and Priestland.

I'd have picked Anscombe or somebody like Morgan at 15 and they could've interchanged, picked Amos where he has been playing all season (i.e. wing) and had somebody out of Anscombe, Morgan or Patchell at ten for this (if we are treating this as an experimenting game as it appears. I don't see Amos appearing at 15 in the RWC, whereas I can see him playing wing.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Fanster wrote:

munkian wrote:Not his best position and with our usual tactics he'd be wasted in HPs role

Only HP can play the HP role, Williams certainly doesn't when he plays FB! If not Amos then who?

Anscomme, as he is pretty likely to be at the Rev filling the utility role on the bench.

But Anscombe was lined up at 10 mostly this season with his DC dictating where the WRU see him. Patchell was the one moved around to accomodate.

I think you may be right in that Anscombe may be 3rd choice 10 with potential 12 and FB cover, but i'd prefer to see Amos there first.

Risca Rev wrote:The Wail say this, but it is probably based on nothing.

Wales probable: H Amos, A Cuthbert, T Morgan, S Williams, E Walker, J Hook, M Phillips, N Smith, S Baldwin, A Jarvis, D Day, J Ball, R Moriarty, J Tipuric, D Baker.

.

That team is going to get stuffed. No Dixon on the wing? Pah

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:The Wail say this, but it is probably based on nothing.

Wales probable: H Amos, A Cuthbert, T Morgan, S Williams, E Walker, J Hook, M Phillips, N Smith, S Baldwin, A Jarvis, D Day, J Ball, R Moriarty, J Tipuric, D Baker.

.

That team is going to get stuffed. No Dixon on the wing?  Pah

True enough. Gatland has lost the plot.

I hope Ireland take a half arsed approach too.

Hang on, nothing is confirmed yet, and if the team put up by Walesonline is correct this will be a tester to those on the fringes.

Maybe sacrificing the first game up for a tester team isn't the worst idea, I personally wouldn't but then I don't have Gatlands insights or experience.

That said the match is a sell out isn't it? I'll be there but I don't want to see a, experimental Wales team get humped by a decent Irish side!

Thing is, sending out experimental teams is not a fair litmus test for 'fringe' players.

You should partner them with regular starters.

I guess our current injuries don't help mind.

15 Hallam Amos, 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13 Tyler Morgan, 12 Scott Williams, 11 Eli Walker, 10 James Hook, 9 Mike Phillips, 1 Nicky Smith, 2 Richard Hibbard, 3 Aaron Jarvis, 4 Jake Ball 5 Dominic Day, 6 Ross Moriarty, 7 Justin Tipuric, 8 Dan Baker.

Replacements: Rob Evans, Kristian Dacey, Scott Andrews, James King, Taulupe Faletau, Lloyd Williams, Gareth Anscombe, Matthew Morgan.

A.Stuffing.

Surprised to not see Francis involved, wonder what that means for his chances.

Could mean he is out, or he could be first choice until Samson is fit and they don't want to risk him before cutting the squad

It does not look like a strong team though, if Ireland name a strong squad we could be in big trouble

Im hoping they are keeping Francis wrapped in cotton wool or for the away game...

Backs are tidy mind - wish G Davies was at 9 mind - Phillips wont get our back line going and I don't rate Brynmoor Jnr.

It seems to me they've given Brynmor Jr a bench spot just to thank him for holding the tackle bags before they cut him.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It seems to me they've given Brynmor Jr a bench spot just to thank him for holding the tackle bags before they cut him.

Wouldn't be so sure, he has actually played pretty well this season and we know the management like him. It wouldn't surprise me if he made the squad over Davies, although that wouldn't be my choice.

Francis must be being kept back for next week.

Hope Ireland follow suit and name a second string squad or it could be a drubbing. I think they're keeping Francis safe at the moment. If he goes down then we will be in some trouble. I'm excited to see Dom Day. We know what the other players in the second row bring, hope he does well. Phillips and Hook. I worry about the service but Hook has had a season at flyhalf. If Williams runs some lines Hook will put him through (or throw an interception). Fingers crossed for Walker. Amos and T Morgan will be up for this.

wales606 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It seems to me they've given Brynmor Jr a bench spot just to thank him for holding the tackle bags before they cut him.

Wouldn't be so sure, he has actually played pretty well this season and we know the management like him. It wouldn't surprise me if he made the squad over Davies, although that wouldn't be my choice.

But still, that would be a complete howler of a call!

I don't see the point in that team, most are 3rd choice/won't make the squad. Surely you would at least want Francis on the bench as opposed to two TH's that can't scrum? I would have gone with a specialist lock on the bench too in place of Faletau, I don't think King should be covering that spot. Glad Rob Evans is on the bench at least, he would be my 2nd choice behind Jenkins.

wales606 wrote:Surprised to not see Francis involved, wonder what that means for his chances.

Could mean he is out, or he could be first choice until Samson is fit and they don't want to risk him before cutting the squad

It does not look like a strong team though, if Ireland name a strong squad we could be in big trouble

I bloody well hope it is the latter when it comes to Francis!

Oireland have delayed their squad announcement till Thursday. Either waiting on injuries or bricking it

Bricking it, obviously.

munkian wrote:Oireland have delayed their squad announcement till Thursday. Either waiting on injuries or bricking it

Need extra time to rehearse all their try celebrations.