Rome Masters 1000 2015

First topic message reminder :

Djokovic has been drawn in the same quarter as Nishikori and the same half as Murray. Djokovic could get Almagro in his first match as well.

Nadal drawn in the same quarter as Wawrinka and same half as Federer. Seems as though Nadal has a better draw.

Wawrinka back to his usual inconsistent self.

I'll tempered match it seems. Not at each other but neither looks pleased out there.

Severin Lüthi deserves a medal for sitting all these years on Fed and Stans box, endless hours and days, his ass must be like a stone

This is too easy now.

Stan melting now, will be a quick set this one, or STan doing his bit to not tire Fed for tomorrow 

Wawrinka is just getting bad to worse. This is now an exho. Complete lack of effort from Wawrinka.

Don't do that Fed, easy on your friend, wtf.

Some magic from Fed.

2005 style couple of BH's there.

From 0-3 this has gone 11-2.

Fed taking the p**s now.

Even Koenig and Lester questioning Wawrinka's effort or a lack thereof. Djokovic will be much tougher than the current Wawrinka, though, Jahu.

..while Stan gone to take a dump.

Give Stan this game now, don't be an ass.

LF, no he won't, Djoko still loses sleep over the 2011 RG loss to Fed and crushing of his streak.

Ok 6:2 is little more acceptable.

Lets see will Fed close it now or do a ever so often Djoko choke on it.

Break him Stan!!

Hopefully the potholes will get fixed/filled by tomorrow.

There was a stretch where Fed won 20 out of 21 points (and the one he lost was his own DF).

Holy mama, 2 Pizzas costs 22 Euros in Ireland? From a Sky advert.

All done, Stan still at his Nadal win orgy.

Fed should sleep on the court tonight and get fired up to beat Djoko.

Well done. Short and sweet. Stan never showed up though.

laverfan wrote:Hopefully the potholes will get fixed/filled by tomorrow.

I think they have been there all week - or at least Nole has been complaining about them.

54 minutes match, bit of swiss conspiracy this

Fed should have signed the camera with "it was good to see you Stan".

Djoko in 20 match streak since his loss to Fed in Dubai.

Will Fed break his streak again and on clay? Would be good I say.

Jahu wrote:Will Fed break his streak again and on clay? Would be good I say.

It would be good but it will be hard to do.

summerblues wrote:There was a stretch where Fed won 20 out of 21 points (and the one he lost was his own DF).

Wawrinka made his contributions. I would have preferred a FedAl semifinal over this. Only 1.6Km run by both together, compared to Djokovic running that much alone v Ferrer, IIRC.

Federer has a chance to amend his CV with a Rome trophy.

summerblues wrote:Fed should have signed the camera with "it was good to see you Stan".

That would of sounded dubious, the meaning of SEE you, so Stan showed up just to be seen and not play.

Yes, I was also hoping to see Fed vs Rafa - not that we do not know how that would end.

Tomorrow Federer v Djokovic should be a much better match.

Jahu wrote:

summerblues wrote:Fed should have signed the camera with "it was good to see you Stan".

That would of sounded dubious, the meaning of SEE you, so Stan showed up just to be seen and not play.

Stan wrote on the camera yesterday: "See you tomorrow R.F."

But I was not being serious.

summerblues wrote:Yes, I was also hoping to see Fed vs Rafa - not that we do not know how that would end.

A Wawrinka face mask would do wonders for Federer when playing Nadal.

laverfan wrote:Tomorrow Federer v Djokovic should be a much better match.

I agree, I think it should be good. Fed looked fairly solid today. While Nole is obviously the favorite, Roger should be able to at least have a respectable showing.

Yeah Stans signature yesterday was very romantic

Maybe fate has it, Fed to win Rome and Djoko RG?

If Fed were to win tomorrow, Andy would be the only guy heading into the RG undefeated on clay this year.

If Nole wins tomorrow, he will keep gobbling up everything that matters.

Lack of effort in the 2nd set from Stan. I guess they shook hands that the winner of 1st set would have the match and be full of life for the final

Lets see how crazy the seedings will be for RG, I'm hoping for 2 non top 4 in SF.

Rafa being one of them?

BTW, it is bizarre that with most of the clay court season behind us, Rafa is still only #7 in the Race.

Yeah Nadal only 80 points ahead of Ferrer on 8'th, at 4,570, which is nearly 3 times that less than Djoko at 13,345.

Nadal on a RG SF, would mean he wins it.

Nadal is seeded 7 RG, IIRC.

Sounds like a pretty lame effort from wawrinka today. Goes and beats nadal and then back to his usual inconsistency the following day. Must be so frustrating for his coach!

Should be a good match tomorrow, hopefully Novak wins but reckon it will go 3 sets either way. Djokovic looked pretty good against ferrer, I thought ferrer played a very good match

TRuffin wrote:

sirfredperry wrote:While Rafa's confidence has gone down, the confidence of those who play him is going up. People now think they have a chance against him on clay. After every Rafa defeat I keep repeating the mantra that he'll still win the French, that he's still favourite at RG.
  But the argument is getting less and less persuasive, especially as Rafa now has fewer matches at RG before running into the big boys.
   It's still going to be a challenge for anyone to get three sets off him at his favourite venue. However, Djoko could soon find himself in the position Fed was in in 09 when Rafa lost to Soderling. It's the "now or never" scenario.

Why "now or never" though for Djoko and the French?   A year from now, Nadal will be obviously even older- may be in decline even more.    Federer will be older. Murray who knows if this clay success is a mirage or not.   I don't see anyone for the next two years that is going to pass djokovic as the best player in the world, so he should have just as good a chance in the next couple of years.   There is definitely a window there, but I don't see any reasons from a tennis perspective that it's only a one year thing.

