Rome Masters 1000 2015

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Djokovic has been drawn in the same quarter as Nishikori and the same half as Murray. Djokovic could get Almagro in his first match as well.

Nadal drawn in the same quarter as Wawrinka and same half as Federer. Seems as though Nadal has a better draw.

It would be nice maybe, despite the limp wristed effort yesterday to give some credit to Stan, who played crushingly well in the QF.

Djokovic could get within 1 of Rogers h2h lead today, theres a heavy danger to Fed now that he may end with a losing h2h against his 2 biggest rivals, hed better serve impeccably today.

BB, I am not sure it will be so easy for Nole today. I think he will win, but I thought Roger looked solid enough yesterday to be at least competitive if he keeps that level up.

Also, as you say, he plays shots that make Stan uncomfortable - I do not know how many errors Stan made off Fed's slice for example - so it is not so easy to say that Fed's win yesterday says much about Rafa. I am sure if it had been Fed vs Rafa yesterday, Rafa would have won.

In any event, good luck to Roger for today.

temporary21 wrote:It would be nice maybe, despite the limp wristed effort yesterday to give some credit to Stan, who played crushingly well in the QF.

Djokovic could get within 1 of Rogers h2h lead today, theres a heavy danger to Fed now that he may end with a losing h2h against his 2 biggest rivals, hed better serve impeccably today.

That's no kind of danger; when you have decided to play on as long as Roger has defeats are likely to all & sundry (especially to a #1 at the peak of his career) and have zero impact on anyone's appreciation.

Fed saying he has a good chance today to win, since Djoko is not Nadal on clay, bit of pressure on Djoko, no one except the bookies have him as RG winner 

These hot shots were hit when Wawrinka may have already mentally resigned himself, but time was being taken away from Wawrinka with slice and such BHs which did not give him any opportunity to fight back.

to both gladiators today.

I believe its also 6-6 in slams to these two? Theyve been playing each other close to ten years now too. Federer, who is number two in the world will not want to go behind in what is one of the closest match ups in recent times, despite how old he is.

They will have played each other 5 more times than Sampras Agassi! Unlike when they first started, Djoko is now the number one and favourite and will be trying to make up for the slow start he had in the race when Fed was the best.

4:3 on clay for Fed I think.

Yeah 4-3 on clay 1-1 on grass and... 15-14 on hard... wow thats close.

This is why players careers should never be evaluated until they're fiinished; Federer is now in that phase where he 'grants' catch-ups to many less celebrated players, and runs up deficits to younger rivals.

Where might Rafa or Novak be against some players if they play on until they enter their 35th year?

temporary21 wrote:Federer, who is number two in the world will not want to go behind in what is one of the closest match ups in recent times

He wants to win the title I am sure but I doubt he cares about the match up numbers.

Lendl vs Connors H2H is 22-13 when Lendl took the last 17 matches.  When people remember Connors, they do not say that he was a fine player but what a shame about his H2H vs Lendl.  If anything people give him credit for being able to hang around until late 30s as well as he did.

No idea, but the turning point was 2011, Fed was 13-6 up in 2010, Novak has overturned this, going 12-7 since 2011.
Federer is the world number two, hes hardly an easy win, nor is he just going trough the motions. If he was outside the top 20 I might buy it but hes higher ranked than when he was notching up wins over a young novak.

Come on Fed, crush the little fake Price of Monaco

summerblues wrote:

temporary21 wrote:Federer, who is number two in the world will not want to go behind in what is one of the closest match ups in recent times

He wants to win the title I am sure but I doubt he cares about the match up numbers.

Lendl vs Connors H2H is 22-13 when Lendl took the last 17 matches.  When people remember Connors, they do not say that he was a fine player but what a shame about his H2H vs Lendl.  If anything people give him credit for being able to hang around until late 30s as well as he did.

Was connors what 32-37 years old through most that run? He wasnt number 2 for most of that either. Beating Roger now is still a perfectly valid win, hes not just being beaten up.

Anyway... its show time.

Break that court in two both of you!

Oh bloody ladies final!!!!

Quite surprised at the Warwinka result. I saw some of the match and Nadal was poor in what I saw, errors from easy positions, although only saw less than half of it. Rafa is in big, big trouble.

Federer - Warwinka saw the whole match. I thought it was quite an interesting match. Warwinka dominated the first 3 games, holding 2 services to love and breaking with aggressive forehands, he was dominating. (Would never have guessed Federer would take something like 12 out of 15 games from there.)

A couple of things happened to get Fed into the match.  Firstly, Fed starting dumping rubbish short balls which Warwinka could not handle. It's an annoying, inelegant tactic in my book, but it worked hugely, Warwinka suffered badly on this. Secondly, Warwinka's first serve % went downhill badly.

And then by the end Federer started to dominate. One game in the second set where he hit three winners including 2 BH winners of service returns was tasty.

He's not playing well enough to beat Djokovic though, for me.

I predict Djokovic to win today against Federer - perhaps evene comfortably like 6-3 6-2 - and also to win the French Open. Rafa will play better at the French Open, but he's not playing well enough for Djokovic. I predict he will lose against Nole.

If I'm wrong about today and Djokovic loses to Federer, I still think he's going to win the French Open. I've noticed form has been important in their rivalry and Djokovic is playing really well right now, and Rafa just doesn't have the game at the moment. The slower court and best of 5 and historical record at FO arguments are not going to be enough this time.

Henman Bill wrote:Firstly, Fed starting dumping rubbish short balls which Warwinka could not handle. It's an annoying, inelegant tactic in my work, but it worked hugely, Warwinka suffered badly on this. Secondly, Warwinka's first serve % went downhill badly.

And then by the end Federer started to dominate. One game in the second set where he hit three winners including 2 BH winners of service returns was tasty.