Totally agree with this. I mean he has a huge ATP points lead he had a very tough draw after a layoff and is again playing in a Masters final on clay after winning MC. After Nadal he has the most clay court masters of anyone on tour. And most importantly he has been very durable health wise over the years and doesn't have the same type of mileage in terms of injuries that Nadal has. I think Novak has a 2-3 year window at the French. I mean he has done nothing dispel the notion that he is clearly the best player in the world and by some margin. And I don't see a young guy out there that all of sudden is going to overtake him particularly on the slower surfaces in the next year or two.

Born Slippy wrote:

bogbrush wrote:A few years ago he didn't just passively rally like last night, he saw any ball not within a foot of the baseline as something to muscle into bad places. Now he seems content to rally and wait for errors, and when he does try to be aggressive a tendency towards over hitting seems prevalent.

I agree he has a very good net game but that's only a variation, he will only win if the bread and butter is in good shape.

It's too early to count him out for sure but I always felt that when the decline came it would be rapid - his game is so dependent on physical superiority. This pattern matches that profile but more evidence is needed.

Nice post. Physically he hasn't looked in bad shape to me though. His movement was exceptional against both Andy and Stan. It may be he no longer has such incredible levels of stamina - which will be more apparent at the French. However, that could be more due to the curtailed pre-season than age.

I agree this could be decline - he's certainly had enough physical issues in the past. However, it could also be similar to Roger's 2013 or Murray last year when they were struggling. Too early to tell.

Yes fully agree. A pattern is starting to develop although we still can't completely count the guy out but this is certainly the biggest crisis he has ever had in his career routinely losing to players who he dominated in the recent past on clay. What is most disconcerting is that his shots just don't the impact the way they used to. The forehand is wild and inconsistent and when he dials it back to cut back on errors the ball drops short and doesn't have the same effectiveness. Players with good backhands are easily controlling the cross court forehand even on clay. As that forehand goes so does Nadal's game and is results.

The thing is that this isn't injury any more, that's a long time ago. He'd better pray he gets a decent draw and doesn't fall early at RG or he's out of the top ten.

What is also a bit worrying is that this loss to Wawrinka wasn't to a guy who had been playing in great form. Wawrinka is also in a career tailspin. Up until this rome tournament Stan hadn't won back to back matches since Rotterdam. I mean the loss to Djoko at MC, you can say ok he is the world #1. The loss to Murray you can say well Murray was experiencing his best patch of clay court tennis in his career. Even the loss to Foggy you can say that foggy is a guy who is very dangerous and streaky on clay. But contrary to what many people are saying I don't think Stan was all that exceptional in the match. He stole the first set when Nadal choked away 4 straight set points in the tiebreak after giving up the break lead. And in the second set Nadal was spraying errors all over the place. Yes Stan hit some huge shots but he was being tee'd up with short floating shots dropping in the middle of the court. That top spin is really easy to hit if you can stand inside the baseline and catch the ball after the kick when it loses momentum and just sits there to be hit. And then Stan the next match goes out tamely to Roger.

I think Stan played better than Murray did to beat Rafa & I think Rafa wasn't that bad vs Stan, better than he was vs Murray/

Well, day and night is really day and night for Rafa! Notice that he was playing badly both time he played at night. Its playing at night that Rafa couldnt find his range, couldnt control the ball properly.

I rewatched Rafa's 2005 matches on clay, he was hitting with depth and he wasnt standing so far behind the baseline back then. His game has truly regressed now and how he fares now on clay is very much dependent on the court conditions. He has to hope for sunny weather at the FO.

socal1976 wrote:And in the second set Nadal was spraying errors all over the place. Yes Stan hit some huge shots but he was being tee'd up with short floating shots dropping in the middle of the court.

Most of those were forced errors. Nadal had his chances in the 6th and 8th games in the second set. Quite a few shots that Wawrinka hit were at shoulder height.

socal1976 wrote:That top spin is really easy to hit if you can stand inside the baseline and catch the ball after the kick when it loses momentum and just sits there to be hit.

If that was the case, Federer, with his liquid-whip FH would have 4 more RGs. If the ball lands close to the corners with that top spin, it is extremely hard to hit. Wawrinka (and Soderling) were pushing Nadal further back, beyond the 3m mark. It is a tough loss for Nadal, and

“I won so many times there… It’s normal that I could lose. Losing is part of life. I can be there, play bad and lose early, but I’m going to fight to change that and try to fight again to have a good tournament.”

This is very interesting from Nadal. He is said to play every point like a MP (or was it someone else?).

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2015/05/19/Rome-Friday-Nadal-Reaction.aspx

I hope Nadal does well at RG. to him.

I would also consider Djokovic to hold a CYGS if he wins RG. (Silver went looking for odds, I believe).

Bit ironic that the top guys could even be wanting Rafa to do well at the French, otherwise his ranking will dip and they will have to meet him earlier in tournaments.
  Rafa's never had a bad European clay-court year and usually has a massive number of points in the bag even before Wimbledon. Whatever happens at RG, Rafa will have the chance to give Wimbledon and the second half of the season a real go. For a lot of the time he won't have too many points to defend. Still a long way to go with the Nadal saga.

I think Rafas standard was exposed by how easily Roger beat Stan; sure, Fed gives Stan things he really doesn't want to hit, but still..... And I think we'll see later that Federer isn't even playing that well. He's done nothing at all up to now on clay and I'm sure Djokovic will win easily today.

All of which would leave Rafa losing to the guy who got beat up by the guy who lost the final clearly.