Is it not the same as saying moonballs are hard to handle for some players, and they are rubbish moon balls? "It's [moon balling] an annoying, inelegant tactic in my work, but it worked hugely, Warwinka suffered badly on this."

temporary21 wrote:Was connors what 32-37 years old through most that run? He wasnt number 2 for most of that either. Beating Roger now is still a perfectly valid win, hes not just being beaten up.

ATP site shows that the last time Connors beat Lendl was when Connors was 32.

Of course it is a valid win if Nole wins, but what I am saying is that what matters is the title on the line not H2H. The way you say it it almost sounds like H2H result is relevant in Fed's case because Fed is #2 and playing well but less relevant in Connors's case because he may not have been as good as Fed at the same age. That would seem to penalize Fed for doing well.

summerblues wrote:

temporary21 wrote:Was connors what 32-37 years old through most that run? He wasnt number 2 for most of that either. Beating Roger now is still a perfectly valid win, hes not just being beaten up.

ATP site shows that the last time Connors beat Lendl was when Connors was 32.

Of course it is a valid win if Nole wins, but what I am saying is that what matters is the title on the line not H2H.  The way you say it it almost sounds like H2H result is relevant in Fed's case because Fed is #2 and playing well but less relevant in Connors's case because he may not have been as good as Fed at the same age.  That would seem to penalize Fed for doing well.

Its not penalising, im just saying I dont buy the idea that Novak is just "cashing in" like Lendl might have been doing when Connors was 36. Im sure we dont agree Fed was cashing in when Novak was a youngster, this Fed is still good enough

Henman Bill wrote:Firstly, Fed starting dumping rubbish short balls which Warwinka could not handle.

Yes, that was so obvious.  I was surprised how poor Wawrinka was at handling Fed's slice.  Fed used to do the same with some success against Nole, though not as much lately (either he does it less or Nole is handling it better).

Dimi also got himself back into his Wimbledon SF against Nole last year the same way.  He was playing very nervously and went down a set and a break and then started playing a lot of slices and that unsettled Nole.

temporary21 wrote:im just saying I dont buy the idea that Novak is just "cashing in"

To some extent he is obviously cashing in, and Fed would have been cashing in when Nole was younger.

Fed and Djoko are out on the court.

summerblues wrote:

temporary21 wrote:im just saying I dont buy the idea that Novak is just "cashing in"

To some extent he is obviously cashing in, and Fed would have been cashing in when Nole was younger.

Then in that case I would say that theyve been given equal opportunity. Ask me in two years then I might well say that further h2h results arent as valid anymore, but for now I say the h2h mini contest is well and truly live. The idea Novaks only close because of Feds age I dont buy yet, Feds not old enough, or paying badly enough.

OH LOOK Rome decided to start the final already! maybe they were getting the licence to use that star wars music.

Gladiator song, come on Fed, Barbarians at the gate!!

Laverfan, moonballs are also an inelegant tactic, especially if used repeatedly. I personally hate those type of short balls slightly more, but maybe a personal preference.

Time for some rope a dope Fed. Use that filthy moonball slice!

temporary21 wrote:Then in that case I would say that theyve been given equal opportunity.

That is not quite clear.  Anyway, the main point is that H2H is not very relevant to start with.  If it were, Andy would be close to Roger.

Fed chosen to receive, which is weird.

Take the first set Fed or you're going home.

Give us that new BH spin

I dont understand, Im not talking about Novak being a better tennis player than Roger, but Roger would HATE to end his career behind both Novak and Nadal. H2h's are a blip on his legacy

Hopefully Roger can win today, though I am not overly optimistic.  I think he may be able to keep it close though.

temporary21 wrote:H2h's are a blip on his legacy

Why?

Ok enough start from Nole.

I think youre reading more than im saying. Theres is one the most up and down and interesting h2h contests ever. Its fascinating, this isnt some ploy to differentiate the two. Two great careers should be appreciated separately anyway.

Novak holds, crowd shows their colours VERY quickly though.

I think H2Hs are important and it does matter to these guys legacy.

Thats it boy, keep those serves going, and some net play.

DJoko starting to do his skid demo.

ok for Roger too.

1-1, Feds needs to keep that serve up though.

Oh they are important, but I mean most seem to agree theyre on the "second tier" of acheivements

Come on Fed, keep those serves going and focus at the net.

Nole was playing a lot of drop shots yesterday too. He used to do it when he was young but I do not remember him playing so many recently.

Bit of a poor match so far, we need a break of serve here to let the nerves rolling a little.

Nole looking very solid.

Fed's serve getting choppy now.

Djoko 100% of first serves won.

Both players playing well, but not quiite vintage. Good quality match, but needs some rallies or something to spark it up. But could be the solid foundation for a very good match?

Break him now Fed, start those short low balls.

Come onnnnnnnnnnnn

bogbrush wrote:This is why players careers should never be evaluated until they're fiinished; Federer is now in that phase where he 'grants' catch-ups to many less celebrated players, and runs up deficits to younger rivals.

Where might Rafa or Novak be against some players if they play on until they enter their 35th year?

I must have missed this phase. Fed's slightly more susceptible to one-off losses nowadays but I can't think of any player who has significantly improved their h2h against him over the last few years, other than Novak. He's had a bit of luck in overturning the Murray h2h whilst Andy was clearly not his normal self and I would expect that h2h to probably go back the other way over the next couple of years. However, other than the rest of the big 4, there is no player who has made any consistent impact on him.

If anything, this phase of his career cements his legacy for me. I don't think he can win another slam - that seems to be where his age does catch up with him. However, in bo3 he's still right there near his very best.

Good game, Djoko holds.

Get those Aces in now Fed, don't screw it up.

Good hold from Nole.